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Catharsis

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Milos, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    356
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]



    Introduction

    So here goes. In the midst of this weather madness that seems to be dominating the metagame, I too was propelled into making a team. I tried out numerous offensive rain teams to moderate success, but eventually scrapped them in favor of other types of weather. I tried out a hail team, seeing as how it is the anti-metagame weather, but found the team to be too frail and oftentimes getting dominated by other types of weather. This drew me to try out sun. For a while, I was satisfied with it, it had the strongest sweepers, and moreover Dugtrio was all you needed to dispose of opposing Heatran and other fire-types. Then user Lavos Spawn created that infamous sun team which we all love(and hate) and the ladder was flooded with replicas or teams close to it. I tried doing my own thing, creating a team that would succeed in spite of this new rise of sun teams. Dugtrio + Genesect + Rain became my primary formula, and with that idea I proceeded to create this team. I changed the initial core of the team a bit, but it has been beneficial in the long run. Oh, and if you're wondering about the team name, its simply because Joey Bada$$ is awesome. Enough with the chit chat, and onto the team:


    Closer Look

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Drizzle
    Nature: Modest (+SpA,-Atk)
    EVs: 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 6 HP

    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Focus Blast
    -Toxic

    Its adorable isn't it? Anyway, SpecsToed was really the only way to go, in my opinion. I didn't require a fast scarfer since I already had Genesect filling that role, and I figured a defensive set would slow my momentum. I feel like this toed is the best way to win the weather war, simply because no Tyranitar or Ninetales likes taking a specs Surf, not in sunlight, not in sand, never. Surf under the rain has the power to OHKO most steel types (2HKO for Forry and Skarmory, since they pack Sturdy), and severely dent whatever is switching in. Starmie, Rotom-W, even Tentacruel are dented in one way or another by this little guy. Hitting Rotom-W on the switch is especially useful, because judging by how much damage it takes, I can determine whether it is an offensive or defensive variant. Ice Beam was chosen to to manhandle the expected the dragon or grass type switch-in, and sometimes letting me 3HKO Ferrothorns that don't invest in SpD. Focus Blast was actually chosen specifically for Ferrothorn, since they love switching in on toed and in many occasions its a 2HKO, which is nice since it then allows to Vaporeon to sweep more effectively. As for the last moveslot, it was a toss up between some kind of hidden power or a support move, but in the end I chose Toxic. Gastrodon and Jellicent pretty much wall me otherwise, and poisoning them early is always neat, considering that I need them out of the way for a Vaporeon sweep later in the match.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Relaxed (+Def,-Spe)
    EVs: 248 HP/ 176 Def/ 84 SpD

    -Stealth Rock
    -Rapid Spin
    -Volt Switch
    -Gyro Ball

    Ah, good ol' Forry. My team needed a Stealth Rock user, and since he's basically the only one that can use it (Landorus is a little busy), I decided its on him. Forretress is the only defensive Pokemon on the team, and he's my only answer to Outrages from the likes of CB Nite and ScarfMence. The fact that rain halves the damage of Fire attacks is another boon for using Forretress, since I need to preserve him in cases where my opponent is laying down Spikes or simply just to get rid of Stealth Rock for Thunderus-T. Volt Switch, although relatively harmless to things that aren't weak to it, makes Forretress a good pivot to bring out one of my offensive Pokemon. Its nice to catch a Jellicent on the switch expecting me to use Rapid Spin, only to pass the baton to Thunderus-T to wreak havoc. I opted for Leftovers> Shed Shell, seeing as how Magnezone doesn't trouble me much, because Volt Switch lets me escape easily(HP Fire still hurts though). A relaxed nature means that Forretress has a boosted Defense, and more importantly, a boosted Gyro Ball. Fast Pokemon (who am I kidding, every Pokemon is fast compared to Forry) like Tornadus-T, DDNite and Jolteon don't enjoy taking a Gyro Ball to the gut, and much less do Mamoswine and Terrakion. A lot of times I simply let Forretress do its job which is to set up Stealth Rock, and if I see that he won't be really needed this game, I use him as death fodder.

    [​IMG]
    Thunderus-T @ Life Orb
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    Nature: Timid (+Spe,-Atk)
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe

    -Nasty Plot
    -Thunder
    -Focus Blast
    -Hidden Power [Ice]

    You see that picture? Thats what he is. A fucking monster. Seriously, after just one Nasty Plot boost coming off from 145 base SpA, there's very few things that can take a hit and live to tell the tale. The fat blobs Chansey and Blissey are dealt with one on one. A +2 Focus Blast will be able to 2HKO most versions of Blissey, and a combination of Focus Blast, Thunder and prior damage will handle Chansey. Once they're out of the way, the rest of the team has a field day. In a way, Thunderus-T softens up or destroys its counters to clear a path for the rest of the team to rampage through. Thunder is the number one move you'll be spamming, and because of the rainy forecast, it will never miss. Focus Blast just in case a silly Tyranitar tries to stop your show early, or for the fat bitches mentioned above. Hidden Power [Ice] is used for the things you can't hit super effectively with Thunder and FB, mainly Gliscor, Hippowdon, Lati@s, Breloom, and other grass types. Volt Absorb is pretty useful, seeing as how I have 2 Pokemon who suffer from electric attacks, which make switching Thunderus-T into a Thunderbolt/Thunder relatively easy. The health regained is helpful to keep Thunderus-T alive LO recoil and SR damage (assuming it as not been spun away).

    [​IMG]
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Download
    Nature: Hasty(+Spe,-Def)
    EVs: 92 Atk/ 252 SpA/ 164 Spe

    -U-turn
    -Thunder
    -Ice Beam
    -Flamethrower

    My one and only revenge killer. Genesect creates offensive momentum simply from its presence. A combination of U-turn and its array of attacks is enough to keep my opponent second-guessing whether it should switch in a counter or stay in. The boost to Atk or SpA from Download is really helpful, it sometimes lets Genesect nab extra kills it otherwise wouldn't. A +1 U-turn hurts swiftly KOs Starmie, the Latis, Hydreigon and heavily dents Tyranitar and the likes. Thunder was given the nod over Thunderbolt because the rain said so. It helps me to handle Tornadus-T and other flying types more easily, and the paralysis chance is an added bonus. Ice Beam to dismantle any dragon attempting to set up, including DDnite, Haxorus, and it lets me revenge kill ScarfMence locked in on Outrage. Flamethrower looks odd considering this is a rain team, but for the most part it helps to fry 4x weak Pokemon such as Ferrothorn (who resists all my other moves otherwise), Scizor, Forretress, and opposing Genesect if I catch them on the switch expecting a U-turn. The given EVs were copied straight from Lavos and his Genesect. Genesect has a unique speed tier so there is really no need to invest fully in Spe. It gives more oomph to his U-turns while retaining the SpA power, and since Reuniclus is a big threat for this team, it helps in wearing it down or downright KOing it after an Atk boost from Download. I am sometimes forced to use Genesect to sponge Draco Meteors, Ice Beams, and Thunderbolts, so Hasty is chosen over Naive.

    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    Nature: Bold (+Def,-Atk)
    EVs: 248 HP/ 220 Def/ 40 Spe

    -Work Up
    -Scald
    -Ice Beam
    -Rest

    Work Up Vaporeon is something RARELY seen in today's metagame, but its extremely effective. The rain is absolutely necessary in order for Vaporeon to sweep. Rest + Hydration means that Vaporeon cannot be taken down through Toxic stalling, accumulation of burn damage, and if for some odd reason you want to paralyze Vaporeon, that isn't going to work either. Scald under the rain becomes very powerful after a couple of Work Up boosts, and has that extra ability to burn my opponents. Not only does this help Vaporeon take down its opponents faster, it can be used to cripple physical attackers. Combined with a Bold nature and investment in Defense, Vaporeon can practically wall any physical attacker en route to sweeping. Ice Beam for dragons and grass types, mainly used if there is a stray Gastrodon running around to be able to weaken it. Really underrated threat, and I suggest people start to use it more, it won't let you down.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sheer Force
    Nature: Timid(+Spe,-Atk)
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe

    -Rock Polish
    -Earth Power
    -Focus Blast
    -Hidden Power [Ice]

    The late-game cleanup, and my answer to sun teams. I initially had Dugtrio in this spot, but I found him to be too frail and realized he had to go. I wanted to retain an electric immunity, however, so I tested out different ground types until coming across this gem. After a Rock Polish, not even Venusaur in the sun can outspeed me, meaning I am free to start firing off boosted Earth Powers. Thanks to Sheer Force, I get boosted to abuse Landorus' 115 SpA stat while firing off Earth Powers with absolutely no drawbacks, including an immunity to Life Orb recoil. Hidden Power [Ice] is used to hit Gliscor, other Landorus, Thunderus, and Tornadus, as well as hitting the dragons hard. The choice between Focus Blast and Psychic was a tough one for me, simply because with Psychic I can reliably kill Venusaur in one shot, and without it I am forced to hope that it is in range for Earth Power to KO. Focus Blast was chosen, however, because it lets me comfortably hit BalloonTran, Bronzong, Skarmory, and other threats. The accuracy is the only thing that sucks about it, Focus Blast LOVES to miss when the game is on the line. Anyway, RP Lando should see more usage with the increased usage of Lavos sun teams running around.

    Notable Threats:

    Reuniclus: Trick Room is a bit difficult, considering I don't have priority moves with which to hit Reuniclus, but it can be played around to stall out the turns TR is in place. Calm Mind Reuniclus, however, can reliably beat me if Genesect is gone/weakened or if my Pokemon don't hit it fast enough. Thunderus-T can usually end its sweep early with a couple of +2 Thunders, and Genesect can clean it up with U-turn if Thunderus-T goes down. Very legitimate threat.

    Tornadus-T: Specs versions will always net a kill. Genesect can revenge kill it, but nothing on my team likes switching in on Hurricanes. LO versions are even tougher to play against, especially if they pack HP Ice to eliminate Thunderus-T/Landorus.

    SD TechniLoom: The reason that Thunderus-T was chosen over, say, Jolteon or other another electric type. Mach Punch heavily dents most of my team, and Spore isn't fun either. If Landorus/Thunderus-T are weakened, it can very easily sweep me.

    Scarf Keldeo: Not only does it outspeed Genesect, meaning I can't revenge kill it, it also gets a boost to its Hydro Pump/Surf from my own rain. I usually have to switch Politoed or Vaporeon to tank the resisted hit, and if stuck on Sacred Sword I can handle it with Thunderus-T. CM versions are also tough to play around, I need either Politoed or Vaporeon to weaken it as much as possible, then try to revenge kill it with Genesect. As you can see, not quite the best strategy.

    Export to Text

    Code:
    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 6 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Toxic
    
    Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    
    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - U-turn
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    - Flamethrower
    
    Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Spd / 6 HP / 252 SAtk
    Hasty Nature
    - Rock Polish
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast
    
    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Work Up
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Ice Beam
    
    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Volt Switch
    - Gyro Ball
    Conclusion:

    So there it is. This team has been fun to use, but I think its time to put your minds to work to helping improve it. I attained a ranking of ~1850 on PS! under the alt Cali Ras Capone with a win loss of about 52-10, but since then it has fallen back a bit, with losses coming from overprediction, hax, and bad play on my part, among other things. I don't usually make RMTs since I feel like a lot of people make them to just inflate their egos, but I liked this team enough and I was in the mood so why not. Anyway, hope you guys read through everything and let me know where I can improve it. Rate/Hate/Steal....just do ya thing.

    :toast::toast::toast::toast:
  2. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,893
    Hi,

    very nice team you've got- although your offenses are a bit unbalanced, your coverage and 'sheer force' more than make up for it. There are not many single pokemon that can really solidly wall your whole team- though, I must point out Jirachi as a problem, whose typing allows it to take hits from your numerous special attackers all day.

    The problem I'm noticing is this- you don't have enough widespread typing coverage- you only have moves from 8 different types- less than half the total amount, meaning your coverage will be lacking. Not only is it lacking- but also very redundant. You have 5 pokemon with Ice type moves- a lot more than necessary. After that, you have fighting and electric coverage- but lo and behold, all 3 fighting type moves are Focus Blast! Both of your offensive electric attacks are both Thunder! What does this mean? Out of rain, and even in it, you will have a hard time overcoming pokemon like Blissey, Jirachi, or Tyranitar. Just face it- you're going to miss, 1, 2, 25 times each match, and that's obviously not good.

    I think Landorus is out of place here. Thundurus covers a lot of what it does- it's HP Ice hits harder; its Focus Blast and Thunder as well after Nasty Plot. It's slower than Landorus after Agility, but you have Genesect to handle faster threats. To help you not only hit with a bit more variety but also deal better damage to Calm Minders and special walls, I suggest you switch your current Landorus with Rock Polish Landorus-T.

    Landorus-T @ Life Orb
    Adamant nature, 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Rock Polish / Earthquake / Stone Edge / U-Turn

    Landorus-T fills quite a lot of wholes here- it allows you to have an ok switch in to Breloom, as well as a way to hit Specially Defensive pokemon like Jirachi / Ttar hard. Its Stone Edge also does one very valuable thing- it nails Volcorona, who after just a QD or two walls your whole team. Seriously, nothing bar Politoed can OHKO it- so having some added precaution will always help. After a Rock Polish, this Landorus is almost as fast as your Landorus- and hits a bit harder with Stone Edge and U-Turn as well. It can act as a bulky pivot too- easily coming in on pokemon like CB Scizor and quickly U-Turning out or Rock Polishing for a sweep. EQ simply demolishes Tyranitar and SpDef Jirachi- while dealing a considerable chunk to Blissey as well. Landorus-T also has excellent synergy with the rest of the team- it lures in Gliscor, Skarmory, and Forretress, and U-Turns out to Thundurus for a sweep.

    Cool team, I hope I helped!
  3. IceKold

    IceKold

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Hey nice team! I have but one suggestion. I'd suggest a BulkyToed over Specs Toed. His speed stat is rather low, leaving him to easily be picked off by faster threats. Also, the Specs make Toxic rather ineffective on him. Plus, when it comes to weather wars, BulkyToed is a total Tank. He can take hit after hit and with Leftovers, he can keep on swinging. While he does lose some of his ability to smash stuff, he will be able to provide Rain numerous times generally, and from the looks of your team, you definitely benefit from the rain. Here's a set:
    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Surf
    - Toxic
    - Ice Beam
    - Perish Song

    This set gives him good all around bulk and can catch a few guys buy surprise. He only takes 45.3% - 53.4% damage from Max Attack Tyranitar! He even survives every non-boosted Outrage at max HP.

    Anyways, BulkyToed can do wonders when you need him to. He still can hit hard, take plenty of hits, and provide excellent support with Toxic and Perish Song (a necessity IMO). Try it if you like!

    Good luck:)
  4. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    356
    When I see a Jirachi, I make sure to keep Landorus healthy to be able to pose a threat to it. Repeated U-turns and Thunder from Thunderus is also my only way of dealing with it. I like that Landorus-T set. Although it won't be able to outspeed Venusaur in the sun, it makes sweeping for my other Pokemon easier. I'll have to try it out! Btw, Tyranitar is a minimal threat for this team, I can usually predict it switching in and nail it with the appropriate move, but you're right about the type coverage thing.

    I was actually considering this change today after laddering a bit, although Scald > Surf, for the burn on Ferro. Thanks for the suggestion, definitely testing it out.
  5. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    510
    Hi there,

    Solid offensive Rain Team here, hitting hard with your offensive mons while Forretress and Politoed supporting them nicely. One thing I did notice was your team did seem overly offensive, and Forretress heavily slows down your momentum. This is kind of annoying on an offensive team such as this, as you really don't want to be switching into your team mates who cannot take a hit. While I realize what Forretress does for your team, I think there is a Pokemon who can do the job better. I think Starmie would be a much better fit over your current Forretress. Just like Forretress, Starmie can utilize Rapid Spin very effectively, while also mitigating your weakness against Keldeo and Breloom, while heavily pressuring Reuniclus to the point where it cannot set up successfully. In Forretress vs Reuniclus situations, your opponent is guaranteed a free Calm Mind / Trick Room which means trouble for your team. In Rain, Starmie can 2HKO Reuniclus often deterring it from continuously setting up. Starmie also greatly keeps the momentum in your favour, forcing a lot of switches and being able to Spin makes it a great addition to your team. While you lose the ability to beat Dragons with Forretress, Starmie can Ice Beam them, and Dragons in general don't look like much of a problem when you have Genesect with Ice Beam and Thundurus-T with Hidden Power [Ice].

    If you choose to go with this change, you will find that your lack of Stealth Rock on your team will leave you open to threats such as DD Dragonite and Scarf Salamence. Either of which can continually switch in and start hitting stuff hard thanks to your lack of a Steel resist (should you replace Forretress). Vaporeon can check these very well, but Dragonite is guaranteed a free Dragon Dance when you have no Stealth Rock up. To help with this, I think you should definitely try out Stealth Rock > Rock Polish on Landorus. Landorus with it's fantastic offensive presence forces a lot of switches, and as a result finds many easy opportunities to set up Stealth Rock on incoming walls hoping to stop Landorus. The main drawback here is your lack of a late game sweeper, which is what I think I can also help you with.

    If you choose to go with this change, you will lose your late game sweeper and a great asset against Sun Teams. Landorus can easily plow through common variations of Sun Teams thanks to it's amazing movepool and stats, but loses against faster Chlorophyll sweepers when it lacks Rock Polish. While you may think this is a bad thing, I feel like there is a little inefficiency in one of your sets. While Nasty Plot Thundurus-T is ideal for wrecking Stall teams, I doubt you have much trouble with them thanks to the offensive nature of your team and the fact you have everything you need to break through defensive cores while being able to Spin away hazards. IMO, Nasty Plot Thundurus-T is just extra power that isn't needed, and Thundurus-T is too slow to make good use of it's offensive power. I feel like changing your set to an Agility Thundurus-T would make much better use of it, while also providing you with an additional late game sweeper which performs greatly against Sun Teams. This set is one of mine I made, outspeeding everything up to 220 Spe Haxorus, which also outspeeding every Chlorophyll abuser after an Agility. The extra bulk is nice here, as there's really no need to go Max Speed when there are no other relevant benchmarks you need to hit.

    Additionally, if Agility Thundurus-T does really not appeal to you, then Scarf Politoed > your current Politoed still provides you with a great revenge killer, additional Dragon check and great against Sun.

    Good luck!

    Sets (open)
    Thundurus-T (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast
    - Agility

    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin
  6. Jirachee

    Jirachee Nightfall
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,524
    Hi

    This is a pretty cool team, that Landorus set is boss and, even though it's really not original, I can't help but love a team that uses Choice Specs Politoed n_n. Whatever. I think that Rotom-W and Life Orb Starmie are going to be two huge threats to this team. As they are both Water typed, they can abuse your own weather at their advantage and slam pretty much everything on your team with boosted Hydro Pumps, with the exception, of course, of Vaporeon and Politoed. However, what makes both Rotom-W and Starmie threats to your team whereas other Water types are perhaps less dangerous is their access to Electric typed coverage, which hits them for Super Effective damage. Both Politoed and Vaporeon are very slow, especially when compared to Starmie, which means that they'll have to take both the Hydro Pump and the following Thunderbolt, which will hurt them horribly. While you can certainly revenge kill Starmie with Genesect, keep in mind that Starmie doesn't need any boost to do that much damage to your team, so whenever it comes back you're in for trouble again. Rotom-W is slower than both Thundurus-T and Landorus, but they also have a lot of trouble getting in since Hydro Pump insta kills them. To fix that weakness, perhaps you should run Gastrodon instead of Vaporeon. While Gastrodon's stats are inferior to Vaporeon's it gets a nifty Electric immunity while keeping the Water resist (immunity in Gastrodon's case) which makes it a great switch in to both Rotom-W and Starmie. Starmie's Ice Beam doesn't hurt Gastrodon that much either so you shouldn't have issues switching into it, as most carry Hydro Pump / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Rapid Spin. Rotom-W rarely runs Hidden Power Grass but still make sure to scout a bit for it.

    I think that you should run Bug Buzz instead of Flamethrower on Genesect. Flamethrower is an amazing move when you don't have Rain to half its power, however, you do have it. All the Pokemon you mentioned are more than easy set up fodder for Thundurus-T so you don't need to beat them with Genesect, as simply U-turning out of them to Thundurus-T will grant you a Nasty Plot that could be enough to win against weakened teams. Bug Buzz, on the other hand, is a reliable STAB move for Genesect which allows it to sweep late game, dealing large amounts of damage even to stuff that resist it. It is Genesect's most powerful attack in Rain, so I'd give it a shot.

    Anyway that's pretty much it, I like your team n_n. Here's the set you should use:
    Gastrodon (open)

    [​IMG]
    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Storm Drain
    Calm
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    ~Earth Power
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Toxic
    ~Recover


    Good luck!
  7. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude otters are cute imo
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,169
    Hey Milos nice looking rain team!

    Ok looking at your team the lack of physical offense concerns me bit. This lets Chansey and Blissey wall pretty much your whole team. You did mention that Nasty Plot Thunderous-T beats Chansey and Blissey but i don't necassariliy agree on you there. After all to beat Blissey/Chansey Thunderous-T must already be a +2 predct Blissey to switch in and use Focus Blast twice without missing while also having Stealth Rock up. This scenario is very unlikely beacuse Blissey and Chansey would probally be in the field before Thunderous-T because they wall pretty much your whole team and even if they aren't any good player that uses them will switch them in as soon as they see your Thunderous-T come in. Vaporeon seems to me as the weakest link on the team beacause its spot for a bulky set up sweeper can me fufilled much better with Sub+CM Jirachi>Vaporeon This Jirachi set still provides your team with a bulky sweeper and one that can abuse rain with Thunder but also a pokemon that can beat Chansey/Blissey one on one due to him having 101 Hp Substitutes and Psyshock to effectivly hit Chansey and Blissey on their weaker defense. This set is also one of the greatest counters to Tornadus-T because he can set up in his face and resist Hurricane while also being able to beat Breloom by blocking Spore with Substitute and having Psyshock. He also helps against your Choice Scarf Thunderous-T weakness because Thunderous-T can be pretty annoying hitting 4 members of your team super effectivly with just Thunder and Hidden Power [Ice].

    Another probelm i see looking at your team is its inability to take powerful Water-Type attacks from the opponents pokemon. Especially with Vaporeon gone Politoed is your only Water-Type resists amd with no defensive investment it will get murdered after a few Hydro Pumps from Rotom-W or a Starmie. I also agree with Jimbon in that Forretress slows down your team alot due to your teams offensive nature. So i suggest Specially Defensive Celebi>Forretress Celebi provides your team with an essential Water-Type resist while also being specially bulky this helps him to take on apposing rain teams and threaten with Leaf Storm. He is also a good supplier of Stealth Rock just like Forretress and Recover keeps him nice and healthy. He also helps your team greatly against Choice Band Terrakion and the previously mentioned Breloom who can tear your team apart otherwise Terrakion will be unable to really switch in because both of Celebi's stabs destroy it while Celebi is know as one of the best Breloom counters because it resists his stabs has Natural Cure to negate Spore upon switching and he can beat Breloom with stab Psychic.

    good luck with the team i hope i helped!

    Sets
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers | Serene Grace
    Timid | 252 Hp / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Calm Mind | Substitute | Thunder | Psyshock
    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers | Natural Cure
    Calm | 252 Hp / 4 SpA / 252 Sp Def
    Leaf Storm / Recover / Psyshic / Stealth Rock

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide


    Sub+CM Jirachi--->Vaporeon

    Specially Defensive Celebi--->Forretress



    ~Superpowerdude
  8. Milos

    Milos

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    356
    Jimbon: Thank you for the rate. I think adding Starmie would be detrimental to the team, as it adds another electric weakness. Rock Polish on Lando is kinda the crux on the set...so I'm iffy about removing it.

    Jirachi: I have changed Flamethrower to Bug Buzz like you suggested. And I changed Vaporeon to Gastrodon. However, upon testing it, it left my team without a sure fire sweeper. So...

    Superpowerdude: I changed Gastrodon to your suggested SubCM rachi and so far its been working well. Currently testing out that specially defensive Celebi. I'll let you know how it does after a bit of testing.

    Thanks for the rates :toast:

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