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CAP meta viability ranking thread

Discussion in 'CAP Metagame' started by Vryheid, Apr 19, 2014.

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  1. Vryheid

    Vryheid fudge jelly

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    The two most common questions we get from new players to the CAP meta are "How do I make a good CAP team?" and "What CAP Pokemon are the biggest threats?". This post hopes to address the latter, at least to the extent as we've figured out since the beginning of the Gen 6 CAP meta. Hopefully if you're curious about the meta this may inspire you to get started on solid ground rather than with silly strats (this is not the place to be using your Kanto starter team).

    This list was made with input from many knowledgeable CAP players such as Animus, PepsiPlunge, viperfang, and several others, as well as from months of observation and experimentation with what works on the CAP ladder. Feel free to disagree or suggest changes if you want, but realize I'm not just pulling these ranks out of my ass.

    Some FAQ:
    Frequently Asked Questions (open)

    Q: If Tomohawk is so good, why isn't it banned?
    A: 1. CAP Pokemon will not get banned no matter how strong they are, 2. Tomohawk is usually countered by most specially bulky walls, and 3. it's a huge force in making stally/balanced teams viable in the meta. CAP would be a heck of a lot less fun and interesting without it.

    Q: Why is Chansey/Blissey rated so highly?
    A: Special sweepers are a much bigger threat in CAP than in OU with Pokemon like Cyclohm, Quiver Dance Aurumoth, and Tail Glow Syclant running around everywhere. Toxic+Softboiled can win games even against top players.

    Q: Why is Wash-Rotom/Excadrill/(insert Pokemon here) not rated higher?
    A: Many standards in OU are either outclassed in CAP or simply do not have enough utility to justify their use as a “standard” on the majority of teams.

    Q: Why isn't Mamoswine/Diggersby/(insert Pokemon here) listed at all?
    A: Similarly to above, either they're generally considered irrelevant by experienced CAP players or simply do not have enough power or utility to ever justify their use. If you think that an unlisted Pokemon is a threat feel free to argue your point and I will put it on the list.

    Q: What's the point of ever using any of these lower tier CAP-mons?
    A: Some CAP-mons by themselves aren't all that fantastic but are much more effective when combined with certain partners. Kitsunoh is an example of this, as it's a decent scout and revenge killer by itself but becomes a deadly offensive pressure tool when combined with Colossoil as they can both use U-turn and check each others' weaknesses well.

    Q: Can my standard OU team be competitive in the tier?
    A: Probably not, but it is entirely possible to create an effective team in the tier without using any CAP-mons. However, players in CAP tend to gravitate towards using CAP-mons even when OU alternatives exist. After all, you might as well be playing OU if you're not using CAP-mons!

    With all that being said, here is the list:
    PRELIMINARY POSTULATORY ALPHA OMEGA CAP Ranking tier list Gamma.1.6.X.Q.9

    (Subject to change without warning. Individual ranks are in no particular order. FDA and FDIC Approved.)

    S Rank: The Pokemon in this tier are capable of not only performing practically every team role well- from offensive sweeper to defensive tank to utility support- but can easily perform multiple roles at the same time. Specific aspects of these Pokemon make them essential to the balance of the meta and it is not uncommon to see at least one of them in every competitive match.

    [​IMG]
    Tomohawk
    Tomohawk (open)
    A metagame shaping force. The Reflect set is, bar none, the best physical tank in existence. Tons of utility with Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, and Haze, and has two fantastic abilities that are useful in every match. The most reliable Baton Pass user and anti-Baton Pass check in the game. Can beat many of its “counters” with a rock solid Taunt+Toxic set. Very effective offensively on both Sun and Rain teams should you choose to run one. There is very little Tomohawk cannot do well (other than than take on Fairies, unfortunately)


    A Rank: Standard bearers of the CAP tier which can singlehandedly dominate matches, and every competitive team must be prepared to respond to them. These Pokemon often have an offensive or defensive presence which is so overwhelmingly strong that they fit an invaluable niche in the meta and require little to no team support to perform well.

    A+ Rank

    [​IMG]
    Cawmodore
    Cawmodore (open)
    A devastatingly powerful sweeper that can OHKO most of the metagame after a Belly Drum boost and is very hard to check thanks to its high speed and priority. Knock Off can cripple predicted switchins and it can continually heal itself with Drain Punch. All competitive teams need to have at least one Pokemon who can deal with Cawmodore reliably.

    [​IMG] Aurumoth
    Aurumoth (open)
    Illusion is no joke, and neither is this Pokemon's fantastic stats and enormous versatility. Aurumoth is one of the main reasons Colossoil is so popular, as checking it with a hard hitting priority move is often easier than trying to prevent it from setting up. The Tail Glow set is particularly notable as a killer mixed wallbreaker, hitting extremely hard on the special side while obliterating any special walls with a +3 Psyshock.

    [​IMG] Colossoil
    Colossoil (open)
    Two useful immunities, hard hitting priority, and the ability to bounce back hazards make this a standard on many CAP teams. Earthquake+Knock Off is an excellent STAB attack combination which is even stronger in Gen 6 due to the nerfing of Steel types. One of the best Rapid Spinners in existence due to its ability to OHKO practically any Ghost type.

    [​IMG] Cyclohm
    Cyclohm (open)
    One of the few guaranteed Cawmodore counters and the best CAP answer to Talonflame, but also a great physical wall in general. A specially defensive version is also viable and can take on Tomohawk, Mega Charizard Y, and other common specially offensive threats fairly reliably. It has nice utility as a Whirlwind user with Slack Off/Heal Bell and a whole bunch of special attack moves. Basically a reworking of Hippowdon with better speed and typing, and can run surprise Specs/Scarf sets as well.

    [​IMG] Chansey
    [​IMG] Blissey

    A Rank

    [​IMG]
    Revenankh
    Revenankh (open)
    A fantastic mixed tank that can Bulk Up on practically anything and crush fast, offensive teams with its hard hitting Drain Punch/Shadow Sneak combo. The introduction of Cawmodore made it much more risky to set up with, and its old foe Tomohawk still is present on many teams. Using Revenankh properly requires some support to remove its counters, but once this happens it can easily roll through opponents.

    [​IMG] Necturna
    Necturna (open)
    Possibly the most versatile Pokemon in the meta, this Pokemon's access to Sketch and other traits allow it to act both as a specially defensive utility tank and a deadly sweeper. Necturna is at it's most dangerous when it catches an opponent by surprise, and with so many effective sets available it can almost always do just that. Unfortunately, weaknesses to four forms of priority make it difficult to sweep with, and Tomohawk can usually wall every set.

    [​IMG] Talonflame
    [​IMG] Kyurem-B
    [​IMG] Pinsir (Mega)

    A- Rank

    [​IMG] Syclant
    Syclant (open)
    The original CAPmon still has the speed and power to make those Tail Glow sets really hurt. STAB Ice is great for plowing through Tomohawk and Cyclohm, and Mountaineer is a fantastic ability (basically granting it immunity to Stealth Rocks) which makes it far easier to set up with than every other offensive Ice type in the meta. Can be very hard to stop if it ever sets up, but unfortunately is easily checked by Pokemon such as Stratagem which outspeed it can can hit hard on its many common weaknesses.

    [​IMG] Arghonaut
    Arghonaut (open)
    The best Unaware user, which makes it amazingly useful on many defensive teams but one of the most difficult CAP Pokemon to use correctly. Perhaps its most valuable role is that of an “emergency” Roar user, able to force out any sweeper no matter how many boosts it has. Arghonaut can be specced to handle even super effective special or physical attackers surprisingly well, and has good defensive typing to wall popular CAP Pokemon such as Syclant, Colossoil and Revenankh.

    [​IMG] Mollux
    Mollux (open)
    An alternative to Heatran which trades access to Earth Power and Roar with the ability to wall many Pokemon which Heatran could not, such as Azumarill, Mega Mawile, Keldeo and Infernape. Recover though is what sets it a level above Heatran, however, as it can be incredibly frustrating for stall teams to take down due to its immunity to poison/burns and great bulk. Calm Mind sets can potentially sweep opposing teams lacking a reliable ground type move.

    [​IMG] Stratagem
    Stratagem (open)
    A good check to “flyspam” and many offensive threats present in both in CAP and OU. Can serve as filler for many teams looking for a decent all around revenge killer. One of the best checks to Mega Pinsir, which gives many CAP teams a rough time. Somewhat weak to priority, but what it does check makes it a useful asset on balanced teams.

    [​IMG] Krilowatt
    Krilowatt (open)
    Has enough bulk to be a useful specially defensive pivot, while serving as a reliable counter to Tomohawk and many other common offensive threats in the CAP meta. Unfortunately, it lacks a healing move and simply doesn't have the offensive power to deal with specially bulky Pokemon like Revenankh and Chansey, who can either set up on it or slowly wear down its massive HP stat.

    [​IMG] Aegislash
    [​IMG] Landorus-I
    [​IMG] Thundurus-I
    [​IMG] Charizard (Mega-Y)
    [​IMG] Charizard (Mega-X)

    B Rank: Pokemon in this tier tend to be manageable even by standard OU teams, but have still have useful traits or niches which aren't easily filled by other Pokemon. They tend to have a much more specialized role in CAP rather than the multipurpose juggernauts in the higher tiers.

    B+ Rank

    [​IMG] Kitsunoh
    Kitsunoh (open)
    A good scout and Trick abuser, this Pokemon's solid typing and resistances make it an excellent choice for many teams looking for U-turn pressure. Ice+Thunder Punch allows it to easily revenge kill many of the dragons and Pokemon like Gyarados, allowing it to act as a good revenge killer. It's main limitation is that it can't do much to many of the bulky physical walls in the tier, who can switch into it and set up with impunity.

    [​IMG] Heatran
    [​IMG] Venusaur (Mega)
    [​IMG] Medicham (Mega)
    [​IMG] Scizor (Mega)
    [​IMG] Skarmory
    [​IMG] Azumarill
    [​IMG] Mawile (Mega)

    B Rank

    [​IMG] Malaconda:
    Malaconda (open)
    Good against certain CAP Pokemon like Colossoil and Necturna, and has the moves and stat pool to serve as a very versatile special wall. Great at spreading Glare throughout an opposing team while setting up for a late game sweep. Most standard OU special attackers simply cannot break through Harvest and that massive Sp Def stat. Unfortunately, it has a crippling 4x Bug weakness and a low speed that makes it easy to revenge kill.

    [​IMG] Pyroak
    Pyroak (open)
    Rock Head plus a huge Defense stat means that Pyroak can often take down multiple Pokemon before being knocked out itself. Can run very annoying Leech Seed sets to stall opposing teams to death with proper support. Its slow speed is its major downfall, making it an easy target for special attackers like the ever-present Tomohawk to gradually whittle down.

    [​IMG] Landorus-T
    [​IMG] Garchomp / Garchomp (Mega)
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn
    [​IMG] Reuniclus
    [​IMG] Sylveon
    [​IMG] Clefable

    B- Rank

    [​IMG] Togekiss
    [​IMG] Dragonite
    [​IMG] Excadrill
    [​IMG] Gardevoir (Mega)
    [​IMG] Latios
    [​IMG] Latias
    [​IMG] Keldeo
    [​IMG] Cresselia
    [​IMG] Gliscor
    [​IMG] Gyarados (Mega)
    [​IMG] Rotom-W
    [​IMG] Quagsire


    C Rank: Pokemon in this tier are fundamentally flawed in crucial ways which prevents them from being a major metagame threat. However, they are still functional Pokemon which can serve useful defensive or offensive roles if supported properly.
    C+ Rank
    [​IMG] Voodoom
    Voodoom (open)
    With proper prediction, Voodoom can defensively solidify teams through its useful immunities to Electric and Psychic moves and 4x resistance to Knock Off. However, it's enormously exploitable Fairy weakness is not doing it any favors. It's decently fast and run powerful mixed attacking sets, but generally tends to get outclassed offensively by Greninja.

    [​IMG] Cloyster
    [​IMG] Gothitelle
    [​IMG] Sableye
    [​IMG] Gengar
    [​IMG] Terrakion
    [​IMG] Zapdos
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet
    [​IMG] Politoed
    [​IMG] Greninja
    [​IMG] Infernape

    C Rank
    [​IMG]
    Fidgit
    Fidgit (open)
    Is fast and has access to practically every utility move in existence, giving it some killer utility in CAP. As it has no reliable recovery move and a questionably useful ground/poison typing, it isn't going to be doing much of anything offensively to many of the popular bulky attackers in the meta. That being said, if you absolutely need hazards up and want to do so while having access to Encore, this could be a great Pokemon for you.

    [​IMG] Alakazam
    [​IMG] Tyranitar (Mega)
    [​IMG] Ninetales
    [​IMG] Hippowdon
    [​IMG] Mandibuzz
    [​IMG] Ditto
    [​IMG] Bisharp
    [​IMG] Scolipede
    [​IMG] Espeon
    [​IMG] Smeargle

    E Rank: Cheap imitations of the great Lord Tomohawk, these false prophets should be banished from all competitive CAP teams.

    [​IMG] Hawlucha
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  2. Dragonblaze052

    Dragonblaze052

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    Why is it that Quagsire is listed as B- when its role is matched by Arghonaut? Wouldn't that relegate it to C rather than B?

    In the Aurumoth and Voodoom descriptions, you spelled "mixed" with an extra x.
  3. The Pizza Man

    The Pizza Man

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    I would probably rank Mega Gardevoir higher, its Hyper Voice is really helpful, espically since all caps where created at a time with no Fairy types. It also has a preety easy time dealing with Tomohawk. I would like to nominnate it for B+ or A-

    Other than that I see no problem with this list
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  4. Integer Mova

    Integer Mova

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    I see absoultely no problem with this list whatsoever, as all the CAPs seem useful in one way or another, with the lowest ranked CAP being Voodoom. I never knew Cyclohm was such a beast, though!
  5. wh0sy0urpapa

    wh0sy0urpapa

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    I would like to nominate Kitsunoh for A or A- rank.
    It can demolish Fairies with a STAB Meteor Mash or Iron Head, and can easily tank their Moonblasts and Hyper Voices despite its relative fraility. If you need a solid answer to Fairies, the bane of many, many CAP pokemon, look no further. It's almost the sole reason I even run Kitsunoh on my team.
    Moreover, Defog was merely a flavor move on it back in Gen 4, but it is now a decent Defogger, as it resists SR and is immune to TS.

    On a side note, Tomohawk can at least Taunt Clefable before it starts to stall, and Hurricane still does a decent amount to Sylveon before it sets off that Hyper Voice.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  6. wh0sy0urpapa

    wh0sy0urpapa

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    Cyclohm completely eats Cawmodore alive, hence why it's a beast.
  7. Rotosect

    Rotosect Banned deucer.

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    I would like to nominate Mamoswine for A rank, since its Ice/Ground double STAB is every bit as valuable in CAP as it is in OU, perhaps even more given how so many CAP mons are weak to either (or both!) of them.
    Also, its Focus Sash+Endeavor+Ice Shard set is actually more effective in CAP since we have more reliable ways to remove hazards compared to OU, and given that so many CAPs are very hard to stop from setting up, it can work as an emergency stop against them.
  8. Gerard

    Gerard

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    I think Rev should be moved down, while he's got prefect coverage, the BP of his moves it's just too low that you HAVE to set up in order to be able to sweep with it, and he's got a nice 4MSS since he has to decide between Ice Punch and Recovery (since without it it's walled by a lot more mons but with it's easier to wear down over the match). Look at the rating itself, a lot of pokemon in over B can take a hit (or 2,3,4) and retaliate. Cawmodore can set up Belly Drum on it if it's using Intimidate, Aurumoth can tank a Shadow Sneak at +1 and KO with Psychic/Zen Headbutt (with a bit prior damage), Talonflame and MegaPinsir just murder him, Arghonaut doesn't care about bulk up and outdamages with Waterfall (and it's faster so there's also flinch), Clefable's even worst, Aegislash can take a Shadow Sneak in Shield form and then hit back, MegaCharizard X can either wall him with a physically defensive set or set up on him, MegaVenusaur just walls him and leech him to death. Stuff that should be beaten by it can just take one hit and KO back since he's slow and Shadow Sneak is weak (MegaMedicham, MegaGardevoir, Kitsunoh, Latios, Reuniclus, the list goes on and on...)
  9. NGC-2024

    NGC-2024

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    doesn't hurt that its a great stop to Talonflame! (and mega-pinsir to a lesser extent, +2 EQ does like 75-90%)
  10. FlarZ

    FlarZ

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    I think Mega-Cham should be in the b+ tier, seeing as it's really good against a multitude of pokemon frequently used in the CAP tier.

    Other than that great rankings Vry!
  11. The Pizza Man

    The Pizza Man

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    Now that I think about it, I think Tomohawk should be moved down to A+. Its not bad in any way, but my god is it overated. Cawmodore eats this thing for breakfest. And depending on the set a Gardevoir with Trace and Taunt and max speed can completely nutter this thing. It also struggles aganist fairy types and pokemon like Talonflame.

    I also think Cawmodore should be moved up to S. Other than the rare Quagsire, this thing has no counters. It can safely switch into any physical attacker (If it has intimidate) or electric type (If it has Volt Absorb). Its Acrobatics does insane amounts of damage, capable of even 2HKOing Cyclhom. It doesn't need to worry about Arghonaut because it is already SE aganist it.
  12. Fuzzie

    Fuzzie

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    I disagree with you there. Cawmodore is already as high as it could possibly be. While it has impressive sweeping potential, and is not stopped by many Pokemon, it still has to go through the trouble of actually setting up. It is more easily counterable than you think, as it can be shut down before it gets to set up by almost any special attacker and some notable physical attackers (Neutral STAB and up). It does not even need to die to be rendered useless, it just needs to lose half of its already low health and then it can no longer set up. Any Ghost type can prevent it from healing, and most physical walls that do not have a weakness to it are able to survive a hit, especially those that resist Acrobatics like Cyclohm or Aggron-M. Most decent teams will have a Pokemon that is dedicated to being a counter to Cawmodore if one is present, and even those that do not can be saved from being eaten alive by playing smart. The only reason that Cawmodore would have to be bumped up to S is if it had the perfect team mate, such as Screens/Memento Tomohawk/Lati@s, which would make it virtually indestructible.

    TL;DR: Cawmodore is easily made useless. Bumping it up would not be right.
    Dragonblaze052 likes this.
  13. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
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    Well, as I'm sure is no surprise, I have a lot of opinions on this, and I definitely disagree with a lot of the initial rankings. I really feel that a lot of the problems with the rankings come from having a much too CAP-centric view of the metagame, with this leading to many CAP pokemon being overrated, and many non-CAP mons being highly underrated. So, since I will have a lot to say, I'm going to split this into a few sections. It will take a while to cover all the changes I think should be made though, especially for non-CAP pokemon, so I'm only going to look at the CAPs in this first post.

    CAP Pokemon that should go up in rank

    [​IMG]Necturna A => S : When it comes to versitility, no Pokemon in the game can match Necturna. It can be a wall, a tank, a sweeper, a supporter, and half a million other things. Most notable in the transition to the current generation is its ability to set Sticky Web. Sticky Web is an incredibly powerful move, and Necturna can set it with ease. It is very hard to OHKO it with a bulky build, and the only Pokemon that can bounce back the Web (Espeon, Xatu and Colossoil) all fear one of its STABs. In the hands of a good player, it is impossible to stop it from setting Sticky Web up. It can be removed, sure, but it can't be prevented. The fact that it blocks Rapid Spin only helps it in that role. But talking so much about one set misses the real point of Necturna. The fact is, it can do just about anything. With Recover it is a wonderful wall that can spread status with ease. With Shell Smash it can sweep teams, especially if the opponent was prepared for a support set. And lets not forget that it has great natural power, and can have any coverage moves it wants. With a Choice Band almost any Pokemon can be taken on with the right move. And this is not even taking into account other things it can do. I've seen Geomancy sets get surprise sweeps, and I myself have even run things like Parting Shot with great success. When you look over at the OU viability rankings, one reason often mention with regard to the Mega Charizard being up in S rank is the fact that you can't know what will counter it right away. Necturna is just like that. In fact, it does that even better, as a single turn or move doesn't even necessarily give it away. It may not be quite as devastating as the Mega Charizard, depending on the set, but when you can do so much, so effectively, and not even let your opponent know how to stop you, you are deserving of the best rank we have.

    CAP Pokemon that should go down in rank

    [​IMG]Cawmodore A+ => B/B+ : Well, from what I have seen of people discussing the CAP meta, I know this will probably be the most contentious thing I will suggest here, but frankly, in my experience, I think there is little that could convince me otherwise here. Simply put, in my experience, Cawmodore is not that threatening to any halfway decent CAP team. Don't get me wrong, the thing can sweep, but it cannot sweep on its own, it is hard to get set up, assuming a quality opponent, and it is very limited in the scope of what it can do. If it wants to be threatening, it needs Belly Drum. If it wants to sweep, it needs a Flying STAB. If it wants to not be easily revenged, it needs Bullet Punch. This leaves room for one move. Knock Off lets it beat some things that would handle it otherwise, but without Drain Punch, it suddenly fails to scare Pokemon like Heatran or Skarmory. It is highly predictable, and not too hard to play around. Even so, once set up it is a menace. But, getting set up is not easy at all. Look at the starting S and A ranks right now. How many can Caw set up on reliably? Unboosted Rev and Unboosted Mega Pinsir. That's about it. Extending it to B honestly doesn't help much. Most Pokemon can do enough to prevent set up or permanently cripple it with status or something. Now, sure, you can run it alongside screens or a Memento mon or something, and turn a lot of things into setup bait, but doing so requires support of the kind that makes a ton of Pokemon viable, and looking at rank definitions, this is much more suitable for B rank than A.

    [​IMG]Cyclohm A+ => A- : This is not so much a hit on Cyclohm as it is simply a statement that I don't think it is as useful as presented here, because it is a defensive check most notable for beating things I think should go down in ranking. It is good, and can do multiple things, but it is not one of the best mons in the tier, imo.

    [​IMG]Revenankh A => B/B+ : Revenankh is a good Pokemon, but it is honestly not that amazing on its own, simply because pretty much ever top tier threat can easily manage it one on one. Tomohawk is its worst nightmare. Cawmodore and Aurumoth blast right through it. So do Talonflame, Mega Pinsir and Aegislash. Argonaut walls it, the Mega Charizard break it, and Necturna can scare it in a number of ways. While it can certainly be dangerous in its own right, and can come in and set up on a number of special attackers, it simply has far too many checks and counters among the best Pokemon to be ranked that high.

    [​IMG] Arghonaut A- => B/B+ : Probably the best way to describe Argho is as a bulkier Quagsire, and filling that role is definitely something of value in the CAP metagame. However, with that said, while the extra bulk is nice, the lack of a way to induce burn makes is less scary to physical attackers. What's more, its typing is actually pretty crippling for its role, as the most dangerous set up sweepers in the tier are all Flying, Psychic, Grass or Electric. It can certainly perform, especially as part of a core with guys like Cyclohm, but in the job of an Unaware mon, it fails to really be anything special when compared to Quaggy and Clefable, and that keeps it out of the A rankings imo.

    [​IMG] Mollux A- => B+ : While Mollux used to definitely be an A level threat last gen, this one it really fails to standout to that same level. It is an OK wall/tank, but lacks the resistances that make Heatran great at the job. Its too slow to really sweep, and its crippling ground weakness makes it hard to set up Calm Minds. It can definitely do a lot of good stuff, and is a very useful Pokemon overall, but to say it has "offensive or defensive presence which is so overwhelmingly strong that they fit an invaluable niche in the meta and require little to no team support to perform well" would be quite false, imo. It is a much more niche Pokemon, great for beating water types that lack ground moves, but not a ton beyond that. And despite the fact that it gets recovery, is typically outclassed by Heatran outside that niche.

    [​IMG] Pyroak B => C- : Pyroak is bad. Plain and simple. C- might even be to kind. Its somewhat bulky, sure, but it has no speed, no power, a mediocre typing, and can't really do anything with what it has. About the only thing it can do well is SubSeed. However, with flying type attacks everywhere, it has a hard time keeping a sub up. It is forced out too easily, and is weak to rocks, making it hard to switch back in. The only think that even gets it a niche role at all is the fact that Fire hits Grass types super effectively, so they can't wall its seeding. But there are not that many grass types to begin with, and one of the most viable, Mega Venusaur, doesn't even care about fire. Frankly, it only has one tiny niche, and I'd argue that freaking Jumpluff does the STAB SE on Grass Sub Seeder role better. The only reason I didn't go lower than C- is that it was the lowest serious level already on the list. Depending on rank definition, D might be more appropriate.

    [​IMG] Fidgit B- => C : There is not a lot wrong with Fidgit. There is just not much reason to ever use it. Its got OK bulk and good speed, but can't do a lot with it. The only real useful weather like moves are set up better by other Pokemon, and while it makes an OK hazard setter, there are just so many other Pokemon that can do that and more. And while it can spin, it fails to really do anything to any of the common Ghosts in the tier. While it has a little unpredictability in what it can do, it simply can't do anything well enough to consider it a seriously good choice for most teams. The only thing keeping it really viable, imo, is that Persistent Trick Room is a god send to full TR teams. Its not a very good playstyle to begin with, but its a niche that Fidgit can fit that is usable, and nothing else can do.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  14. Galladium

    Galladium Banned deucer.

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    I thought you could use CAP Pokemon in normal OU?
  15. Magcargo 2

    Magcargo 2
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    No, you cannot.
  16. FlarZ

    FlarZ

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    38
    Another nominee I have is sylveon to B tier, it's strong hyper voice can spell trouble for a lot of cap pokemon, and it's incredibly bulky. It doesn't belong in the same rank as mega gardevoir at all.
  17. finnaggann

    finnaggann

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    Messages:
    45
    I like this list and it is quite helpful but

    Fidgit should be a C. It just dies. Sure, it is fast, and it has a good move pool, but whenever I come across it I OHKO it with my voodoom after it does it's setup and if the team relies upon it then they fall apart. If the team does not rely upon it then they waste a spot. furthermore if you want something to do what it does get a setup/wall.

    Voodoom should be a B- or B. It may not seem great but paired with many pokemon weak to electric(I like Arghonaut) it can become a huge threat and can be used to confuse foes if paired with Cawmodore and the aforementioned by letting your opponent feel safe with electric attacks after it dies only to switch into commodore setup easy and sweep.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  18. Fuzzie

    Fuzzie

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
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    124
    I feel alone on Fidgit staying as B-. I would love to see it rise up to B, as it is one of the greatest hazard layers and phasers in the game. I always send him out first with a Focus Sash, and I am guaranteed at least 1 layer of spikes. If they do not hit hard enough, I get 3 up. When all the Spikes are up, do I use damaging attacks? No, I use Whirlwind, hurt them with my spikes. If they set up while I lay my Spikes (Cawmodore used Belly Drum, Aurumoth used Quiver Dance), I can stop with the spikes at 1 layer and just negate their buff with a whirlwind. Additionally, if I am faster than whoever set up, such as a Bulk Up Revenankh or Stealth Rock Aggron, I can just Encore them, which lasts long enough for me to finish setting my spikes and then whirlwind them away. This almost always works, and is only foiled by Cloyster (He can hit 5 times, negating the Sash) and Rapid Spinners.

    Also, I use Vital Spirit. The one time I switched to Persistent, I was Spored instantly. It is not fun (and I do not think the ability works, either.)
  19. The Pizza Man

    The Pizza Man

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
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    419
    Yeah most of the custom abillities dont work. I know rebound doesn't, though I'm not sure about Mountaineer
  20. Dragonblaze052

    Dragonblaze052

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
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    192
    Rebound works with prediction, Mountaineer negates a double weakness to SE and Persistent usually does work.
  21. Gerard

    Gerard

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
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    4,331
    He means they don't work properly in the simulator
  22. FlarZ

    FlarZ

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Messages:
    38
    Yeah, they really don't, I may only redirect stuff like rocks 1/16 times, and even doing it that many times may still get rebound working 0 times.
  23. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Aug 27, 2008
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    As far as I'm aware, Rebound only works on the moves that Magic Coat did in gen 4. So not Stealth Rock.
  24. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

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    I believe it was implemented as basically a one turn magic coat on the switch, so it followed the changes in Magic Coat between gens. Whether or not that is what it should have done was never really talked about or anything, but that's how it is.
  25. Dragonblaze052

    Dragonblaze052

    Joined:
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    I have seen Rebound work consistently against Sticky Web. :/
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