Carracosta (Analysis)

AccidentalGreed

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<p>Carracosta is one of the newest fossil Pokemon, premiering in Black / White, and it seems to be bringing in some of its own brand of turtle power. It can be an effective physical tank with its stellar Defense, five resistances, and Solid Rock; when backed by Sandstorm, it can also take some special hits. However, it is with Shell Smash where it shines. Carracosta is arguably the strongest user of Shell Smash in terms of sheer power, sporting Base 108 Atk and Base 83 SpA, which are doubled thanks to Shell Smash.</p>

<p>While Carracosta has many things going for it, it is not without faults. It is horribly slow; even with a Shell Smash boost, a neutral-natured Carracosta won't be outrunning Base 100 Speed Pokemon. Its movepool is also lackluster, consisting of mostly Water-, Rock-, and Normal-type attacks. While Solid Rock helps in tanking hits, Carracosta's base Special Defense is also poor, in addition to lacking any recovery move outside of the unreliable Rest. To top it off, the Water / Rock typing brings about four common weaknesses, including a crippling Grass-type weakness. Still, don't let those faults convince you to forgo Carracosta. It can be a good wall under sandstorm or a great sweeper/ or wallbreaker if played correctly.</p>

[SET]
name: Physical Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Waterfall / Aqua Jet
move 3: Stone Edge / Rock Slide
move 4: Earthquake
item: Life Orb / White Herb
ability: Solid Rock
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Carracosta is one of the few Pokemon to receive the blessings of Shell Smash, boosting its great offenses and lackluster Speed to acceptable levels. Bring in Carracosta on something it can easily take on and set off a Shell Smash. After one Shell Smash boost, Carracosta reaches an attack stat of 630 (819 with Life Orb) and a speed stat of 358, outspeeding Base 113 Pokemon by one point. From there, use the coverage of Water-, Rock-, and Ground-type attacks to deal destructive damage. Waterfall is Carracosta's primary Water-type STAB move, with the added advantage of possibly flinching opponents. However, there are still some notable Pokemon, such as Sand Rush Excadrill under Sandstorm, who will still outrun Carracosta. For that reason, Aqua Jet is perfectly acceptable, especially if Carracosta chooses to compete with an Adamant nature. Although not as damaging as Waterfall, after one boost, Carracosta can OHKO Excadrill, possibly one of the most threatening sweepers under Sandstorm. Even without a boost, Carracosta can easily 2HKO Excadrill with Aqua Jet. The choice between Stone Edge and Rock Slide is the age old debate between power versus accuracy, but note that Rock Slide has the potential to flinch foes, much like Waterfall can. Earthquake rounds out the coverage in this set, hitting Steel-type and Electric-type foes super effectively while also helping against Electric-types.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Although Aqua Tail isn't listed here, it can still be used over the other two Water type moves, being slightly more powerful. The risk it poses is its minor inaccuracy, which Carracosta can't really afford, having weakened its defenses stats after Shell Smash. If you aren't satisfied with the offensive output from a Jolly nature, an Adamant nature can be used to sport an impressive 899 Attack. The downside is that at most, Carracosta will tie with Base 99 Speed Pokemon, meaning Carracosta will most assuredly want Aqua Jet to get the jump on faster foes while taking advantage of that increased Attack by using Stone Edge. The item choice comes down to a desire of survivability versus power output. Life Orb is arguably the choice should you desire stronger damage output after one boost. However, White Herb deserves a special mention, in that it gives room for a second Shell Smash or returns natural bulk to Carracosta for preserving Carracosta's defenses after a Shell Smash boost. If played correctly, Carracosta may even snatch a second boost.</p>

<p>This set has no reliable way to battle Ferrothorn and bulky Grass-types, since Ferrothorn takes neutral damage from Earthquake and most bulky Grass-types can survive a boosted Stone Edge. For that reason, the best partners are Magnezone and Infernape. Magnezone can trap Ferrothorn and proceed for the quick OHKO with Hidden Power Fire while Infernape can do the same to Ferrothorn in addition to having STAB on Fire-type attacks, making combating Grass-types an easy prospect.</p>

[SET]
Name: Cursing Turtle
Move 1: Curse
Move 2: Aqua Jet / Aqua Tail
Move 3: Stone Edge
Move 4: Earthquake
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Though Shell Smash is one of Carracosta's most valued moves, Curse should definitely not be overlooked. It may be slower to do than Shell Smash, but this way, Carracosta can boost its stellar Defense in conjunction with its Attack, which, when paired up with Solid Rock, means it can sponge hits more efficiently while still dealing enough damage to the opponent. Aqua Jet is chosen as Carracosta's primary Water-type STAB because Carracosta has slow speed, which is further decreased by Curse, but priority against threatening sweepers, such as Excadrill under Sandstorm, is valuable to take them down. If you want more power, Aqua Tail is preferred over Waterfall, seeing as the chances of flinch are less likely (barring Trick Room). It also has the merit of 2HKOing common variants of Hippowdon after one boost. Stone Edge is dominant over Rock Slide because of the power difference while Earthquake rounds out the set yet again to combat bulky Steel-types such as Metagross.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Careful is chosen to bolster that underwhelming Special Defense to acceptable levels, but it can't be emphasized enough: Sandstorm is necessary to make the best of this set. After one boost from Curse, Carracosta sports an impressive 352 HP / 453 Def / 376 SpD, not to mention a nice 379 Attack stat. If you'd rather sponge physical hits even better with Curse, go with an Impish nature and allocate those Special Defense EVs into Defense.</p>

<p>Much like the physical Shell Smash set, this set has no reliable way of battling Ferrothorn, since Earthquake will be hitting for paltry damage even after the boost. For this reason, Magnezone is the perfect partner; it can trap Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory with Magnet Pull and proceed for the easy KO with Hidden Power Fire and Thunderbolt, respectively. With no reliable way to battle against bulky Grass-types, Fire-types of your own, such as Infernape, help in that aspect, while also doubling the efforts against Steel-types who or are neutral against Earthquake. As for the preferred Sand Streamer, Tyranitar edges Hippowdon, since Tyranitar has a usable Special Attack to battle against bulky Grass-types.</p>

[SET]
Name: Wallbreaking
Move 1: Shell Smash
Move 2: Surf / Hydro Pump
Move 3: Stone Edge / Rock Slide
Move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast
Item: Life Orb / White Herb
Ability: Solid Rock
Nature: Rash / Naive
EVs: 48 Atk / 208 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With Shell Smash also boosting Carracosta's decent Special Attack, it would be a shame not to make a mixed set. After one Shell Smash and Life Orb's boost, Carracosta reaches 686 Atk / 722 SpA / 324 Spe, set up for some nice wallbreaking action. Surf is chosen over Hydro Pump for the reliability, but Hydro Pump hits foes harder. The given Attack EVs ensure that Rock Slide, after the boost, will OHKO many bulky foes, such as Physically Defensive Zapdos and Bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados; this means that Stone Edge is basically overkill to the Electric Bird and Water Serpent. Therefore, Rock Slide can always be used over Stone Edge for general reliability in terms of accuracy. The final moveslot is up for grabs; with Hidden Power Fire, Carracosta can reliably lure and OHKO Ferrothorn after the boost. However, Focus Blast deserves merit as it too can also do the same (provided it hits), in addition to providing coverage against foes such as Hydreigon and Empoleon.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>An alternative spread to go for is 20 Atk / 236 SpA / 252 Spe with a Rash nature. After Shell Smash, Carracosta can easily OHKO Ferrothorn 100% of the time with Focus Blast without prior damage (percentage not including accuracy issues with Focus Blast).This ensures Carracosta does not have to sacrifice any IVs to acquire a perfect Hidden Power Fire. Rock Slide once again can go over Stone Edge; however Stone Edge is the definitive Rock-type move, if you want to OHKO Zapdos after a Shell Smash boost. Finally, though not mentioned, Ice Beam is also an option to gain an advantage against both Grass- and Dragon-type Pokemon. to batter Grass-types harder than Hidden Power Fire while hitting Dragon-types with a secondary typing harder, such as Garchomp and Salamence .</p>

<p>A Naïve nature is a perfectly acceptable nature to use, as with Focus Blast and the given spread, Carracosta still has the chance of OHKOing Ferrothorn, dealing 84.7% - 100% damage with ???. Again, Carracosta will be sacrificing a bit of power to outrun additional foes, and Stone Edge once again becomes the premier option as its Rock-type attack to achieve any OHKOs or 2HKOs.</p>

<p>Unlike the previous sets, this Carracosta is less dependent on teammates such as Infernape and Magnezone since it alone can defeat its previous counters. However, as repeatedly mentioned, Shell Smash still isn't enough to outspeed threats such as Starmie. For that reason, Ferrothorn becomes a great teammate to this set, helping in setting up Spikes and Stealth Rock and scaring while beating Starmie. Priority from Conkledurr is more troublesome, especially if Carracosta lacks White Herb, so bulky Ghost- or Psychic-types such as Cofagrigus and Reuniclus, respectively, can be used as set up fodder for Calm Mind sets can be used to counter Conkeldurr, practically making it set up fodder with their Calm Mind sets. In Cofagrigus' case, its Mummy ability is a benefit as it takes away Conkledurr's Guts ability when touched.</p>

[SET]
Name: Banded Turtle
Move 1: Aqua Jet
Move 2: Aqua Tail
Move 3: Stone Edge
Move 4: Earthquake
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock / Sturdy
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With a decent physical movepool and a great Attack stat, Carracosta is a good candidate for a Choice Band. With Choice Band attached, Carracosta reaches 519 Attack. From there proceed to attack with the tried and true Water / Rock / Ground combo Carracosta's combination of powerful coverage moves. By not having a boosting move, Carracosta frees up a moveslot, which can be filled up with any move, but Aqua Tail helps in combating bulkier Ground-types, such as Hippowdon. harder, such as Hippowdon.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Crunch is an option to use to batter Ghost types harder, but there are other moves that can be put in. Body Slam can be used to cause paralysis, helping other sweepers on your team. Or, Flail, though very situational, can be used to deal even more damage as Carracosta is weakened. Flail is best used with Sturdy though. Carracosta's other notable offensive option is Crunch, which can be used to break through Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon. It may also choose to forgo a moveslot for a Normal-type move, such as Body Slam or Flail. Normal-type moves generally good coverage with Carracosta's Water-type STAB attacks. However, the all-around coverageprovided by the main options far surpasses the coverage from choosing to use the aforementioned moves.</p>

<p>Hitting hard immediately is great, but one must not forget that this particular Carracosta is extremely slow; with no Speed EV investment, this Carracosta sits at a paltry 100 Speed stat. In addition, Ferrothorn plagues Carracosta yet again, easily resisting every move except the neutral Earthquake. As usual, Infernape and Magnezone are great partners yet again for that aspect for offensive support against Ferrothorn and Carracosta's other checks and counters. Meanwhile, Virizion, with its Grass- and Fighting-type STAB and resistance to Grass- and Electric-types moves, teams up well with Carracosta, as Carracosta can deal with the Flying- and Fire-types that plague Virizion in return.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Rock Polish is largely outclassed by Shell Smash, but it is there if you feel having Carracosta's bulk is to your benefit in sweeping and even when used, Carracosta has much competition with other Rock Polish users. Hidden Power has very little utility save for Hidden Power Fire, the most effective way with dealing with Ferrothorn and Forretress. Return is the best way for Carracosta to hit Breloom and Virizon if you go with a physical set. Rest is a risky option, especially with no Sleep Talk, but it is the only way to heal any damage or status. Sturdy, while being greatly improved this generation, has little merit on Carracosta; though it could serve to provide an extra Shell Smash should the opponent switch out.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>Ferrothorn is the best counter to Carracosta, being able to take any attacks it dishes out aside from a risky Focus Blast or the very rare Hidden Power Fire. Otherwise, any bulky Grass-type, such as Tangrowth, can easily take any boosted physical attack. Carracosta is terribly slow; one boost provided by Shell Smash on a positive natured Carracosta is only large enough to outrun Base 113 Speed stat Pokemon, so faster sweepers such as Starmie or Jolteon, to name a few, can easily prey on the weaker Special Defense stat. Also, while Shell Smash does provide a sharp boost to its attacking prowess, it comes at the cost of cutting Carracosta's great Defense and already lackluster Special Defense, meaning that Carracosta should be extremely cautious against users of Fighting-type priority.priority from the likes of Fighting types will easily KO, most notably a boosted Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave.</p>

[Dream World]
<p>Carracosta's Dream World ability is Swift Swim, which has yet to be released. If ever released, it will be the superior choice on any offensive sets using Shell Smash. This can also free up any EVs in Speed to be put in another stat. However, note that currently, Drizzle and Swift Swim on the same team are banned, so one must adjust accordingly, either by bringing a Pokemon with the move Rain Dance or hope that their opponent runs Drizzle on their team; this latter event should not be counted on though.</p>
Lots of errors to pick out. Hopefully this check will clean up significantly.

Also, please consider jc104's changes as well, as some of them weren't implemented and are considerably good changes. If one of my changes contradicts jc's, please consider his over mine. I would like you, however to replace that entire paragraph in the OO with mine.
 

Ray Jay

"Jump first, ask questions later, oui oui!"
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Stamping Greed's check, also would like you to consider some of jc's changes as stated
 

religiousjedi

Old man.
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The past week was annoying in terms of real life, but rest assured, I've looked over jc and Greed's grammar checks and have been implementing them (slowly).

Edit: and now Done.
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
i know this is finished but carracosta is actually pretty awesome so i wanna review the shell smash set

OP said:
[SET]
name: Physical Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Waterfall / Aqua Jet
move 3: Stone Edge / Rock Slide
move 4: Earthquake
item: Life Orb / White Herb
ability: Solid Rock
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
First big problem I have with this is Solid Rock being used. Why? Sturdy is incredible and all but ensures you get off the Shell Smash if you pack a Spinner. Second problem is Ctrl + F Politoed. 0 Results. Carracosta should always be used with Politoed because after a Shell Smash, it makes Waterfall and Aqua Jet incredibly powerful. Without Drizzle, I find he often doesn't hit hard enough. Third problem is Earthquake forcing you to choose between Waterfall and Aqua Jet. The two water attacks should really be essential and Earthquake is doing a whole lot of nothing. Fourth problem is Adamant shouldn't even be slashed. Ever. Adamant Shell Smash hits 326, Jolly hits 358. So we're now gonna lose to Salamence, Celebi, Garchomp, Latios, Latias, and Thundurus will be able to T-Wave before you can Aqua Jet. Not worth the slight increase in power.

Here's what I've been testing and I've been pretty pleased with the results:

move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Aqua Jet
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Mystic Water / Lum Berry
ability: Sturdy
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

proposing this replace the current shell smash set.
 
Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave.</p>

[SET]
name: Physical Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Waterfall / Aqua Jet
move 3: Stone Edge / Rock Slide
move 4: Earthquake
item: Life Orb / White Herb
ability: Solid Rock
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
WHY?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?! Sturdy is so much better... sorry for being late but WOW.

move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Aqua Jet
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Mystic Water / Lum Berry
ability: Sturdy
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

proposing this replace the current shell smash set.
The 10% boost from mystic water is unworthy for a mention, even if I'm wrong and it's 20%, I'd rather replace it with a water gem, OHKO's skarm in rain with waterfall, or leftys.
 
Using Custom names is unfortunetly not allowed. I recommend replacing the current names with:

  • Shell Smash (Physical)
  • Curse
  • Shell Smash (Mixed)
  • Choice Band
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
The 10% boost from mystic water is unworthy for a mention, even if I'm wrong and it's 20%, I'd rather replace it with a water gem, OHKO's skarm in rain with waterfall, or leftys.
Mystic Water is indeed 20%. Perhaps it isn't the best item but I dislike the inconsistency of the Water Gem. If I could choose when it is used up then it would be interesting but as it is, I could only see it being wasted against something that would already be killed by the Water attack anyway, such as Excadrill etc. The Gems aren't great items in general, but they're best used to give you that extra bit of muscle to push through a counter and Water Gem really doesn't help Carracosta do that against anything.

Whilst on the subject of the gems though, I could certainly see Rock Gem being a very useful tool for surprise killing the odd defensive Water resist.

+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Rotom-W = 97% - 114% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/220+ Celebi = 78% - 92% (33% chance to OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Politoed = 97% - 114% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Jellicent = 95% - 112% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Vaporeon 91% - 107% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/0 Toxicroak = 82% - 97% (20% chance to OHKO after SR)

I'm gonna test that sometime.
 
Custom names are not allowed. Replace the current names with:

  • Shell Smash (Physical)
  • Curse
  • Shell Smash (Mixed)
  • Choice Band

Quality Control was fine with the names. I personally don't see the problems with them considering they're not like Britscor or Tinkerbell.
 
Quality Control was fine with the names. I personally don't see the problems with them considering they're not like Britscor or Tinkerbell.
These sets were named after the fact, and the community embraced those names long before they were used in the C&C analyses.
(Quoted from the Original Post, btw)

All I am saying is that the analysis shouldn't have custom names all the time, or else we would be flooded by them and things would get complicated. Keeping it simple is a nice perk in an analysis, after all. :P
 
Mystic Water is indeed 20%. Perhaps it isn't the best item but I dislike the inconsistency of the Water Gem. If I could choose when it is used up then it would be interesting but as it is, I could only see it being wasted against something that would already be killed by the Water attack anyway, such as Excadrill etc. The Gems aren't great items in general, but they're best used to give you that extra bit of muscle to push through a counter and Water Gem really doesn't help Carracosta do that against anything.

Whilst on the subject of the gems though, I could certainly see Rock Gem being a very useful tool for surprise killing the odd defensive Water resist.

+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Rotom-W = 97% - 114% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/220+ Celebi = 78% - 92% (33% chance to OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Politoed = 97% - 114% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Jellicent = 95% - 112% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/252+ Vaporeon 91% - 107% (OHKO after SR)
+2 Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 252/0 Toxicroak = 82% - 97% (20% chance to OHKO after SR)

I'm gonna test that sometime.
Rock gem maybe, but OHKO defensive skarm is a wonderful option, but 20% just isn't enough for me :s but I suppose if you were to use something else LO is out of the option, what is your view on sturdysmash? it gets a free set up and then rapes people :3 Thanks for the SR stats, now I know to run them =)
 
[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Carracosta is one of the few Pokemon to receive the blessings of Shell Smash, boosting doubling its great offenses and boosting its lackluster Speed to acceptable levels.
Still needs to be changed
 
This may sound gimmicky but how about a team mate with memento?

You can potentially pull off 2 shell smashes with sturdy if they don't attack and decide to switch instead because of the lowered attack and special-attack on their pokemon
 

Lee

@ Thick Club
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
I like how you acknowledged his dumb suggestion and yet totally ignored my tried-and-tested one...

Change the set!
 

religiousjedi

Old man.
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QC had no problem with the physical Shell Smash in the first place. In any case, I'm unsure on this, but since this is labeled done, shouldn't it be proposed to QC first?
 
I use a liechi berry in place of any other items along with sturdy as a lead. At least its +3 atk but sometimes I can pull off +5. A lonely nature also takes away from defence so you dont have to worry about being in the yellow and not activating the berry on the first hit.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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I use a liechi berry in place of any other items along with sturdy as a lead. At least its +3 atk but sometimes I can pull off +5. A lonely nature also takes away from defence so you dont have to worry about being in the yellow and not activating the berry on the first hit.
Leichi Berry is unreleased, so we can't really make this an option.
 

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