1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Celebi (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by AccidentalGreed, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,684
    I'm just pushing Bibi through GP.

    Status: Copyediting

    QC Approvals (3/3): (Iconic) (PK Gaming) (Bloo)

    GP Approvals (2/2): (NixHex) (Aeron Ee1) + Virizion
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    [​IMG]

    Jira-I mean, Celebi

    [Overview]

    <p>Celebi has a known history of metagame-related pressure; with every new generation, its niche in OU becomes ever harder to maintain because of the need to cover new threats. With the transition to the fifth generation, classic rivals such as Scizor and Tyranitar are more popular than ever, while the emergence of newer threats, especially Latios, Latias, Hydreigon, and Chandelure, threaten Celebi's existence in OU. This problem isn't helped by the fact that the grass pixie didn't receive anything significantly new in the transition, forcing Celebi to resort to the classics.</p>

    <p>Despite these unnerving flaws, Celebi only actually requires adaption to function in the tier it has comfortably inhabited for three generations. While Celebi's typing brings it many crippling weaknesses, it also grants it resistances to six common attacking types. This, in conjunction with its base 100 / 100 / 100 defenses, allows Celebi to sponge many attacks (even some super effective ones) and support its team with ease. Celebi isn't bad offensively either, having access to an adequate offensive movepool as well as the ever-useful Nasty Plot to destroy the most common Pokemon in OU. With the correct support, the grass pixie will always be a valuable addition to a team, capable of easily paving the way for a teammate.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot Sweeper
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power / Psychic
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 220 HP / 252 SpA / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Celebi's Speed, Special Attack, and adequate coverage moves all combine to make an effective special attacker. With Nasty Plot, Celebi's power is augmented to astronomical numbers, ensuring it makes maximum impact before fainting. On top of this, because of its high defenses, good typing, access to recovery (in two forms), and convenient ability in Natural Cure, Celebi can survive many attacks, use Nasty Plot, and fire off its boosted attacks with zest.</p>

    <p>Giga Drain is Celebi's main attacking move, providing consistent STAB damage along with an advantageous secondary effect: draining the foe's HP. After one Nasty Plot boost, Celebi can restore a large amount of health simply by attacking with Giga Drain, effectively nullifying the damage it suffered during setup. Recover also provides a reliable, alternative method of recovery against foes that laugh off Giga Drain. If you choose to use Celebi at a more offensive angle, Recover can be replaced by another attacking move, expanding Celebi's overall coverage against opposing counters.</p>

    <p>The last slot can be a bit tricky; no matter which combination of moves Celebi chooses, it will be walled by certain foes. Hidden Power Fire is a reliable option against the majority of Steel-type Pokemon, especially Skarmory and Ferrothorn, with the only exception of Heatran. Earth Power provides general coverage, OHKOing most opposing Fire- and Steel-types. Earth Power's main disadvantage is leaving Celebi vulnerable to Skarmory, Scizor, and many Flying- and Dragon-types (Latios, Latias, and Tornadus, to name a few). Psychic can function as a secondary STAB attack, providing good all-around coverage alongside Giga Drain, but leaves Celebi walled by Steel-type Pokemon, so it is advised to use Psychic alongside another coverage move.<p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Nasty Plot Celebi has room for lots of options. The given EV spread, alongside a Modest nature, allows Celebi to outspeed all unboosted variants of Tyranitar (bar Choice Scarf), while maintaining efficient durability and maximum Special Attack. Some EVs can be placed into Speed from Special Attack to outrun a wider variety of foes since Celebi is already boosting its Special Attack. Celebi can also go the offensive route by utilizing a simple spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with either a Timid or Modest nature. In most scenarios, Celebi should use Life Orb because the recoil sustained will usually be made up by enhanced power and the HP healed by Giga Drain. Leftovers is always a viable option to keep Celebi healthy for most of the match, though the drop in power will be very noticeable.</p>

    <p>Besides faster Pokemon with a super effective move for Celebi, certain foes will trouble Celebi depending on the coverage it uses. Teammates who can handle what Celebi cannot are mandatory. For example, if Hidden Power Fire is used over Earth Power, Celebi will need a way around Heatran, so a Water-type with decent defenses, such as Rotom-W, Politoed, or Kingdra, should be used to put it in check. Unfortunately, Celebi is always going to be walled by Latios, Latias, and Hydreigon, all of whom resist Celebi's main attacks, the former two being able to set up with Calm Mind. Pursuit users are a quick answer to Latios and Latias, while Hydreigon can be handled by a faster teammate with a strong Fighting-, Dragon-, or Bug-type move. Blissey and Chansey, the two special walls of OU, will be annoyances when attempting a sweep, so the use of physical Fighting-type moves from lures is recommended.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tinkerbell
    move 1: Thunder Wave
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power / Psychic
    move 4: Recover
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Though Celebi is usually played one way or the other, it can combine its offensive, defensive, and supportive capabilities into one set. This means that if necessary, Celebi can serve as a flexible hit-and-run attacker with the ability to sponge attacks and cripple the opponent with paralysis. Celebi's access to instant recovery also greatly defines this set, enabling Celebi to dish out a strong attack or Thunder Wave early-game, and switch out many times if needed. With Team Preview on your side, the need for prediction is further eased.</p>

    <p>To start off, Celebi should use either Thunder Wave or Leaf Storm on the first turn it is out to cripple switch-ins or staying foes. If a Pokemon who happens to resist Leaf Storm switches into it, it can be punished with Thunder Wave, and Celebi can use the remaining time to Recover or switch to a counter. Leaf Storm, by itself, is a difficult attack to switch into, being able to OHKO specially defensive Tyranitar with some previous damage. Celebi can choose a secondary attack to fend off counters; Hidden Power Fire is generally the best choice to handle a wider range of Steel-types, especially Ferrothorn and Scizor. In fact, Celebi can even OHKO common variants of Scizor with Hidden Power Fire after Leaf Storm and Stealth Rock damage. Earth Power hits Heatran and certain other Steel- and Fire-types for super effective damage. Finally, Psychic is an auxiliary secondary STAB move that enables Celebi to dish out powerful hits neutrally without Leaf Storm's unpleasant Special Attack drop.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Significant investment in Special Attack, along with a Modest nature, is absolutely required to make the best out of Celebi's offensive power and hit-and-run nature. Celebi also doesn't need to invest much into Speed due to Thunder Wave, so 36 EVs are enough to outspeed all unboosted variants of Tyranitar. However, due to Jolly Scizor's increasing usage, 68 EVs can be invested into Speed to avoid being outsped and OHKOed by said Pokemon. The remaining EVs are put into HP for general bulk.</p>

    <p>Unlike similar offensive sets, Celebi does not need to worry about coverage as much due to its ability to cripple resistances and counters with Thunder Wave. Additionally, since this set easily eliminates Pokemon such as Scizor and Tyranitar, Pokemon that originally had problems with them make fine teammates. Slower powerhouses such as Scrafty, Heatran, Chandelure, and Scizor can function more easily with Celebi being able to spread paralysis. As a special mention, Togekiss and Jirachi are well-to-do teammates, with their ability to flinch the opponent to death further amplified by the paralysis Celebi provides. With such a set that can force many switches, entry hazards will make the opponent think twice about the prospect of switching out. Ferrothorn, for example, is one of the best hazard users to pair with Celebi, with the two of them complementing each other defensively and only sharing a Fire-type weakness.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Giga Drain / Grass Knot
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Thunder Wave / Leech Seed
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Celebi can't really jump from one generation to the next without its trademark defensive set. This set, which makes great use of Celebi's natural bulk, access to recovery, decent defensive typing, and movepool, allows it to function easily as both a team player and a pivot against common OU Pokemon. Because of the numerous fast threats that can be crippled by paralysis, in addition to the abundance of certain Fire-weak threats and rain abusers, Celebi can be a strong response to many teams if played correctly.</p>

    <p>Celebi's choice of a Grass-type STAB move depends on the user's preference; while Giga Drain, in conjunction with Leftovers, keeps Celebi consistently healthy, Grass Knot is a significantly stronger option because of the many heavyweight threats in OU. Grass Knot is reserved especially for heavier bulky Water-types, Terrakion, and Tyranitar, targets of which Giga Drain is much weaker against. Hidden Power Fire is nearly non-negotiable, given the amount of Pokemon with Fire-type weaknesses in the metagame, especially Scizor and Ferrothorn. As for support moves, Thunder Wave is in the third slot primarily to potentially cripple faster threats such as Latios and Dragonite. Leech Seed has the benefit of draining the foe's health in addition to healing Celebi's, which can be annoying paired with additional recovery and Toxic Spikes. Finally, Recover is used to heal damage that Celebi has taken, enabling it to take and stall out more hits.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread, along with a Bold nature, nearly maximizes Celebi's physical bulk while allowing it to outrun all unboosted variants of Tyranitar, assuming Celebi uses Hidden Power Fire. If your team requires a good special sponge, investing in Special Defense rather than physical Defense is certainly acceptable. Speaking of which, other options for this set include Hidden Power Ice, Heal Bell, Reflect, and Light Screen. Though Celebi already hinders certain Dragon- and Flying-type Pokemon with paralysis, Hidden Power Ice is an option to eliminate Dragonite, Salamence, and Gliscor from play promptly. If used, Reflect should probably be paired with it to avoid catastrophic damage from Scizor and Skarmory. Any defensive screen can be used if your team has trouble against certain attacks. For cleric support, look no further than Heal Bell.</p>

    <p>Though Celebi takes on a dedicated defensive role, its numerous weaknesses will really make it suffer when faced with certain Pokemon such as Skarmory, Heatran, Tyranitar, and Scizor, so provide it with good defensive synergy. Hidden Power Fire will only deal 71.1% - 84% to a Scizor with maximum HP, while Grass Knot can only 2HKO Tyranitar at best, making both of them efficient counters if they haven't taken previous damage. Magnezone makes an efficient counter to Scizor and Skarmory, again being able to trap and eliminate them with Magnet Pull. A Heatran of your own, preferably one with Substitute to lure other counters, is also beneficial against these two, with the benefit of checking opposing Heatran. Rotom-W is a straightfoward answer to all the aforementioned counters, capable of crippling physical threats with Will-O-Wisp while blasting away at the opposition with Hydro Pump and Thunderbolt. Finally, for a more offensive approach, Machamp can set up a Substitute in front of either Scizor or Tyranitar, and begin shuffling and breaking up the team with DynamicPunch.</p>

    <p>Like similar sets, Celebi provides team support through Thunder Wave and the weakening of certain Pokemon, so slow sweepers and wallbreakers such as Metagross, Dragonite, and Scrafty will most definitely appreciate the paralysis provided for them. A ParaFlinch user, either Togekiss or Jirachi, will also enjoy this paralysis, both being able to flinch the opposing team to its knees. With Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Scizor weakened or taken out, Pokemon who had trouble with these Pokemon, the most notable being Latios, Latias, and Rain Dance Kingdra, can turn the tables on the opponent using their respective sets. Because Celebi will be forcing lots of switches thanks to its ability to annoy, entry hazards make attacking much easier for both Celebi and the team. With Toxic Spikes support, especially from the likes of Tentacruel, Celebi can stall out many threats simply by using Recover, with Thunder Wave being used against the occasional immune Pokemon.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Trick / Psychic
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is high-risk, high-reward; while there may seem to be better Grass-types fit for such a set in OU, such as Shaymin and Venusaur, Celebi differentiates itself with its access to a stronger immediate attack in Leaf Storm, along with an arguably more substantial defensive typing and access to Trick. With a Choice Scarf, Celebi becomes a reasonably fast and powerful revenge killer, while Choice Specs makes Celebi an incredible wallbreaker. Meanwhile, as an advantage over other Pokemon with Choice items, Celebi can use Trick to effectively cripple any wall or defensive Pokemon that dares switch into it.</p>

    <p>Having eliminated major resistances such as Scizor, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn (which is fairly easy thanks to Team Preview), Celebi can let loose with its STAB Leaf Storm, which is capable of dealing immense damage to almost anything. With some entry hazards and Choice Specs attached, Celebi can manage an OHKO on the standard Sassy Mixed Tyranitar with 252 HP / 76 SpD. All other attacks are used to check threats who resist Leaf Storm just in case they haven't been eliminated. Earth Power is Celebi's best bet against the likes of Jirachi and Metagross, while the relevant Hidden Power should either check additional Steel-types or the occasional Dragon- and Flying-type.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Trick is the primary option in the last slot to cripple defensive Pokemon that might come in Celebi's way, including but not limited to Blissey, Chansey, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory. Alternatively, Psychic can be used as an additional STAB coverage move to have makeshift insurance against Flying- and Dragon-types (assuming Celebi uses Hidden Power Fire). Additional options include U-turn and Rest, which give Celebi a means of scouting switch-ins and restoring its health, respectively.</p>

    <p>Celebi will definitely have trouble trying to launch Leaf Storm early-game, since a majority of OU Pokemon resists Grass-type attacks. Alternative methods of handling checks and counters outside of Celebi's attacks are extremely necessary. Magnezone supports Celebi marvelously, as it can trap and eliminate the Steel-types that Celebi struggles against, including Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Scizor. For good measure, have Celebi use U-turn to safely switch out of these threats and guarantee a successful wipeout by Magnezone. Other Pokemon such as Heatran and Rotom-W can make good counters to the aforementioned Pokemon as well. Weavile and Mamoswine, both with high attack and STAB Ice Shard to work with, can check the Flying- and Dragon-type Pokemon that Celebi also has problems with. Be wary, however, as you have to work around their Fire-type weaknesses. Finally, Celebi's major issue is its Pursuit weakness, so teammates that can capitalize on a Scizor, Metagross, Bisharp, or Tyranitar locked into Pursuit are extremely helpful as well.</p>

    <p>Like the Tinkerbell set, due to Celebi's hit-and-run nature, entry hazards are helpful in ensuring a few potential OHKOs, especially against Dragonite who can otherwise survive Hidden Power Ice at full health with Multiscale. Some hazard users who complement Celebi defensively include Heatran, Ferrothorn, Swampert, and Skarmory. Additionally, since Celebi will typically be switching in and out very often, Rapid Spin users, such as Starmie and Tentacruel, who can spin away hazards while having some offensive presence against Celebi's checks and counters, are recommended.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 124 SpA / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Though Celebi is always available as a Nasty Plot sweeper, Calm Mind is another boosting move that it can use with brilliant results. The ability to boost both its offense and one defense is simply valuable due to many checks relying on a special coverage move to eliminate Celebi, an effort which can be nullified with Calm Mind. After a couple of Calm Mind boosts, most unboosted attackers, such as Tyranitar and Thundurus, will struggle to break through Celebi's either boosted or invested defenses while being battered with the appropriate move. Celebi's access to two forms of recovery also plays a major role in its survivability, allowing Celebi to set up more easily than it would have with Nasty Plot.</p>

    <p>As usual, Giga Drain is the most beneficial STAB move for Celebi because of its consistent power and secondary effect. Taking into account the power and bulk Celebi obtains with Calm Mind, a boosted Giga Drain will keep it very healthy throughout the match so it isn't so reliant on Recover. However, with Calm Mind and Recover in one set, Celebi only has room for one other coverage move in the last slot, so it will always be walled by specific threats. In this case, the most effective choice is Hidden Power Fire, due to the popularity of Steel- and Grass-type threats that would otherwise wall Celebi. The other coverage moves mentioned previously are less viable on this set due to Celebi's moveslot syndrome against Steel-types that are immune to Ground-type moves. Please keep in mind that Celebi will have plenty of opportunities to set up multiple boosts, so it should not attack immediately unless necessary.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs and nature are nearly the same for other similar sets, with the usual 36 EVs invested in Speed to outrun all unboosted variants of Tyranitar. 124 EVs in Special Attack means that Celebi can OHKO Adamant 252 HP / 216 SpD Scizor with Hidden Power Fire after a Calm Mind boost and Stealth Rock damage, while the remaining EVs are used to provide as much physical bulk as possible. Generally, investing in Special Attack is necessary to provide extra power, as Celebi would have little offensive presence otherwise. If initial power isn't a concern, simply pour the EVs into Defense for physical bulk. Because Celebi is played more defensively, Leftovers is basically a necessity for substantial healing.</p>

    <p>Although Calm Mind Celebi has an arguably easier time against revenge killers and some counters, it has coverage gaps that desperately need to be filled by other teammates. Again, using Hidden Power Fire with Giga Drain only means that Celebi will need additional insurance against opposing Fire-, Dragon-, and Flying-type Pokemon. Its problems are further worsened if it hasn't boosted enough times to sponge certain special attacks or break Substitutes, especially those from the likes of Heatran and Chandelure. A sturdy Water-type Pokemon with good coverage is a solution towards most of these threats, with Rotom-W being a prime teammate because of its access to Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave for Celebi's counters. Unfortunately, Latios, Latias, and Blissey will still raise issues even if Celebi conjured six boosts, so strong lures or Pursuit users for these threats are extremely necessary for Celebi to succeed in the long run.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In short, Celebi is somewhat limited in the offensive department. Swords Dance is generally inferior to Nasty Plot due to Celebi's small physical movepool, and it only has potential on a set using Baton Pass. Outside of Giga Drain, Celebi also has Energy Ball and Grass Knot to work with, the latter being able to hit Tyranitar, Milotic, and Suicune harder. However, Giga Drain is the most efficient option out of these three because of its recovering secondary effect, along with the fact that Giga Drain's base power is almost the same as Energy Ball's. Only consider Grass Knot if Celebi is in need of heavy damage.</p>

    <p>As opposed to its offensive options, Celebi has lots of support options. Celebi is a decent user of field effects, ranging from Trick Room, to Sunny Day, to Rain Dance. The latter two, however, can easily be set up by a permanent weather inducer such as Politoed or Ninetales. The only remotely useful weather move is Rain Dance, for the purpose of disrupting other weathers and setting up for Pokemon with the ability Swift Swim. Baton Pass is usable, but it is mostly outclassed by Mew, who has more options than Celebi can ever hope for. Other support moves include Heal Bell and Stealth Rock, one of which can replace a moveslot on defensive sets. Finally, Celebi has access to both Light Screen and Reflect, so a dual screen set with U-turn can be used to great effect. Celebi has a niche as a dual screen user because of its Grass / Psychic typing, though this in return gives Celebi many weaknesses.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It's certainly a shame Celebi didn't receive Psyshock, for it would have definitely crippled some of its best counters in the game: Blissey and Eviolite Chansey. While both can't really do much to Celebi due to its access to many forms of recovery (including Natural Cure for status), their high Special Defense ensures that Celebi can't do much to them either. Additionally, many Dragon-type Pokemon, especially Latios, Latias, and Hydreigon, will wall Celebi if it lacks the appropriate coverage move for them. Even then, Latios and Latias will both use Celebi as setup fodder for a Calm Mind sweep. In general, Celebi's main problem is being walled since its coverage is limited to few moves, but be prepared if Celebi happens to pack Hidden Power Fire or Earth Power for your Steel-type Pokemon. It would be safe to scout the grass pixie's movepool before switching in the appropriate resist.</p>

    <p>Celebi's other main problem is its seven weaknesses, all of which can be exploited by a faster Pokemon. Infernape, Gengar, Charizard, Tornadus, and Scolipede all have super effective STAB attacks to use against Celebi, making them amongst the best checks. Celebi must also be extremely wary of users of Pursuit and / or Choice Scarf, the most dangerous ones being Heracross, Scizor, and Tyranitar.</p>
  2. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    Me and Super Mario Bro were talking extensively about Celebi the other day. A few things I think REALLY need to be discussed / considered.

    Calm Mind: Needs a slash with plot or its own set. Calm Mind is harder to revenge kill. Celebi's typing makes it very hard to revenge kill with Calm Mind (Nasty Plot can't take a Draco to the face, where as Calm Mind can). Calm Mind can set up on more things (pretty much anything special) than NP as well.

    Defensive: Hidden Power Ice needs to be slashed or AC. It gives Celebi a way to check some key things like Dragonite and Landorus. With HP Ice slashed, Reflect should also be considered with a slash. Celebi is one of the best users of the move, ask anyone who played Gen IV. Reflect makes a ton of sense with HP Ice so that Scizor isn't a total dick to you, but obviously one must consider being Skarm / Nat bait. Perish Song deserves a definate mention in the AC section for that set because Baton Pass isn't too uncommon and Celebi is a great user of that as well. Heal Bell needs a mention too. All of the AC options for the general analysis could really be listed here since it is a SUPPORT set.

    Baton Pass Set? Fuck the Mew arguments. Same base stats, but Celebi has way better resistances which are wat any baton passing team wants. Fighting, Water, Electric, AND Ground resists? Yes, please. Celebi can pass Calm Mind BETTER than Mew because of those resists. (Mew is probably better with SD / NP thanks to Taunt).

    Addition of a Special Defense Set: This has fallen on deaf ears for a while now. Celebi is a total fucking dick to Rain teams and Rain based pokemon in general in addition to being able to survive and cripple Thundurus. Celebi is a very good Special Sponge, and is probably more of a pain in the ass if used on your own rain team where he loses his fire weakness. Celebi can stall out Specstoed pretty easily for example.
  3. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,158
    I agree with all of the additions RaikouLover is suggesting, but I would also like to suggest moving Hidden Power Fire to the first slash on the Nasty Plot set. Earth Power is really just for Heatran, and Hidden Power Fire is pretty necessary to prevent Skarmory from endlessly setting up spikes in your face. It also gives you a way to hit other grass types for super effective damage, and delivers an easy OHKO against Scizor (who lives +2 Earth Power and can OHKO Celebi with the appropriate bug move).
  4. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,684
    I will attempt to negotiate with C&C for the placement of the sets you two brought up.
  5. Electivire7

    Electivire7

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Stealt rock should be used:
    ~Stealth rock
    ~Calm mind
    ~Leaf storm
    ~Psychic
  6. The Tyranitar

    The Tyranitar

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    150
    There has to be a Toxic Stall set! I tested it against every weather and stall team, it crushes offense too. It is truly amazing, here it is.

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP/46 Def/212 SDef
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    -Substitute
    -Giga Drain
    -Toxic
    -Hidden Power [Ice]/ Leech Seed

    Substitute on the first turn, Toxic on the next, Giga Drain to sap their health while restoring yours. Use Leech Seed for Steel Types.
  7. prem

    prem failed abortion
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,825
    i know this doesnt mean much, but i really vote for spdef celebi. im running it on PO where drizzle swim is allow, and it dicks them so hard. it wont die to anything bar +2 kabutops stone edge. i mean i know its banned here, but we all know ow broken drizzle swim was, so if it is like a hard counter to that, i think it should get a mention here.
  8. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,684
    At this point, I would call this analysis ready for GP checks, but be patient. I contacted QC for Calm Mind and Specially Defensive sets, and at the moment, we won't really get anywhere due to the Smogon server on PO being down.

    Meanwhile, feel free to comment on the current analysis. I'm concerned with the length of the analysis, so if you drop in, say anything about it.
  9. zdrup15

    zdrup15
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,882
    Hey AG, other than the next few things, it looks good.

    Heatran was the most used Poke at the end of gen 4 so change the part about that in the Overview
    Every set comments and additional comments tag should be capitalized
    Heatran doesn't wall Celebi with Earth Power so change that in NP SET COMMENTS
    Mention Tentacruel in Defensive's last paragraph when you refer TSpikes
    Replace Snorlax with Chansey on Choice's AC
    Optional Changes should be Other Options
    Checks section should be Checks and Counters
    Heatran doesn't have Pursuit and almost never holds a Scarf so either rephrase that bit or remove it from the last para of Checks and Counters
    Remove the DW section
  10. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,684
    I couldn't have missed all that.





    ...Thanks, zdrup XD
  11. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,241
    You can do a CM set if you wish
    SpDef seems kind of unnecessary -- just mention different EVs in the AC of the support set.

    Also Nasty Plot set can afford to run an attacking move over Recover, I suggest you slash it with Psychic.
  12. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
    is a Tournament Directoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    3,542
    Hidden Power Fire should be the first slash in the last slot. Judging by the set comments, I assume that you intended for it to be, though.

    I disagree with Delta. I don't think Psychic warrants a slash with Recover, maybe a set comments mention at best. I believe Recover is far more useful in practice than hitting Dragonite / Salamence.
  13. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,158
    Sweet

    I have had a TON of experience with this Celebi in both 4th and 5th gen, and the set should look like this:

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 124 SpA / 36 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover

    124 SpA allows it to guarantee OHKO on specially defensive Scizor (252 HP / 216 SpD Adamant) after Stealth Rock and 1 turn of leftovers with 1 Calm Mind. It also allows for general "oomph"; Celebi would be pretty weak otherwise. 36 Speed lets it outpace Jolly Tyranitar, while the rest is spilled into defense to allow it to take both physical and special hits like a champ.

    A.C.
    -Psychic or Earth Power in place of HP Fire
    -More special attack EVs to guarantee the OHKO on 248 HP Scizor after SR without boosting. However, this is risky as many CB Scizors run special bulk to take on Latios better.
    -252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe Bold makes Celebi VERY sturdy on the physical side, but loses a significant amount of power.
  14. NixHex

    NixHex musty_yugoslavian_teacher
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,675
    I can GP this today.
  15. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,684
    Okay, just give me less than a few hours to write up Calm Mind.

    I also acknowledge Super Mario Bro's EV spread as the main one.
  16. NixHex

    NixHex musty_yugoslavian_teacher
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,675
    omit
    add
    comment
    Cap/decap
    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Celebi has a known history of "workplace-related stress"; with every new generation, its niche in OU is becomes constantly harder to maintain because it is required to cover newer threats. With the transition to the fifth generation, classic rivals such as Scizor and Tyranitar are more popular than ever, while the emergence of newer threats, especially Latios, Latias, Hydreigon, and Chandelure, threaten Celebi's existence in OU. This problem isn't helped by the fact that the predictable grass pixie didn'(no curly apostrophe)t receive anything significantly new in the transition, forcing Celebi to resort to the classics.</p>

    <p>Despite these unnerving flaws, Celebi only actually requires adaption to function in the tier it has comfortably inhabited for three generations. While Celebi's typing brings it many crippling weaknesses, it also grants it resistances to six common attacking types. This, in conjunction with 100 / 100 / 100 defenses, allows Celebi to sponge many attacks (even some super effective ones) and support its team with ease. Celebi isn't bad offensively either, having access to an adequate offensive movepool as well as the ever useful Nasty Plot to cripple the most common Pokemon in OU. With the correct support, the grass pixie will always be a valuable addition to a team, capable causing enough damage for another teammate to take advantage of.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot Sweeper
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Earth Power / Psychic / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 220 HP / 252 SpA / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Celebi's efficient Speed, Special Attack, and adequate coverage moves all combine to make an effective special attacker. With Nasty Plot, Celebi's power is augmented to astronomical numbers, ensuring it makes maximum impact before fainting. On top of this, because of its high defenses, good typing, access to recovery (in two forms), and convenient ability in Natural Cure, Celebi can survive many attacks, use Nasty Plot, and fire off its boosted attacks with zest.</p>

    <p>Giga Drain is Celebi's main attacking move, providing consistent STAB damage along with an advantageous side effect: draining the foe's HP. After one Nasty Plot boost, Celebi can restore a large amount of health simply by attacking with Giga Drain, effectively nullifying the damage it suffered during setup. Recover also provides a reliable, alternative method of recovery against foes that laugh off Giga Drain. If you choose to use Celebi at a more offensive angle, Recover can be replaced by another attacking move, expanding Celebi's overall coverage against opposing counters.</p>

    <p>The last slot can be a bit tricky; no matter which combination of moves Celebi chooses, it will be walled by certain foes. Earth Power provides general coverage, OHKOing most opposing Fire- and Steel-types. Earth Power's main disadvantage is leaving Celebi vulnerable to Skarmory, Scizor, and many Flying- and Dragon-types (Latios, Latias, and Tornadus, to name a few). Psychic can function as a secondary STAB attack, providing good all-around coverage alongside Giga Drain, but leaves Celebi walled by Steel-type Pokemon, so it is advised to use Psychic alongside another coverage move. Finally, Hidden Power Fire is a reliable option against the majority of Steel-type Pokemon, especially Skarmory and Ferrothorn, with the only exception of Heatran.<p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Nasty Plot Celebi has room for lots of options. The given EV spread, alongside a Modest nature, allows Celebi to outspeed all unboosted variants of Tyranitar (bar Choice Scarf), while maintaining efficient durability and maximum Special Attack. Some EVs can be placed into Speed from Special Attack to outrun a wider variety of foes since Celebi is already boosting its Special Attack. Celebi can also go the offensive route by utilizing a simple spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with either a Timid or Modest nature. In most scenarios, Celebi should use Life Orb because the recoil sustained will usually be made up by enhanced power and the HP healed by Giga Drain. Leftovers is always a viable option to keep Celebi healthy for most of the match, though the drop in power will be very noticeable.</p>

    <p>Besides faster Pokemon with a super effective move for Celebi, certain foes will trouble Celebi depending on the coverage it uses. Teammates who can handle what Celebi cannot are mandatory. For example, if Hidden Power Fire is used over Earth Power, Celebi will need a way around Heatran, so a Water-type with decent defenses, such as Rotom-W, Politoed, or Kingdra, can all put it in check. Unfortunately, Celebi is walled by Latios, Latias, and Hydreigon, all of whom resist Celebi's main attacks, the former two being able to set up with Calm Mind. Pursuit users are a quick answer to Latios and Latias, while Hydreigon can be handled by a faster teammate with a strong Fighting-, Dragon-, or Bug-type move. Blissey and Chansey, the two special walls of OU, will be annoyances when attempting a sweep, so the use of physical Fighting-type moves from lures is recommended.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tinkerbell
    move 1: Thunder Wave
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power / Psychic
    move 4: Recover
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Though Celebi is usually played one way or the other, it can combine its offensive, defensive, and supportive capabilities into one set. This means that if necessary, Celebi can serve as a flexible hit-and-run attacker with the ability to sponge attacks and cripple the opponent with paralysis. Celebi's access to instant recovery also greatly defines this set, enabling Celebi to dish out a strong attack or Thunder Wave early-game, and switch out many times if needed. With Team Preview on your side, the need for prediction is further eased.</p>

    <p>To start off, Celebi should use either Thunder Wave or Leaf Storm on the first turn it is out to cripple switch-ins or staying foes. If a Pokemon who happens to resist Leaf Storm switches into it, it can be punished by Thunder Wave, and Celebi can use the remaining time to Recover or switch to a counter. Leaf Storm, by itself, is a difficult attack to switch into, being able to OHKO max HP / min SpD Tyranitar with some previous damage. Celebi can choose a secondary attack to fence off counters; Hidden Power Fire is generally the best choice to handle a wider range of Steel-types, especially Ferrothorn and Scizor. In fact, Celebi can even OHKO common variants of Scizor with Hidden Power Fire after Leaf Storm and Stealth Rock damage. Earth Power hits Heatran and certain other Steel- and Fire-types for super-effective damage. Finally, Psychic is an auxiliary secondary STAB move that enables Celebi to dish out powerful hits neutrally without Leaf Storm's unpleasant Special Attack drop.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Significant investment in Special Attack, along with a Modest nature, is absolutely required to make the best out of Celebi's offensive power and hit-and-run nature. Celebi also doesn't need to invest much into Speed due to Thunder Wave, so 36 EVs are enough to outspeed all unboosted variants of Tyranitar. Moreover, due to maximum Jolly Scizor's increasing usage, 68 EVs can be invested into Speed to avoid being outsped and OHKOed. The remaining EVs are put into HP for general bulk.</p>

    <p>Unlike similar offensive sets, Celebi does not need to worry about coverage as much due to its ability to cripple resistances and counters with Thunder Wave. Additionally, since this set easily eliminates Pokemon such as Scizor and Tyranitar, Pokemon that originally had problems with them make fine teammates. Slower powerhouses such as Scrafty, Heatran, Chandelure, and Scizor can function more easily with Celebi being able to spread paralysis. As a special mention, Togekiss and Jirachi are well-to-do teammates, with their ability to flinch the opponent to death further amplified by the paralysis Celebi provides. With a such a set that can force many switches, entry hazards will make the opponent think twice about the prospect of switching out. Ferrothorn, for example, is one of the best hazard users to pair with Celebi, with the both two of them complementing each other defensively and only sharing a Fire-type weakness.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Giga Drain / Grass Knot
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Thunder Wave / Leech Seed
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Celebi can't really jump from one generation to the next without its trademark defensive set. This set, which makes great use of Celebi's natural bulk, access to recovery, decent defensive typing, and movepool, allows it to function easily as a both a team player and a pivot against common OU Pokemon. Because of the numerous fast threats that can be crippled by paralysis, in addition to the abundance of certain Fire-weak threats and rain abusers, Celebi can be a strong response to many teams if played correctly.</p>

    <p>Celebi's choice of a Grass-type STAB move depends on the user's preference; while Giga Drain, in conjunction with Leftovers, keeps Celebi consistently healthy, Grass Knot is a significantly stronger option because of the many heavywight heavyweight threats in OU. Grass Knot is reserved especially for heavier bulky Water-types, Terrakion, and Tyranitar, targets of which Giga Drain is much weaker against. Hidden Power Fire is nearly non-negotiable, given the amount of Pokemon with Fire-type weaknesses in the metagame, especially Scizor and Ferrothorn. As for support moves, Thunder Wave is primary in the third slot primarily to potentially cripple faster threats such as Latios and Dragonite. Leech Seed has the benefit of draining the foe's health in addition to healing Celebi's, which can be annoying paired with additional recovery and Toxic Spikes. Finally, Recover is used to heal damage that Celebi has taken, enabling it to take and stall out more hits.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread, along with a Bold nature, nearly maximizes Celebi's physical bulk while allowing it to outrun all unboosted variants of Tyranitar, assuming Celebi uses Hidden Power Fire. Speaking of which, other options for this set include Hidden Power Ice, Heal Bell, Reflect, and Light Screen. Though Celebi already hinders certain Dragon- and Flying-type Pokemon with paralysis, Hidden Power Ice is an option to eliminate Dragonite, Salamence, and Gliscor from play promptly. If used, Reflect should probably be paired with it to avoid catastrophic damage from Scizor and Skarmory. Any defensive screen can be used if your team has trouble against certain attacks. For cleric support, look no further than Heal Bell.</p>

    <p>Though Celebi takes on a dedicated defensive role, its numerous weaknesses will really make it suffer when faced with certain Pokemon such as Skarmory, Heatran, Tyranitar, and Scizor, so provide it with good defensive synergy. Hidden Power Fire will only deal 71.1% - 84% to a Scizor with maximum HP, while Grass Knot can only 2HKO Tyranitar at best, making both of them efficient counters if they haven't taken previous damage. Magnezone makes an efficient counter to Scizor and Skarmory, again being able to trap and eliminate them with Magnet Pull. A Heatran of your own, preferably one with Substitute to lure other counters, is also beneficial against these two, with the benefit of checking opposing Heatran. Rotom-W is a straightfoward answer to all the aforementioned counters, it being to capable of cripple crippling physical threats with Will-O-Wisp while blasting away at the opposition with Hydro Pump and Thunderbolt. Finally, for a more offensive approach, Machamp can set up a Substitute in front of either Scizor or Tyranitar, and begin shuffling and breaking up the team with DynamicPunch.</p>

    <p>Like similar sets, Celebi provides team support through Thunder Wave and the weakening of certain Pokemon, so slow sweepers and wallbreakers such as Metagross, Dragonite, and Scrafty will most definitely appreciate the paralysis provided for them. A "ParaFlinch" user, either Togekiss or Jirachi, will also enjoy this paralysis, both being able to flinch the opposing team to its knees. With Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Scizor weakened or taken out, Pokemon who had trouble with these Pokemon, the most notable being Latios, Latias, and Rain Dance Kingdra, can turn the tables on the opponent using their respective sets. Because Celebi will be forcing lots of switches thanks to its ability to annoy, entry hazards make attacking much easier for both Celebi and the team. With Toxic Spikes support, especially from the likes of Tentacruel, Celebi can stall out many threats simply by using Recover, with Thunder Wave being used against the occasional immune Pokemon.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Trick / Psychic
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is high-risk, high-reward; while there may seem to be better Grass-types fit for such a set in OU, such as Shaymin and Venusaur, Celebi differentiates itself with a stronger immediate attack in Leaf Storm, along with an arguably more substantial defensive typing and access to Trick. With a Choice Scarf, Celebi becomes a reasonably fast and powerful revenge killer, while Choice Specs makes Celebi an incredible wallbreaker. Meanwhile, as an advantage over other Pokemon with Choice items, Celebi can use Trick to effectively cripple any wall or defensive Pokemon that dares switch into it.</p>

    <p>Having eliminated major resistances such as Scizor, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn (which is fairly easy thanks to Team Preview), Celebi can let loose with its STAB Leaf Storm, which is capable of dealing immense damage to almost anything. With some entry hazards and Choice Specs attached, Celebi can manage an OHKO on the standard Sassy Mixed Tyranitar with 252 HP / 76 SpD. All other attacks are used to check threats that who resist Leaf Storm just in case they haven't been eliminated. Earth Power is Celebi's best bet against the likes of Jirachi and Metagross, while the following relevant Hidden Power should either check additional Steel-types or the occasional Dragon- and Flying-type.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Trick is the primary option in the last slot to cripple defensive Pokemon that might come in Celebi's way, including but not limited to Blissey, Chansey, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory. Alternatively, Psychic can be used as an additional STAB coverage move to have makeshift insurance against Flying- and Dragon-types (assuming Celebi uses Hidden Power Fire). Additional options include U-turn and Rest, which give Celebi means of scouting switch-ins or restore health, respectively.</p>

    <p>Celebi will indefinitely have trouble trying to launch Leaf Storm early-game, since a majority of OU Pokemon resists Grass-type attacks. Alternative methods of handling checks and counters outside of Celebi's attacks are extremely necessary. Magnezone supports Celebi marvelously, as it can trap and eliminate the Steel-types that Celebi struggles against, including Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Scizor. For good measure, have Celebi use U-turn to safely switch out of these threats and guarantee a successful wipeout by Magnezone. Other Pokemon such as Heatran and Rotom-W can make good counters to the aforementioned Pokemon as well. Weavile and Mamoswine, both with high attack and STAB Ice Shard to work with, can check the Flying- and Dragon-type Pokemon that Celebi also has problems with. Be wary, however, as you have to work around their Fire-type weaknesses. Finally, Celebi's major issue is its Pursuit weakness, so teammates that can capitalize on a Scizor, Metagross, Bisharp, or Tyranitar stuck in locked in to Pursuit are extremely helpful as well.</p>

    <p>Like the Tinkerbell set, due to Celebi's hit-and-run nature, entry hazards are helpful in ensuring a few potential OHKOes, especially against Dragonite who can otherwise survive Hidden Power Ice at full health with Multiscale. Some hazard users who complement Celebi defensively include Heatran, Ferrothorn, Swampert, and Skarmory. Additionally, since Celebi will switch in very often, potential Rapid Spin users, such as Starmie and Tentacruel, can spin away hazards while having some offensive presence against Celebi's checks and counter.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In short, Celebi is somewhat limited in the offensive department. Swords Dance is generally inferior to Nasty Plot due to Celebi's small physical movepool, and it only has potential on a set using Baton Pass. Outside of Giga Drain, Celebi also has Energy Ball and Grass Knot to work with, the latter being able to hit Tyranitar, Milotic, and Suicune harder. However, Giga Drain is the most efficient option out of these three because of its recovering side effect, along with the fact that Giga Drain's base power is almost the same as Energy Ball's. Only consider Grass Knot if Celebi is in need of heavy damage.</p>

    <p>As opposed to its offensive options, Celebi has lots of support options. Celebi is a decent user of field effects, ranging from Trick Room,(comma) to Sunny Day,(comma) to Rain Dance. The latter two, however, can easily be set up by a permanent weather inducer such as Politoed or Ninetales. The only remotely useful weather move is Rain Dance, for the purpose of disrupting other weathers and setting up for Pokemon with the ability Swift Swim. Baton Pass is usable, but it is mostly outclassed my Mew, who has more options than Celebi can ever hope for. Other support moves include Heal Bell and Stealth Rock, one of which can replace a moveslot on defensive sets. Finally, Celebi has access to both Light Screen and Reflect, so a dual screen set with U-turn can be used to great effect. Celebi has a niche as a dual screen user because of its Grass / Psychic typing, though this in return gives Celebi many weaknesses.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It's certainly a shame Celebi didn't receive Psyshock, for it would have definitely crippled some of its best counters in the game: Blissey and Eviolite Chansey. While both can't really do much to Celebi due to its access to many forms of recovery (including Natural Cure for status), their high Special Defense ensures that Celebi can't do much to them either. Additionally, many Dragon-type Pokemon, especially Latios, Latias, and Hydreigon, will wall Celebi if it lacks the appropriate coverage move for them. Even then, Latios and Latias will both use Celebi as setup fodder for a Calm Mind sweep. In general, Celebi's main problem is being walled since its coverage is limited to few moves, but be prepared if Celebi happens to pack Hidden Power Fire or Earth Power for your Steel-type Pokemon. It would be safe to scout the grass pixie's movepool before switching in the appropriate resist.</p>

    <p>Celebi's other main problem is its seven weaknesses, all of which can be exploited by a faster Pokemon if it cannot outspeed. Infernape, Gengar, Charizard, Tornadus, and Scolipede all have super effective STAB attacks to use against Celebi, making them amongst the best checks. Celebi must also be extremely wary of users of Pursuit and / or Choice Scarf, the most dangerous ones being Heracross, Scizor, and Tyranitar.</p>

    This was exceptional without GP checks.

    [​IMG]

    [GP 1/2]

    EDIT:: THIS COUNTS FOR THE PREVIOUS SETS. THIS WILL ONLY NEED ONE MORE CHECK WHEN THE CALM MIND SET GOES UP BECAUSE I'M TRUSTING THAT IT WILL BE GOOD.
  17. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,684
    • Calm Mind is up, so check up on that
    • Thanks for the GP check, Nix.
    • I followed Delta's and Eo's suggestions.
    Overall, it's been a good day. One more to go.
  18. PokéMontage

    PokéMontage

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    359
    Is it really appropriate to refer to Celebi as "predictable" in the overview? It still has a fairly expansive movepool and more viable sets listed in its analyses than most other Pokemon.
  19. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,684
    To be fair, Celebi is somewhat unpredictable because it can go either offensive or defensively (or both, depending on what you're using), so you're right and I edited that out.

    Come on, one more!
  20. Aeron Ee1

    Aeron Ee1 Nom nom nom
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    743
    Proofread (open)


    Changes in bold
    Removals in red
    Comments in bold red

    [Overview]

    <p>Celebi has a known history of metagame-related pressure; with every new generation, its niche in OU becomes ever harder to maintain because of the need to cover new threats. With the transition to the fifth generation, classic rivals such as Scizor and Tyranitar are more popular than ever, while the emergence of newer threats, especially Latios, Latias, Hydreigon, and Chandelure, threaten Celebi's existence in OU. This problem isn't helped by the fact that the grass pixie didn't receive anything significantly new in the transition, forcing Celebi to resort to the classics.</p>

    <p>Despite these unnerving flaws, Celebi only actually requires adaption to function in the tier it has comfortably inhabited for three generations. While Celebi's typing brings it many crippling weaknesses, it also grants it resistances to six common attacking types. This, in conjunction with its base 100 / 100 / 100 defenses, allows Celebi to sponge many attacks (even some super effective ones) and support its team with ease. Celebi isn't bad offensively either, having access to an adequate offensive movepool as well as the ever-useful Nasty Plot to cripple the most common Pokemon in OU (what? how does nas plot cripple anything ?_?). With the correct support, this grass pixie will always be a valuable addition to a team, capable of paving the way for a teammate with ease.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot Sweeper
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power / Psychic
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 220 HP / 252 SpA / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Celebi's efficient Speed, Special Attack, and adequate coverage moves all combine to make an effective special attacker. With Nasty Plot, Celebi's power is augmented to astronomical numbers, ensuring it makes maximum impact before fainting. On top of this, because of its high defenses, good typing, access to recovery (in two forms), and convenient ability in Natural Cure, Celebi can survive many attacks, use Nasty Plot, and fire off its boosted attacks with zest.</p>

    <p>Giga Drain is Celebi's main attacking move, providing consistent STAB damage along with an advantageous secondary effect: draining the foe's HP. After one Nasty Plot boost, Celebi can restore a large amount of health simply by attacking with Giga Drain, effectively nullifying the damage it suffered during setup. Recover also provides a reliable, alternative method of recovery against foes that laugh off Giga Drain. If you choose to use Celebi at a more offensive angle, Recover can be replaced by another attacking move, expanding Celebi's overall coverage against opposing counters.</p>

    <p>The last slot can be a bit tricky; no matter which combination of moves Celebi chooses, it will be walled by certain foes. Hidden Power Fire is a reliable option against the majority of Steel-type Pokemon, especially Skarmory and Ferrothorn, with the only exception of Heatran. Earth Power provides general coverage, OHKOing most opposing Fire- and Steel-types. Earth Power's main disadvantage is leaving Celebi vulnerable to Skarmory, Scizor, and many Flying- and Dragon-types (Latios, Latias, and Tornadus, to name a few). Psychic can function as a secondary STAB attack, providing good all-around coverage alongside Giga Drain, but leaves Celebi walled by Steel-type Pokemon, so it is advised to use Psychic alongside another coverage move.<p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Nasty Plot Celebi has room for lots of options. The given EV spread, alongside a Modest nature, allows Celebi to outspeed all unboosted variants of Tyranitar (bar Choice Scarf), while maintaining efficient durability and maximum Special Attack. Some EVs can be placed into Speed from Special Attack to outrun a wider variety of foes since Celebi is already boosting its Special Attack. Celebi can also go the offensive route by utilizing a simple spread of 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with either a Timid or Modest nature. In most scenarios, Celebi should use Life Orb because the recoil sustained will usually be made up by enhanced power and the HP healed by Giga Drain. Leftovers is always a viable option to keep Celebi healthy for most of the match, though the drop in power will be very noticeable.</p>

    <p>Besides faster Pokemon with a super effective move for Celebi, certain foes will trouble Celebi depending on the coverage it uses. Teammates who can handle what Celebi cannot are mandatory. For example, if Hidden Power Fire is used over Earth Power, Celebi will need a way around Heatran, so a Water-type with decent defenses, such as Rotom-W, Politoed, or Kingdra, should be used to put it in check. Unfortunately, Celebi is always going to be walled by Latios, Latias, and Hydreigon, all of whom resist Celebi's main attacks, the former two being able to set up with Calm Mind. Pursuit users are a quick answer to Latios and Latias, while Hydreigon can be handled by a faster teammate with a strong Fighting-, Dragon-, or Bug-type move. Blissey and Chansey, the two special walls of OU, will be annoyances when attempting a sweep, so the use of physical Fighting-type moves from lures is recommended.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tinkerbell
    move 1: Thunder Wave
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power / Psychic
    move 4: Recover
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Though Celebi is usually played one way or the other, it can combine its offensive, defensive, and supportive capabilities into one set. This means that if necessary, Celebi can serve as a flexible hit-and-run attacker with the ability to sponge attacks and cripple the opponent with paralysis. Celebi's access to instant recovery also greatly defines this set, enabling Celebi to dish out a strong attack or Thunder Wave early-game, and switch out many times if needed. With Team Preview on your side, the need for prediction is further eased.</p>

    <p>To start off, Celebi should use either Thunder Wave or Leaf Storm on the first turn it is out to cripple switch-ins or staying foes. If a Pokemon who happens to resist Leaf Storm switches into it, it can be punished with Thunder Wave, and Celebi can use the remaining time to Recover or switch to a counter. Leaf Storm, by itself, is a difficult attack to switch into, being able to OHKO specially defensive Tyranitar with some previous damage. Celebi can choose a secondary attack to fend off counters; Hidden Power Fire is generally the best choice to handle a wider range of Steel-types, especially Ferrothorn and Scizor. In fact, Celebi can even OHKO common variants of Scizor with Hidden Power Fire after Leaf Storm and Stealth Rock damage. Earth Power hits Heatran and certain other Steel- and Fire-types for super effective damage. Finally, Psychic is an auxiliary secondary STAB move that enables Celebi to dish out powerful hits neutrally without Leaf Storm's unpleasant Special Attack drop.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Significant investment in Special Attack, along with a Modest nature, is absolutely required to make the best out of Celebi's offensive power and hit-and-run nature. Celebi also doesn't need to invest much into Speed due to Thunder Wave, so 36 EVs are enough to outspeed all unboosted variants of Tyranitar. However, due to maximum Jolly Scizor's increasing usage, 68 EVs can be invested into Speed to avoid being outsped and OHKOed by said Pokemon. The remaining EVs are put into HP for general bulk.</p>

    <p>Unlike similar offensive sets, Celebi does not need to worry about coverage as much due to its ability to cripple resistances and counters with Thunder Wave. Additionally, since this set easily eliminates Pokemon such as Scizor and Tyranitar, Pokemon that originally had problems with them make fine teammates. Slower powerhouses such as Scrafty, Heatran, Chandelure, and Scizor can function more easily with Celebi being able to spread paralysis. As a special mention, Togekiss and Jirachi are well-to-do teammates, with their ability to flinch the opponent to death further amplified by the paralysis Celebi provides. With such a set that can force many switches, entry hazards will make the opponent think twice about the prospect of switching out. Ferrothorn, for example, is one of the best hazard users to pair with Celebi, with the two of them complementing each other defensively and only sharing a Fire-type weakness.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Giga Drain / Grass Knot
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Thunder Wave / Leech Seed
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Celebi can't really jump from one generation to the next without its trademark defensive set. This set, which makes great use of Celebi's natural bulk, access to recovery, decent defensive typing, and movepool, allows it to function easily as a both a team player and a pivot against common OU Pokemon. Because of the numerous fast threats that can be crippled by paralysis, in addition to the abundance of certain Fire-weak threats and rain abusers, Celebi can be a strong response to many teams if played correctly.</p>

    <p>Celebi's choice of a Grass-type STAB move depends on the user's preference; while Giga Drain, in conjunction with Leftovers, keeps Celebi consistently healthy, Grass Knot is a significantly stronger option because of the many heavyweight threats in OU. Grass Knot is reserved especially for heavier bulky Water-types, Terrakion, and Tyranitar, targets of which Giga Drain is much weaker against. Hidden Power Fire is nearly non-negotiable, given the amount of Pokemon with Fire-type weaknesses in the metagame, especially Scizor and Ferrothorn. As for support moves, Thunder Wave is in the third slot primarily to potentially cripple faster threats such as Latios and Dragonite. Leech Seed has the benefit of draining the foe's health in addition to healing Celebi's, which can be annoying paired with additional recovery and Toxic Spikes. Finally, Recover is used to heal damage that Celebi has taken, enabling it to take and stall out more hits.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread, along with a Bold nature, nearly maximizes Celebi's physical bulk while allowing it to outrun all unboosted variants of Tyranitar, assuming Celebi uses Hidden Power Fire. If your team requires a good special sponge, investing in Special Defense rather than physical Defense is certainly acceptable. Speaking of which, other options for this set include Hidden Power Ice, Heal Bell, Reflect, and Light Screen. Though Celebi already hinders certain Dragon- and Flying-type Pokemon with paralysis, Hidden Power Ice is an option to eliminate Dragonite, Salamence, and Gliscor from play promptly. If used, Reflect should probably be paired with it to avoid catastrophic damage from Scizor and Skarmory. Any defensive screen can be used if your team has trouble against certain attacks. For cleric support, look no further than Heal Bell.</p>

    <p>Though Celebi takes on a dedicated defensive role, its numerous weaknesses will really make it suffer when faced with certain Pokemon such as Skarmory, Heatran, Tyranitar, and Scizor, so provide it with good defensive synergy. Hidden Power Fire will only deal 71.1% - 84% to a Scizor with maximum HP, while Grass Knot can only 2HKO Tyranitar at best, making both of them effective counters if they haven't taken previous damage. Magnezone makes an efficient counter to Scizor and Skarmory, again being able to trap and eliminate them with Magnet Pull. A Heatran of your own, preferably one with Substitute to lure other counters, is also beneficial against these two, with the benefit of checking opposing Heatran. Rotom-W is a straightfoward answer to all the aforementioned counters, capable of crippling physical threats with Will-O-Wisp while blasting away at the opposition with Hydro Pump and Thunderbolt. Finally, for a more offensive approach, Machamp can set up a Substitute in front of either Scizor or Tyranitar, and begin shuffling and breaking up the team with DynamicPunch.</p>

    <p>Like similar sets, Celebi provides team support through Thunder Wave and the weakening of certain Pokemon, so slow sweepers and wallbreakers such as Metagross, Dragonite, and Scrafty will most definitely appreciate the paralysis provided for them. A ParaFlinch user, either Togekiss or Jirachi, will also enjoy this paralysis, both being able to flinch the opposing team to its knees. With Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and Scizor weakened or taken out, Pokemon who had trouble with these Pokemon, the most notable being Latios, Latias, and Rain Dance Kingdra, can turn the tables on the opponent using their respective sets. Because Celebi will be forcing lots of switches thanks to its ability to annoy, entry hazards make attacking much easier for both Celebi and the team. With Toxic Spikes support, especially from the likes of Tentacruel, Celebi can stall out many threats simply by using Recover, with Thunder Wave being used against the occasional immune Pokemon.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Trick / Psychic
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is high-risk, high-reward; while there may seem to be better Grass-types fit for such a set in OU, such as Shaymin and Venusaur, Celebi differentiates itself with its access to a stronger immediate attack in Leaf Storm, along with an arguably more substantial defensive typing and access to Trick. With a Choice Scarf, Celebi becomes a reasonably fast and powerful revenge killer, while Choice Specs makes Celebi an incredible wallbreaker. Meanwhile, as an advantage over other Pokemon with Choice items, Celebi can use Trick to effectively cripple any wall or defensive Pokemon that dares switch into it.</p>

    <p>Having eliminated major resistances such as Scizor, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn (which is fairly easy thanks to Team Preview), Celebi can let loose with its STAB Leaf Storm, which is capable of dealing immense damage to almost anything. With some entry hazards and Choice Specs attached, Celebi can manage an OHKO on the standard Sassy Mixed Tyranitar with 252 HP / 76 SpD. All other attacks are used to check threats who resist Leaf Storm just in case they haven't been eliminated. Earth Power is Celebi's best bet against the likes of Jirachi and Metagross, while the relevant Hidden Power should either check additional Steel-types or the occasional Dragon- and Flying-type.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Trick is the primary option in the last slot to cripple defensive Pokemon that might come in Celebi's way, including but not limited to Blissey, Chansey, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory. Alternatively, Psychic can be used as an additional STAB coverage move to have makeshift insurance against Flying- and Dragon-types (assuming Celebi uses Hidden Power Fire). Additional options include U-turn and Rest, which give Celebi a means of scouting switch-ins and restoring its health, respectively.</p>

    <p>Celebi will indefinitely have trouble trying to launch Leaf Storm early-game, since a majority of OU Pokemon resists Grass-type attacks. Alternative methods of handling checks and counters outside of Celebi's attacks are extremely necessary. Magnezone supports Celebi marvelously, as it can trap and eliminate the Steel-types that Celebi struggles against, including Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Scizor. For good measure, have Celebi use U-turn to safely switch out of these threats and guarantee a successful wipeout by Magnezone. Other Pokemon such as Heatran and Rotom-W can make good counters to the aforementioned Pokemon as well. Weavile and Mamoswine, both with high attack and STAB Ice Shard to work with, can check the Flying- and Dragon-type Pokemon that Celebi also has problems with. Be wary, however, as you have to work around their Fire-type weaknesses. Finally, Celebi's major issue is its Pursuit weakness, so teammates that can capitalize on a Scizor, Metagross, Bisharp, or Tyranitar locked into Pursuit are extremely helpful as well.</p>

    <p>Like the Tinkerbell set, due to Celebi's hit-and-run nature, entry hazards are helpful in ensuring a few potential OHKOs, especially against Dragonite who can otherwise survive Hidden Power Ice at full health with Multiscale. Some hazard users who complement Celebi defensively include Heatran, Ferrothorn, Swampert, and Skarmory. Additionally, since Celebi will typically be switching in and out very often, potential Rapid Spin users, such as Starmie and Tentacruel, who can spin away hazards while having some offensive presence against Celebi's checks and counters, are recommended.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Giga Drain
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 124 SpA / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Though Celebi is always available as a Nasty Plot sweeper, Calm Mind is another boosting move that it can use with brilliant results. The ability to boost both its offense and one defense is simply valuable due to many checks relying on a special coverage move to eliminate Celebi, an effort which can be nullified with Calm Mind. After a couple of Calm Mind boosts, most unboosted attackers, such as Politoed and Thundurus, will struggle to break through Celebi's either boosted or invested defenses while being battered with the appropriate move. Celebi's access to two forms of recovery also plays a major role in its survivability, allowing Celebi to set up more easily than it would have with Nasty Plot.</p>

    <p>(backspace)As usual, Giga Drain is the most beneficial STAB move for Celebi because of its consistent power and secondary effect. Taking into account the power and bulk Celebi obtains with Calm Mind, a boosted Giga Drain will keep it very healthy throughout the match so it isn't so reliant on Recover. However, with Calm Mind and Recover in one set, Celebi only has room for one other coverage move in the last slot, so it will always be walled by specific threats. In this case, the most effective choice is Hidden Power Fire, due to the popularity of Steel- and Grass-type threats that would otherwise wall Celebi. The other coverage moves mentioned previously are less viable on this set due to Celebi's moveslot symdrome against Steel-types that are immune to Ground-type moves. Please keep in mind that Celebi will have plenty of opportunities to set up multiple boosts, so it should not attack immediately unless necessary.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs and nature are nearly the same for other similar sets, with the usual 36 EVs invested in Speed to outrun all unboosted variants of Tyranitar. 124 EVs in Special Attack means that Celebi can OHKO Adamant 252 HP / 216 SpD Scizor with Hidden Power Fire after a Calm Mind boost and Stealth Rock damage, while the remaining EVs are used to provide as much physical bulk as possible. Generally, investing in Special Attack is necessary to provide extra power, as Celebi would have little offensive presence otherwise. If initial power isn't a concern, simply pour the EVs into Defense for physical bulk. Because Celebi is played more defensively, Leftovers is basically a necessity for substantial healing.</p>

    <p>Although Calm Mind Celebi has an arguably easier time against revenge killers and some counters, it has coverage gaps that desperately need to be filled by other teammates. Again, using Hidden Power Fire with Giga Drain only means that Celebi will need additional insurance against opposing Fire-, Dragon-, and Flying-type Pokemon. Its problems are further worsened if it hasn't boosted enough times to sponge certain special attacks or break Substitutes, especially those from the likes of Heatran and Chandelure. A sturdy Water-type Pokemon with good coverage is a solution towards most of these threats, with Rotom-W being a prime teammate because of its access to Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave for Celebi's counters. Unfortunately, Latios, Latias, and Blissey will still raise issues even if Celebi conjured six boosts, so strong lures or Pursuit users are extremely necessary for Celebi to succeed in the long run.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In short, Celebi is somewhat limited in the offensive department. Swords Dance is generally inferior to Nasty Plot due to Celebi's small physical movepool, and it only has potential on a set using Baton Pass. Outside of Giga Drain, Celebi also has Energy Ball and Grass Knot to work with, the latter being able to hit Tyranitar, Milotic, and Suicune harder. However, Giga Drain is the most efficient option out of these three because of its recovering secondary effect, along with the fact that Giga Drain's base power is almost the same as Energy Ball's. Only consider Grass Knot if Celebi is in need of heavy damage.</p>

    <p>As opposed to its offensive options, Celebi has lots of support options. Celebi is a decent user of field effects, ranging from Trick Room, to Sunny Day, to Rain Dance. The latter two, however, can easily be set up by a permanent weather inducer such as Politoed or Ninetales. The only remotely useful weather move is Rain Dance, for the purpose of disrupting other weathers and setting up for Pokemon with the ability Swift Swim. Baton Pass is usable, but it is mostly outclassed my Mew, who has more options than Celebi can ever hope for. Other support moves include Heal Bell and Stealth Rock, one of which can replace a moveslot on defensive sets. Finally, Celebi has access to both Light Screen and Reflect, so a dual screen set with U-turn can be used to great effect. Celebi has a niche as a dual screen user because of its Grass / Psychic typing, though this in return gives Celebi many weaknesses.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>It's certainly a shame Celebi didn't receive Psyshock, for it would have definitely crippled some of its best counters in the game: Blissey and Eviolite Chansey. While both can't really do much to Celebi due to its access to many forms of recovery (including Natural Cure for status), their high Special Defense ensures that Celebi can't do much to them either. Additionally, many Dragon-type Pokemon, especially Latios, Latias, and Hydreigon, will wall Celebi if it lacks the appropriate coverage move for them. Even then, Latios and Latias will both use Celebi as setup fodder for a Calm Mind sweep. In general, Celebi's main problem is being walled since its coverage is limited to few moves, but be prepared if Celebi happens to pack Hidden Power Fire or Earth Power for your Steel-type Pokemon. It would be safe to scout the grass pixie's movepool before switching in the appropriate resist.</p>

    <p>Celebi's other main problem is its seven weaknesses, all of which can be exploited by a faster Pokemon if it cannot outspeed. Infernape, Gengar, Charizard, Tornadus, and Scolipede all have super effective STAB attacks to use against Celebi, making them amongst the best checks. Celebi must also be extremely wary of users of Pursuit and / or Choice Scarf, the most dangerous ones being Heracross, Scizor, and Tyranitar.</p>


    [​IMG] (2/2)
  21. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    744
    I used that set, i really love it! Nasty Plot on a switch means +2, and will OHKO with Leaf Storm. Psychic for the STAB, the fourth slot can be used for coverage with an Hidden Power, but Recover is a very useful move too

    [SET]
    name: Nasty Storm
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Psychic
    move 4: Recover / Hidden Power [Fire / Ice / Ground]
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
  22. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,684
    Leaf Storm is an "eh" option on Nasty Plot for obvious reasons.

    Other than that, I can officially declare Celebi (Done).
  23. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,124
    OVERVIEW:
    Fourth set (Choice), ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:
  24. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,994

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)