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Carracosta - UNRESERVED (QC 3/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Ningildo, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. Ningildo

    Ningildo

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    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    - THE MIGHTY CARRACOSTA.
    - Has Shell Smash along with good base 108 Attack and decent base 83 Special Attack, not to mention great STABs,
    walled by only a select few. Also has a nice movepool.
    - Two great abilities that aid setting up.
    - Can pair up with Feraligatr or Kabutops for a one-two combo.
    - Pretty slow, even after a Smash, although Aqua Jet alleviates this.
    - Weaknesses to Ground, Electric and Fighting are especially bad due the abundance of Nidoqueen and Fighting / Electric type scarfers.
    However, only Rotom-C is a common scarfer capable of not getting wrecked by a +2 Aqua Jet.
    - Overall, is pretty hard to stop when it gets a sweep going, as few teams carry a counter.

    [SET]

    name: Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Ice Beam / Waterfall
    move 4: Aqua Jet / Ice Beam
    item: Life Orb / White Herb
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    - Physical Shell Smash with a twist.
    - Shell Smash to boost offenses and to outpace Timid Sigilyph with Adamant and Jolly Scolipede with Jolly.
    - Stone Edge, even though it can miss at the most important times, is neccesary, as it allows you to KO Mixed Wall Slowking unconditionally 100% of the time with Adamant and 81.25% of the time with Jolly at +2. In other words, it hits like a truck, even to resists.
    - Aqua Jet picks off faster threats, such as Primeape, Manetric, Galvantula and the like. You need Stealth Rock to ensure Aqua Jet KO's against them, though, so get it up before a sweep. Note that a neutral Aqua Jet is weaker then a resisted Stone Edge, so if you need to hit something like Gallade, use Stone Edge.
    - The last slot is a toss up between Ice Beam and Waterfall. Ice Beam let's you OHKO Tangrowth at +2 all the time and also lets you avoid using Stone Edge in certain situations, such as against Lilligant and Sigilyph.
    - Waterfall on the other hand lets you bypass Rhydon and Steelix and hit many bulky, Water weak pokemon much harder. Steelix needs a layer of Spikes to get a good chance of being OHKO'd, however.
    - If you chose Waterfall, you can use Ice Beam over Aqua Jet to prevent Tangrowth from walling you, making it more of a threat to stall teams. However, this leaves you very prone to being revenge killed, so Thunder Wave support or other ways to get rid of faster pokemon should be used.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    - 4 Defense EV's opposed to HP as you'll then be able to attack 11 times due uninvested HP being 289. Besides that, the standard physical sweeper spread. Max Attack for more power and Max Speed to outpace as many things as possible.
    - Sturdy and Solid Rock both make setting up easier, but out of both, only Solid Rock users should use Life Orb if at all, due Sturdy leaving you at one HP when it activates. It also lessens the effect of the defense drops. Sturdy, on the other hand, ensures a set up turn most of the time, provided there are no entry hazards on the field. Thus, when using Sturdy, pack some Rapid Spin support.
    - White Herb can be used to take less damage from attacks thanks to it letting you ignore defense drops. Note that you can only Shell Smash once, so it should be used with heavy hazard support in order to secure a sweep. Sturdy is usable then if going this route.
    -Splash Plate can be used to preserve health, while still boosting Aqua Jet and Waterfall. The same goes for Stone Plate if you want power for Stone Edge. Sturdy is then again a possible ability. Ice Beam is still usable in this case, but you need Stealth Rock support to OHKO Tangrowth now. You also NEED to use Stone Edge against Lilligant and co to secure KO's.
    - Hidden Power Fire and Electric can be used for Ferroseed and Poliwrath respectively as they wall you otherwise, but serve little use outside of hitting them.
    - Earthquake can be used instead of any move but Stone Edge (or Shell Smash, obviously), as even though it hits only Magneton and Klinklang harder then it's other moves, they can easily take any hit otherwise and set up and strike back with an Electric STAB respectively, while forming the famous QuakeEdge combo. It should be noted that Drapion is OHKO'd by +2 Stone Edge and Qwilfish is as well with Stealth Rock and some residual damage (factoring in Intimidate).
    - Hidden Power Fire Lilligant is an amazing partner as it and Carracosta can set up on whatever tries KO'd the other. For example, Manetric now can't revenge Lilligant with Overheat without fear, as it will let Carracosta set up if it comes in. Prediction is key here, so keep that in mind.
    - Hazard support is, needless to say, mandatory. Ferroseed can do so as it resists Carracosta's Electric and Grass weaknesses, while also providing Thunder Wave support to let Carracosta outpace Scarfers. Uxie can do as well, resisting Fighting and being immune to Ground, while also being capable of giving Carracosta a set up turn with either Memento or Trick. By giving the opponent a Choice Scarf, an opening can be found soon enough for Carracosta to set up.
    - If not using Ferroseed, a pokemon that can deal with Choice Scarf Rotom-C is helpful. Even when using Ferroseed, it can be crippled with Trick, so this can still be useful. Most Fire types can handle Rotom-C, such as Entei. As mentioned, Lilligant is an amazing partner and here too it can help, as it outpaces Choice Scarf Rotom-C after a Quiver Dance, and then proceed to KO it with Hidden Power Fire.

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Aqua Jet
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Solid Rock
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    - A different take on Carracosta. Instead of Shell Smash sweeping, it focuses on supporting the team with Stealth Rock and tanking hits from walls such as Steelix and checking threats such as Aerodactyl.
    - This bulk, combined with Solid Rock, lets it have a 70%~ chance of survival against Jolly LO Horn Leech from Sawsbuck. Other notable attacks that you can survive include CB Aggron's Head Smash (57% of the time with Stealth Rock, 100% of the time without), Unburden Hitmonlee's Close Combat and Hi Jump Kick (100% of the time for both after Stealth Rock) and Aerodactyl's LO Earthquake (You get 2HKO'd 9% of the time after Stealth Rock)
    - Stealth Rock is the best hazard in the game. You can set it up on a forced switch.
    - Waterfall is your main STAB move and has great neutral coverage, while also hitting the likes of Steelix and Rhydon Super Effective.
    - Stone Edge is for more power and lets you hit various pokemon hard. It also lets you check Psyshock + Air Slash Sigilyph.
    - Aqua Jet gives Carracosta utility as a revenge killer against Fire types. Also useful to pick off weakened threats.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    - 252 HP ev's boosts overall bulk, 252 Atk ev's and an Adamant nature maximizes Attack to hit as hard as possible.
    - Can use the plates mentioned earlier, the Stone Plate and Splash Plate, to beef up Stone Edge's or Waterfall's and Aqua Jet's power respectively. In case of the Stone Plate, you can then 2HKO Mixed Wall Slowking after Stealth Rock with Stone Edge.
    -Type resist Berries are usable to ensure Stealth Rock is set up against certain pokemon, such as Nidoqueen. However, Leftovers will be missed dearly as many 3HKO's become 2HKO's.
    - Partners include Spike users, Wish passers and Heal Bell users, the latter two due Carracosta's lack of recovery and hate of status not named paralysis, along with the mandatory recommended pokemon that synergy well with bulky sets like this.
    - Ferroseed can cover Electric and Grass type attacks for Carracosta, while Carracosta shrugs off Fire type attacks with ease. In addition, Ferroseed can free up a move slot for another support or attack option over Stealth Rock. They stack a Fighting weakness, though, so carry a Ghost type for their immunity against said weakness, while spin blocking as well.
    - Tangrowth doesn't stack any weaknesses with Carracosta and can take Ground, Electric and Grass type moves for it. In return, Carracosta tanks Poison, Fire and Flying attacks. Note that both of them aren't exceptionally specially bulky, so carrying a Pokemon that is, such as Slowking, might help.
    - Clefable can provide both Wish and Heal Bell support and is specially bulky as well. However, it stacks a weakness with Carracosta.
    - Miltank is in the same boat, but provides an immunity to Grass while only providing Heal Bell support.

    [Other Options]
    - Rock Slide over Stone Edge for more Accuracy, but it lacks power.
    - Aqua Tail can be used over Waterfall to get a better chance of OHKOing Steelix after SR or Spikes, but can cause a game changing miss and the same can be achieved with Waterfall and Spikes (+ Stealth Rock) support.
    - Earthquake can hit Drapion and Qwilfish harder then other moves, but both are KO'd after a bit of residual damage.
    - Knock Off is an option to remove Leftovers from walls, making them more prone to 2HKO's, but it only has place on the Tank set.
    - Curse is another boosting move Carracosta has and is more suited to bulky offense teams. With it, it can slowly boost it's Attack while becoming impenetrable physically. The Speed loss is more or less irrelevant due Aqua Jet. Make sure to remove any and all Grass types before hand if using it.
    - Rain Dance is a option if you want to maintain Carracosta's bulk yet still outpace some faster foes, but White Herb Shell Smash outclasses it entirely barring Rain Dance's better initial power and ability to be done multiple times.
    - A Specially based Shell Smash set can mess up slower teams and surprise certain counters with Hydro Pump, Ice Beam and a Hidden Power (or even Ancientpower if you wish), but it can't bypass it's still low speed compared to scarfers this way.
    - A Choice Band set can be used as a wall breaker.
    - A Physically defensive set is certainly viable, as with it, not even the likes of CB Archeops can 2HKO with Earthquake. Partners mentioned in the Tank set can work as well here. As a fun fact, Terrakion's CB Close Combat doesn't OHKO, even after SR.

    [Checks and Counters]
    - Ferroseed and Poliwrath wall you unless you have Hidden Power Fire or Hidden Power Electric for them respectively.
    - Defensive Cofagrigus can wall any Carracosta and either Will-O-Wisp or, in the case of the Shell Smash version, Haze away it's boosts.
    - Quagsire walls nearly every boosting sweeper in existence and Carracosta is in the same boat unless it carries Hidden Power Grass for it.
    - Rotom-C (or any other Scarfed Grass type, albeit rare) can revenge due resistance to Aqua Jet. Has to avoid Stone Edge on the switch though.
    - Sceptile can outpace regardless of nature and can KO with a Special Grass STAB of choice. However, similar to Rotom-C, it has avoid Stone Edge on the switch.
    - Like Feraligatr, can only achieve certain KO's with SR on the field, such as against Manetric, Scyther, etc. Thus, if SR is off the field, they can barely survive +2 Aqua Jet and reply with a Super Effective hit.
    - If not carrying Waterfall, Steelix can take a Aqua Jet and phaze you out or attack with Earthquake. Rhydon can also take one and Earthquake in return. Note that Steelix's Earthquake won't ever OHKO even at -1 if Carracosta is above 67% due Solid Rock. Rhydon has a guaranteed OHKO after SR and one round of Life Orb recoil.
    - Without Ice Beam, Tangrowth can tank a Stone Edge and reply with a Grass move of choice or Sleep Powder.
    - Priority is not reliable to revenge it as Carracosta is quite bulky and most of it hits it neutrally save for Mach Punch. And even then, Hitmonchan's Life Orb, Iron Fist boosted Mach Punch can only do 70% max with Solid Rock factored in. It's a nice last ditch effort if the need arises, though.
    - If you lack any of these somehow, then prevent Carracosta from setting up to minimize damage done.
  2. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    I recommend also a support set, as with Solid Rock or Sturdy it can reliably set up Stealth Rock for the team, and tank hits if using Solid Rock.
  3. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Carracosta is strong, after reading this it seems like potential RU material.

    anyways, there are a few things i would like you to mention.

    1) fsr i think that jolly is the better nature on carracosta, but after talking with you on irc i feel like aqua jet makes up for the drop in speed, still an option, though.

    2) White Herb could possibly deserve a slash, but the sheer power of a +2 LO aqua jet makes up for it in my opinion.

    3) i agree with yonko7, a tank set is surely viable, especially with its newfound access to stealth rock. Add a set like this and QC will talk about it

    Carracosta @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge
    - Aqua Jet

    With Solid rock and far superior bulk, carracosta can make itself stand out when put up against kabutops, SE/waterfall+ajet is also a good way to take out at least one threat before going down.

    4) also mention that not using ice beam leaves you open to tangrowth, and mention in C&C that if you dont have a solid counter to carracosta, the best way to take it out is to stop it from setting up.

    5) add sceptile to C&C, it outspeeds carracosta no matter what nature its running and OHKOs with giga drain (it doesnt care about ajet either).

    after the utility set is added and discussed ill come back and approve this, but other than that you did a pretty good job :)
  4. Ningildo

    Ningildo

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    Changes made. Adding the Tank set was annoying to put up, because somehow it didn't get saved, forcing me to redo it.
  5. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    yeah, the Tank set looks very good! i think this is ready to be approved now

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved 1/3
  6. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Looks fine
    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  7. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Shell Smash

    [SET (COMMENTS)]
    • Don't list an ability under [SET]. Both Solid Rock and Sturdy are viable, so explain the benefits of each of them in AC.
    • Explain the EV spread in AC instead of [SET COMMENTS].
    • Make Ice Beam / Waterfall move 3 and Aqua Jet / Ice Beam move 4.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Mention Earthquake to hit Drapion and Klinklang etc. It's the EdgeQuake combo :p

    Tank

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • EV spread should be 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD (yes it matters)
    • Again, EV spread should be explained in AC

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Good :)

    [Other Options]
    • Curse
    • Rain Dance
    • Fully special Shell Smash set with Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Hidden Power, and maybe even Ancientpower
    • Knock Off
    • Don't mention a Tank set in OO anymore. Just say fully physically/specially defensive or something.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Physically defensive Cofagrigus (Haze + Will-O-Wisp)
    • Quagsire
    • Qwilfish (Twave, Haze)

    Make those changes and:

    [qc]3/3[/qc]

    Also [Other Options] and [Checks and Counters] should be like so (not capitalized :p). Follow this guide.
  8. Ningildo

    Ningildo

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    Everything updated according to suggested changes.
    Gonna rewrite this into analysis format.
  9. Husky

    Husky

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    Just wanted to say that the Tank set has no nature mentioned~
  10. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Post here and in the index thread if you want to take this over!

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