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Carvanha (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by iss, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    #7 :D
    [​IMG]
    http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/carvanha

    Status: Done

    Overview:

    -Carvanha hasn’t changed much since Gen IV
    -Still a glass cannon
    -Substitute is still its best set
    -Croagunk still destroys it

    [SET]
    name: SubVanha
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Crunch
    move 3: Aqua Jet
    move 4: Waterfall / Zen Headbutt
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe

    Set Comments:

    -2HKOes almost everything in Little Cup
    -Has 19 Attack and 16 Speed
    -Substitute protects Carvanha’s frail defenses and allows it to fire off attacks without fear of retribution
    -Crunch is a STAB attack that is Carvanha’s main source of power
    -Aqua Jet is very strong and is very useful in Little Cup
    -Waterfall is a backup STAB and can KO Pokemon like Gligar and Hippopotas

    Additional Comments:

    -Life Orb gives Carvanha a huge boost to its offense
    -Zen Headbutt can be used to kill Croagunk from behind a Substitute
    -EVs give max Attack and Speed
    -Carvanha runs Jolly since the output from 18 and 19 Attack is almost identical

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Crunch
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Aqua Jet
    move 4: Zen Headbutt / Hydro Pump
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly / Naive
    evs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe

    Set Comments:

    -Very powerful scarfer
    -Reaches 19 Attack and 24 Speed
    -Crunch hits hard against Pokemon like Gastly and Misdreavus
    -Waterfall hits things like SD Gligar for massive damage
    -Aqua Jet is used for revenge kills and faster scarfers
    -Zen Headbutt can be used to kill Croagunk on the switch

    Additional Comments:


    -Hydro Pump can be used to hit switch-ins hard
    -EVs max Attack and Speed
    -Jolly is used for the same reason
    -Use Naïve if you are using Hydro Pump- also take the EV

    Team Options:

    -Entry hazard support is helpful to assist Carvanha in its sweep
    -Gligar is helpful to take out Croagunk
    -Wynaut helps Croagunk set up and also can take out Croagunk

    Optional Changes:

    -Carvanha has access to Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Dark Pulse and can run a special or mixed set
    -Boiling Water could be used for the burn chance but Carvanha is better off beating stuff down
    -Agility could be used for a sweeping set

    Counters:

    -If Carvanha does not have a Substitute, faster Pokemon that can take an Aqua Jet can easily kill it
    -Croagunk can take down Carvanha if Croagunk lacks a Substitute or Zen Headbutt
    -The Scarf set is destroyed by faster Scarfers and Croagunk

    Dream World:

    -Speed Boost is amazing for Carvanha- it can Protect once and then outspeed most of Little Cup. Carvanha might even be broken with Speed Boost.
  2. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    This is done.
  3. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    None of the sets have abilities. Since speed boost has been released, shouldn't that be the ability?
  4. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Vanha isn't bad as a lead. Speed Boost+Protect+AJ+Crunch+ZHB lets you get past a lot of stuff. Rough Skin works too.

    Vanha seems like it'd have problems with Zuruggu. Without Waterfall. More than other fighting types.
  5. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Speed Boost Carvanha has been released already, so the DW section can be removed and Speed Boost made the standard ability on most sets.
  6. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    How is Tesshiido not even mentioned as a counter. Resists Water/Dark and rapes all sets with Bullet Seed, which even brakes SubVanna's sub.



    wut
  7. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Should be mentioned in the write-up that Zen Headbutt is incompatible with Speed Boost, but Croagunk will be 2HKOed by Adamant Crunch.
  8. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    I don't really think you should mention that Croagunk is 2HKOed by Adamant Crunch cause...Croagunk @ Life Orb (188 EVs, Neutral Nature) Vacuum Wave vs Carvanha @ Life Orb (0/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 114.2 - 142.8% (24 - 30 HP). Even with the lowest possible damage roll, it's a more than solid OHKO. Carvanha can't take Croagunk, Zen Headbutt or not, as it can't even get an attack down due to Vacuum Wave having +1 priority (and Carvahna's only priority attack can't touch Dry Skin Croagunk.)
  9. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Yes, but Croagunk can't switch into a Crunch, which is the point I'm trying to make. That, and that as long as you hit Croagunk once with Crunch on the switch-in, if that's their only counter to Carvanha then you could finish off the team with it.
  10. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    Yes it can. It can switch into Crunch, take it, then OHKO with priority. Plus, you can always lure a Water-type attack with good prediction. Not trying to start an arguement, but Croagunk is a 100% solid counter to Carvanha, as long as you have any prediction at all.
  11. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
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    I have solid experience with Carvanha so I'll put my two cents into this argument.

    1. Croagunk beats Carvanha 100% of the time if Carvanha isn't running Return/Frustration or ZHB.
    2. Even if Carvanha does have Substitute but does not run ZHB, Croagunk still wins (assuming Carvanha stays in) because of priority in Vacuum Wave.

    EDIT: someone should get Vader in on this.
  12. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    What about HP Psychic? Carvanha has a very usable SpA, and I'm sure it would kill even with Adamant.

    It isn't very useful on other fighting-types, though...
  13. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    The thing with keeping your sub though is Carvanha is weak to both U-turn and Volt Change (although it doesn't matter; it could resist them and still lose its subs) so they can just U-turn / Volt Change to Croagunk to take the Waterfall / Crunch / Not ZHB and rape you with VW.
  14. BlocksRcool

    BlocksRcool

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    Minor nitpick, but you say that Vanha hits 19 attack on most of the sets despite running a speed boosting nature (which results in 18 attack).
  15. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    The thing about doing that is that Carvanha can Protect on scarfers to get to +2, as well as scout what they're planning to do, as well as stall out another turn of sandstorm/hail/tspikes. Pokemon like Gligar and Chinchou get killed by Waterfall and Crunch, before they can even attack.

    Of course, mindgames ensue about if they're going to switch to Croagunk or not.

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