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CAP Lockdown - Prediction team from hell (RMT)

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Deck Knight, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
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    Hello folks. Let me give you the backstory behind this team. I was at work sitting on the John and I came up with a wacky, implausible idea for a team. I built it, and its done surprisingly well. It isn't a standard team by any stretch of the imagination, and unless your prediction skills are solid it can be somewhat difficult to use. Nonetheless I have found it a great pleasure.

    If I had to characterize it, it's a Choice team but it probably leans more towards stall in the general sense that you'll be employing turns scouting your opponent and then switching for maximum advantage. What it tries to do is lock down an opponents options until their chances of victory are nigh hopeless. Please enjoy.

    Lead:

    [​IMG]
    Kitsunoh @ Choice Scarf
    16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SA)
    Ability: Frisk
    ~ ShadowStrike
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Trick
    ~ Taunt

    Kitsunoh provides vital information on my opponents lead. Then I decide which move benefits me more: Stopping an initial Stealth Rock or other setup move with Taunt or Trickscarfing their lead. Outspeeds all Infernape even if it loses it's Scarf (unless it gives it to said Ape). If it is not sacrificed early it can also provide vital mid-game item data.

    Defensive Info
    Immune: Normal, Fighting, Poison
    Resists: Grass, Ice, Bug (4x), Flying, Rock, Psychic, Steel, Dragon
    SR damage: 6%
    Immune to Toxic Spikes
    Immune to Sandstorm

    Deck's Notes:
    Initially I had Ice Punch over Taunt, but I saw so many BP teams that the additional coverage did not justify itself over a dead stop to stat-up moves and Baton Pass itself.

    Scarfer Two:

    [​IMG]
    Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
    252 HP / 76 SA / 180 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    Ability: Serene Grace
    ~ Air Slash
    ~ Aura Sphere
    ~ Trick
    ~ Thunder Wave

    Togekiss provides a second TrickScarfer. I have it set at 397 Speed, just for the heck of outspeeding 396 Scarfers, what few there are. Essentially this is a bulky Scarfkiss.

    Defensive Info:
    Immune: Ghost, Ground
    Resists: Grass, Bug
    Immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes

    Deck's Notes:
    Initially I had Roost over Thunder Wave to provide durability. However, I ran into the problem that I'd end up getting outsped by the Scarves I put on opponents. Thunder Wave helps mitigate that and turns into a lovely option when my opponent is locked into a choiced Ghost or Ground move.

    Scarfer Three:

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
    188 HP / 224 Spe / 96 SA
    Modest Nature (+SA, -Atk)
    Ability: Levitate
    ~ Overheat
    ~ Shadow Ball
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Trick

    My third and final Trickscarfer. Set at 396 Spe it can outrun anything except the sparse Electrode and Ninjask, which is good enough for my purposes. I chose Rotom-H for the additional coverage Overheat gives me.

    Defensive Info:
    Immune: Normal, Fighting, Ground
    Resists: Electric, Flying, Poison, Bug, Steel
    Immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes

    Deck's Notes:
    The only thing I've tweaked around with here is EVs. Now it outspeeds all Adamant Gyarados and Jolly Breloom without it's Scarf, and thus outspeeds all Adamant Gyarados after 1DD.

    SR Support / Protecter One:

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 96 SA / 160 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SA, -Atk)
    Ability: Flash Fire
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Protect
    ~ Fire Blast
    ~ Earth Power

    This beefy Heatran sets up Stealth Rocks. Because of the bulk and this team's MO, I have never run into a match where I could not set SR up, though in some I wish I had been more daring and set it up earlier. This Heatran sits at 230 Speed, Outrunning all Adamant Scizor.

    Defensive Info:
    Immune: Fire, Poison
    Resists: Grass(4x), Ice (4x), Bug(4x), Flying, Psychic, Dragon, Steel(4x), Dark
    Immune to Toxic Spikes
    Immune to Sandstorm

    Deck's Notes:
    EVs are the only real change here too. Initially I had was more SA focused, but realized that the extra bulk served my strategy more effectively. Heatran is no slouch on offense either, with 352 SA and the hope some courteous opponent may hit it with a choiced fire move.

    Wish Support / Protector Two:

    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 SA
    Modest (+SA, -Attack)
    Ability: Water Absorb
    ~ Protect
    ~ Wish
    ~ Surf
    ~ Toxic

    Wish support is what makes this team amazing. Vaporeon's standard set fits the mold very well. While not hosting many resistances, Vaporeon's sheer bulk and healing make it a valuable asset in and of itself. Ironically, it is the most entry hazard prone member of the team. I always go Modest on my Vaporeon. Just like Bold Blissey has gone out of vogue, I prefer boosting Surf's damage to credible levels over a little less damage from physical attacks.

    Defensive Info:
    Immune: Water
    Resists: Fire, Ice, Steel

    Deck's Notes:
    cyberzero actually suggested Vappy to me, I initially had Lapras as my Water Absorber on the theory it was statistically bulkier and could ward off other waters with Thunderbolt. I've not regretted making the switch; Lapras' SR weak was a no go.

    Wall Breaker / Protector Three:

    [​IMG]
    Flygon @ Life Orb
    32 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 220 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SA)
    Ability: Levitate
    ~ Protect
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Dragon Claw
    ~ Roost

    Words cannot describe how awesome Flygon is. It sits on a lofty 320 Spe perch just above Adamant Kitsunoh, has unparalleled coverage with its two STABs, near immunity to hazards, and even has a reliable recovery move. It provides the team some breaking power and can use the free attacks this team attempts to enable to restore its HP for more LO action. The errant Defense point is there because Life Orb works in multiples of 10 and Flygon has 309 HP with 32 EVs.

    Defensive Info:
    Immune: Electric, Ground
    Resists: Fire, Rock, Poison
    SR Damage: 6%
    Immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes
    Immune to Sandstorm

    Deck's Notes:
    I briefly experimented with U-Turn after switching from Lapras to Vaporeon, but it didn't serve me very well. I ran into some Phazers I had Scarved and kept getting blown around with no way to heal.

    Summary:

    This team employs 3 Choice Scarfers with 3 Protect pokemon, and focuses heavily on immunities. The idea is to wear an opponent down and force them into irrelevancy with the core of immunities and resistances provided by Vaporeon, Heatran, and Flygon. The only possible immunity not covered by this team is Psychic immunity. I was unable to find a suitable substitute for any pokemon that would provide such an immunity that could function as well as the current choice. I am open to suggestions on the matter.
  2. Joatmon

    Joatmon

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    As far as that psychic immunity goes, it is sort of silly as no one is using psychic attacks for the time being (that will probably change when the other CAPs become unbanned, however). You have two resists anyways, and Kit hits psychics hard anyways. A Dark type would really mess up the synergy of your team and wouldn't function well with what you are going for.

    I haven't battled this, I don't think, but on paper it looks very good.

    Also on Vap, Bold with 252 HP/140 Def/104 SpAtk gives the same stats with 12 Extra EVs
  3. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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    Having that many Protect users is interesting, and it looks like it would work well with all the Trickers, but I really don't see why you wouldn't use U-turn on Flygon. U-turn is a fantastic move and is probably the main reason why anyone uses Flygon. I think you should put it in over Protect instead of Roost this time and try it again.
  4. cyberzero

    cyberzero
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    I like your team, as you know more than full well. I've split battles with it with some of my very best teams but even that required impeccable prediction from both of our parts, creating stall battles from non-stall teams.

    I'm glad that you listened to the Vaporeon idea, but another gripe I might have is your Heatran. It is definitely very effective, but I might recommend having HP Grass or Toxic over Earth Power. This would be helpful against Blissey and Swampert, but you lose coverage on other Heatran. Of course, this is devastating, but since most Trans are running Choice items, you may be very well off using Protect to figure out what it is going to use and then switch or move accordingly. If you end up running Toxic on it, you can free up the Toxic on Vaporeon, as you don't need two Toxic users, and use the spot for HP Elec which would gain you great coverage.

    Your TrickScarfers are great, but in my opinion, Togekiss is the weakest link. An amazing TrickScarfer to go into that spot would be Jirachi. You can regain the coverage you lose on Fighting by packing Zen Headbutt, as well as gain a great STAB move with some coverage that you're missing in Iron Head. Serene Grace can never be a problem either. Another possibility for this slot may be Gengar, but having two Choicers that are Pursuit-weak and one that is neutral to it will be a problem. Ideally though, Jirachi is faster, has the moves to abuse Serene Grace and can get in more easily because of SR resistance which is optimum for Choice users.
  5. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
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    Impossible. Vap's SA is much higher than it's Defense, which is why I use Modest.

    Current Defense/SA: 219/282

    Your Defense/SA: 210/282

    So in actuality I would lose 36 EVs, not gain 12.

    RE: Umbreon Dan:

    U-Turn doesn't let me learn the opponent's attack, undermining the strategy. U-Turn is useful in most instances, but I don't think it offers me anything particularly useful, especially since I still lose the 10% HP. It does decent damage to Celebi (and pretty much only Celebi), but I'd rather see it Scarfed and block a Thunder Wave instead of U-Turning and seeing my Heatran or Vappy paralyzed.

    Re: cyberzero

    Jirachi has a few problems. One: It gives me a huge fire and ground weakness, two: it adds no immunities. Three: It provides no new coverage. Togekiss' SR weak is fairly annoying, however it does provide a lot of things to counterbalance it. Not least of which being the addition of Flying and Fighting attacks, which have more use than Steel and Psychic generally. If anything, Jirachi would replace Kitsunoh since they have a similar defensive setup.

    I have considered Clefable over Togekiss for its complete immunity to hazards and Encore, but it's dirt slow and functions poorly if it hasn't lost its Scarf. Though I need not neccesarily Trick a Scarf as opposed to say, Burn Orb.

    I haven't had many Swampert problems. A lot of them seem to be SR Leads, and get tricked, pretty much dooming them to forever face Flygon on EQ and Vaporeon on Waterfall. The other ones are CB, which suits my purposes just as well, seeing as the best option is Stone Edge, which Flygon still resists, plus shaky accuracy.

    Toxic might be interesting on Heatran, but Vaporeon lures in a lot of things that don't necessarily like it, but don't want to mess with Heatran or Flygon in particular. Either way the addition of the two status attacks has been quite helpful.
  6. Pombo

    Pombo

    Joined:
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    Intersting. Really.

    I dont know your playstyle, but the team in a good predicter hands is really good.

    Normal(2), Fighting (2), Poison, Grass (Heatran), Fire, Water, Ground (3), Electric.

    8/16 means you are immune to 50% of the attacks. Add 3 trickscarfers and you are done.

    Add solid coverage, no major weaks and bulky pokes (with heal sometimes) and you are more than done.

    My only problem is with that taunt. If you see a BP lead, cant you just Trick in their face and let them switch, since they are locked in the Stat Move? That COULD become a problem ( not saying it would) if you face a status+Bp lead, like smeargle. Ninjask is a problem too. I dont remember, does Sub blocks Trick? If yes, then you can do nothing against ninjask (they protect on your sub and then BP out of the taunt to something that can kill you.). If not, then they sub and you trick, or they pass and you trick the income passer, that are busted forever. This usually means gg for you)

    I dont know how it works in game, but in theory its really good.
  7. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
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    Depends on the BP Lead. My experience has been that if I Trick I sometimes get statused. Unfortunately the cost for Frisk's information is susceptibility to Thunder Wave. Taunt is a temporary fix but it allows me to Trick something more important later. Other leads offer me a choice between Trick, which doesn't stop SR, and Taunt, which does. Kitsunoh needs to switch after Taunt, but stopping that initial SR can be vital, especially as regards Togekiss' free switchin on a predicted EQ.

    Taunt does go through Subs, but if I ever saw a Ninjask Lead I would Taunt immediately hoping it was a SubJask and not a ProtectJask. Worst case scenario is a clean pass of +1 Speed. Not a huge issue with 3 Scarfers.

    Aside from that, the BP teams I've seen seem to always start with a Light Clay Azelf or Uxie (for Screens. Uxie usually packs SR and/or Twave, Azelf SR. In the case of Uxie I just Taunt, that drops pretty much all possible options it might lead with. I've Tricked expectinfg a Screen only to eat a Thunder Wave. Then I have to pray Gliscor never gets an Agility in to Taunt my next trick.
  8. Joatmon

    Joatmon

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    Hm, sorry about the EVs thing, I dunno how I misread 210 as 219 x_x
  9. Skyshroud

    Skyshroud

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    Just a nitpick, but wouldn't the 4 Def EVs on Flygon be better suited being dumped into speed just on the off chance of running into opposing Flygons / other base 100s with a similar layout?
  10. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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    Nah. Few Base 100 Scarfers use a +Speed nature, so the speed he has now is good enough. (I'm not doing any calcs, I'm just assuming that Jolly + 220 outruns Adamant 252. )

    That said, now that Flygon is Scarfed, it's entirely possible to go with an Adamant nature, in which case you would want max speed.
  11. Helios

    Helios

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    Is it just me, or does Honchkrow get the jump on two thirds of your team? :pimp: Yes I know he doesn't appear often and yes he's kinda fragile and hates rocks, but he doesn't care too much about scarf (with his basic set) nor taunt (again, basic set). Whilst he doesn't like scarf or toxic too much, Swampert also dents this team pretty well with ice punch, waterfall and EQ, and is much more common. Skarmory walls two of your pokemon and has a lot of switch opportunities, though again, doesn't like scarf.
  12. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Well-shuffled and flush
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    Haven't seen any Honchkrow on the CAP Server, but I don't imagine I'd have too much trouble. Mainly because Honchkrow's only answer to Rotom-A is Sucker Punch, given Thunderbolt takes it out. BulkyKrow are slower and Choiced Krow's are rendered largely ineffective if I play properly.

    I addressed Swampert a little earlier. Generally speaking I've run into two varieties: The Stealth Rock lead and the Choice Bander. The SR Lead gets Tricked, and subsequently walled. The Bander deals more damage when it gets a hit in, but with Vaporeon absorbing Waterfall, Flygon floating over Earthquake and resisting Stone Edge, and Heatran and Vaporeon taking laughable damage from Ice Punch, i've not run into one I couldn't address.

    Skarmory has given me some trouble since after it gets Scarfed it spams WW, but if it isn't the only pokemon it walls are Kitsunoh and Flygon. Taunt renders it largely useless, Togekiss can try and paraflinchax it after it gets paralyzed, Rotom and Heatran easily KO it, and Vaporeon can deal decent amounts of damage with Surf.

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