Celebi (Baton Pass Update) (GP 2/2)

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Sorry about this, everyone!

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Nasty Plot / Calm Mind / Substitute
move 3: Psychic / Giga Drain
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 192 SpD / 64 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While this might look like a dedicated Baton Pass set, in reality, it is a variation on the standard specially defensive Celebi. With its excellent defensive stats, reliable recovery, and Grass typing, Celebi takes on Water-types in rain as well as anything. Baton Pass is already a decent move on defensive Celebi even with nothing to pass, as it acts like U-turn while also allowing Celebi to escape Pursuit, so giving it a boosting move only requires a small investment—just one moveslot. Celebi is easily walled by a variety of Pokemon, as it lacks offensive investment and has STAB moves with poor neutral coverage. This set allows Celebi to do some real damage—by letting something else do it instead!</p>

<p>As for which boosting move to use, that depends largely on your team. Nasty Plot is probably the best option, as Special Attack boosts are most useful to Celebi and Choice Scarf Keldeo is by far the best receiver available. Calm Mind might allow Celebi to set up multiple boosts, or at least set up on powerful special attackers at lower risk. Substitute is useful to a wider variety of Pokemon, but will usually be broken as Celebi passes. It's a lower risk, lower reward option. Don't forget, of course, that you don't have to use your boosting move every time you bring Celebi in. The priority should generally be to maintain Celebi's health such that it can continue to wall special attackers. Lastly, you need to choose which STAB move to use. With the exception of Tyranitar, Psychic typically does more damage to Celebi's counters, but Giga Drain is still a good option, as it hits Tyranitar and Water-types harder and the recovery provided is handy.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>While of course you want as much investment in Special Defense as possible, some investment in Speed is sensible. In order to escape from Scizor and Tyranitar, Celebi needs to go first, after all. 32 Speed EVs put Celebi ahead of all Tyranitar, while 64 EVs allow Celebi to outrun all Scizor and Gothitelle. Especially with Calm Mind, even more Speed can be useful, as it allows Celebi to boost its Special Defense before taking a hit. As far as alternative moves go, Swords Dance is a decent option, which woud be run alongside Zen Headbutt or Seed Bomb. The physical STAB moves are certainly less effective than the special ones, however.</p>

<p>When picking your receivers, you should consider more than just which Pokemon would benefit the most from a boost to Special Attack or a Substitute. You need to consider which Pokemon are likely to switch into Celebi and which attacks they are likely to use. Most notably, Celebi attracts U-turn and Pursuit users, like Scizor and Tyranitar. Therefore, being able to take these moves comfortably is important. It's also worth noting that U-turn could leave your receiver facing a counter immediately—you want a receiver that is hard to counter, that can at least do some damage, even if it doesn't manage to sweep every time. The best receiver by far is Keldeo, particularly the Choice Scarf variant, thanks to its resistance to Dark and Bug, almost unmatched Speed, and phenomenal power. If rain should be up, virtually nothing short of a Water-immune Pokemon will stop it. Calm Mind receivers could perhaps even set up further; for example, an Agility Thundurus-T with boosts from both Calm Mind and Agility would be very potent. Receivers of Swords Dance can use priority moves for a potential sweep; Lucario, for instance, can do a lot of damage with +2 ExtremeSpeed, but often finds it tricky to set up a Swords Dance for itself (you should still give it Swords Dance though—receivers are best off self-sufficient). It's always worth packing a few decent recipients for flexibility. Remember, though, that this is a specially defensive Celebi first, so there are some great partners that are not necessarily the best receivers. Heatran, for instance, has typing that complements Celebi's perfectly from a defensive standpoint.</p>

<p>While it has been said that this variant is not designed for full Baton Pass teams, Celebi actually fits onto them rather well. Although Celebi's Psychic typing is far from ideal, compounding weaknesses with Espeon and Mr. Mime, the ability to take powerful Electric-type moves and boost Special Defense is very important, not to mention Celebi's stellar defensive capabilities. The main difference between this variant and the one listed is that Celebi should always run Calm Mind and Substitute, as on a dedicated Baton Pass team, protecting from critical hits is imperative. The last moveslot can be either Recover or Giga Drain, if you want an attack. Giga Drain is preferred to Psychic, as having no common Pokemon immune is a big deal, allowing Celebi to sweep more readily with a lot of boosts.</p>
 
Last edited:
GP check. Good job on writing this.
Additions in Blue
Subtractions in Red
Comments in Purple
[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Nasty Plot / Calm Mind / Substitute
move 3: Psychic / Giga Drain
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While this might look like a dedicated Baton Pass set, in reality, this is a variation on the standard Specially Defensive specially defensive Celebi. With its excellent defensive stats, reliable recovery, and Grass typing, Celebi takes on Water-types in rain as well as anything. Bearing in mind that Baton Pass is already a decent move on defensive Celebi even with nothing to pass, as it acts like U-turn while also allowing Celebi to escape Pursuit, passing and giving it a boosting move only requires a small investment—just one moveslot. Specially defensive Celebi is also easily walled by a variety of Pokemon, as it lacks offensive investment and has STAB moves with poor neutral coverage. This set allows Celebi to do some real damage—by letting something else do it for her!</p>

<p>As for which boosting move to use, that depends largely on your team. Nasty Plot is probably the best option, as Special Attack boosts are most useful to Celebi itself, (remove comma) and because Choice Scarf Keldeo is by far the best receiver available. Calm Mind might allow Celebi to set up multiple boosts, or at least set up on powerful special attackers at lower risk. Substitute is useful to a wider variety of Pokemon, (remove comma) but will usually be broken as you pass Celebi passes. It's a lower risk, lower reward option. Don't forget, of course, that you don't have to use your Celebi's boosting move every time you bring Celebi it in. The priority should generally be to maintain Celebi's health such that it can continue to wall special attackers. Lastly, you need to choose which STAB move to use: (change to semicolon or start new sentence) with the exception of Tyranitar, Psychic typically does more damage to Celebi's counters, although but Giga Drain is still a good option, as the recovery provided is handy.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p> While (remove space between <p> and While) of course you want as much investment in Special Defense as possible, some investment in Speed is sensible. In order to escape from Scizor and Tyranitar, Celebi needs to go first, (remove comma) after all. 32 Speed EVs puts put Celebi ahead of all Tyranitar, while 64 EVs allow Celebi to outrun all Scizor and Gothitelle (max Speed Scizor and Gothitelle are rare, but the consequences are severe when they do appear). Especially with Calm Mind, even more Speed can be useful, as it allows Celebi to boosts its Special Defense before taking a hit. As far as alternative moves go, Swords Dance is a decent option, along with Zen Headbutt/Seed Bomb Zen Headbutt or Seed Bomb. </p> (remove space before </p>)

<p> When (remove space between <p> and When) picking your receivers, you should consider more than just which Pokemon would benefit the most from a +2 (unless you're assuming you get two Calm Minds in, it's not always +2) boost to Special Attack or a Substitute. You need to consider which Pokemon are likely to switch into Celebi, (remove comma) and which attacks they are likely to use. Most notably, Celebi attracts U-turn users, like such as Scizor, and Pursuit users such as Tyranitar. Therefore, being able to take these moves comfortably is important. It's also worth noting that U-turn could leave your receiver facing a counter immediately—you want a receiver that is hard to counter, such that one that can at least it will do some damage, (remove comma) rather than trying even if it doesn't manage to sweep every time. The best receiver by far is Keldeo, particularly the Choice Scarf variant, thanks to its resistance to Dark and Bug, almost unmatched Speed, and phenomenal power. If rain should be up, virtually nothing short of water a Water immunity will stop it. Calm Mind receivers could perhaps even set up further – (change to semicolon or start new sentence) an Agility Thundurus-T with a Calm Mind boost could would be very scary to face. Receivers of Swords Dance can use priority moves for a potential sweep – (change to semicolon or start new sentence) Lucario, for instance, can do a lot of damage with a +2 ExtremeSpeed but often finds it tricky to set up a Swords Dance for itself (you should still give it Swords Dance though—receivers are best off self-sufficient). It's always worth packing a few decent recipients for flexibility. Remember, though, that this is a Specially Defensive specially defensive Celebi first, so there are some great partners that are not necessarily the best receivers. Heatran, for instance, has a typing that complements Celebi's perfectly from a defensive standpoint.</p>

<p>While it has been said that this variant is not designed for full Baton Pass teams, Celebi actually fits onto them rather well. Although Celebi's Psychic typing is far from ideal, doubling up weaknesses with Espeon and Mr Mr. Mime, the ability to take powerful Electric-type moves and to boost Special Defense is very important, not to mention Celebi's stellar stats. The main difference between this set here versus other types of teams (you can use a different phrasing here (I think mine might be a little awkward) but this seemed slightly unclear) is that Celebi it should always run Substitute and Calm Mind, as on a dedicated Baton Pass team, protecting protection from critical hits is imperative. The last moveslot can be either Recover or Giga Drain, both of which is are preferred to Psychic as recovery is necessary for this set to function, (remove comma) and Giga Drain having no common Pokemon immune to it is a big deal, allowing Celebi to sweep more easily/often/readily (choose one) with a lot of boosts.</p>


GP: 1/2
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Thanks Melvni, fixed nearly all of that.

Oh and did we ever decide that "an immunity" or "a typing" was acceptable? Certainly don't make much sense in standard English. I've left those unchanged for now.
 
analysis said:
Calm Mind receivers could perhaps even set up further; an Agility Thundurus-T with a Calm Mind boost could would be very scary to face
I'd just reword the bolded part to "An Agility Thundurus-T can make use of the Calm Mind boosts to have more bulk while setting up" or something like that because "scary to face" seems very informal. Just saying.
 

Jukain

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ignore @Kingler12345 on that, I don't think the change is optimal

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Nasty Plot / Calm Mind / Substitute
move 3: Psychic / Giga Drain
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While this might look like a dedicated Baton Pass set, in reality, ithis is a variation on the standard Sspecially Ddefensive Celebi. With its excellent defensive stats, reliable recovery, and Grass typing, Celebi takes on Water-types in rain asexceptionally well as anything. Baton Pass is already a decent move on defensive Celebi even with nothing to pass, as it acts like U-turn while also allowing Celebi to escape Pursuit, so giving it a boosting move only requires a small investmentsacrifice—just one moveslot. Celebi is typicalsoly easily walled by a variety of Pokemon, as it lacks offensive investment and has STAB moves with poor neutral coverage. This set allows Celebi to do some real damage—by letting something else do it instead!</p>

i would specifically mention that this set enables celebi to fit better on offensive teams, which is pretty cool considering it's a keldeo counter

<p>As for which boosting move to use, &mdash;that depends largely on your team. Nasty Plot is probably the best option, as Special Attack boosts are most useful to Celebi, and Choice Scarf Keldeo is by far the best receiver available. Calm Mind might allow Celebi to set up multiple boosts, or at least set up on powerful special attackers atwith a lower risk. Substitute is useful to a wider variety of Pokemon, but will usually be broken as Celebi passes. It's a lower risk, lower reward option. Don't forget, of course, that you don't have to use your boosting move every time you bring Celebi in. The priority should generally be to maintain Celebi's health such that it can continue to wall special attackers. Lastly, you need to choose which STAB move to use. With the exception of Tyranitar, Psychic typically does more damage to Celebi's counters, but Giga Drain is still a good option, as the recovery provided iin addition to coverage on Tyranitar and Water-types are handy.</p>

the last bit i thought was a useful bit of information...feel free to disregard if you don't agree

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>While of course you want as much investment in Special Defense as possible, some investment in Speed is sensible. In order to escape from Scizor and Tyranitar, Celebi needs to go first, after all. 32 Speed EVs put Celebi ahead of all Tyranitar, while 64 EVs allow Celebi to outrun all Scizor and Gothitelle (max Speed Scizor and Gothitelle are rare, but the consequences are severe when they do appear). Especially with Calm Mind, even more Speed can be useful, as it allows Celebi to boosts its Special Defense before taking a hit. examples? As far as alternative moves go, Swords Dance is a decent option, which would be run along withside Zen Headbutt/Seed Bomb.</p> and Seed Bomb.</p>

max speed scizor is pretty damn common what with acrobatics sd being extremely prevalent...i would reconsider whether 64 or 32 is the main speed -- also insofar as swords dance mention its flaws!!!


<p>When picking your receivers, you should consider more than just which Pokemon would benefit the most from a boost to Special Attack or a Substitute. You need to consider which Pokemon are likely to switch into Celebi and which attacks they are likely to use. Most notably, Celebi attracts U-turn users, likesuch as Scizor, and Pursuit users, such as Tyranitar "and Weavile"? -- this just needs at least one other example i think. Therefore, being able to take these moves comfortably is important. It's also worth noting that U-turn could leave your receiver facing a counter immediately—you want a receiver that is hard to counter, one that can at least do some damage, even if it doesn't manage to sweep every time. The best receiver by far is Keldeo, particularly the Choice Scarf variant, thanks to its resistances to Dark and Bug, almost unmatched Speed, and phenomenal power. If rain should be up, virtually nothing short of a Water-immune Pokemon will stop it. Calm Mind receivers could perhaps even set up further; for example, an Agility Thundurus-T with aboosts from both Calm Mind boost cand Agility would be very scarypotent. Receivers of Swords Dance can use priority moves for a potential sweep; Lucario, for instance, can do a lot of damage with +2 ExtremeSpeed, but often finds it tricky to set up a Swords Dance for itself (you should still give it Swords Dance though—receivers are best off self-sufficient). It's always worth packing a few decent recipients for flexibility. Remember, though, that this is a Sspecially Ddefensive Celebi first, so there are some great partners that are not necessarily the best receivers. Heatran, for instance, has typing that complements Celebi's perfectly from a defensive standpoint. this ended very abruptly...perhaps mention another example or two?</p>

<p>While it has been said that this variant is not designed for full Baton Pass teams, Celebi actually fits onto them rather well. Although Celebi's Psychic typing is far from ideal, doublcompounding up weaknesses with Espeon and Mr. Mime, the ability to take powerful Electric-type moves and to boost Special Defense is very importantuseful, not to mention Celebi's stellar statdefensive capabilities. The main difference between this variant and the one listed is that Celebi should always run Calm Mind and Substitute, as on a dedicated Baton Pass team, protecting from critical hits is imperative. The last moveslot can be either Recover or Giga Drain, which is preferred to Psychic if you want an attack, as having no common Pokemon immune is a big deal, allowing Celebi to sweep more readily with a lot of boosts./</p>

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Nasty Plot / Calm Mind / Substitute
move 3: Psychic / Giga Drain
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While this might look like a dedicated Baton Pass set, in reality, it is a variation on the standard specially defensive Celebi. With its excellent defensive stats, reliable recovery, and Grass typing, Celebi takes on Water-types in rain exceptionally well. Baton Pass is already a decent move on defensive Celebi even with nothing to pass, as it acts like U-turn while also allowing Celebi to escape Pursuit, so giving it a boosting move only requires a small sacrifice—just one moveslot. Celebi is typically easily walled by a variety of Pokemon, as it lacks offensive investment and has STAB moves with poor neutral coverage. This set allows Celebi to do some real damage—by letting something else do it instead!</p>

i would specifically mention that this set enables celebi to fit better on offensive teams, which is pretty cool considering it's a keldeo counter

<p>As for which boosting move to use&mdash;that depends largely on your team. Nasty Plot is probably the best option, as Special Attack boosts are most useful to Celebi, and Choice Scarf Keldeo is by far the best receiver available. Calm Mind might allow Celebi to set up multiple boosts, or at least set up on powerful special attackers with a lower risk. Substitute is useful to a wider variety of Pokemon, but will usually be broken as Celebi passes. It's a lower risk, lower reward option. Don't forget, of course, that you don't have to use your boosting move every time you bring Celebi in. The priority should generally be to maintain Celebi's health such that it can continue to wall special attackers. Lastly, you need to choose which STAB move to use. With the exception of Tyranitar, Psychic typically does more damage to Celebi's counters, but Giga Drain is still a good option, as the recovery in addition to coverage on Tyranitar and Water-types are handy.</p>

the last bit i thought was a useful bit of information...feel free to disregard if you don't agree

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>While of course you want as much investment in Special Defense as possible, some investment in Speed is sensible. In order to escape from Scizor and Tyranitar, Celebi needs to go first, after all. 32 Speed EVs put Celebi ahead of all Tyranitar, while 64 EVs allow Celebi to outrun all Scizor and Gothitelle (max Speed Scizor and Gothitelle are rare, but the consequences are severe when they do appear). Especially with Calm Mind, even more Speed can be useful, as it allows Celebi to boosts its Special Defense before taking a hit. examples? As far as alternative moves go, Swords Dance is a decent option, which would be run alongside Zen Headbutt and Seed Bomb.</p>

max speed scizor is pretty damn common what with acrobatics sd being extremely prevalent...i would reconsider whether 64 or 32 is the main speed -- also insofar as swords dance mention its flaws!!!

<p>When picking your receivers, you should consider more than just which Pokemon would benefit the most from a boost to Special Attack or a Substitute. You need to consider which Pokemon are likely to switch into Celebi and which attacks they are likely to use. Most notably, Celebi attracts U-turn users, such as Scizor, and Pursuit users, such as Tyranitar "and Weavile"? -- this just needs at least one other example i think. Therefore, being able to take these moves comfortably is important. It's also worth noting that U-turn could leave your receiver facing a counter immediately—you want a receiver that is hard to counter that can at least do some damage, even if it doesn't manage to sweep every time. The best receiver by far is Keldeo, particularly the Choice Scarf variant, thanks to its resistances to Dark and Bug, almost unmatched Speed, and phenomenal power. If rain should be up, virtually nothing short of a Water-immune Pokemon will stop it. Calm Mind receivers could perhaps even set up further; for example, an Agility Thundurus-T with boosts from both Calm Mind and Agility would be very potent. Receivers of Swords Dance can use priority moves for a potential sweep; Lucario, for instance, can do a lot of damage with +2 ExtremeSpeed, but often finds it tricky to set up a Swords Dance for itself (you should still give it Swords Dance though—receivers are best off self-sufficient). It's always worth packing a few decent recipients for flexibility. Remember, though, that this is a specially defensive Celebi first, so there are some great partners that are not necessarily the best receivers. Heatran, for instance, has typing that complements Celebi's perfectly from a defensive standpoint. this ended very abruptly...perhaps mention another example or two?</p>

<p>While it has been said that this variant is not designed for full Baton Pass teams, Celebi actually fits onto them rather well. Although Celebi's Psychic typing is far from ideal, compounding weaknesses with Espeon and Mr. Mime, the ability to take powerful Electric-type moves and boost Special Defense is very useful, not to mention Celebi's stellar defensive capabilities. The main difference between this variant and the one listed is that Celebi should always run Calm Mind and Substitute, as on a dedicated Baton Pass team, protecting from critical hits is imperative. The last moveslot can be either Recover or Giga Drain, which is preferred to Psychic if you want an attack, as having no common Pokemon immune is a big deal, allowing Celebi to sweep more readily with a lot of boosts/</p>


gp 2/2
 
Last edited:

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Very sleepy so will fix in the morning but thought I would address the content suggestions.

I agree about the offensive teams thing. The key thing with this celebi is that it doesn't kill momentum.

Truth be told, Swords Dance doesn't really have any flaws, except possibly that Zen Headbutt is a crap move. NP is really just listed because Keldeo is a better receiver than any of the SD receivers.

As for the Speed thing, max Speed scizor was certainly not common when I wrote the skeleton. I haven't been playing too much recently, either, but apparently it is now, so I'm going to add 32 more Speed to the set.

I'm not going to mention Weavile. You're screwed against weavile whatever you do. I'll probably just leave it as "tyranitar" rather than "pursuit users, such as Tyranitar"
 
@jc104
Especially with Calm Mind, even more Speed can be useful, as it allows Celebi to boosts its Special Defense before taking a hit
Dunno how it got through GP, but might wanna fix that. Aside from that I didn't see anything wrong with grammar. Again, great job.
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Difficult one. The set has sub slashed, and running 248 HP takes away 101 subs. This sort of stuff is not really worth mentioning in the comments, because it makes a very small difference and is overly technical. Therefore I think it's probably just better to leave it out. Don't get me wrong though, you are right.
 
Difficult one. The set has sub slashed, and running 248 HP takes away 101 subs. This sort of stuff is not really worth mentioning in the comments, because it makes a very small difference and is overly technical. Therefore I think it's probably just better to leave it out. Don't get me wrong though, you are right.
Forgot 101 HP subs. Yeah then 252 HP is better.
 

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