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CAP 9 CAP 9 - Final Product

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Plus, Nov 8, 2009.

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  1. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    I am really looking forward to using Colossoil.

    I really think between the just perfect stat distribution and move pool, we can see TONS of sets being tried.

    All out sweepers, bulky Hariyama tanks, StallPile sets as an alternative to Hippowdon (what up Gyarados), Mixed LO Sweeper, ResTalk. It's going to be fun!

    People might be nervous to make a powerful CAP due to brokenness but we all know powerful CAPs are the most fun to use!
  2. Superkid11

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    That could work as a small first evolution. A direct pre-evo to Colossoil would still need a drill or two, but I can see a first form as a small creature that digs in mud or sand.

    In fact, I think it would be interesting to give Colossoil a rather amphibious life cycle, showing a mostly aquatic creature adapting to dry land. That was suggested before, but here's my idea: First stage is a water/ground that either actually lives in water or digs around in mud near water. Probably both. ... in fact, the first stage could live on beaches. So its first stage burrows in wet sand and swims in the sea. But it could also live around lakes and swamps and such.

    Second stage is Steel/Ground. It's begun its transition to dry land, and to facilitate this its skin becomes metallic, and its drills are starting to form. But for now, it mostly relies on claws.
    Finally, as Colossoil it has fully grown its drills and shed its metallic skin, now fully adapted to dry land. When it needs to drink, it usually digs to an underground source of water. It will only return to the sea when it's lost or when it's time to breed or give birth.
  3. hasbeenkoed

    hasbeenkoed

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    Don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but wouldn't that cycle qualify Colossoil as a Ground/Steel or Water more than anything?

    I think, that second evo should have drills, and the first at least bumps. I'm pro first evo being Ground/Water, but I think as soon as it gets drills, its a dark type. Just a thought.
  4. DKG

    DKG

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    Just noting, will we be adding a pokédex entry(ies)? Pure flavor, but it's still fun, and makes it more believable as a pokemon. Congrats, although I noticed EVERYTHING I voted for (Admiral Korski's stat spread, Mysteriousfellow's art, movepools, etc) didn't make it. I have such bad luck ¬¬
  5. tennisace

    tennisace BAPBAPBAPBAPBAPBAP
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  6. Pink

    Pink

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    Anyways, I'm prettu happy with how Collosoil turned out. Good work with everyone in the process. As always, things got heated, arguments ensued, and that's what we're looking for. It seemed to me that this CAP had a large amount of contributors, especially (as is the norm) in the art threads. However, it also had high attendance in the other areas of the polls, like movepool discussion, and in the biases.

    Can't wait for playtesting, good work everyone. Just keep the enthusiasm up so CAP can continue to get more people involved!
  7. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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    In all honesty, this might be the very worst CAP yet. Sorry Plus, but I just don't think colossoil will be viable in the OU metagame with such a crippled movepool. It's too bad we couldn't have given it ancientpower without obviously breaking it completely ;_;



    heh, i'm just kidding obviously. Plus did a great job as tl, and despite his so-called "controversial" decisions, i wasn't unhappy with any of his choices this cap. and thanks for taking my suggestion and stealthily adding Dig to the movepool after the poll ended. I just hope it's not broken now...

    hi fuzznip
  8. Fuzznip

    Fuzznip Hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo!
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    Excellent work everyone! This was a very fun CAP, and I can't wait to start using it for playtesting. I think Colossoil should stick with one pre-evo, just like Wailord.

    I see that you chose Rebound as the ability name, nice. :)

    Kudos to you Plus!

    Hi Dan.
  9. ReysonTheNoble

    ReysonTheNoble

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    Great work everyone! Everyone put a lot of work into this CAP, and I think it's going to be a great one. Special props to Plus for keeping us all in line.

    Now for my 'awards' of this round of CAP building:

    Favorite thread:Ability Discussion -This thread probably saw the most action, having a whole lot of heated debate.

    Favorite Contributor: Fuzznip -He made Colossoil's movepool, as well as being a big part of all the discussion in the various threads.

    Needs Some Work: Name Submissions -As Plus has said, name submission was pretty hectic

    Most Hard Working: Tie between Plus and the artists -Plus did so much for this CAP, it would take days to list it all. All of the CAP artists were amazing as well, submitting mountains of quality art.

    Overall, it was a blast. I can't wait to try Colossoil out. =)
  10. Maci12

    Maci12

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    Another great CAP. I can't wait to playtest him; the stat spread and the movepool we gave him allow for so many options to stop the secondary! I think that we will see some key things develope:

    - SR leads will stay the same. However I think Toxic Spikes will increase during playtesting; he is susceptible to them, and will likely be on many teams, so even if he removes them from the field, his bulkiness will be killed.

    - I see Leftovers as being heavily used, though I foresee many people going for the Guts sweep with Flame Orb.

    - A defensive combo of Gyarados + Celebi + Colossoil: they cover eachother fiercly and can take out eachother's counters



    - Heavy stall will be less used, and when used, it will have to have a Colossoil counter.
    • Due to the need for a Spin Blocker on stall, I see an increase in Spiritomb due to the lack of weakness to Dark, so it can screw with Colossoil a bit.
    I guess we'll see =)
    =========

    The process of CAP 9 was excellent in my oppinion: it was extremely organized and no one really dominated the process, meaning everyone got their two cents in. The only thing that I think needs work is the Name process, as that was kind of a mess: everyone submitted something =P
  11. Flamewire

    Flamewire

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    Great job everyone, I'm going to start CAP with the Playtesting, hopefully. :toast: Major props to Plus, you made this awesome.
  12. m190049

    m190049

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    I always had an idea in my head for the ability being something like Sand Coat or Sandy Coat.
    I'unno. Sand is malleable, so I can see it shooting back attacks, and our Pokemon is half-burried in sand to start with.
    Assuming it popped out of the ground at the start of a battle (think Cartoons!'s sprite?)...
    I can see a "sandy coat" around it, that disappears after a bit of movement.
    And it also kind of interestingly keeps "coat" in the name. For whatever that's worth.

    Eh. Just a suggestion. Feel free to ignore.
  13. Superkid11

    Superkid11

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    How about this?
    When Colossoil dig underground, a force field goes up around their bodies to greatly reduce friction and to prevent Colossoil from getting too scratched up. This allows it to dig quickly. For Colossoil with Rebound, this force field stays up a bit longer after they surface, repelling status attacks. It also triggers when they're released from their Pokeballs. This doesn't happen with Colossoil with Guts. The force field goes away immediately after they surface, and doesn't trigger when they're sent out.
    Colossoil that know Magic Coat are ones that have learned to use this force field at will, regardless of what ability they have.

    I'm not sure what a good name for this would be, so I used Rebound.
  14. VKCA

    VKCA (Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)

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    Well congrats every one, especially plus, who did a fantastic job setting the new standard for tl.
  15. Wombat Sky Forme

    Wombat Sky Forme

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    Oh boy, I really want to use this guy, although I have virtually nil experience battling with CAP's, this still looks fun!

    Congrats to everyone who worked on this CAP, and to aragornbird for winning the sprite poll.
  16. Sezja

    Sezja

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    I think Plus deserves a round of applause for all of his hard work. We really have a interesting new Pokemon to playtest and I am very happy to have been a part of Colosoil's creation. Although we have yet to playtest him and, therefore, I might be saying this a little early, but I think that CAP 9 has been a sucessful endeavor.

    And, now, my fellow CAP participants, I present to you the props and the slops of CAP 9.

    ---

    PROPS

    Plus' Leadership: As the project leader for the first CAP project that I have partaken in, Plus has set my standards for what I want to see when someone is taking the reins and directing a CAP project. He wasn't afraid to make unpopular decisions and, more importantly, stand by them when he had to. He had a grasp on the CAP community and, should things get out of hand, he was quick to use his authority to reestablish order.

    But, what I respect most in a person is that he didn't take crap from anyone.

    You're the man, Plus, you're the man.

    A Groundbreaking Concept: The standard OU metagame relies heavily upon the usuage of secondary moves such as Stealth Rock and Toxic. Anyone with any knowledge of OU whatsoever ought to realize this. With this in mind, moi came up with a way to revolutionize the CAP metagame by changing it into one that would make battlers think twice before using such moves. Colosoil was built around such a concept, "stop the secondary."

    The changes that Colosoil will force people to make, which includes a decreased use of secondary moves, will make the CAP battling scene drastically different from before. With these drastic changes, it shouldn't be too hard to analyze what Colosoil brings to the table.

    The Participation in the Art-Related Threads: It was in this area that I participated in the most... which is fine, since I plan on being a video game conceptual artist when I grow up anyway.

    Truthfully, there WERE some designs that I would have been unhappy with if they had won. Nevertheless, I was overall pleased with the fact that so many people (including myself, although I never made a final submission) wanted to try to create an interesting design that would accompany our CAP project. Ultimately, after all was said and done, CyzirVisheen's design won, making CAP 9 his consecutive product design victory: a whale, God damn!

    The sprite poll where where I put forth a lot of constructive criticism (and I hope I wasn't mean and demotivating in the process). It was Cyclohm's sprite that drew me into the CAP process in the first place, so I felt that I should make sure that when playtesting for Colosoil is announced, people who are viewing the front page of Smogon should have something pretty to see too. Coincidentally, the same spriter, aragornbird, who had created the awe-inspiring sprite for CAP 8 also emerged victorius (for a third time) in CAP 9 with a lovely sprite.

    A Kick-Ass Final Product: Although I did not actively contribute to the discussion of the competitive aspects of Colosoil's creations, I did read through what was said during these discussions and considered what everyone said carefully before going in and voting at the polls. I voted for what I felt was best for Colosoil and I gave my reasons for it in some (if not most) cases.

    Overall, though, I think that we have a created a monster. And I don't mean that in a bad way. We have created a monster that will "stop the secondary" and even be able to do so much more. Needless to say, I am looking forward to playing with this guy.

    SLOPS

    Dishonesty in the Art Polls: Apparently, this isn't the first CAP project where at least one person had the balls (or, more likely, lack of brains) to cheat during the top three art poll. The design of the final product really is not critical to the viablity of the Pokemon in OU although it does influence the choice of moveset that comes later in the process. It is never worth being a jackass and cheating on the polls.

    Here's what really pissed me off about this; the ARTIST that I SUPPORTED also decided to risk getting banned and went so low as to cheat in the top three.

    The Shitstorm That Was the Name Thread: I don't think anyone could have put what happened into any better terms than the wise words of tennisace: I do believe that it was something along the lines of "people just threw shit at a proverbial wall to see what would stick."

    I am equally as guilty of contributing to the problem as just about everyone else (and I am apparently the only one who was willing to come forth and publicly admit to it). To make matters worse, we didn't even realize what we were doing until Plus told us that we had submitted 185 or so names already. We don't need to choose from so many. As far as I am concerned, twenty DIFFERENT names (four of the six names that Plus ended up selecting for the primary poll ended up being various versions of "Narwhale" anyway) is more than plenty.

    Hopefully, this incident will be discussed during the policy review and measures will be put into place to prevent another shitshorm come CAP 10 (or any other future CAP project for that matter).

    ---

    Overall, I was very pleased to be a part of Colosoil's creation. I hope that I can contribute more to the competitive discussions in future CAP projects, but I do believe that Colosoil has been benefitted by my votes.

    I am looking forward to playtesting with Colosoil (provided Shoddy actually works for once). Even though I said this once, it would be wrong for me not to say it again: you're the man, Plus, you're the man.
  17. Maci12

    Maci12

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    I just noticed something in the GK calcs: they are deadly. While they can't OHKO a fully healthy Colossoil, even with max damage and SR taken into account, if it takes 8% additional damage, it is OHKOd. Under normal circumstances, this would probably not matter; Colossoil is a bulky ground type, and isn't supposed to be taking Grass Knots.

    HOWEVER we have given it an extremely cool niche with the ability Stockpile; with its 133 HP and balanced defenses, it could be one of the best users of the move, better even than Hippowdon. Making it so weak to Grass Knot severely impedes Colossoil's ability to Stockpile successfully. I would suggest making it fit into the 100 BP range, so that Colossoil isn't 2HKOd by most Grass Knot's after Stockpile.
  18. Plus

    Plus 10 in.
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    Stockpile isn't in my mind, and I don't think it matters either. Stockpile is a) not an ability and b) not the top in colossoil's priorities. Stockpile was included to add some flavor. If stockpile was competitive on Colossoil then it wouldn't be in our movepool, it would be banned because nobody opened their mouth during the movepool selections.

    I don't think lowering the BP just for a trivial reason as such alone is the best move. First off, would a Stockpile Colossoil stockpile in front of Celebi, or would it fucking rip a hole in it with Crunch? I think it would do the latter, even if we made it 100 BP. I gave calcs in the OP so you could toy around with it to see where you would get with 100 bp and 120, and see if stockpile is really "niche-worthy". If our main priority really was Stockpile, I'd advocate going for below 100 BP, and my flavor reasoning for that is because "it's made out of helium".

    Defensive Colossoil can suck my left nut, I am totally psyched to go all out offense with this now that Rotom has taken a shit.
  19. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
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    I can already tell Colossoil's going to be a beast. My predictions:
    -The psychology surrounding the addition of Colossoil to the metagame will involve a lot of "I'm so clever, I can still use secondary attacks/play stall/whatever and win," so I don't expect stall to be completely abandoned.
    -Guts-Orb Colossoil will be popular at first; however, its use will decline over time as people realize its lack of longevity and as support sets and Choice/Life Orb sets prove to be more effective.
    -Suicide leads will become far less viable, as players will realize the potential need to set up SR multiple times against Rapid Spin Colossoil. I predict plenty of defensive SRers like Swampert and Hippowdon, even on offensive teams, which brings me to my next prediction.
    -Sandstorm will be everywhere, especially early on, for fear of Moonlight. For this reason, Moonlight will not make it onto many movesets at all.
    -The most successful Colossoils will run both Substitute and 308 Speed. Most common switch-ins for Colossoil threaten to OHKO, and just about all of them will be in the 100+ Speed group. Having a Substitute up will give you a chance to get a hit in or do something else (like Rapid Spin) before being forced out. 308 Speed is a standard benchmark for outrunning Jolly Lucario, who can really run all over Colossoil if it gets in safely.
    -Trick will not fall in usage. Colossoil offers nothing new to the metagame in terms of punishing Trick that Tyranitar, Scizor, and Scarf switch-ins in general can already do. There is little added risk to throwing Scarves around, apart from receiving the rare Flame/Toxic Orb.
  20. Proboscidea

    Proboscidea

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    That Pokemon is frightening...I don't think anyone would catch that, unless it was once a smaller Pokemon that evolved into that monstrosity.
  21. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    Oh one thing I noticed was the lack of Punishment in the movepool.

    I doubt it matters much but, even for flavour reasons, no move seems more fitting to the Pokemon and concept haha.
  22. Fizz

    Fizz

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    Well, for Colossoil it's basically inferior in every way to Crunch.

    Edit: i gess dem flava reasinz is legitt doe
  23. Chomz

    Chomz

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    It'll be interesting to compare the final products of Collosoil and Cyclohm. The former had a very structured, organised development process kept in place by the TL's decisions, while the latter took on a much more free-for-all process as most clearly evidenced by the very open-ended concept itself.
  24. Staraptor Call

    Staraptor Call

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    My predictions on the effects of Colossoil:
    -Since it can OHKO or 2HKO Metagross, Azelf, Jirachi, and Aerodactyl, people will start using Colossoil as an anti-lead with EQ/Crunch/Ice Shard/Taunt. This will decrease the number of suicide leads in the metagame, and make heavy offense less successful.
    -Swampert and Hippowdon will go up. They aren't weak to any of Colossoil's common attacks, and can hit Colossoil for SE damage in return. Even if they are Taunted, they can still threaten it.
    -Scizor will rise even further (yes, it's possible). Colossoil works very well on a Bulky Offense team, and is another Bug-weak Pokemon to threaten with U-turn.

    And Doug, it's time to change your avatar.
  25. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    Nice work everyone!

    I want to give special congratulations to Plus. This CAP placed more power, responsibility, and pressure on the TL than any CAP project in the past. While I did not agree with every single decision Plus made -- I think he performed the role of LEADING TOPICS exactly as I hoped. He was focused and firm, which is exactly what we needed. Plus, thank you for stepping up to the challenge of the job and our expectations. I think you performed admirably.

    Expect to see a few Policy Review threads and process changes over the next few weeks. CAP 9 ran fairly smoothly, but like always, there is room for improvement. I have a few changes already waiting in the wings, but I won't open them for public discussion until after I get Colossoil up and running.

    And to preempt anyone already looking ahead -- Don't ask about the start of CAP 10. We'll get there when we get there, OK?

    I'm looking forward to seeing feedback from playtesting Colossoil! Since a custom ability is involved, it will take me some time to get it working on the server. But, I don't think it will be too hard. I promise to get it implemented ASAP.
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