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CAP Updates: Revenankh Discussion (Complete)

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by KrazyCake, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. Wenderz

    Wenderz

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    Some people are complaining about Poison Heal since SubHeal Rev would be OP, but I wonder why it would be this more threatening than Gliscor. We discussed about it on PS!, I believe that if SubToxic Gliscor isn't seen anymore (or at least way less often than in BW), it's because he has trouble against the like of Sableye-Mega, Celesteela and Skarmory, and so does SubToxic Revenankh, who has an even worst match-up against Tapu Fini, Toxapex, Mollux and Magearna (unless you have a room for Power Whip or EQ, which doesn't ensure your Victory against these threats either). Furthermore, Rev is slower than Gliscor and thus Taunt is less useful on him, but without this, he becomes a Set Up Bait for some Mons like Scizor-M and Zygarde. I don't think that the typing is a solid argument either and that having a quadruple weakness on Ice and a normal one Water is still better than being weak to Fairy, Psychic and Flying in the current Metagame.

    Among the threats I mentionned, most of them have way more problem against a SubBU Rev than a SubToxicTaunt one. Therefore I don't think that Poison Heal is a big distract which prevents you to use Bulk Up Rev. I like Triage very much too though.
  2. KrazyCake

    KrazyCake

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    With Revenankhs most recent ability poll we gave it the gift of priority healing with the ability Triage, so with that out of the way, we'll be moving on to Moveset discussions! Revenankh has one major problem it has terrible STAB moves especially by ways of its ghost moves, Rev also suffers from its lack useful coverage, this and many other things are what we plan on fixing. This discussion will operate the same way as a normal Moveset Discussion would, that means most post in this thread should be in the form of Moveset Submissions!

    I'll be a tad bit stricter with this then I was in the ability discussion so please try and avoid making small posts that don't contribute to the discussion.

    Moveset submissions should be submitted in this format:

    Moveset Submission

    Name: Choice Band
    Move 1: Flare Blitz
    Move 2: Sucker Punch
    Move 3: U-turn
    Move 4: Stone Edge
    Ability: Guts
    Item: Choice Band
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    • Because of CAP X's Fire typing, Flare Blitz does a lot of damage.
    • Sucker Punch allows it priority, as well as the ability to handle Slowking.
    • Stone Edge allows it to OHKO Talonflame.
    • U-Turn can be used to scout, as well as abuse predicted switches.
    • Choice Band is used to amplify damage and fulfil CAP X's role as a wallbreaker
    • In case CAP X gets hit by status conditions, Guts raises its damage output to even higher levels.

    New moves can only be suggested if they are a part of a whole moveset, so don't go around making posts just to suggest a new coverage move. All new moves need to be accompanied with a thorough explanation and accurate, relevant calcs to support them. Your ability to provide relevant calcs reflects your experience and knowledge of the metagame, so it's extremely important to include them in your post.

    Remember to think twice before you suggest a new coverage move because coverage is a very powerful thing, also try to think of useful healing moves that Revenakh could utilise with its new ability Triage!
  3. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
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    Revenankh @ Payapa Berry
    Ability: Triage
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Shadow Strike
    - Ice Punch
    - Bulk Up/Moonlight

    Shadow Strike is a better fit for Revenankh than Shadow Bone for several reasons. From a competitive standpoint, the defense drop is more useful than the added power because Revenankh can actually threaten things like defensive Tomohawk a lot better at -1 Defense, which gives Revenankh some badly needed staying power. It also makes switching in slower stuff like Pyroak considerably less reliable.

    From a flavor standpoint, I feel that considering Kitsunoh and Revenankh are both CAPs, giving Revenankh Kit's signature move is less odious than giving it Alolan Marowak's signature move.

    Ice Punch is absolutely necessary coverage to run for Landorus-Therian and Tomohawk.

    You absolutely need three attacks, one of which must be a non-priority Ghost attack (because of Lele, so no Shadow Sneak), so you only have one slot left to choose between Bulk Up or Moonlight.
  4. G-Luke

    G-Luke We Eat Losers
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    Praise lord helix.

    Revenankh @ Ghostium Z
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
    Ability: Triage
    Adamant Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Phantom Force
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch / Gunk Shot / Moonlight

    Offensive Bulk Up set feat. Ghostium Z boosted Phantom Force. The boosted attack allows it to break past threats with its STAB alone. Gunk Shot is also added to beat Fairies, if needed. Otherwise run Moonlight to keep up its HP.

    +1 252+ Atk Revenankh Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Tapu Fini: 265-313 (77.2 - 91.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    More defensive sets later.
  5. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
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    Revenankh @ Choice Band
    Ability: Triage
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Shadow Claw
    - Ice Punch
    - Shadow Sneak / Earthquake / Power Whip

    Triage is such a potent ability for Rev, and frankly, I am quite scared of what it could become if we give it too strong a Ghost STAB to work with. That said, I do think it could use some minor improvement, which is why I would suggest Shadow Claw. Its 70 power is only a small step up from Shadow Punch's 60, but it does make a substantial difference, such as giving this set a chance to 2HKO SpD Mollux, who could previously wall Rev if it didn't run EQ. Really though, this set is not trying to do too much new. With Triage, Drain Punch is simply an insane move, and I'd rather not add too much new to Rev beyond this. I think, whether we want them to or not, CB sets, or at least all out offensive in general will be popular, and without expanding its options too much, this is I think the most likely set up:
    • Drain Punch is the main spammable move, being very strong for having priority. One of the strongest priority moves in the entire game, and with so much else going for it with the priority being +3 and it also healing. Expect to be choosing this a lot on every single set Rev ever runs.
    • Shadow Claw is an OK secondary STAB. Its not going to be anything ridiculous, but it scares Tapu Lele and others from switching in for free.
    • Ice Punch is the most crucial coverage move in Ice Punch, letting it slam Lando-T and the like, who could hard stop it otherwise.
    • The last slot has a number of options. Shadow Sneak allows Rev to pick off or clean up when the opponent have ghosts or psychic types that Drain Punch cannot deal with.
    • Alternatively, you could use this last slot on EQ, which will guaranteed OHKO Mollux, Plasmanta, Crucibelle, Volkraken and Tapu Koko, potentially OHKO Magearna, Krilowatt, and 2HKO Cyclohm (after SR) and Toxapex.
    • Power Whip is the final option here, with its main target being Tapu Fini, potentially OHKOing its most common set after Stealth Rock. Power Whip is also just its strongest option in general for water and ground types.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  6. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight RIP DryPass Vaporeon
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    Only making minor additions:

    Leech Life is now a TM so access to it is not outlandish, and Leech Life also gets the priority boost from Triage, functioning as a more powerful option than Shadow Sneak against many Psychic type opponents (MegaZam, Latis), though notably not Tapu Lele whom you would have to hit with your fourth move (you could opt for Ghost STAB). Crucially, Leech Life doesn't add any coverage Revenankh doesn't already possess, as it can already hit Grass, Dark, and / or Psychic Types for super-effective damage, though granted not in one move.

    That's my only suggestion for the CB Set. The real set I like and one which I think suits Rev better than trying to Ice Punch Lando-T:

    Set Name: SubWisp Ankh
    Revenankh @ Leftovers
    Ability: Triage
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Substitute
    - Will-o-Wisp
    - Drain Punch
    - Shadow Claw / Phantom Force / Bulk Up

    Revenankh has always wanted to be able to burn opponents, and out movepool for Revenankh was actually very, very conservative. In Generation 7 even Froslass got access to Will-o-Wisp after not recieving it for so long, and so it's time for Revenankh to move on with the times. Not to mention Revenankh doesn't even learn Stone Edge or Close Combat, two moves that are much more common on Fighting types even then, so I think we can afford to scale Revenankh up a little bit with better baseline options. Will-O-Wisp of course allows Revenankh to perform much better as a mixed wall, utilizing Substitute and its high Special Bulk (and the laughable damage it takes from U-turn to survive basically anything that might try a pivot move on it to scout its set. Drain Punch is the natural choice for STAB here as it benefits from Triage and makes Rev harder to KO because of the small priority healing. The final slot can either utilize Ghost STAB or Bulk Up to become a slow moving offensive threat.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  7. HeaLnDeaL

    HeaLnDeaL Reluntantly Having Fun
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    Shadow Strike is a fake move. CAP should not be using fake moves anymore.
  8. Garbagery

    Garbagery

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    Wip as of now
    Curse stallbreaker/actual stall revenakh
    Revenankh @ Leftovers
    Ability: Triage
    EVs: 208 HP / 4 Def / 228 SpD / 68 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Moonlight
    - Curse
    - Drain Punch/mean look/taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp/Subtitute/taunt

    • I fully support will o wisp, reasons said in Deck Night's post.
    • Be careful when trying to go up against physical attackers, your will o wisp is ussualy last cus ur slow.
    • 68 speed evs were to outspeed skarmory and things slower than skarmory in order to taunt them before they can recover. Alternitevely you can just dump those 68 evs in spd or def if you plan to stall.
    • While this set seem a bit niche in comparison to the othersets, curse revenakh can surprise a few teams and fight stall, or be stally itself. Unfortunately this set really suffers from four move syndrome, but that just means it can be customized on whether to stall or just stallbreak.
    • Mean look and taunt are pretty needed for the stallbreaker set, as it needs to stop stallers recovering and escaping the curse. Alternatively subtitute can be run so it can avoid mega sableye willo wisp. Drain punch is so it doesn't completely become taunt bait and can revenge if it needs to. Will o wisp is so it can wall physical attackers.
    • This set would appreciate a cleric/wishpasher in case it ever gets statused
    • Alternatively the set could be run with phantom force, but it'd be hard to fit it in. Z curse can work as well.
    calcs (open)

    252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 208 HP / 228+ SpD Revenankh: 216-254 (57.9 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Moonblast vs. 208 HP / 228+ SpD Revenankh: 257-304 (68.9 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    +4 252 Atk burned Cawmodore Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 252 HP / 68 Def Revenankh: 216-255 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    ( in case u run the willo 68 defense set)


    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  9. snake_rattler

    snake_rattler

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    It's more of an optics thing, but I don't think we can use CAP-made moves. If we can I certainly would rather have Shadow Strike for competitive reasons, but Shadow Bone is definitely a close second.

    To make this not just a CAP policy post, a stronger Ghost-type STAB should make up for needing coverage moves like Gunk Shot, which allows us to have a cleaner update (Triage + Shadow Bone/Claw) and lets us focus on the unique coverage Revenankh already has. It depends on how much we want Fairy-types to give Revenakh trouble, really, but I'd rather focus more on Revenankh's neutral STAB coverage.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  10. Kyubics

    Kyubics

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    Name: Bulky Bulk Up
    Revenankh @ Leftovers
    Ability: Triage
    EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Shadow Bone (Shadow Claw)
    - Recover (Moonlight)

    I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, since it's what Rev was meant, at least, to be best at. This set forgoes coverage and power for bulk, allowing Revenankh to set up more easily. However, this does mean it needs more boosts under its belt to hit as hard.
    • Leftovers is the obvious choice on this kind of set, giving Revenankh some passive recovery and making it more difficult to wear down.
    • The EVs focus on Rev's Special Defence as it will hopefully be boosting its Physical Defence with Bulk Up. It also allows Rev to set up against neutral or weak super-effective attacks (I guess I can give some specific calcs if people want them). This particular spread ensures that Revenankh will always live a Choice Scarf Tapu Lele Psychic from full health with the rest dumped into attack.I suppose some of this could be put into speed, but since it is relatively weak, I thought that it would be more valued in attack. Max HP also reaches a Leftovers number.
    • Bulk Up is Bulk Up, as we all know, allowing Rev to boost both its bulk and power.
    • Drain Punch is obligatory with Triage, and is the only real way for Revenakh to hold its own against more offensive teams with its +3 priority.
    • Ghost STAB grants amazing neutral coverage as well as making Lele weary of switching in. I'd prefer Shadow Bone for the added power, but if we decide to only give Rev Shadow Claw, that should be ran here.
    • Priority recovery is amazing. Simply put, it allows Revenankh to set up as much as it likes on anything that can't 2HKO it. Also, the +3 priority means that it can't be picked off from low health with opposing priority. However, Revenankh would love the extra PP and reliability granted by Recover, since its typing isn't the best defensively and it makes it much easier to set up - the closer a move comes to 2HKOing it the more recovery PP Rev requires. That said if we, unfortunately, decided not to grant Revenankh Recover, its existing option of Moonlight should be used.
    • Not having a coverage move like Ice Punch is annoying when facing Landorus-T, however it can use the defensive set as set up fodder and the Z-Fly set beats it anyway unless Rev has multiple boosts.
    Like many others, this Revenankh set really hates defensive Tomohawk, and this set in particular dislikes status. Toxic makes it almost impossible to stay in for as long as Rev wants, and Burn both cuts its longevity and necessitates more boosts for it to deal meaningful damage.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  11. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight RIP DryPass Vaporeon
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    Just a general note, our policy on previous custom elements of CAP is they stay specific to the custom CAP they are no in deference to continuity and honoroing the CAP's process, so Shadow Bone is fine to discuss, Shadow Strike is not. As far as Shadow Bone being unique, the same was true of Megahorn at one time, and at least Rev has some plausible explanation (being based on literally a mummified corpse) for why it might be using shadowy bones offensively.
  12. nv

    nv The Lost Age
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    Figured I would share a couple sets I had in mind n_n

    [​IMG]
    Name: Walk Like An Egyptian
    Move 1: Shadow Bone
    Move 2: Drain Punch
    Move 3: Bulk Up
    Move 4: Substitute
    Ability: Triage
    Item: Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 244 SpD
    Nature: Careful
    • Leftovers give this set a means of passive recovery and allows Revenankh to not be worn down as easily.
    • EVs are tailored specifically to allow Revenankh to live Choice Scarf Tapu Lele's Psychic under Psychic Terrain after Stealth Rock while also hitting a Leftovers number.
    • Triage is Revenankh's new ability that allows it to give itself priority via recovery moves.
    • Shadow Bone gives Revenankh a reliable Ghost-type STAB move with a nice secondary effect attached to it and is powerful enough without being overwhelming.
    • Drain Punch takes advantage of Triage, giving Revenankh a very powerful priority recovery move that allows it to come back from the "point of no return" by healing itself while also packing a punch.
    • Bulk Up gives Revenankh a way to boost its weaker defensive stat, allowing it to become bulky on both sides.
    • Substitute gives Revenankh a way to potentially avoid status as any status can cripple it with ease.
    [​IMG]
    Name: King Tut
    Move 1: Shadow Bone
    Move 2: Drain Punch
    Move 3: Ice Punch
    Move 4: Healing Wish / Trick / Shadow Sneak
    Ability: Triage
    Item: Choice Band
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    • EVs specifically allow Revenankh to outspeed fully invested, neutral natured base 50s such as Mega Mawile while maximizing its Attack. The rest is dumped into HP for overall bulk.
    • Choice Band gives Revenankh a much needed power boost.
    • Shadow Bone is a reliable Ghost-type STAB that also has a neat 20% chance to lower the opponent's Defense, making Revenankh hard to switch into.
    • Drain Punch takes advantage of Triage, Revenankh's new ability, to give itself priority recovery while also providing a somewhat powerful Fighting-type STAB move.
    • Ice Punch allows Revenankh to nail Landorus-T, Colossoil, and Zygarde on the switch and force them to either switch back out or be KOed.
    • Lastly, Healing Wish gives Revenankh a bit of utility as, thanks to Triage, you are nearly guaranteed to get it off especially with the immunity to Fake Out. This allows Revenankh to punch holes early and then proceed to give its teammates a chance to clean up.
    • Trick is a nice option still to cripple walls while Shadow Sneak provides Revenankh with another priority move.
    I figured I would comment on this set as I really like this a lot. I just added in a couple changes as the EVs I provided allow you to burn uninvested base 70s such as Skarmory before they attack and I really feel like Shadow Bone would be a much better option > Shadow Claw because I disagree with jas in saying that Triage gives Rev "too much" so thus we have to scale back its new Ghost STAB because in my opinion, Revenankh's sets should focus on utilizing its amazing neutral STAB coverage and not giving it coverage for Fairy-types or whatever (as I have seen with a couple of submissions giving it Gunk Shot).
  13. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
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    Ok, seriously, I know I am not a leader for this update, but all the talk of Shadow Bone is really getting me a but worried. Not necessarily about power level, but about our adherence to our update principles. CAP has, at least since I have been here, had a bad habit of always wanting too give out the strongest STAB moves available without any real thought, and I feel like this is an extension of that. These updates are supposed to be both conservative and consistent with real Pokemon flavor. While it is fine to give a move if we feel it is necessary competitively, handing out a brand new signature move, just because it is powerful, goes against both these principles.

    And so far, not a single person advocating Shadow Bone has given any reason other than that it is "good" or "stronger." Not a single reason, much less any calc, on why being stronger is a good thing. And that is a problem. Stronger for is own sake is not just not a good reason, but it is also inherently against our update principles. Now, I'm not saying we must reject this move outright, but really, until someone can actually defend why we should have it over the alternatives using actual data, it really should not even be under consideration.
  14. G-Luke

    G-Luke We Eat Losers
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    I think we should firstly determine what should/can threaten our new and improved Rev first before adding moves
  15. nv

    nv The Lost Age
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    I figured I would expand on my post since I agree with jas in that I (among others) were just adding Shadow Bone for the sake of it being stronger than say Shadow Claw. I thought I should add some calcs and some reasoning as to why I believe Shadow Bone is a great option for both of Rev's soon-to-be staple sets (Bulk Up and Choice Band) and why Shadow Claw doesn't cut it as a reliable STAB.

    The Viability of its Sets + what its Checks & Counters should be

    I have to admit that it seems like giving a signature move to Revenankh would be a bit unprecedented, but in actuality Shadow Bone would help Revenankh in forcing switches or wallbreaking like it needs to. Particularly, I am biased towards the movepool update focusing on giving Rev better STAB options over better coverage simply because we still want it to be threatened by its checks and counters (bulky walls that can status it such as Zygarde and Pyroak, Fairy types such as Tapu Lele and Tapu Fini, as well as Flying-types such as Zapdos) while also being an effective Bulk Up user. While we do want it to be abusing Bulk Up, Choice Band is bound to be a potent set purely because of Triage in combination with Drain Punch so we want to account for that in the movepool update as well. While I do agree that Triage is a very powerful addition to Revenankh, the only moves Revenankh has to benefit from it are Drain Punch, Moonlight, and Rest, leaving it to rely on its bulk / power to break through the opponent. I am for disallowing anything that changes Revenankh's checks & counters, such as Gunk Shot and Stone Edge, as it makes Revenankh be able to beat stuff it normally couldn't beat before and thus changes its list of checks and counters. This means that, in my opinion, we should be restricted to updating Revenankh's movepool to take further advantage of its new ability, Triage, while also capitalizing on giving a better Ghost-type STAB.

    Shadow Bone vs. Shadow Claw

    The reason I am in support of Shadow Bone over Shadow Claw is because of the utility it provides. While it does have a 15 BP increase from Shadow Claw, Shadow Bone doesn't end up having a major difference in damage when it comes to particular things that should check Revenankh.
    Bulk Up Revenankh Shadow Bone Calcs (open)
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 73-87 (21.2 - 25.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Lele: 246-290 (87.5 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 102-120 (25.4 - 29.9%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable: 115-136 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 78-93 (20.3 - 24.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 76-90 (18.3 - 21.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Bulk Up Revenankh Shadow Claw Calcs (open)
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 60-72 (17.4 - 20.9%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Lele: 204-240 (72.5 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 84-99 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable: 94-112 (23.8 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 64-76 (16.7 - 19.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
    12 Atk Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 61-73 (14.7 - 17.6%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Defensive Bulk Up Calcs (open)
    0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Revenankh: 126-150 (32.8 - 39%) -- 65.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Revenankh: 134-158 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Revenankh in Psychic Terrain: 300-354 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Revenankh: 134-158 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Revenankh: 212-252 (55.2 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Bone Calcs (open)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 148-175 (43.1 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Lele: 494-584 (175.8 - 207.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 205-243 (51.1 - 60.5%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable: 235-277 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 159-187 (41.5 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 153-180 (36.9 - 43.4%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Claw Calcs (open)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 123-145 (35.8 - 42.2%) -- 92.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Lele: 408-482 (145.1 - 171.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 169-201 (42.1 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 130-154 (33.9 - 40.2%) -- 37.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 126-148 (30.4 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Defensive Choice Band Calcs (open)
    0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Revenankh: 168-200 (47.8 - 56.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Revenankh: 437-515 (124.5 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Revenankh: 182-216 (51.8 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Revenankh in Psychic Terrain: 410-486 (116.8 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Revenankh: 288-338 (82 - 96.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Revenankh: 182-216 (51.8 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    The only issue with giving Revenankh Shadow Bone > Shadow Claw is that it can guarantee the 2HKO on a would-be check, Clefable, on the Choice Band set, but overall the damage difference is negligible whenever Revenankh is still being 2HKOed by these checks and counters while it has to rely on either getting a boost or gaining chip damage on these checks to end up overpowering them.

    The main reason I am pro-Shadow Bone is because Shadow Bone, while having a better BP than Shadow Claw (and only 5 less than the other option people have been suggesting, Phantom Force) Shadow Bone provides Revenankh with opportunities to provide itself to set up or beat walls that it should be beating in my opinion. Shadow Bone admittedly makes the Choice Band set way more threatening, but I am ok in doing that as it still has a hard time locking itself into its STABs thanks to having an immunity for both while the Bulk Up set would really appreciate the ability to force switches via the potential Defense drop to give itself setup opportunities and be able to overpower potential Unaware walls that may status it and even surprise Pokemon such as HazeHawk, forcing it to attack as it would lose inevitably with Defense drops.

    Focusing on Triage

    I figured I would mention this little bit at the end of my post by saying that these submissions should really focus on "abusing" Triage as we want to give Revenankh a place in the SM CAP metagame and by focusing on its new ability, I feel we can do so. This can be accomplished by giving it a better recovery move such as Recover or Shore Up, giving it another attacking move i.e. Leech Life, or by focusing on the utility aspect of it similar to me suggesting Healing Wish to help give the CB sets a niche over the Bulk Up sets (and give Rev a bit more variety).

    In conclusion, I hope this post sort of sums up why I feel Shadow Bone isn't so much "necessary" for Revenankh, but rather is a really neat option that gives itself the opportunity to force the opponent out and set up on said forced switches, which ultimately benefits the "original concept" i.e. "Ultimate Bulk Up Sweeper" and allows it to focus on that despite us also benefitting a set that doesn't fit the concept i.e. Choice Band.
  16. Wenderz

    Wenderz

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    117
    Name: Cleric Revenankh
    Move 1: Wish
    Move 2: Moonlight / Protect
    Move 3: Will-O-Wisp / Drain Punch
    Move 4: Shadow Bone / Phantom Force / Drain Punch
    Ability: Triage
    Item: Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD
    Nature: Careful
    • Since this Set is a defensive Revenankh, Leftovers seems obvious, especcially with Protect.
    • 84 in Def allows you to take at least two EQ from AV Colossoil and prevents him from spinning. Keep in Mind that if he has Guts and if you don't have Drain Punch, you surely going to lose against him. The rest is put in SpDef in order to wall most Special attacker.
    • Wish has priority +3 with Triage, which allows you to use it before getting taunted or killed. Furthermore, if you packs Moonlight, you can use Wish to heal your Mons even if Rev gets heavily damaged because you'll be able to use priority heal on him later, so it won't be overhelmed, which is usually a huge problem for other cleric not called Alomomola.
    • Moonlight is here when you need to heal Rev instantely without having to wait for next turn, Protect can be used with Wish too and allow to scout something or to greatly reduce damage from a Z-Move.
    • Will-O-Wisp is a nightmare for physical attacker like M-Mawile which could switch on you otherwise.
    • Among offensive options, there are Shadow Bone, the most reliable Ghost physical stall with a Def drop which could help you in some Stall War, Phantom Force which fits well with Wish and provide some nice momemtum if your opponent switch on Revenankh (be careful when using it though as you can offer a free turn to your ooponent) and Drain Punch, a priority STAB which heals you more, but doesn't work against other Ghost type.
  17. snake_rattler

    snake_rattler

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,019
    Revenankh has never been a cleric, and we shouldn't be making it into a cleric simply because we can. Wish is very much "adding for the sake of adding" (A stronger Ghost-type STAB like Shadow Claw is not).

    I'd also like to question the Recover suggestions (and other similar moves) I've seen in the thread. Revenankh already has Moonlight. Is there a clear reason why we need to give Revenankh a move with more PP than just to let it have more times to click it?

    Basically, I'm all for Triage Revenankh, but we don't have to give it a ton of healing moves just because it got Triage. Let's focus on improving what Revenankh does (eastablished metagame role), not giving it tangential niches.
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  18. Reviloja753

    Reviloja753

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    703
    I agree that Shadow Bone would be a nice addition to Revenankh for the reasons you mentioned. However, I do think we need to mind our step with Triage. While I do agree that it needs more moves to use Triage with, we need to not go super overboard with moves like Wish and Recover, because Moonlight is fine as it is. If it lived to pull it off, recovery wasn't an issue. The main issue Triage addresses is speed, not recovery. I do however want to give my support to Leech Life(but does Revenankh have fangs of any kind? Might be an issue for consistency). It is another way of recovery, and only one of the three types that are checks to Revenankh is weak to Bug, and that is Psychic, which is already weak to Ghost.
  19. snake_rattler

    snake_rattler

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
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    Leech Life is potentially dangerous. Sure, you lose out of Ghost-type STAB, but a few faster Psychic-type checks (not counters because of Ghost-type STAB!) suddenly have a much harder time doing their job against Revenankh.

    +1 12 Atk Revenankh Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 258-304 (102.7 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 12 Atk Revenankh Leech Life vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Aurumoth: 184-218 (50.1 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 350-412 (139.4 - 164.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Revenankh Leech Life vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Aurumoth: 248-294 (67.5 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    It might be a step down from Shadow Claws in terms of power, but hitting through these checks like this is unnecessary IMO. For example, instead of having to predict and hit weakened Aurumoth on the switch with Ghost-type STAB, you can just Leech Life the next turn and potentially KOing it. I don't want to see this move plz.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  20. LucarioOfLegends

    LucarioOfLegends

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Messages:
    346
    I fully agree with snake here. Leech Life is a very bad idea. While it isn't the strongest move offensively for other types, it is a serious problem when it comes to Psychic types. Giving Rev a 80 BP coverage move which has +3 Priority completely invalidates psychic types as a check. Not to mention, this move recovers health for Rev, like Drain Punch. Just because we get to update these Mons doesn't mean we have to make them overpowered.
  21. Reviloja753

    Reviloja753

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    703
    Set Name: Dance of Swords
    Revenankh @
    Ability: Triage
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 SpDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Moonlight / Ice Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - Drain Punch
    - Shadow Bone

    This set is more of a discussion point more than anything, as SD has been mentioned in the room on multiple occasions, even from KrazyCake himself. My feelings on this kind of set is mixed. On the one hand, this set would make Nankh have a nice unique niche in CAP and would work out pretty well. On the other hand, you could argue that this destroys the one thing Nankh was centered around and is too good. I just wanted to bring this up to see what others thought of it, as I am personally unsure myself.
  22. snake_rattler

    snake_rattler

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,019
    Triage assists Bulk Up set up well enough. I feel like Swords Dance is largely unnecessary to the success of Revenankh's update. Without Triage, Revenankh is good at abusing Bulk Up boosts defensively, but it has speed issues after setting up, mainly that it doesn't have the extra turn it needs to heal up or attack after boosting. However, Triage mitigates this issue, allowing a more viable Bulk Up set. Therefore, I believe that Swords Dance would be "adding for the sake of adding" and violates the Conservation principle of our Updates policy:

    8. Conservation: All Updates should be as conservative as possible in acclimating the CAPs to the new release's environment.

    This point can be found in this post. Swords Dance would be a mistake.

    Instead of trying to add on more moves, at this point I think we should settle the Shadow Bone vs. Shadow Claw debate. This has been unresolved for too long imo. Next, does anyone have any real objection with Will-O-Wisp? I don't see too much of a problem with it myself. Finally, I don't think we need Gunk Shot as a coverage move. Revenankh already has a powerful STAB combination and set of coverage moves on its own, so do we really need this move? I don't think we do because its target, Fairy-types, are already taken care of pretty well by Ghost-type STAB and its existing coverage moves. Tapu Lele gets knocked by Shadow Claw/Bone. Rev already has Power Whip for Tapu Fini. Ice Punch or Ghost-type STAB for Bulu. Earthquake for Tapu Koko. I know I'm not posting calcs and numbers, but Revenankh already has tools to beat most common Fairy-types, just not as effectively as Gunk Shot.
  23. LucarioOfLegends

    LucarioOfLegends

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Messages:
    346
    Yea, I gotta say I don't like Swords Dance at all. It disregards Revenankh's identity as a Bulk Up user, and seems more like adding just to give Revenankh more different options, which violates Conservation.

    I have to say, I have no real preference towards Will-O-Wisp on Rev, as it has possible utility but uses a moveslot. It has some serious advantages but just as many drawbacks, so I see no problem with this. Gunk Shot is a bad idea, as it eliminates one of Revenankh's newest threats: Fairy types. And since they are a very dominant force in the metagame right now, that would be getting rid of a large number of checks and is essentially overbuffing. Shadow Bone I have no real preference for, but I do worry that the BP plus the defense drops could cause balance issues, so I'll hold my breath for now.
  24. Reviloja753

    Reviloja753

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2017
    Messages:
    703
    Yeah, I'm against Swords Dance now.

    Anyways, I'm pretty much with NV on Shadow Bone. I think it would be pretty handy and be a nice move to give to Nankh. Will-O-Wisp I'm good with, as it helps out the more defensive side of Nankh, which seems like a good idea. As for Gunk Shot, it seems like a bad idea to give to it, as iirc, we wanted Lele to beat Nankh, no? Gunk Shot would be able to beat Lele with ease if made bulky enough.
  25. G-Luke

    G-Luke We Eat Losers
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    1,782
    Pro-Boner as I am, I believe we should still trod careful ground with the mummy. We already turned a meme set to its best set, and it annoys me a bit at the lack of discussion BU has gotten.

    Will O Wisp is quite fine on it, as even Ice type Ghosts get it now.

    Gunk Shot should be shot out of the window.
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