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CAP Metagame Discussion

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Birkal, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,799
    Introduction

    Hiya! As many of you are aware, we're finally getting back into the swing of things with the CAP metagame within the fifth generation. This metagame is currently available on Pokemon Showdown! for anyone to play and enjoy. In order to register on Pokemon Showdown!, all you need to do is win a battle. The CAP metagame may eventually have some significance on Smogon in terms of having a council and potentially looking into CAP revisions. However, at the time of this post, the CAP metagame is simply something we can do on the side as a CAP community for fun! So please, enjoy your battles.

    The purpose of this thread is to provide a place for discussion on the CAP metagame. Feel free to post any thoughts that you have here! This is not a place to propose new CAP ideas or post revisions for old CAPs. Rather, this is an excellent place to share Pokemon sets, team ideas, and overall comments on the metagame.

    Furthermore, this thread is to serve as a sort of "competitive encyclopedia" for CAP. Therefore, I've placed a bunch of resources below that can be useful to anyone interested in joining the CAP metagame. If you find any other excellent resources or guides, please post them or send them to me via PM or VM! I'll be sure to add them to the list. I'll be continually updating the competitive encyclopedia with resources that we re-discover as a community.

    If you would like to have some further discussion of the CAP metagame, feel free to join us on SynIRC's #cap channel (here is a guide on how to do so). We'd be glad to hear any of your thoughts there that are in relation to this topic! At the end of the day, this is the CAP community's metagame. I want us to have a fun metagame where we learn and grow together as a group. Thanks for reading; now get out there and battle!



    [​IMG]

    Syclant
    Fast, powerful, mixed sweeper with thin defenses

    [​IMG]

    Revenankh
    Dangerous Bulk Up abuser with unresisted offensive STAB

    [​IMG]

    Pyroak
    Sturdy SubSeeding wall with good attacking prowess

    [​IMG]

    Fidgit
    Fast, defensive Pokemon with a variety of utility moves
    • Final Product
    • Old Analysis
    • Old Movepool
      Concept (open)
      Name: Utility-Support Pokemon
      By aldaron and Magmortified

      Description: There is a serious lack of Gravity, Rapid Spin, Wish, non Dark weak Trick Room, OU viable Heal Bell / Aromatherapy, Encore, Memento, Non Dark weak Perish Song, Psycho Shift, Safeguard, Magic Coat, Me First, Snatch, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Tailwind and Haze Pokemon in our lovely Metagame. I don't know what type, what stat distribution or even what kind of Pokemon would effectively use all those, but I want to build a utility Pokemon for the useful yet less used utility moves. If I had to narrow the field a bit, I would emphasize Tailwind, Gravity, non Dark weak Trick Room, Rapid Spin, Wish and Encore. The normal utility moves like Reflect and Light Screen go without saying.


    [​IMG]

    Stratagem
    Super-fast special attacker with mono-Rock typing
    • Final Product
    • Old Analysis
    • Old Movepool
      Concept (open)
      Name: Break the Mold
      By lationheat

      Description: An OU viable pokemon that goes completely against the stereotypes of its typing.

      Yea so obviously there is some stereotypes associated with each of the types and i have noticed that this is something that has often had a negative effect on past CAP projects.

      You've heard it all before when people were discussing Pyroak, a lot of people insisted it had to be fast and have huge special attack just because it was a fire type. Or when Fidgit's movepool was chosen Stealth Rock had to be on just because every other ground type has it.

      I know there are some pokemon that already exist, that tend to have traits that you wouldn't expect given their typing; Cradily, Altaria and Ampharos come to mind. Despite this it seems the vast majority of these type of pokemon sit firmly in the UU tier, maybe this is the exact reason why, but i think this is an issue we can further discuss and something we can actually test in battle.

      So the challenge with this concept is to take a typing and go completely against the stereotypes often associated with it and make a pokemon that is viable in OU.


    [​IMG]

    Arghonaut
    Physical tank that stops stat-boosters in their tracks
    • Final Product
    • Old Analysis
    • Old Movepool
      Concept (open)
      Name: Decentralizer
      By Hyra

      Description: A Pokemon can check a majority of the current top 5 Pokemon.

      This is basically what Gormenghast wanted to do with Camerupt, but broader. I feel that specifically mentioning Scizor, Zapdos, and Heatran makes the concept too restrictive, but ideally this would be able to take at least two of these Pokemon on (Blissey does this for certain varients of Zapdos and Heatran). Unfortunately, there are very few type combos that do this, which is why I don't want to mention any specific Pokemon in the description.


    [​IMG]

    Kitsunoh
    Fast physical attacker designed to be the ultimate scout
    • Final Product
    • Old Analysis
    • Old Movepool
      Concept (open)
      Name: Ultimate Scout
      By beej

      Description: A Pokemon that is very capable of forcing the opponent to reveal vital information about their team members and their moves using various techniques.

      Scouting is an increasingly important role in the Platinum metagame. Moves like U-Turn, Substitute and Protect are highly valued for their ability to give us such vital information as what kind of responses do your opponents have to your sweepers, what hidden moves do they have, and so forth. Getting this information early on allows you to prepare yourself for any threats your opponent has waiting in the wings and come up with a game plan. This Pokemon would probably need resistances to common attacking types, particularly ones backed up by Choice items, as those allow for the best opportunity to U-Turn and reveal a counter. It wouldn't have to have amazing offenses, but enough to scare the opponent into making some revealing switches.


    [​IMG]

    Cyclohm
    Unusual dragon with physical defense and special offense
    • Final Product
    • Old Analysis
    • Old Movepool
      Concept (open)
      Name: Neglected Ability
      By Elevator Music

      Description: This pokemon will have an ability [or two] that is currently undervalued (but possibly very helpful) in the metagame but isn't used because the other pokemon with this ability don't have the stats or movepool to make it work.

      Justification: This is probably one of the best ways to go about learning about the metagame. Seeing why certain abilities don't see much play and what we can do to make them more used is an easy way to learn about the metagame. There is also the possibility that this pokemon will have a beneficial effect on the metagame and/or will create a new niche in the metagame (or take the niche of an old pokemon that didn't see much play).

      Explanation: There are plenty of abilities that we can base a concept around that don't see much play. I'm thinking things like Shield Dust (we all know how much I want a good pokemon to abuse this!), Shed Skin (though Rev has this covered imo), Simple, hell even things such as Solar Power or Forewarn. It would be silly of me to try and list out all the abilities we could use for this.

      I like this concept because it doesn't restrict typing or stats or whatever. There are so many possible directions this could go in we aren't narrowing too much down, but at the same time I feel it provides just enough direction to keep the pokemon on track.

    [​IMG]

    Colossoil
    Physical threat to many users of non-damaging moves
    • Final Product
    • Old Analysis
    • Old Movepool
      Concept (open)
      Name: Stop the Secondary
      By moi

      Description: A Pokémon that through means of ability, moves, and typing, can stop a variety of the non damaging affect of moves and moves of non damaging origin.

      Justification: While the immediate threat of damaging moves is large and present, the affect of moves such as status, Trick, Leech Seed, Taunt, Stealth Rock, Spikes have arguably had a greater affect to the metagame than anything has ever had, something that this would greatly look in to.

      Explanation: While not always being a "specific" strategy, the use of these moves is always a commonplace sight in any metagame. Depending on which moves this Pokémon can tackle, it can perform a role on any team, and be used to check a variety of threats. This Pokémon could use anything, from typing (Steel and Poison are immune to Toxic, Fire-types are immune to Will-o-Wisp), to abilities (Insomnia avoids sleep, Sticky Hold stops Trick), to moves (Magic Coat can stop things like Leech Seed and Status). While being able to remove a good number of moves from their purpose, it manages to remain open enough as to what you'd like to do and should be stressed that it should not try and stop all types of non damaging moves.

    [​IMG]

    Krilowatt
    Situational counter for a variety of common threats
    • Final Product
    • Old Analysis
    • Old Movepool
      Concept (open)
      Name: Utility Counter
      By reachzero

      General Description: This Pokemon is capable of being customized to counter virtually any specific Pokemon, but is incapable of countering a large number of Pokemon at the same time.

      Justification: It is not unusual for people to say that "versatility is broken" from an offensive standpoint; less attention is given to versatile defensive Pokemon such as Zapdos or Hariyama. This Pokemon would allow us to study the impact of having a Pokemon that is capable of dealing with such varied threats as Salamence, Lucario, and Gengar....but not all at once.

      Explanation: I envision this concept as looking like a more extreme version of Porygon2 or Hariyama; it can be custom designed to handle virtually any threat given the correct selection of EVs, moves, etc. However, in choosing to deal with certain threats almost flawlessly, it leaves itself open to other threats. Multitype would obviously make this concept's job much easier, though I doubt it is absolutely necessary to making it work.

    [​IMG]

    Voodoom
    Potent special attacker intended for use in an offensive core
    • Final Product
    • Old Analysis
    • Old Movepool
      Concept (open)
      Name: Perfect Mate
      By DougJustDoug

      General Description: Pick a good-but-not-great OU pokemon, and design the perfect teammate for it, similar to the way Celebi & Heatran, or Blissey & Skarmory complement each other so well on competitive teams.

      Justification: This would allow us to explore in detail how synergy between two pokemon can be achieved, because currently there are only a few perfect teammates in OU. And depending on the base pokemon we choose to give a "perfect mate", we can open a new niche in the metagame based around the efficient pairing.
      The niche we create will be inherently tied to an existing pokemon in the metagame, which should provide a natural limitation to prevent this concept from being broken or "too different" from standard OU.

      Explanation: This concept is very similar to the "Partner in Crime" concept proposed back in CAP 7. But, with all the changes in the CAP process, and stagnation in the metagame, I think this is a good time for the CAP community to focus on the competitive factors of synergy between pokemon.

      I envision we will pick a base pokemon during the Concept Assessment. We will make a case to the TL for a good-but-not-great OU pokemon and the characteristics of that pokemon's "perfect mate". The Topic Leader would then select their favorite. We could even rename the concept to "<Pokemon>'s Perfect Mate" from that point forward.

      It think we could have some fantastic discussions every step of the way, dissecting the base pokemon in exacting detail to figure out the best way to make an ideal teammate. If we choose the right base pokemon, we might even breathe some new life into a sentimental favorite, that isn't quite up to top-OU standards on its own.

    [​IMG]

    Tomohawk
    Momentum builder gifted with team supporting abilities
    • Final Product
    • Old Analysis
      Concept (open)
      Name: Momentum
      By Korski

      General Description: This will be a Pokemon that can be utilized to gain or regain momentum for a player's team at any point in the match as its primary function.

      Justification: Gen. 5 is a very powerful metagame. As such, most battles are won by the smarter strategist who can best maneuver around his/her opponent's onslaught to gain even a single turn's advantage, potentially clinching them the match. This process of gaining and regaining momentum is most often the defining element that makes a winner and a loser out of a single Pokemon battle. Any top player in this metagame should agree that momentum is the most crucial element in any given match; however, "momentum" itself is a rather vaguely defined term that is never really explored in concrete terms. Is it keeping opposing teams on the defensive? Forcing switches? Good prediction? Spamming U-turn? These have all been approaches to achieving momentum, but they are also player-side and largely synonymous with "strategy," as opposed to Pokemon-side and regarding a Pokemon's role on the team. Certainly there are threats like Ferrothorn/Gliscor (defensive) and Scizor/Latios/Voltlos, etc., etc. (offensive) that can achieve momentum as we know it, but there is no current niche for a "momentum Pokemon" because the concept has been purely delegated to players and not to Pokemon.

      Explanation: This concept should teach us just as much about the metagame during its creation process than through actual playtesting, especially in the Concept Assessment, where the community should be looking to the metagame as a whole to analyze how successful teams and players gain, regain, and maintain momentum. Since momentum has largely been defined at the discretion of the battling community and takes many forms, so too could this CAP. Scizor, Blissey, Skarmory, Magnezone, Celebi, Jirachi (Celebi and Jirachi are great examples, due to their versatility), Heatran, Balloon Heatran, etc. can all achieve momentum according to their strengths, yet all are very different. Now, I'm not about to suggest that this CAP should be able to check everything in the metagame; that's not the goal here. What it should be able to do, though, is pose a reasonable threat in some manner to a good chunk of the metagame, enough to make opponents think twice about staying in or at least think very hard about what to switch into this Pokemon. A Pokemon with almost no offensive presence can do this just as well as a blunt instrument kind of Poke.

    [​IMG]

    Necturna
    Unpredictable bulky threat with access to Sketch
    • Final Product
      Concept (open)
      Name: Sketch Artist
      By Korski

      Description: A Pokemon that learns Sketch, once, and everything that goes along with that.

      Justification: I'd like us to spend some time thinking about the Pokemon and what it can teach us from how it changes the metagame, rather than the other way around where we choose an effect on the metagame and then develop a Pokemon around it.
      In terms of uniqueness, I think that few existing Pokemon can match DPP Smeargle, an otherwise laughably worthless Pokemon trolling OU with access to every trick in the book (or at least 4 of them) but also affecting the metagame greatly by becoming a top threat in the lead metagame. This Pokemon will borrow some of that uniqueness by learning the move Sketch and thus having access to ONE surprise/strategic/gutshot bonus move to supplement its pre-existing movepool. Being otherwise competently built (read: usable stats), this Poke could be a top threat or specialist for reasons we can't even predict yet.

      Explanation: The key here is that we have a lot of freedom to construct a unique Pokemon while staying within the confines of the concept. Typing, stats, abilities, and even most of the movepool are completely fair game so long as the Poke learns Sketch only once along the way and that we keep that in mind during previous steps. Now, this doesn't mean the CAP process will be directionless; Rising Dusk is pretty well organized and good at keeping discussions focused, and the concept itself has firm grounding in Smeargle's precedent. What's really being studied with this concept is movepool diversity and effectiveness, so it should have the most effect on the movepool process, where movepool creators will have to carefully balance their Sketchmon's actual movepool with the possibility of adding any one other move to the list. In terms of the metagame, there is no doubt in my mind that throwing a wildcard like this into the mix will strongly affect the metagame.


    [​IMG]

    The Smog

    Threads
  2. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    Yay, a general discussion thread!

    Okay, there are two guys I really want to start talking about, and they are Tomohawk and Revenankh.

    Tomohawk is one of the best Pokemon around right now, and a well played Tomohawk can shut down teams especially with Toxic Spikes support. Think of the Toxic Staller set as Gen 5 Stallrein except with infinite Speed, a better typing, and more Special Attack to hurt counters with. Tomohawk is also the God of Rain in Gen V CAP because of its bulk, Prankster, and HURRICANE. It's much like Dragonite in this regard in that it's a powerful special attacker in Rain but focuses on its bulk and typing to be a real threat. For some reason I don't see a lot of Tomohawk on the ladder, but I'm not sure why. It counters Colossoil, Pyroak, Revenankh, and Arghonaut (IIRC), not to mention a lot of the non-CAP threats.

    Revenankh is the main focus of this post. I've heard he was a "noob pokemon" or "terrible in the metagame" but all I see when I look at him is Conkeldurr on crack. Except with Revenankh it's best to use his magnificent Special walling capabilities to their full advantage and going 252/252 Careful. This yields 384 HP and 350 Special Defense. Eat your heart out, Ferrothorn. Now, add in a Bulk Up boost and the mummy has:

    384 HP, 369 Attack, 324 Defense, and 350 Special Defense. That's as much HP as Defensive Politoed, more Attack than Scarf Terrakion, about as much Defense as Bold Celebi, and more Special Defense than Ferrothorn. All at once.

    Now, a lot of set-up sweepers have trouble keeping their HP up. Not Revenankh. It gets Rest with Shed Skin as a fallback but the real beauty is Drain Punch. Every time you hit something, you're usually getting back 20, maybe 30% of your health. It doesn't just take powerful Special hits, it can tank super-effective STAB hits at full health, then retaliate with a strong-ass Drain Punch and finish the opponent off with a sexy Shadow Sneak. It's a priority attacker and a bulkier Conkeldurr at once. Just switch this guy on something that it walls (try Special Attackers like Starmie and Stratagem), force the foe out, Bulk Up, and keep Drain Punching until you drop (which is usually never).

    Other than that, I would like to hear some commentary on some of the overlooked CAPs, namely Fidgit, Voodoom, and Pyroak. I can see Voodoom being eschewed for his low-powered attacks and general inferiority complex compared to other Fighting-types, but I don't get why Fidgit doesn't see a little more love. If anyone uses him, please explain.
  3. Imanalt

    Imanalt WHY BUNNELBY DO HAVE FUR?
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
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    I feel like scizor is very underutilised in the metagame as it is now (as in, ive seen none in my limited playing). It is one of the few things that can beat Tail Glow syclant and Shell Smash Necturna, as well as also being generally good for volt/turn cores, no differently from in ou. Because of the lack of use of scizor, I've been seeing shell smash necturna have much more success in the cap meta than it had in the playtest, so it is also definitely worth using until scizor usage comes up
  4. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
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    Ok, cool. General Discussion. Lets get to it.

    So anyways, as I have said over in the flying type discussion, and as DetroitLolcat has said above, Tomohawk is the god of rain, and one of the best Pokemon in the game right now. However, I will go even further and say that it is not just one of the best, but it is in fact the single most dangerous Pokemon in the game right now, and how one fares against it may be a determining factor as to whether a Pokemon is good in this metagame. As Imanalt pointed out, Scizor is not nearly as common in CAP as in OU, and I think Tomohawk is one of the main reasons why. To put it simply, Tomohawk shuts down Scizor. The best Scizor can do to physically bulky Tomo is around 36% max with CB Bullet Punch, which is never going to beat a Tomo with Roost, and Tomo 2HKOs in return with Hurricane (3HKO if it only has Aura Sphere). As we have seen in OU, Pokemon who are utterly shut down by a number one threat do not fare incredibly well no matter how good they otherwise are. It just so happens that this time Scizor is being shut down rather than being the one shutting down others.

    Now, I believe that this is the exact same reason why people don't think Revenankh is as good as DetroitLolcat suggests. Obviously, as shown in Lolcat's post, Rev can be an absolute monster. Great typing, awesome stats, and the ability to run an epic Bulk Up set would seem to make for a ridiculous Pokemon. But, I really feel that the main thing holding it back is, you guessed it, Tomohawk. Even with Max investment, bulky Tomo set has a chance to 2HKO (small chance, but it is possible), and offensive Tomo will get the KO easily. And, in return, Rev is doing absolutely nothing. Even if it runs Shadow Punch over Sneak it is not breaking bulky Tomo unless it somehow gets to +6. As with Scizor, I feel that the simple fact that it gets so utterly shut down by the tiers number one threat is the main reason people find Rev so underwhelming.

    However, I do not just want to talk about things that Tomohawk utterly destroys, but about a strategy that can break right through Tomo, and could make many other Pokemon more viable: Hail. Simply put, Hail is really awesome in CAP, and there are 2 main reasons why. Syclant and Krilowatt. One of the reasons that Hail suffers so much in the OU meta are lack of powerful abusers and lots of common weaknesses. However, in CAP, these two Pokemon really help overcome that. Stealth Rocks are generally a problem for teams with high quantities of ice, but with Mountaineer and Magic Guard respectively, these Pokemon can switch in unharmed. Both of these Pokemon are also notable for being able to put a stop to most Tomohawk. Syclant is just too powerful with its Blizzards and just blows right through any attempts to stall it, and Kril has nice power of its own, and Magic Guard to beat out Toxic stallers. The huge power of Blizz spam and the nice type variety that these two bring is a huge boon to hail teams, and makes them quite viable in the current metagame. I honestly thing that Hail may just be more powerful a strategy than anything other than the godly Rain teams, and even there Hail matches up pretty well. I would encourage everyone to go out and try hail. You wont be disappointed.
  5. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

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    While Scizor is still good, Stratagem walks all over TG Syclant too. It also have the advantage of a SpD boost in sand, which can lead to a pretty specially bulky boosting CM set. Recently, I've been running the following set:

    [​IMG]
    Stratagem @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    - Calm Mind
    - Paleo Wave
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast

    However, I've been really split on the moves I should be running. Stratagem losing Technician Giga Drain in Gen 5 isn't very cool, but I'm wondering if it would still be worth running on this set. What about you? What kind of sets do you use for Stratagem? It have a few pretty versatile roles, so I'm curious to see what's out there.
  6. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    So Tomohawk is a huge threat in the current CAP meta. How do you guys deal with it? The best way to deal with Tomohawk, in my opinion, is to simply have the least amount of Pokemon weak to it as possible. Tomohawk will most likely be around for most of the match. However, if your team does well against Tomohawk, the Tomohawk user will be less worried about keeping Tomohawk alive. Not only that, but Tomohawk will have less chances to set-up a Substitute on you. Having a weather starter of your own to ruin Hurricane's accuracy is also an effective way of crippling Tomohawk; a 70% accuracy Hurricane is much less reliable than a 100% accuracy Hurricane, obviously.

    There are also some very good checks out there for Tomohawk. Most Psychic-, Flying-, and Electric-types do well against it. Zapdos, Krilowatt, and Jirachi in particular do really against Tomohawk.

    Zapdos resists both of Tomohawk's STABS and has a super effective Thunderbolt to hit Tomohawk with. It also has Roost, so it can heal back all the health lost from beating Tomohawk.

    Krilowatt is immune to Tomohawk's Toxic, so Tomohawk can't try to stall it with Toxic, and it also resists Tomohawk's strongest STAB: Hurricane. It still gets hit pretty hard with Aura Sphere, but it's still a good check.

    Jirachi with Psychic does very well against Tomohawk. Tomohawk can't do much damage to it with Aura Sphere, even if Jirachi is running no HP or Special Defense EV's, and it can't even poison Jirachi. Meanwhile Jirachi can easily 2HKO Tomohawk with Psychic and recover back lost health later.

    Those are only some of the better checks I've found; there are a lot of good checks out there. Kitsunoh, Skarmory, Togekiss, Cyclohm, and Reuniclus are a few other checks out there. That's definitely not all, though!

    One Pokemon that I've enjoyed using lately is Choice Specs Syclant.

    [​IMG]
    Syclant @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Mountaineer
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Ice Beam / Blizzard
    - Bug Buzz
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Syclant can't switch-in on much, thanks to its bad defenses, but at least Mountaineer helps with that. Once it gets in, it'll do a lot of damage to anything that tries to switch-in. Its main advantage over Tail Glow Syclant is that it doesn't need to set-up to be very powerful. It also gets a free moveslot for something such as Hidden Power Fire, which hits those pesky Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Forretess hard. Blizzard can be used if you're using Syclant in hail; with Blizzard, Syclant is even more hard to switch-in to.

    It's a good thing Syclant has the Mountaineer ability, otherwise I wouldn't consider using this set at all.

    @Birkal, yes, offensive CM Stratagem is great! It's very fast and powerful; often you don't even need to set-up a CM for it to sweep. Setting-up a CM is very helpful if you're attempting to sweep, though. Anyways, with its great Special Attack, Speed, and coverage, Stratagem is terrifying threat. I hope to see it used more.

    Also, has anyone else had success with MixMence in CAP yet? It can easily beat many of the common CAP Pokemon and can easily Roost off the damage it takes. It can even run Earthquake without worrying about Blissey/Chansey because for some reason they're not very common in CAP... or at least that's from my experience. Does anyone know why this is? Perhaps it's because they can't really do much to a lot of the CAP Pokemon, including a lot of the special attackers.

    Anyways, CAP is really fun so far! More people should play it! =)
    if only that glitch with Necturna was fixed...
  7. Jac

    Jac If you need to learn how to talk to a lady, ask your mum
    is a Battle Server Moderator

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    Well Im always on PS!, I was in a League where I got to use they lovely Cyclohm on an all Ice/Electric team. He's susprisingly bulky. The set I use:

    Cycholm @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shield Dust
    EVs: 120 SpAtk/252 Sdef/ 136 Spe
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Dragon Pulse
    ~Heal Bell/Blizzard
    ~Slack Off

    This set is amazing in Hail, he supports my Hail team by bulking through most of the OU Teams that challenge me. people who have never seen him before are stunned that he is pretty physically bulky, and that he has recovery. Sometimes I run Heal Bell just in case my Lanturn is down for the count.
  8. DarkShiftry

    DarkShiftry

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    Messages:
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    I only want to say that rain in CAP metagame is really really broken, because it aids three of the mos prominent pokemon in CAP: Tomohawk, Cyclohm and Necturna.

    Tomohawk @Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SpAtk/4 SpDef/252 Spe
    Timid/Modest
    -Hurricane
    -Aura Sphere
    -Substitute
    -Roost
    Rain boosts Hurricane's accuracy so you can abuse it with no regrets, not only that, but the Fire type move's reduction in power allows Tomohawk to wall Infernape, Heatran, some dragons (If you sub on Draco Meteor as they wont be able to attack you with Fire Blast for example, and Tomohawk resists Focus Blast and stuff), and many others it didn't wall before, with maximun invest into special attack it turns not only into a defensive pivot, but into an offensive threat.

    Cyclohm @Life Orb
    Trait: Shield Dust
    Evs:4Def/252SpAtk/252Spe
    Timid
    -Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
    -Thunder
    -Hydro Pump
    -Slack Off
    Big threat, big big big threat to today's metagame, there is very little that wants to take 100% accuracy Thunder or Rain boosted Hydro Pump to the face, and some of those who would like it are decimated by Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse, Shield Dust makes it a perfect switch in to bulky waters and Specially Defensive Jirachi, and its bulk allows it to take water and electric type moves and just Slack them Off, really powerfull indeed and you can even run Fire Blast to 2HKO Ferrothorn in rain.

    Necturna
    -Any set you want!
    Add to the fact that Necturna is already very unpredictable and hard to take down due to her bulk the Rain to weaken fire type assaults, according to sets it could even beat Heatran one on one! It's like taking a weakness from her.

    As you can see rain is really overpowered with CAP as it is now, I used a Rain team with bulky spinning Necturna, Tomohawk and Cyclohm and it got me really high in the ladder, so try rain in CAP it really works!
  9. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    Yeah, I love Cyclohm. It has such a wonderful typing, great stats, and a few cool moves such as Slack Off. My favorite Cyclohm set so far is specially defensive. It has wonderful resistances on the special side, including 3 of the most common types seen in rain: Water, Flying, and Electric. Shield Dust is also very useful for switching into annoying moves such as Scald.

    I'm thinking about using a Charge Beam set. It'd work kind of like Charge Beam Porygon in LC. It's very bulky, it can recover health with Recover, and it is weak at the beginning but slowly gets stronger. What set do you think would be best for Charge Beam Cyclohm? I'm thinking about using Charge Beam / Dragon Pulse / Thunderbolt / Slack Off. The problem with that set is it's very open to status. Maybe I should use Heal Bell? There is also some other good attacking options such as Fire Blast which would help break past Steel-types faster and allows you to kill Ferrothorn. There isn't much room for either of these options, though. Does anyone here have experience with Charge Beam Cyclohm?
  10. Jac

    Jac If you need to learn how to talk to a lady, ask your mum
    is a Battle Server Moderator

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    Zorg uses Charge Beam Porygon in LC, it's very hard to stop once it sets up. It's also quite annoying when it Traces something it can use against you like Sand Rush/Sand Veil.

    Cycholm might need some Speed to be able to do that though.

    Cycholm @ Expert Belt/Leftovers
    Trait: Shield Dust
    ~Charge Beam
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Dragon Pulse/Ice Beam
    ~Slack Off/Ice Beam
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SATK/252 SPE
    Nature: Timid/Modest

    Im hoping to slash in Ice Beam to nail a few side pokes, but his STABS are excellent enough to take resistors. OO would include Flamethrower for Ferro who could come into Charge Beam and wall.

    Anything I miss?
  11. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    I think that going the bulky route would be better; it allows you to set-up Charge Beam's a lot easier. It also goes very well with Cyclohm's good resistances, Slack Off, and good bulk.

    I'm not too sure about Ice Beam either. It really doesn't hit much other than Gliscor and Landorus. Most Dragon-types take enough damage from Dragon Pulse anyways.

    For the EV's, I could probably get away with just dumping all of the EV's into HP and Defense. It wouldn't hit that hard, and it'd be pretty vulnerable to special attacks, but it still has the potential to be a really good late-game sweeper.

    Now that I think about it, it wouldn't be too hard to stop this set. Landorus, Gliscor, Dragonite, Celebi, Colossoil, Fidgit, etc. At least it does well against rain once Ferrothorn is down! It's still worth a shot, though. I'm going to test out Charge Beam Cyclohm tomorrow, probably.
  12. Dukewarrior13

    Dukewarrior13

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    Hey everyone!
    This seems like the best place to ask this question, how do you use CAP pokemon? I have been trying to use them on pokemon showdown but it wont allow me too. I have been following the create-a-pokemon-project for a long time and I am getting all excited just thinking about it. If you tell me what battle format to use or were to use these ingenious pokemon, that would be fantastic. I am sorry if I sound like a noob or if I posted this question in the wrong place. Thx for your time!

    Also on another note, I saw the battle format CAP Aurumoth Playtest and I tried to use Colossoil and Voodoom (For they are an extremely important piece in my mono-dark team that I am putting together. It says that Colossoil and Voodoom are G4CAP and therefore banned. Can someone please shed some light for me? That would be fantastic!
  13. uwnim

    uwnim

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    The playtest is OU+Aurumoth. Previous CAPs are banned and the CAP ladder is unavailable during the playtest. Once the playtest is finished, the regular CAP ladder will return and you can use all the CAPs again.
  14. Dukewarrior13

    Dukewarrior13

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    Thank you I owe ya one :)
  15. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor
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    Aurumoth in the CAP metagame is certainly going to shake things up. We have 7 CAPs, including Aurumoth itself, almost half of the total number of CAPs we've made so far, susceptible to Aurumoth's STABs alone. This list notably includes the incredibly powerful Revenankh and Tomohawk, and to a lesser degree Arghonaut and Mollux. Moth's access to No Guard Blizzard/Thunder/Focus Blast also threatens a lot of the Dragons (Latios's), Politoed's, and Heatrans that have historically done very well in the CAP metagame. Beating up on Rain, or more importantly, Tomohawk, may be Aurumoth's signature niche in the new meta, but what I've been experimenting with rather successfully is using it as a lure for the aforementioned CAPs, especially Tomohawk and Arghonaut, who can each cause bulky offensive teams a lot of problems.

    I've invented a new Aurumoth set for the CAP metagame with QD / Bug Buzz / Psychic / Will-o-Wisp because I can sustain Illusions between turns when disguised as Kitsunoh or Necturna, throwing burns around quite effectively in the early game and then cleaning up with a QD sweep later on. I also like to run it in the lead position disguised as Terrakion, since I'm running a Tyranitar sand team, which 9 times out of 10 means the opponent will lead with Tomohawk and stay in on Terrakion, since it can't really do anything back. Except then I launch the PSYCHIC attack for the near-KO, basically leaving it to be taken out by SR next time around or just 2HKO'd on the spot! Yes, this has worked more than 3 separate times, today, and yes Tomohawk always uses Aura Sphere, which does about nothing to Aurumoth.

    The all-star of my team though has been the classic Sub/WoW/Shadowstrike/Superpower Kitsunoh, who has always been a complete monster, but now has the privilege of being the only Poke in the game capable of walling Aurumoth's Bug/Psychic/Fighting coverage.

    Those are just a few preliminary thoughts atm. I am currently running Sand and have won 10/12 matches as I post this, so maybe Rain doesn't have to be so metagame-defining with Aurumoth around? Anyway, I encourage everyone to post as many good battle replays and metagame comments and sets and all of that here, since it's going to be quite a while before the next CAP begins.
  16. fryfrey

    fryfrey

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    I'm taking a few approches with Aurumoth sets designed to mimic a particular Pokemon to explore what makes an Illusion believable. I'm currently experimenting with the quite underrated Dragon Dance in a set consisting of DD / Zen Headbutt / X-Scissor (For reliabiity over Megahorn) / Close Combat all the while imitating Salamence or Dragonite. I've been able to steal a few good wins with this set with people thinking that it's the dragon and firing off an Ice Beam, which doesn't do a whole lot to Aurumoth due to the fact that I invested in HP EVs. By that time I will have at least one DD up, and around 76-64% HP, and I can safely predict a switch and either attack with that foresight in mind, or fire off another DD. However, some people are not that oblivious and see through the Illusion, and it does however have MAJOR issues with Kit, especially WoW variants but I have noticed that supposedly showcasing a common set on the illusion makes it more believable.
  17. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

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    Just so you guys know, Pokemon Showdown! has implemented doubles. Jas, DHR, and I have been playing around with some CAP doubles matches, and they are a riot. I put up a discussion thread in Other Metagames, so feel free to chat about it there if you'd like.

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