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CB Muk Update (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by lars, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. lars

    lars

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    I wrote the first RU Muk analysis and a good deal of it is still relevant in the current RU metagame, but woefully under competitive.

    As such, I believe that the intro paragraph, OO, Dream world, and most of the Tank/SubPunch/Curse sets and counters section can remain exactly the same. a complete revamp will follow with only the Choice Band set receiving a full RU analysis. Other sets will have a decent mention in OO with reasons given to the nature of their non-competitiveness.

    I talked to DittoCrow. He recommended that only the Choice Band set be up for QC/GP

    Ready for QC checks


    MUK

    [​IMG]


    The Good
    • Special Defense is pretty good (105 HP / 100 SpD)
    • Sticky Hold is kind of nice
    • 105 Atk for a bulky Poison isn’t bad
    • Resistance to Grass and Bug
    • Absorbs T. Spikes
    • Movepool works (for what Muk should do anyway)
    The Bad
    • The rise of Drapion and Cofagrigus hurt
    • Weakness to Psychic and Ground
    • Horrible STAB
    • Base 50 speed
    • Can’t take hits as well on the physical side



    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Gunk Shot
    move 2: Focus Punch
    move 3: Fire Punch
    move 4: Shadow Sneak
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe


    I'm probably the most common user of Muk and I always use the first suggestions listed here (Gunk, Focus and Fire Punch, S. Sneak). 95% of the time it's Gunk Shot and Shadow Sneak anyway.

    [Comments]

    Probably Muk’s best RU set the only reason you use Muk in RU
    • Muk can take a hit (hopefully a special one) and retaliate
    • Gunk Shot really is powerful (pretty much a nuke) this power is the reason you use it over Poison Jab
    • You can use a dry Focus Punch = heavy damage to common counters
    Steelix (252/252 max) = 56.6% - 66.7%
    Aggron (252/252 max) = OHKO
    Kabutops (252/252 max) = OHKO
    Magneton @ Eviolite (252/0) = OHKO
    • Shadow Sneak does good damage to several frail sweepers, don't expect it to stop a SD Drapion though.
    calcs are listed below in posts 4 and 7 (as well as a few logs)

    [AC]
    •evs are pretty obvious for a tank, 4 spe is to outspeed the common 0 spe tangrowth.
    • Excellent for coming in on Scarf Galvantula or similar
    • Stench could be used over Sticky Hold, but the flinches will be very rare
    • Fire Punch can be replaced by Thunder Punch for Omastar and Qwilfish or even Ice Punch for... Sandslash, but seriously just use Fire Punch
    • Explosion can be used, but the common Muk counters are all either immune or resist it making it mostly useful just to get something in for free
    • Payback might also be used, but Shadow Sneak has much better utility

    [partners and counters]
    • Tangrowth, Mandibuzz, Sigilyph are all good partners
    • in terms of offense, accelgor, absol, lilligant are pretty good.

    • counters are already listed in the current analysis, but Steelix, Aggron, Sandslash/Qwilfish depending on coverage, Bulky Ghosts with WoW. Steels should still be slightly wary of switching into a CB boosted Focus Punch.


    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    (first paragraph)
    • mention of tank set changing CB to lefties, depending on the ev spread, either too weak or not enough bulk
    •mention of SubPunch with Sub over Fire punch, outclassed as a SubPuncher in RU
    •mention of Curse set which has a niche with Trick immunity, outclassed as a Curse user in RU, mostly due to lack of reliable instant recovery

    (second paragraph)
    • Muk has pretty bad 4MSS so he can’t really fit Toxic, Taunt, Sunny Day, or Rain Dance on his sets, but he has access to them
    • He has Thunder, Thunderbolt, Thunder Punch, Focus Blast, Fire Blast, Dark Pulse, Sludge Wave, Façade, Shadow Ball, Rock Slide, and Explosion. (all have minimal usage except maybe Explosion on the CB set) He has Pain Split for a semi-reliable recovery.
    • Has Acid Spray, Screech, Disable, and Memento (Memento could be useful in some cases)
    • Can do a lol choice scarf to out speed max speed 97s (sigilyph) and under
    • With Sleep Talk, Muk can make a very useful sleep absorber as he resists most sleeper's STABs and does good damage to them with his STAB
    • As a poison type Muk gets to use Black Sludge, which is usually meant to deter Trick users that can't use it on Muk anyway. If item clause is in effect and you have another defensive poison type without Sticky Hold, Leftovers can be used exactly the same way


    [COUNTERS]
    • Steelix is biggest counter by far. Depending on the set, Aggron, Magnezone, Kabutops, Sandslash, Registeel, Bulky Ghosts with WoW. Also sleep users.
    • Almost anything that is faster with powerful Ground or Psychic
    • A lot of the listed counters (except Steelix and Bulky Ghosts really) can be beaten with specific moves or sets, conservative play until the set can be determined is recommended


    [Dream World]
    • Poison Touch is viable, but inflicts regular poison which might interfere with para or burn spreading. Muk's STAB attacks also spread regular poison anyway. Sticky Hold is certainly one of Muk's niche characteristics and should be considered first.





    Reason for change:
    Upon personal re-testing (and help from others) the other 3 sets were considered to be under competitive in RU, still minimally useful, but there are many better choices; therefore, they will be removed from the on-site analysis upon the QC/GP check of the CB set.


    I personally don't think Ice Punch can be justified as a preferred move choice when it literally is for one thing now... I only listed common threats that resist poison for the coverage. Fire Punch > Thunder Punch at this point because Fire Punch hits the things that are immune to Poison and Thunder punch only hits the resists (which still take reasonable damage. 40% min to 252/4 Kabutops)
  2. Honko

    Honko
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    Muk is not good. All his moves are either unreliable or piss weak, and he can't really switch in on much other than Grass-types. He's not bulky enough to counter RU's powerful Fighting-types even with the resistance. His STAB has less than 50% chance of hitting twice in a row, and his only decently powerful coverage move is Focus Punch (which hasn't been recommended on CB sets since ADV, for good reason).

    I don't think Muk has a place in RU.
  3. lars

    lars

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    Honko, sorry to say this so bluntly, but I think you are wrong.

    I have a ton of logs to prove Muk's niche in RU.

    I'll admit a slight bias in Muk's favor, but to say, "Muk is not good." is making a clearly uninformed statement.

    I'm curious as to what has changed your opinion from your seemingly favorable comments here in a metagame that has only become more "friendly" to this set?
  4. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    @ Honko: Muk isn't that bad. It was a research week mon, and people used it with success. In fact, I think it was the best out of the four Pokemon. Muk's niche is its ability to come in on Grass-types such as Tangrowth and Sceptile, who are rising in usage, and KO whatever comes in with Gunk Shot. It's surprisingly bulky and can take a hit from Fighting-types and deal massive damage to them:

    (no item) Adamant 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat: 32.12 - 37.92%
    Gunk Shot vs 4/0 Gallade: 142.44 - 167.98%
    (The set that most people are using atm doesn't include Zen Headbutt).
    Still: Zen Headbutt: 358-420 (86.47 - 101.44%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

    Guts-boosted 252 Atk Hariyama Close Combat: 46.61 - 55.07%
    Gunk Shot vs 0/0 Hariyama: 48.95 - 57.57%

    Gunk Shot vs 252 HP / 252 Def Poliwrath: 53.9 - 63.8%

    Muk can reliably take on Primeape as well. I think it's bulky enough to handle these Pokemon, yet powerful enough to wreck a lot of things that come in. Assuming that you want to risk Gunk Shot hitting, it will hurt almost everything in RU bar Steel-types, and that's where Focus Punch comes in. I've seen this set in action, and it's not bad (when Gunk Shot hits :p). I admit that you do need some team support to remove Ghosts/Steels, but that's not hard. I don't think that it should not get an analysis because its main move has the same accuracy as Focus Blast. Maybe lars could supply some logs?
  5. Honko

    Honko
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    @lars
    My favorable comments in the old thread were more about your effort on your first analysis than it was about Muk being any good.

    @DC
    Guts Hariyama 2HKOes with Stone Edge and is faster. Even CC + Stone Edge will 2HKO almost all the time. Muk can't switch in.

    Gallade wins if it has Psychic STAB, or if it's Swords Dance or Choice Band. Sub + Bulk Up will probably lose, but it has a decent chance of stalling out Gunk Shot's PP between Sub and the inevitable misses. Muk's definitely not a good switch-in until you know the set at least.

    Medicham OHKOes easily with Psychic STAB, and CB HJK or ThunderPunch 2HKO as well. Muk's not switching into that.

    LO Hitmonlee 2HKOes.

    Muk is a good switch-in to Hitmonchan (but only once, since LO elemental punch 3HKOes) and Primeape, but that's it for Fighting-types. Other than that the only things Muk can switch into are Grass-types (assuming Tangrowth/Lilligant have already used Sleep Powder on something else and Sceptile isn't Swords Dance...).

    I also don't agree that the metagame has become more friendly for Muk. Claydol and Gligar are gone, but Sandslash has mostly taken those spots and beats Muk easier than either of them ever did. Tangrowth has gained popularity, but so has Steelix. Bulky Ghost-types (mostly Cofagrigus, but also Dusknoir for some reason) are up. Drapion is way up. Hitmonchan, Primeape, and weak versions of Gallade are all down. It's only gotten harder for Muk to find chances to switch in, and it still has plenty of solid counters.

    Finally, I actually used Muk yesterday and didn't like it at all. Neither did Oglemi.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Even if it's not very good, this doesn't mean it doesn't deserve an analysis right? For a poke to not get an analysis, it has to be either unusable or strongly outclassed, and Muk is neither of those 2. And since the analysis already exists, why not just let lars update it?
  7. lars

    lars

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    For reference, Wormadam has a RU analysis and got a grand total of... 6 uses in May.

    Muk had 322 (1.7%) uses. (I am fully aware that there was a RW)

    Thank you for some damage calcs D_C; here are a couple more that I've come across in battles

    Timid Moltres in the Sun! Fire Blast vs (252/0) CB Muk = 81-96%
    Muk's Gunk Shot vs the same Moltres = 94-111%

    CM Uxie (+0) Psychic vs (252/0) Muk = 46 - 55%
    CB Muk Shadow Sneak vs (96/0) Uxie = 31 - 37%

    Other interesting calcs


    252Atk Choice Band Muk (+Atk) Shadow Sneak vs 4HP/0Def Hitmonchan: 30% - 36% (75 - 89 HP).
    252Atk Choice Band Muk (+Atk) Shadow Sneak vs 4HP/0Def Hitmonlee: 42% - 50% (103 - 122 HP).
    252Atk Choice Band Muk (+Atk) Shadow Sneak vs 4HP/0Def Gallade: 63% - 74% (176 - 208 HP).
    252Atk Choice Band Muk (+Atk) Shadow Sneak vs 4HP/0Def Rotom: 63% - 75% (154 - 182 HP).
    252Atk Choice Band Muk (+Atk) Shadow Sneak vs 4HP/0Def Sigilyph: 52% - 62% (150 - 178 HP).

    in other words, don't Gunk Shot offensive Gallade, just destroy it with your "piss weak" 40 bp priority and
    1 v 1 with Good damage rolls, Muk gets out at 40ish% hp, low damage rolls, both die, since Muk also 2HKOs with Shadow Sneak

    Gunk Shot is pretty self-explanatory: if they don't resist poison, they probably just got OHKOed

    Steelix (252/252+) takes 56.6–66.7% and standard defensive Aggron, Magneton, and Kabutops are all OHKOed by Focus Punch

    Fire Punch is just coverage and hits what it has to. Lilligant, Ferroseed, etc, OHKOed


    Logs

    Muk Rampage

    Show Hide
    Start of turn 10
    Lilligant used Giga Drain!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's HS Slasher lost 98% of its health!
    The foe's HS Slasher fainted!
    The foe's HS Slasher had its energy drained!

    Stiflar sent out Ninja'd! (Accelgor)

    Start of turn 11
    lars test 3 called Lilligant back!
    lars test 3 sent out Muk!

    The foe's Ninja'd used Giga Drain!
    It's not very effective...
    Muk lost 48 HP! (11% of its health)
    Muk had its energy drained!
    The foe's Ninja'd is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Start of turn 12
    Stiflar called Ninja'd back!
    Stiflar sent out AquaZapper! (Lanturn)

    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    A critical hit!
    The foe's AquaZapper lost 100% of its health!
    The foe's AquaZapper fainted!
    (iirc correctly this was an offensive Lanturn so Gunk Shot OHKOs anyway)


    Stiflar sent out A7X! (Drapion)

    Start of turn 13
    The foe's A7X used Toxic Spikes!
    Poison spikes were scattered all around the feet of lars test 3's team!

    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's A7X lost 41% of its health!

    The foe's A7X restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 14
    The foe's A7X used Toxic Spikes!
    Poison spikes were scattered all around the feet of lars test 3's team!

    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's A7X lost 7% of its health!
    The foe's A7X fainted!

    lars test 3: power
    Stiflar sent out The Legend! (Hitmonchan)

    Start of turn 15
    The foe's The Legend used Ice Punch!
    Muk lost 163 HP! (39% of its health)
    The foe's The Legend is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    The foe's The Legend lost 90% of its health!
    The foe's The Legend fainted!

    Stiflar: dafaq
    Stiflar sent out Ninja'd! (Accelgor)

    lars test 3: why don't people use muk

    Start of turn 16
    The foe's Ninja'd used Hidden Power!
    Muk lost 98 HP! (23% of its health)
    The foe's Ninja'd is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    The foe's Ninja'd lost 80% of its health!
    The foe's Ninja'd fainted!

    Stiflar sent out HideYoKids!! (Rotom)

    lars test 3: the choice band set really is good if you can remove steel types

    Start of turn 17
    lars test 3 called Muk back!
    lars test 3 sent out Absol!
    Absol was badly poisoned!

    The foe's HideYoKids! is fast asleep!

    Absol is hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 18
    Absol used Night Slash!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's HideYoKids! lost 86% of its health!

    The foe's HideYoKids! woke up!
    The foe's HideYoKids! used Thunderbolt!
    Absol lost 175 HP! (64% of its health)

    The foe's HideYoKids! restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Absol is hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 19
    Absol used Night Slash!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's HideYoKids! lost 19% of its health!
    The foe's HideYoKids! fainted!

    lars test 3 won the battle!
    lars test 3: good game
    Stiflar: T.T


    Muk holding his own and doing what I needed
    Show Hide
    Start of turn 7
    Manectric used Volt Switch!
    The foe's Drapion lost 30% of its health!
    The foe's Drapion fainted!
    lars the III: lol the crit didn't matter
    ruladdersucks: ik
    lars the III called Manectric back!
    lars the III sent out Muk!

    ruladdersucks sent out Rotom!

    lars the III: hmm
    ruladdersucks: !

    Start of turn 8
    Muk used Shadow Sneak!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Rotom lost 69% of its health!

    The foe's Rotom used Shadow Ball!
    Muk lost 109 HP! (26% of its health)

    Start of turn 9
    Muk used Shadow Sneak!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Rotom lost 30% of its health!
    The foe's Rotom fainted!

    ruladdersucks sent out Lilligant!

    Start of turn 10
    lars the III called Muk back!
    lars the III sent out Cofagrigus!

    The foe's Lilligant used Quiver Dance!
    The foe's Lilligant's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's Lilligant's Sp. Def. rose!
    The foe's Lilligant's Speed rose!

    Start of turn 11
    The foe's Lilligant used Sleep Powder!
    The attack of the foe's Lilligant missed!

    Cofagrigus used Trick Room!
    Cofagrigus twisted the dimensions!

    Start of turn 12
    Cofagrigus used Shadow Ball!
    The foe's Lilligant lost 39% of its health!
    The foe's Lilligant's Sp. Def. fell!

    The foe's Lilligant used Quiver Dance!
    The foe's Lilligant's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's Lilligant's Sp. Def. rose!
    The foe's Lilligant's Speed rose!

    Start of turn 13
    Cofagrigus used Shadow Ball!
    The foe's Lilligant lost 37% of its health!

    The foe's Lilligant used Giga Drain!
    Cofagrigus lost 211 HP! (65% of its health)
    Cofagrigus had its energy drained!

    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 14
    lars the III called Cofagrigus back!
    lars the III sent out Muk!

    The foe's Lilligant used Sleep Powder!
    The attack of the foe's Lilligant missed!

    ruladdersucks: UGH
    ruladdersucks: lol
    lars the III: good prediction
    ruladdersucks: i just planned to waste the TR turns
    lars the III: I lost my ru mini tourney battle to a sleep powder miss >.<
    ruladdersucks: ouch

    Start of turn 15
    ruladdersucks called Lilligant back!
    ruladdersucks sent out Cofagrigus!

    Muk used Fire Punch!
    The foe's Cofagrigus lost 28% of its health!
    Muk's ability became Mummy!
    The foe's Cofagrigus was burned!

    The foe's Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Cofagrigus is hurt by its burn!
    The twisted dimensions returned to normal!
    ruladdersucks: ouch

    Start of turn 16
    lars the III called Muk back!
    lars the III sent out Manectric!

    The foe's Cofagrigus used Nasty Plot!
    The foe's Cofagrigus's Sp. Att. sharply rose!

    The foe's Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Cofagrigus is hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 17
    Manectric used Volt Switch!
    The foe's Cofagrigus lost 34% of its health!
    lars the III called Manectric back!
    lars the III sent out Cofagrigus!

    The foe's Cofagrigus used Shadow Ball!
    It's super effective!
    Cofagrigus lost 129 HP! (40% of its health)
    Cofagrigus fainted!

    The foe's Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Cofagrigus is hurt by its burn!
    lars the III sent out Manectric!

    Start of turn 18
    Manectric used Volt Switch!
    The foe's Cofagrigus lost 18% of its health!
    The foe's Cofagrigus fainted!
    lars the III called Manectric back!
    lars the III sent out Muk!

    ruladdersucks sent out Lilligant!

    Start of turn 19
    lars the III called Muk back!
    lars the III sent out Manectric!

    The foe's Lilligant used Quiver Dance!
    The foe's Lilligant's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's Lilligant's Sp. Def. rose!
    The foe's Lilligant's Speed rose!

    ruladdersucks: damn
    ruladdersucks: wanted to giga
    ruladdersucks: but didnt have the balls

    Start of turn 20
    ruladdersucks called Lilligant back!
    ruladdersucks sent out Hitmonlee!

    Manectric used Overheat!
    The attack of Manectric missed!

    ruladdersucks: ugh
    lars the III: there even
    ruladdersucks: i kind of wanted u to hit that
    ruladdersucks: lol

    Start of turn 21
    lars the III called Manectric back!
    lars the III sent out Slowking!

    The foe's Hitmonlee used Stone Edge!
    A critical hit!
    Slowking lost 252 HP! (63% of its health)
    lars the III: really?

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    ruladdersucks: ya
    ruladdersucks: so i could survive the -2 overheat on lilligant
    ruladdersucks: and sry for crit
    lars the III: lol, so haxy

    Start of turn 22
    lars the III called Slowking back!
    lars the III sent out Muk!

    The foe's Hitmonlee used Return!
    The foe's Hitmonlee's Normal Gem raised Return's power!
    Muk lost 259 HP! (62% of its health)

    Start of turn 23
    Muk used Shadow Sneak!
    The foe's Hitmonlee lost 42% of its health!

    The foe's Hitmonlee used Return!
    Muk lost 46 HP! (11% of its health)
    Muk fainted!

    lars the III sent out Slowking!

    Start of turn 24
    The foe's Hitmonlee used Return!
    A critical hit!
    Slowking lost 264 HP! (67% of its health)

    Slowking used Psyshock!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Hitmonlee lost 57% of its health!
    The foe's Hitmonlee fainted!

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    ruladdersucks sent out Lilligant!

    lars the III: O.o
    ruladdersucks: o,O

    Start of turn 25
    The foe's Lilligant used Sleep Powder!
    Slowking fell asleep!

    Slowking is fast asleep!

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 26
    lars the III called Slowking back!
    lars the III sent out Manectric!

    The foe's Lilligant used Quiver Dance!
    The foe's Lilligant's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's Lilligant's Sp. Def. rose!
    The foe's Lilligant's Speed rose!

    Start of turn 27
    Manectric used Overheat!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Lilligant lost 60% of its health!
    The foe's Lilligant fainted!
    Manectric's Sp. Att. sharply fell!


    Average battle
    Show Hide
    Start of turn 1
    The foe's Yuka used Taunt!
    Manectric fell for the taunt!

    Manectric used Volt Switch!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Yuka lost 24% of its health!
    lars the III called Manectric back!
    lars the III sent out Muk!

    The foe's Yuka restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 2
    The foe's Yuka used Taunt!
    Muk fell for the taunt!

    Muk used Fire Punch!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Yuka lost 65% of its health!
    The foe's Yuka was burned!

    The foe's Yuka restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Yuka is hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 3
    lars the III called Muk back!
    lars the III sent out Kabutops!

    The foe's Yuka used Leech Seed!
    Kabutops was seeded!

    The foe's Yuka restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kabutops's health is sapped by leech seed.
    The foe's Yuka is hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 4
    The foe's Yuka used Taunt!
    Kabutops fell for the taunt!

    Kabutops can't use Stealth Rock after the taunt!

    The foe's Yuka restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kabutops restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kabutops's health is sapped by leech seed.
    The foe's Yuka is hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 5
    lars the III called Kabutops back!
    lars the III sent out Manectric!

    The foe's Yuka used Taunt!
    Manectric fell for the taunt!

    The foe's Yuka restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Yuka is hurt by its burn!

    Start of turn 6
    The foe's Yuka used Leech Seed!
    Manectric was seeded!

    Manectric used Volt Switch!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Yuka lost 16% of its health!
    The foe's Yuka fainted!
    lars the III called Manectric back!
    lars the III sent out Muk!

    AnotherLittleBoy sent out Koishi! (Uxie)

    Start of turn 7
    The foe's Koishi used Stealth Rock!
    Pointed stones float in the air around lars the III's team!

    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    The foe's Koishi lost 49% of its health!
    The foe's Koishi was poisoned!

    The foe's Koishi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Koishi is hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 8
    AnotherLittleBoy called Koishi back!
    AnotherLittleBoy sent out Youmu! (Cofagrigus)

    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Youmu lost 30% of its health!

    The foe's Youmu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 9
    lars the III called Muk back!
    lars the III sent out Lilligant!
    Pointed stones dug into Lilligant!

    The foe's Youmu used Will-O-Wisp!
    Lilligant was burned!
    Lilligant ate its Lum Berry!
    Lilligant's status cleared!

    The foe's Youmu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 10
    Lilligant used Quiver Dance!
    Lilligant's Sp. Att. rose!
    Lilligant's Sp. Def. rose!
    Lilligant's Speed rose!

    The foe's Youmu used Haze!
    All stat changes were eliminated!

    The foe's Youmu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 11
    Lilligant used Sleep Powder!
    The foe's Youmu fell asleep!

    The foe's Youmu is fast asleep!

    The foe's Youmu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 12
    AnotherLittleBoy called Youmu back!
    AnotherLittleBoy sent out Koishi! (Uxie)

    Lilligant used Quiver Dance!
    Lilligant's Sp. Att. rose!
    Lilligant's Sp. Def. rose!
    Lilligant's Speed rose!

    The foe's Koishi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Koishi is hurt by poison!

    Start of turn 13
    Lilligant used Giga Drain!
    The foe's Koishi lost 38% of its health!
    The foe's Koishi fainted!
    The foe's Koishi had its energy drained!

    AnotherLittleBoy sent out Mokou! (Moltres)

    The foe's Mokou is exerting its Pressure!

    Start of turn 14
    lars the III called Lilligant back!
    lars the III sent out Slowking!
    Pointed stones dug into Slowking!

    The foe's Mokou used Fire Blast!
    It's not very effective...
    Slowking lost 111 HP! (28% of its health)
    The foe's Mokou is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 15
    AnotherLittleBoy called Mokou back!
    AnotherLittleBoy sent out Daiyousei! (Clefable)

    Slowking used Thunder Wave!
    The foe's Daiyousei is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 16
    lars the III called Slowking back!
    lars the III sent out Muk!
    Pointed stones dug into Muk!

    The foe's Daiyousei used Calm Mind!
    The foe's Daiyousei's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's Daiyousei's Sp. Def. rose!

    Start of turn 17
    Muk is tightening its focus!
    AnotherLittleBoy called Daiyousei back!
    AnotherLittleBoy sent out Youmu! (Cofagrigus)

    Muk used Focus Punch!
    It had no effect!

    The foe's Youmu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 18
    lars the III called Muk back!
    lars the III sent out Cofagrigus!
    Pointed stones dug into Cofagrigus!

    The foe's Youmu is fast asleep!

    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 19
    The foe's Youmu is fast asleep!

    Cofagrigus used Nasty Plot!
    Cofagrigus's Sp. Att. sharply rose!

    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 20
    The foe's Youmu woke up!
    The foe's Youmu used Haze!
    All stat changes were eliminated!

    Cofagrigus used Trick Room!
    Cofagrigus twisted the dimensions!

    Start of turn 21
    Cofagrigus used Shadow Ball!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Youmu lost 61% of its health!

    The foe's Youmu used Shadow Ball!
    It's super effective!
    Cofagrigus lost 186 HP! (58% of its health)

    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Youmu restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 22
    Cofagrigus used Shadow Ball!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Youmu lost 44% of its health!
    The foe's Youmu fainted!

    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    AnotherLittleBoy sent out Yuyuko! (Munchlax)

    Start of turn 23
    Cofagrigus used Hidden Power!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Yuyuko lost 20% of its health!

    The foe's Yuyuko used Whirlwind!
    lars the III called Cofagrigus back!
    Pointed stones dug into Lilligant!
    Lilligant was dragged out!

    Start of turn 24
    The foe's Yuyuko used Body Slam!
    Lilligant lost 121 HP! (43% of its health)

    Lilligant used Sleep Powder!
    The foe's Yuyuko fell asleep!

    The twisted dimensions returned to normal!

    Start of turn 25
    lars the III called Lilligant back!
    lars the III sent out Muk!
    Pointed stones dug into Muk!

    The foe's Yuyuko is fast asleep!
    The foe's Yuyuko used Sleep Talk!
    The foe's Yuyuko used Whirlwind!
    lars the III called Muk back!
    Pointed stones dug into Slowking!
    Slowking was dragged out!

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 26
    lars the III called Slowking back!
    lars the III sent out Kabutops!
    Pointed stones dug into Kabutops!

    The foe's Yuyuko is fast asleep!

    Kabutops restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 27
    Kabutops used Rapid Spin!
    The foe's Yuyuko lost 4% of its health!
    Kabutops blew away Stealth Rock!

    The foe's Yuyuko woke up!
    The foe's Yuyuko used Whirlwind!
    lars the III called Kabutops back!
    Muk was dragged out!

    Start of turn 28
    Muk is tightening its focus!
    The foe's Yuyuko used Body Slam!
    Muk lost 109 HP! (26% of its health)

    Muk used Focus Punch!
    Muk lost its focus!
    But it failed!

    Start of turn 29
    lars the III called Muk back!
    lars the III sent out Cofagrigus!

    The foe's Yuyuko used Body Slam!
    It had no effect!

    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 30
    Cofagrigus used Hidden Power!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Yuyuko lost 19% of its health!

    The foe's Yuyuko used Whirlwind!
    lars the III called Cofagrigus back!
    Slowking was dragged out!

    Start of turn 31
    Slowking used Psyshock!
    The foe's Yuyuko lost 22% of its health!

    The foe's Yuyuko used Body Slam!
    Slowking lost 94 HP! (23% of its health)
    Slowking is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 32
    The foe's Yuyuko used Rest!
    The foe's Yuyuko went to sleep and became healthy!
    The foe's Yuyuko fell asleep!

    Slowking used Psyshock!
    The foe's Yuyuko lost 20% of its health!

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 33
    lars the III called Slowking back!
    lars the III sent out Manectric!

    The foe's Yuyuko is fast asleep!
    The foe's Yuyuko used Sleep Talk!
    The foe's Yuyuko used Body Slam!
    Manectric lost 135 HP! (48% of its health)
    Manectric is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

    Start of turn 34
    Manectric used Switcheroo!
    Manectric switched items with the foe's Yuyuko!
    Manectric obtained one Eviolite!
    The foe's Yuyuko obtained one Choice Scarf!

    The foe's Yuyuko is fast asleep!
    The foe's Yuyuko used Sleep Talk!
    The foe's Yuyuko used Whirlwind!
    lars the III called Manectric back!
    Kabutops was dragged out!

    Kabutops restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 35
    Kabutops used Stealth Rock!
    Pointed stones float in the air around AnotherLittleBoy's team!

    The foe's Yuyuko woke up!
    The foe's Yuyuko used Sleep Talk!
    But it failed!

    Kabutops restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 36
    lars the III called Kabutops back!
    lars the III sent out Muk!

    AnotherLittleBoy called Yuyuko back!
    AnotherLittleBoy sent out Daiyousei! (Clefable)

    Start of turn 37
    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    The foe's Daiyousei lost 93% of its health!

    The foe's Daiyousei used Thunderbolt!
    Muk lost 127 HP! (30% of its health)

    Start of turn 38
    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    The foe's Daiyousei lost 6% of its health!
    The foe's Daiyousei fainted!

    AnotherLittleBoy sent out Mokou! (Moltres)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Mokou!

    The foe's Mokou is exerting its Pressure!

    Start of turn 39
    lars the III called Muk back!
    lars the III sent out Slowking!

    The foe's Mokou used Air Slash!
    Slowking lost 127 HP! (32% of its health)
    The foe's Mokou is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 40
    The foe's Mokou used Hidden Power!
    It's super effective!
    Slowking lost 164 HP! (41% of its health)
    The foe's Mokou is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Slowking used Scald!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Mokou lost 20% of its health!
    The foe's Mokou fainted!

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    AnotherLittleBoy sent out Yuyuko! (Munchlax)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Yuyuko!

    Start of turn 41
    The foe's Yuyuko used Body Slam!
    Slowking lost 85 HP! (21% of its health)

    Slowking is paralyzed! It can't move!

    Slowking restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 42
    lars the III called Slowking back!
    lars the III sent out Cofagrigus!

    The foe's Yuyuko used Body Slam!
    It had no effect!

    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    lars the III: gg
    AnotherLittleBoy: gg


    Some good and some bad
    Show Hide
    Tier: Standard RU
    Variation: +9, -23
    Rule: Rated
    Rule: Sleep Clause
    Rule: Species Clause
    Rule: Wifi Battle
    Rule: Self-KO Clause

    lars test 3 sent out Manectric!
    Kendriin sent out Kumonga! (Galvantula)

    Start of turn 1
    The foe's Kumonga used Bug Buzz!
    Manectric lost 202 HP! (71% of its health)

    Manectric used Overheat!
    The attack of Manectric missed!

    Start of turn 2
    lars test 3 called Manectric back!
    lars test 3 sent out Muk!

    The foe's Kumonga used Bug Buzz!
    It's not very effective...
    Muk lost 63 HP! (15% of its health)

    Start of turn 3
    Muk is tightening its focus!
    Kendriin called Kumonga back!
    Kendriin sent out Pete Burns! (Kabutops)

    Muk used Focus Punch!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Pete Burns lost 100% of its health!
    The foe's Pete Burns fainted!

    Kendriin sent out MechaGodzila! (Aggron)

    Start of turn 4
    lars test 3 called Muk back!
    lars test 3 sent out Kabutops!

    The foe's MechaGodzila used Head Smash!
    Kabutops lost 268 HP! (82% of its health)

    Kabutops restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 5
    Kabutops used Stealth Rock!
    Pointed stones float in the air around Kendriin's team!

    The foe's MechaGodzila used Head Smash!
    Kabutops lost 76 HP! (23% of its health)
    Kabutops fainted!

    lars test 3 sent out Absol!

    Start of turn 6
    Kendriin called MechaGodzila back!
    Kendriin sent out Gallade!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Gallade!

    Absol used Superpower!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Gallade lost 40% of its health!
    Absol's Attack fell!
    Absol's Defense fell!

    The foe's Gallade restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 7
    lars test 3 called Absol back!
    lars test 3 sent out Cofagrigus!

    The foe's Gallade used Will-O-Wisp!
    The attack of the foe's Gallade missed!

    The foe's Gallade restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 8
    The foe's Gallade used Taunt!
    Cofagrigus fell for the taunt!

    Cofagrigus can't use Nasty Plot after the taunt!

    The foe's Gallade restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 9
    The foe's Gallade used Night Slash!
    It's super effective!
    Cofagrigus lost 136 HP! (42% of its health)
    The foe's Gallade's ability became Mummy!

    Cofagrigus used Shadow Ball!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Gallade lost 65% of its health!

    The foe's Gallade restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 10
    Kendriin called Gallade back!
    Kendriin sent out Charybdis! (Lanturn)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Charybdis!

    Cofagrigus used Shadow Ball!
    The foe's Charybdis lost 23% of its health!
    The foe's Charybdis's Sp. Def. fell!

    The foe's Charybdis restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Cofagrigus's taunt ended!

    Start of turn 11
    lars test 3 called Cofagrigus back!
    lars test 3 sent out Manectric!

    The foe's Charybdis used Scald!
    Manectric lost 79 HP! (28% of its health)
    Manectric fainted!

    The foe's Charybdis restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    lars test 3 sent out Lilligant!

    Kendriin: that focus punch earliar
    lars test 3: yea?

    Start of turn 12
    Kendriin called Charybdis back!
    Kendriin sent out Gallade!
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Gallade!

    Lilligant used Hidden Power!
    The foe's Gallade lost 6% of its health!
    The foe's Gallade fainted!

    Kendriin: I'm not gonna lie, that was a pretty good prediction
    Kendriin sent out Kumonga! (Galvantula)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Kumonga!

    lars test 3: thank you
    lars test 3: if you can do a little prediction, I think Muk is one of the best defensive pivots

    Start of turn 13
    lars test 3 called Lilligant back!
    lars test 3 sent out Muk!

    The foe's Kumonga used Bug Buzz!
    It's not very effective...
    Muk lost 67 HP! (16% of its health)

    Start of turn 14
    The foe's Kumonga used Bug Buzz!
    It's not very effective...
    Muk lost 66 HP! (15% of its health)

    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    The attack of Muk missed!

    Start of turn 15
    Kendriin called Kumonga back!
    Kendriin sent out MechaGodzila! (Aggron)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's MechaGodzila!

    Muk used Gunk Shot!
    It had no effect!

    lars test 3: there are some set backs such as this however XD

    Start of turn 16
    lars test 3 called Muk back!
    lars test 3 sent out Cofagrigus!

    The foe's MechaGodzila used Earthquake!
    Cofagrigus lost 116 HP! (36% of its health)

    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 17
    Kendriin called MechaGodzila back!
    Kendriin sent out Fatass! (Munchlax)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Fatass!

    Cofagrigus used Hidden Power!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Fatass lost 17% of its health!

    Cofagrigus restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 18
    Cofagrigus used Nasty Plot!
    Cofagrigus's Sp. Att. sharply rose!

    The foe's Fatass used Whirlwind!
    lars test 3 called Cofagrigus back!
    Absol was dragged out!

    Jedimono8895 is watching the battle.

    Start of turn 19
    Absol used Superpower!
    It's super effective!
    Jedimono8895: U RACK DISIPRIN KENDRIIN
    The foe's Fatass lost 70% of its health!
    The foe's Fatass fainted!
    Absol's Attack fell!
    Absol's Defense fell!

    Jedimono8895 stopped watching the battle.
    Kendriin sent out Kumonga! (Galvantula)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Kumonga!

    Start of turn 20
    lars test 3 called Absol back!
    lars test 3 sent out Muk!

    The foe's Kumonga used Thunder!
    Muk lost 186 HP! (44% of its health)

    Start of turn 21
    Muk used Shadow Sneak!
    The foe's Kumonga lost 34% of its health!

    The foe's Kumonga used Thunder!
    Muk lost 32 HP! (7% of its health)
    Muk fainted!

    lars test 3 sent out Lilligant!

    Start of turn 22
    Kendriin called Kumonga back!
    Kendriin sent out MechaGodzila! (Aggron)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's MechaGodzila!

    Lilligant used Quiver Dance!
    Lilligant's Sp. Att. rose!
    Lilligant's Sp. Def. rose!
    Lilligant's Speed rose!

    Start of turn 23
    Lilligant used Sleep Powder!
    The foe's MechaGodzila fell asleep!

    The foe's MechaGodzila is fast asleep!

    Start of turn 24
    Kendriin called MechaGodzila back!
    Kendriin sent out Kumonga! (Galvantula)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Kumonga!
    The foe's Kumonga fainted!

    Lilligant used Quiver Dance!
    Lilligant's Sp. Att. rose!
    Lilligant's Sp. Def. rose!
    Lilligant's Speed rose!

    Kendriin sent out Charybdis! (Lanturn)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's Charybdis!

    Start of turn 25
    Lilligant used Giga Drain!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Charybdis lost 64% of its health!
    The foe's Charybdis fainted!
    The foe's Charybdis had its energy drained!

    Kendriin sent out MechaGodzila! (Aggron)
    Pointed stones dug into the foe's MechaGodzila!

    lars test 3: gg, nice battle

    Start of turn 26
    Lilligant used Giga Drain!
    Kendriin: gg
    The foe's MechaGodzila lost 81% of its health!
    The foe's MechaGodzila fainted!
    The foe's MechaGodzila had its energy drained!

    lars test 3 won the battle!
    lars test 3: good game
    Kendriin: if that sleep powder missed I may have won
    lars test 3: I think so
    Kendriin: but I think I needed the rapid spin support
    lars test 3: yea
    Kendriin: so that focus punch probably won this match at the start
    lars test 3: is Kabutops SR too
    lars test 3: ?
    Kendriin: yeah
    lars test 3: cool
    lars test 3: that's the same thing I do
    Kendriin: so I took a huge blow when he went down
    lars test 3: yea, try muk some
    lars test 3: he's got some good sets
    lars test 3: good lilligant counter too
    lars test 3: after sleep clause of course
    Kendriin: anyway, gg
    lars test 3: gg


    This represents a good cross section of play.
  8. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I don't have time for a long reply atm, I'll expand later if I need to. Your calcs don't show Muk being able to switch into anything (other than Chan, Ape, and Grass-types after sleep clause). If you're using a slow attacker with a poor movepool, it better be able to switch in and then take a second hit without dying so it can launch an attack. If it can't, you're better off using something faster that doesn't need to take 2 hits before it can attack every time. Like Entei.

    Whether the rest QC agrees with me on this set or not, Muk's entire analysis definitely needs to go through QC again, because the other sets are even worse than CB and I know for a fact I'm not the only one who doubts those at least. Also the overview seems out of touch by mentioning Weezing as a relevant mon in the first sentence, and the counters are missing bulky Ghosts.

    BTW, I appreciate that you're making solid arguments with calcs and logs. Even if I don't agree with you about Muk, I really like the effort you put into your analyses.
  9. lars

    lars

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    265
    In fact, I quite agree with you here, if I was put on the spot, it would be of my personal opinion that the Curse and SubPunch sets do not need a RU analysis and the Tank set is really only if you desperately need a special tank that is immune to toxic and trick. (The biggest issue is either a lack of bulk or a lack of power depending on the EV spread, and after a good deal of initial testing, I wasn't able to find a happy medium.)

    Silent Verse is currently trying to find a better EV spread for the Tank set.

    Silent Verse and I (as well as others) are convinced that the Curse set is not worthy of a RU analysis after a good deal of re-testing.

    We are uncertain as of now on the SubPunch set, but I'm not optimistic of the re-test results.

    Let's just say, there is a reason I don't use any of those 3 sets on my competitive teams.

    I have information/logs on the other sets (if anyone would like to see them) and I think it is of general community opinion that the CB set deserves an analysis and it's really the only set I have the experience with to honestly fight for.
  10. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Several QC members have spoken on irc and we agree that Muk should be revamped entirely, with only the CB set as a full set analysis.
  11. lars

    lars

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    265
    I can't disagree so OP has been edited accordingly.

    I've decided the 4 moves listed are the only ones worth using from plenty of experience. Personally I don't think anything else is even worth a slash, but I'm open to other thoughts. Everything else is [AC] with a strong mention of ThunderPunch for Omastar. Gunk Shot>Poison Jab will be mentioned in the comments due to power reasons. Dry Focus Punch is taboo, but its only useful on the switch anyway. And cause Brick Break is for sissies.

    Still ready for QC, lol, didn't expect quite this level of update work going in, but I guess that can happen.
  12. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Just putting this here for now, will add later.

    [Overview]
    • Add that it resist Fighting-type moves
    • Don't say "the rise of Drapion.." just say that Poison-types are common (Nidoqueen is now RU) Lack of Earthquake hurts
    • Can't come in on Fighting-types, gets 2HKOed by Hariyama etc. calcs are above

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Explain Fire Punch and why it is better than the other Punches

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Mention Manectric instead of Galvantula
    • Poison Jab
    • Teammates: Spiritomb to trap Ghost-types, cripple Steelix, Sandslash, etc. with Will-O-Wisp

    [Other Options]
    • Be sure to mention that it shouldn't be using Taunt due to its base 50 Speed

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Get rid of Registeel, it's UU
    • Nidoqueen :p

    [Unreleased]
    • Omit this section, it's released


    Yea just some initial thoughts, I need to test it more in BW2 and hear other QC member's inputs.
  13. lars

    lars

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
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    265
    Yep, not really sure how Registeel ever made it on there... I've been meaning Regirock in my head the whole time >.<

    Anywho, I'm not sure how Muk will fit into the new RU BW2 meta... I'm hesitant to say he will be worse because it depends on how popular Nidoqueen and Escaliver become along with some other things (like Amoonguss, who Muk finds harder to break than Tangrowth)

    I've been less active lately but I'll probably be back on more after a little while. Been kind of busy and have a family vacation coming up. I'm not too worried and I would rather have the testing done in a stable meta after a couple weeks.

    Muk isn't high priority either way.

    Honestly, it would probably be best to see July's RU usage stats do calcs, and try it out with a listed set. (generally because of the whole Ice Punch/Fire Punch issue especially if Nidoqueen usage is super high)

    Also if T. spikes usage is way up from Nidoqueen, a tank set might have a slight chance to be viable again (emphasis on slight)

    just my thoughts
  14. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    i realise i'm late but

    I'm getting 97.67% - 115.12%
  15. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    QC Rejected 1/3

    Sucks in this meta with Escavalier and Nidoqueen and is outclassed by a ton of stuff.

    Sorry lars :(
  16. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    QC Rejected 2/3
  17. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

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    QC Rejected 3/3

    Yeah, Muk just isn't good in the current metagame :(.

    Omi Edit: you nigs

    qc rejected 4/3

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