1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

CAP 9 CAP 9 - Part 8 - Stat Spread Poll 2

Discussion in 'CAP Process Archive' started by Plus, Oct 15, 2009.

?

What should be CAP 9's Stat Spread?

  1. Deck Knight: 133/122/72/71/72/95

    52.3%
  2. Admiral Korski: 103/118/80/60/91/108

    47.7%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Plus

    Plus freedom of the son
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Professor of B101

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,483
    • We will not allow posts in this topic such as "I voted stat spread." Put some substance into your post.

    Typing: Dark/Ground


    Choose which spread you like the most. Here's an overview of each spread.

  2. ReysonTheNoble

    ReysonTheNoble

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Messages:
    83
    Admiral Korski, because I think Speed is much more important than Sp. Attack on this CAP. We've already established that this CAP doesn't need to use special attacks, because there are other ways to stop Skarmory/ Forretress. I originally opted for Sp.Atk in the build bias poll, but Plus and a few others shot me down and proved me wrong (somewhat). Being able to outspeed Celebi and 'Rachi is AMAZING for this CAP. How do we expect to stop Celebi if it outspeeds us and KOs with Leaf Storm? The additional speed allows us to add more EVs into bulk, a welcome boost that this CAP can't enjoy when we're running max speed to outrun basic Defensive Celebi. 108 speed isn't even broken. It gets beaten by 90% of Latias, and most base 115s and all 120s.
  3. Raikaria

    Raikaria

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,315
    Sticking with my vote for Admiral.

    This time, my reasoning was actually the simple fact that I would rather trade hitting power, for versatility. I would rather trade a bit of HP for that too. Admiral's spread is bulky enough to take special and physical hits quite well, while packing a faster punch, which, as stated before, is an important benchmark.

    I don't want CAP9 to have to be forced to run +speed, or be Lucario food.

    I don't want CAP9 to be dead to Celebi right away.

    I don't want CAP9 to be more vunerable to Jirachi's Parahax than it could be. (Thunder Wave Immunity, sure, but if you switch in, Body slam only has 1 chance to Paralyse, not 2 as if you were slower, and then, when not paralysed, you have a 100% chance of moving, not 40)

    Roserade was already established as a valid point.

    Speed > HP and a bit of power.

    That's my final choice.

    At time of post: 2 posts supporting Admiral, but 9-6 to Deck Knight.
  4. Golbez_743

    Golbez_743

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    95
    Went with Admiral Korski.

    Like the reasons stated above, CAP9 needs to be ables to outspeed many important pokemon, Celebi being one of the main reasons. More speed could make or break the game for CAP9, and with Admiral's spread, it'll centainly be outspeeding things Deck Knight's spread wouldn't. Admiral's will still take hits if it is outsped, so we don't need to worry about the lost HP too much. With the speed and those defenses, it can get in an attack if it's faster, survive the hit, and attempt to finish it off. Anyway, it's not like that extra speed is going to make it overpowered, seeing as there are still things that it won't outpace.
  5. Fizz

    Fizz

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    958
    I'm against Admiral's spread because, while you're right that outspeeding Jirachi and Celebi is useful, it will cause CaP9 to be broken in my opinion, and will lead to a much less interesting and informative CaP. People will just max attack and speed and be done, and it will be effective, but also predictable, and it will teach us nothing.
  6. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight October Surprise
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,574
    I'd just like to use this as a moment of good sportsmanship and congratulate Admiral Korski. It was my second favorite on the slate and I liked it largely because it did significantly different things than the other spreads.

    Naturally I'm pegging for my own. I think I've balanced it well enough to be attractive on a variety of teams for the versatility in stat-building it offers, thus why the build features two different spreads. I really wanted to match the ideal of "that pokemon" that fits your team perfectly. Essentially the pokemon's value is centered around where you invest your stats, and investment will depend on your team's needs.

    Good luck Admiral. Knight's salute!
  7. HD

    HD

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,406
    I am voting for Deck's.

    For one, Admiral's has way too low Attack. 118 base isn't doing much shit on your standards (standard Bold Rotom, WishRachi etc...). In fact, the base attack I had, 124, barely 2HKOed those mentioned. So i doubt 118 is doing much. Deck's, albiet being 122 base attack, is still higher than 118.

    My second concern was speed. In my mind, 111 should be the lowest Speed you should go with. Outspeeding Latias and Starmie is very important here, since not all sets will carry Sucker Punch (bit of poll jumping ;-;)/have Sucker Punch. 108 is only used to outspeed base 100s and Infernape. To a note, most base 100s that we would want to get do not run max speed (Jirachi, Celebi), so Deck's 95 base will be enough.

    And while Deck's defenses may seem horrible compared to Admiral's; Deck's chosen HP evens it out.

    Also, Deck's offensive stats are pretty good, and I would go as far to say they are Mamoswine-esque. And you should all know how good MixMamowas-and still is.
  8. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,142
    Thanks Deck! I'm confident that both spreads will be very effective, and I would like to congratulate you on making a really great spread, as well. The choice for voters will essentially come down to more speed vs. more bulk/HP, and I can't wait to see the results and get one step closer to playtesting (the best part, obviously).

    To shamelessly plug my own spread, I think I've created something that, should it want to outrun some key threats (especially their most common sets), like Lucario and Celebi, it can do that without too much investment, allowing it to invest more in bulk and Atk while keeping them from confidently switching in, as the coverage Dark/Ground provides hits many of them for SE damage. I personally believe this CaP will be garnering more damageless switch-ins (especially with Auto-Magic Coat) than most other OU pokemon, so Speed becomes the next most important factor in establishing strategy, especially with so many hard-hitting pokemon that pack SE attacks in the higher tiers.

    Best of luck to both spreads! We can't go wrong at this point.
  9. Tacho

    Tacho

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Messages:
    169
    All the people saying this CaP absolutely without a doubt needs to outrun celebi have gone completely insane. For one thing, how many celebis run max speed while retaining the bulk to counter its normal targets? Not to mention this guy should get sucker punch so even in that case, celebi is going down.
  10. Staraptor Call

    Staraptor Call

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,422
    More important is CAP9's ability to outrun Jirachi and hit it before it flinches CAP9 or sets up Stealth Rock. Max Speed Celebi isn't unheard of, either. I favor more Speed for this and because a +Speed CAP9 could outspeed Latias that don't run max Speed Timid and thus drive Latias to use more offensive sets. Admiral Korski's stat spread would teach us more about the metagame by making CAP9 less like Tyranitar and more of its own thing, because with 108 base Speed, CAP9 would have different niches than Tyranitar and so not be the tankish Tyranitar near-clone that Deck Knight's spread would likely make it.
  11. Oddish On Fire

    Oddish On Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    678
    Are you kidding me? How is this similar to Tyranitar? If the theme is "stopping the second," the poke will need high HP and defenses in order to be able to switch in quite a bit. However, if we give it a more offensive spread, than it will just become a standard CB sweeper, which is not what I believe we're aiming for. This is why I voted for DKs spread. It allows it to outspeed Lucario, but does not leave it in a sweeping position unless the opposition is incredibly slow. Our focus should not be on how to obliterate the entire metagame, but instead on the actual theme. If we make this to fast, it will become nothing but another sweeper.
  12. Mysteriousfellow

    Mysteriousfellow

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    I voted for admiral_korski. I can really see the effort that you put into this stat spread and the foresight of not making both his defenses even. CAP9 is going to be taking more SpA attacks than physical attacks from typing such as grass and ice. the ability to foresee this and bolster his defenses in the right direction shows a good well thought out stat spread. Enough has been said so far about how important speed is in CAP9 in order for him to be able to actually perform his job or at least make the opponent worry. So admiral_korski's has the speed, defenses in the correct places, and enough attack to put a hurting on almost anything. That sounds like a winning combination and thats why I went with admiral_korski.
  13. petrie911

    petrie911

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    859
    I voted for Deck Knight. His spread is more similar to mine, and thus more in-line with what I want to see in this project. Also, I don't like korski's 108 base speed.

    Also, 3rd place finish. A new personal best.
  14. Sc4rfCh0mp

    Sc4rfCh0mp

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    182
    I was looking for the best defensive spreads that could hold up a good offense. Deck Knight's does both of these quite well, so I voted for him.
  15. Elegy

    Elegy

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    310
    I had voted for Korski in the first poll because of the higher speed. The lower attack made it so that IF Guts were to be initialized, then this wouldn't exactly become Heracross 2.
    Now I have been persuaded into believing high speed is a lost cause. Having higher speed than what Deck provided is absolutely meaningless against typical secondary-abusive situations.
    Rotom will always outspeed, and typically Celebi will be outsped even with Deck's spread. However, with the attack, I can assume that IF this gets Guts (which is likely) then it will become a dangerous Toxic/Flame orb bulky sweeper with 122 base attack.
    Repulsively against the concept, but is nonetheless an effective way of removing the secondary abusers.
  16. Mattman324

    Mattman324

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    968
    I didn't get to vote in the origanal thread, but I went with Deck Knight's, simply to try to stop the overpowering of Guts. Also, many people have talked about reasons, and I don't want to sound like a broken record, but here are a few.

    Doesn't have useless extra speed.
    It has less power defensively.
    If this gets SD and Guts, it NEEDS a lower speed so as not to be broken!
  17. Admiral_Stalfos19

    Admiral_Stalfos19

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    Voting for Admiral Korski's for reasons stated in the previous spread. DK's is too slow for the job it needs to be doing (it can't even stay ahead of Agility Empoleon with a +1 Speed move)
  18. familyguyman

    familyguyman

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Why should it have to stay ahead of Agility Empoleon? It's supposed to stop the secondary, not stop a sweep. Besides, using +1 Attack and Sucker Punch against 25% Empoleon means CAP9 could do it anyway! So even though he shouldn't have to, it's possible he can, regardless of speed.
  19. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight October Surprise
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,574
    Because a) you're going to switch into Empoleon and b) You're going to attempt to outspeed a pokemon designed to outspeed all non-scarf pokemon after a single agility?

    Also, c) you can still outspeed +2 Modest Empoleon with Nature and a Choice Scarf (Empoleon tops at 438 if it runs Max Speed, and without nature CAP9 is 433, with nature 475.)

    What "job" does it need to be doing that specifically requires you to beat +2 Spe 244+ Spe EV Empoleon while maintaining a +Atk/Def/SDef nature? Especially given that the standard Agility Empoleon (and Agility + 3 Attacks) only uses 232 Spe EVs, which is insufficient to beat Scarf'd non-natured CAP9? I realize the HP and Def they give the set is probably superfluous, or you can trade SA and Speed, but really.
  20. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,142
    1) There's no such thing as "extra" speed. It simply means you have more options when choosing speed numbers and can invest better elsewhere (like attack or defenses).
    2) I assume you switched to describing my set here, as opposed to Deck's. Yes, my spread has less overall bulk, but it does have good bulk and more special defense potential. My spread also assumes more damage-less switch-ins, which, due to AMC, will most certainly be the case.
    3) Please don't use assumptions of undecided future aspects of CaP to justify a vote for anything at any stage. There is a process for a reason. Votes that follow a "if it gets ______, then I'm choosing _______" template are, by nature, uninformed (unless you really can tell the future) and don't help discussion much at all. Sorry if that sounded harsh.
  21. Admiral_Stalfos19

    Admiral_Stalfos19

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    395
    'Cause it can. Empoleon was meant to be an example more than anything

    Who in their right mind uses Sucker Punch against Empoleon when it can outspeed with a DD/Scarf or something and EQ the bastard?

    I never said a thing about switching into Empoleon. And even if I felt I had to, I wouldn't be stupid enough to waltz into a Surf/GK/whatever (think more strategic switching)

    Fine then, if your spread wins, I'll start running a Timid one with max speed, special attack and a Shuca Berry. It still deals 56.81% - 66.97% to the defensive spread with a Surf and 72.06% - 84.99% with a Hydro Pump (it guarantees a 2HKO either way), while the returning EQ only deals 52.26% - 61.94%
  22. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,298
    Good lord, this is close...

    Voting Admiral Korski. The higher Speed could be seen as an advantage, given the likely interest that CAP9 will be receiving from faster Pokemon. The Attack difference is, in my opinion, quite negligible, and I would have thought 118 a more suitable stat than 122 in any case, as I was opposed to any Attack stat over 120. The defensive stats are in both cases quite high, and I am not factoring them into my decision.
  23. Ritsi_Time

    Ritsi_Time

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    135
    The difference in attack and defenses weren't so much an issue for me, and it boiled down to slightly more useable special attack (DK) or higher speed (AK). I went with higher speed, but whatever wins will be a good spread for the job.
  24. Sir-half

    Sir-half

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    93
    Only 3 people wrote a reason about why they voted Deck Knight. It is sickening to vote for no reason. I wish this was bold voting, Admiral Korski's spread would win.

    As Purpureal Sunshine said, it could be broken, but I do not believe that. Good prediction from a Celebi or Jirachi, could deal some damage. If you did not outspeed celebi, however, you lose to it in one on one combat

    108 speed lets you tie with infernape which isnt that important, but It lets you customize the pokemon more. If you did not, you have to run quite a lot of speed which gives you less customizablity , for the defenses or attack.
  25. Azule

    Azule

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    191
    Im guessing that it's a bunch of noobs who are just mindlessly voting without thinking.

    I went with Admiral Korski, going faster is better than hitting harder, imo.
    Bringing it to 82-82 o: So close.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)