ORAS OU Cavs > Raptors. Also Stall.

Don't you love what the current meta has done to stall teams? Hamstringing us into that stupid little Espeon-wannabe bouncing hazards and the like all over the place? Good lord I thought I hated Hoopa but there's just 0 fun in stall when you have to use that same 5 mon core.

My objective has been to create a stall team that is as good as or better than a sable team since those stalls became popular, and now that I'm done with college for a week I decided to actually start working on it in full. Like any team, it isn't perfect but it's definitely a good stall that's going to have completely different mons beating it from sable teams.

Alright, team building process. No pictures because this isn't a preschool (go to the OU room if you want that atmosphere. We got the stench, the stressed adults wishing they didn't work there, and all the whining you can ever want).
So I had been working for months with a Rhyperior+Grass core. Actually a bit too slowly because when I returned, ZardX was so dead and gone you might call him Robin Williams. The core generally goes Rhy+Tang/Ches+water that takes scizor. So I started Rhy+Tang+Quag, since I had literally used Chesnaught in 10 of my last 11 defensive teams. The issue is, that's SUPPOSED to be it for a physical core and in theory you go special sided/mixed wall after. Well in the current meta, this core lets MHera, MMedi through (It is enough for Mlop though).

So generally, you add Doublade when you come to MHera/MMedi weaks and only have one slot. And Gard sucks to deal with so no harm/no foul. The issue with this specific core is you're too EQ weak and about to start a special side core. I tried Chansey/Spdef skarm but it wasn't even near worth because by that point skarm covered nothing that doublade and chansey couldn't take. You need one of Zapdos/Mandibuzz/Defensive Latias/Skarmory for hazard clearing most of the time on stall unless you're going off-meta with Hitmontop/Claydol/BulkyStarmie/Tenta.

So the team was too ground weak, I couldn't add a spinner because Claydol is garbage unless Terrakion and Landorus-t are the only mons in existence, and Zapdos really doesn't fit. It was kinda obvious that Skarmory was the best choice even in this situation, but as a physical mon. Meaning Rhyperior had to go. Considered throwing doublade out but then you're back to the same weaknesses as before.

So five man team: Doublade, Skarmory, Chansey, Tangrowth, Quagsire. I wanted an offensive threat because this team itself really didn't do much to sable at large. Switch Blissey for Chansey, give some CM+special move and now he can't stay in forever. Have a mega, need a sweeper. Gyara couldn't sweep really well for me (since I already didn't have much for keldeo). He needed +2 to really get through teams, which is a lot of pressure this team doesn't generate to get him 2 free turns. I ended up using Mega altaria since I wanted another way to threaten Sable stall and she functions well at +1. And yeah, here we are.


Alright. I wanted to put a ship name for this team but I also wanted to trigger Sharpteeth and his maple syrup fellows. Sacrifices in the name of sports, just ask rdjacobian about all the (fruitless) sacrifices Michigan has made to try and beat OSU.



Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 216 Def / 48 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain

- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Tangrowth is an amazing physical wall probably on the same level of Slowbro in terms of sheer up-front bulk. While I don't like/use synth sets for stand-in recovery, I don't think it's terribly needed. HP Fire is nearly solely for Ferrothorn, who is a huge pain in the ass for the rest of the team. Knock off is the most spammable move, though. Just trying to knock off Torn-t's life orb, Chomp/Ferro's RH/Lefties, or tran's lefties. It also serves as a decent scouting tool for stuff you otherwise you would be worried about (I guess if I ever hit anything but LOs off Kyubs I might consider this a real savior). Anyways I considered EQ but the fact that the opponent has to manually give me a tran switchin was not appetizing. I don't outspeed tran so it just wasn't really worth .

Anyways main stab being special side is a nice adaptation specifically for rotom-w. Rotom doesn't normally last terribly long vs this team simply because I have a lot of lower-than-usual HP mons outside blissey, who is also a CM user. Sleep powder is beautiful in disabling opponent's switchins like ZardX/Y or Thundy.


Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Pursuit
- Rest

So I heard some other people have picked up Doublade once or twice. The fact that it never caught on as hard as I believed after Aegi's ban is probably mostly due to it competing with Sableye-M on a ghost spot and not being a spin-blocker. The second part is largely irrelevant to me. If they have starmie for a spinner, that's fine. If it's excadrill, he's got no threat to my team and I'll get hazards up again eventually (my exca counter carries hazards anyways).

So the beauty of Doublade is in being a better defensive aegislash. Remember the mons that drew to OU after Aegi's ban? Yeah, the three wall/stall breakers in Gard-M, Hera-M, Medi-M. That's the main reason you take Doublade. However, Pursuit trapping a latios to death with no threat is nice. Starmie, Celebi and Jirachi, also coming to OU after Aegi's ban, have really no business vs Doublade. Granted, I prefer to counter Blissey for the first two (natural cure sucks, except when it's my bliss or altaria) but options are nice.

Other than that, this is a really nice mon to have for a second counter to Pinsir if Skarmory has other things to deal with, my secondary clefable check if Blissey has another issue to take on. Lastly, if I'm suspecting a superpower set from a Thunudurus-i or Tornadus-T, doublade actually handles both well. As long as he doesn't have another threat to take care of, I don't even mind playing aggro and risking a knock off.



(Really? I had to make this? How does no one else think this is the most American thing you've ever see? Literally a fighter jet pokemon...)

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost

- Stealth Rock
- Brave Bird

We know what Skarm does. He's in nearly all RMT stalls and for good reason. His typing remains super good and his access to defog is basically invaluable. Unless you enjoy spinner tentacruel. Anyways, I had to run SR Skarm because I don't have space on Blissey. Meaning yeah I've seen better sets but counter was only for boosting threats (Dnite/Scizor mainly) and I have quagsire.

Anyways most of the time Skarm on this team isn't even the primary or secondary physical wall. I let Quag and Tangrowth do most of leg work so skarm can stay around for late game threats and hazard control. The adaptation isn't terribly important but it makes the team more solid vs hazards since only a resist (doublade too) and a regen mon are hitting them most of the time. Keep for Pinsir-M, Landorus-T and Malt, let him be a third check to Azumarill and 2nd to Lopunny.... There's really not much to say here.



Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Quagsire's usage increase isn't really a fluke. Being one of the best counters to BD azumarill, being great against Scizor and Dnite as well as even having enough bulk to take on resisted special attackers, Quagsire's pretty much the second most annoying anti-boosting button in the tier behind Unaware Clefable.

For my team in particular, I do like to scout heatrans now with Quag. If I see Lava Plume, I immediately go into Blissey after. But in cases of Magma Storm, Quagsire makes your life so much easier. Apparently while I was gone, Stall breaker gliscor came up a bit. Quag helps with that, too. And specific to this team, he's mostly the bisharp go-to, which is normally a bit outside his role. I would normally prefer to sweep through Bisharp but between Tangrowth and Quag, he isn't too much of an issue if Bisharp forces himself in early.



Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Shadow Ball

So my blissey scarifies the physical bulk of chansey for recovery and absolute certainty in beating Manaphy. Also Gengar. Anyways, throwing down one or 2 Calm Minds will result in your opponent freaking out and throwing something stupid in to stop you most of the time. Bliss really doesn't do that much damage even at +2. Shadow ball is mostly because I decided there were more ground types around than there were Chansey/Lopunny but it can easily be changed to anything, so long as it does at least neutral damage to manaphy. Psychic was an option but I want to pressure Sable-mega at least a little. Shadow Ball seemed like the great inbetween in clearing out manaphy/gengar, hitting grounds and having some form of pressure on Sableye-mega. It's also the great inbetween on damage numbers for them, too, but she isn't meant to sweep.



Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Roost

So when I finished my main core, I decided that having no wincon would leave this team just mediocre at best. Sableye is still hard to beat with any stall team just due to bulk, anti hazards and wisp/knock off. I was also having issues with keldeo, which really can't happen. Altaria helps both in a big way and gives me the power to blow something up with one free turn. I don't have the wish passing for it so I opted the standard spread, but I also don't have to worry about burns due to Blissey. Overall, I need Ferrothorn gone and generally prefer to see Thundurus-i gone before I consider setting up. Other than that, you might as well take a stab at a sweep if the +1 opportunity presents itself.

Also, this is a pretty fantastic second check to ZardY and occasionally Zardx. Just don't rely on it to wall either. I think this is the team's third best Spdef mon (and doublade has a fire weakness) so if bliss is down, this is your 'get out of jail' card with special attackers.


Alright. Threats and such.

Magma Storm Heatran: I said I'm scouting more and more with Quagisre when a heatran is around but Heatran generally leaves quag low and you don't normally get away without taking a lot of damage you can't recover right away. He's a pain in the ass if Quag has something else it needs to cover.

Kyurem-B: The decision to take Chansey makes it so I take about 10% extra from Kyurem in general. I survive fusion bolt (45% is max role, 38% min) but as you can see that's really not a lot of leeway over two turns. It's something like 78% after leftovers. You need to take the 8 PP and pray no crits come through. If you get through that, Kyub is worthless against you. Otherwise, if you lose Blissey to kyub you damn well better find a way to threaten it off and all in with Altaria to get a +1 and sweep. If you don't do it fast, you'll straight up lose. If it's CB, you're still in for no fun but the team should absorb it decently (specifically doublade).

Keldeo: I cover it well between Tangrowth/Alt (alt being able to set up on most specs moves), but sets that bring/spam icy wind are a real dangerous proposition to this team.

Ferrothorn: Played defensively, a ferrothorn will just stop any attempt I have to sweep until I get it to 30% hp or a free turn and 45% hp. And my only real way of getting him there is a burn or Tangrowth wearing him out. Toxic sets just make me cry. He can't kill me but he stops my wincon for so long.

Roar CroCune: Very annoying (moreso than actually being a threat) since you want Blissey to take it and boost as you go. Not the most threatening mon in the world initially since Quag can mostly absorb hits too but if it burns your quag and still has PP to scald normally, it starts to get very close.

Victini: Very, very scary if it carries band. Otherwise I don't really care. I can normally sweep right through it if it's not being that active. At +1 you'll crush it as long as it isn't scarf and quag should absorb most of non-band victini's moves. Just scout for grass coverage.

Klefki: I have no real way of stopping him. I can defog what he does, but damnit I hate Twave Klefki. Screens, Toxic, spikes don't bother me since Skarm/Doublade will sit in on that all day. But Twave makes issues with possible and nearly unavoidable hax.

Stallbreaker Mew: My teams will forever have issues with this bastard. Luckily he isn't used much but taunt mew just makes me so unhappy especially if it packs wisp. I CAN mess with it through Blissey but I doubt I can kill it. If he walks into toxic, good game he might as well not even exist.




Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 216 Def / 48 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Pursuit
- Rest

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Brave Bird

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Shadow Ball

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Roost

Thanks.
 
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On this team, Gyro Ball > Iron Head on Doublade is the superior option.

Although the lack of PP is very annoying, Gyro Ball secures many key 2hko's and ohko's that Iron Head cannot (notably on Mega Pinsir, Medicham and Gardevoir (who you mentioned as you using Doublade to handle), making it the superior choice. Iron Head's flinch chance will almost never come into play, seeing as Doublade is ludicrously slow.

4 Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (122 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 163-193 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 108-127 (41.3 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

4 Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (122 BP) vs. 16 HP / 8 Def Mega Gardevoir: 402-474 (143 - 168.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 16 HP / 8 Def Mega Gardevoir: 264-312 (93.9 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

4 Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (101 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Heracross: 105-124 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Heracross: 84-99 (27.9 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

4 Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (92 BP) vs. 248 HP / 76+ Def Mega Heracross: 82-97 (22.5 - 26.7%) -- 27.9% chance to 4HKO
4 Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 76+ Def Mega Heracross: 72-85 (19.8 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO

(Gyro Ball has a chance to break a bulky Mega Heracross sub, while Iron Head cannot).

4 Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (126 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 127-150 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
4 Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 81-96 (29.8 - 35.4%) -- 21.1% chance to 3HKO

(high roll to 2hko is superior to a low roll to 3hko, in my opinion.)

There are other calcs where Gyro Ball is superior (notably on Latios and Terrakion) but I feel like I've spammed enough calculations to show that Gyro Ball is superior on all four of the threats you rely on Doublade for.

In accordance with this, I'd use minimum speed on Doublade (to maximise Gyro Ball power), as well as putting 4 EV's of ATK into DEF (the 4 attack EV's change nothing on Doublade at all), and I can see that you want an odd hp number on Doublade.

Glad to see someone else recognising how awesome Doublade is, and I hope this rate helped.

PS: You only beat me in that replay because low manaphy roll ):
 

pizzq

Banned deucer.
(this is pizza btw) wow aj ur great. stealing my malt doublade core to bee honest. also iron head>gyro ball bc u need pp so dont listen to that guy up there^. team is 1004372940% god and im not qualified to rate bc i dont play ou. Rmt would be 1382784% better with music like my dude darkreaper.
 
The one fear I have with Gyro ball is clefable.

4 Atk Doublade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (58 BP) vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 144-170 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Although I have good checks to clefable, my opinion is you never truly have enough. Gard's calc is mostly irrelevant to me because both are going to crush gard. Hera's is the one that does phase me a bit but Skarmory is actually who I prefer to handle hera anyways since you oneshot with brave bird. 200 total speed (about an uninvested base 80) seems to be the switching point on effectiveness for Doublade. Most of the time the faster mons can be handled either way so I always figured I'd rather target out the slower, bulkier mons.
 
I was wondering how you would manage around Banded Weavile as it seems to be a little issue with it's immediate power and danger it could present. I suppose you would have to rely on Quagsire first to scout the set, but it still looks to be something to watch out for. That being said this is probably the most well thought out stall team I've ever seen that's not just Sableye +5, and I know that you know your stuff well having read your contributions to the stall archetype in general. Well done my friend.
 

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