Celebi (Special Attacker + U-turn)

AccidentalGreed

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So I'm looking at the statistics, then the fourth generation Celebi analysis. I decide to give this a whirl, and I think: "Why did we ignore this?"

oh that's right Excadrill was immune to Thunder Wave and used X-scissor. Great.

Status: Written

QC Approvals (3/3): (PK Gaming) (Pocket) (Wilson46)

GP Approvals (2/2): (Engineer Pikachu) (Shame That + Sir)
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I'm officially revoking your right to use a counter.

[SET]
name: Navi (Non-Choiced Attacker)
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Earth Power / U-turn
move 4: U-turn / Recover
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 176 HP / 152 SpA / 180 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although Celebi is commonly seen using Nasty Plot to pose a threat, it is perfectly capable of functioning offensively without the use of boosting moves, as proven by the TinkerBell set. Like its sister set, Navi also operates on a hit-and-run basis, but the main difference between the two is this set's emphasis on utility and momentum rather than support. Moreover, Navi isn't quite as straightforward as Tinkerbell in terms of options; if you want it to function well on its team, a little mixing and matching between Celebi's moves is required. This largely depends on the offensive support its teammates can provide it. The most important move on this set is arguably U-turn, which turns Celebi into a valuable "glue" Pokemon with solid defenses, typing, and offensive prowess. U-turn also allows Celebi to scout out potential counters and switch-ins during a turn, giving you the opportunity to respond depending on the opponent's actions.</p>

<p>Besides the mandatory Leaf Storm, which is used for initial power, Celebi has to choose between a few moves in the last three slots. A Hidden Power is mandatory due to Celebi's limited coverage, but choosing one will leave Celebi susceptible to certain Pokemon—Dragon-types should you choose Hidden Power Fire, and Steel-types neutral to Fire if you choose Hidden Power Ice. In the third slot, Earth Power provides coverage against a number of Fire-types and other Steel-types, especially Heatran. Remember that U-turn gives Celebi a means of escaping such Pokemon and switching to a check or counter of your own. Recover can be used for recovery against repeated attacks and Life Orb recoil, but using it costs a valuable coverage move. A set with three attacks and a recovery may seem obvious, but Shaymin can perform the same set (with arguably less exploitable weaknesses to boot) and not using U-turn goes against the nature of this set. Of course, when using both Recover and U-turn, Celebi will require more offensive support, so take these factors as you will.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread provided, along with a Modest nature, allows Celebi to outrun all neutral base 90s, while yielding three more Special Attack points than it would with a Timid nature and maximized Special Attack. If you are considering using other EV spreads, keep in mind that because of U-turn (which requires Celebi to be fast) and the lack of Thunder Wave, this set requires more speed than usual. An EV spread that can give Celebi a mix of power, bulk, and Speed is ideal for upholding Celebi's role as a utility Pokemon. Of course, Celebi can simply maximize both Special Attack and Speed with either the Modest or Timid natures, at the cost of bulk. Long story short, the first thing you should consider is which targets Celebi should outrun, and the rest of the EVs and nature comes down to personal preference.</p>

<p>Leftovers is recommended over Life Orb because Celebi often takes repeated hits, and the beneficial recovery can help Celebi in disguising itself as a defensive set and luring in targets. Life Orb, of course, can be used for the additional power, and should be complemented with Recover. Other than the item choice, there are several other move options to consider. Celebi has the distinction of being bulky and flexible enough to set up Stealth Rock if your team requires quick entry hazard support. Psychic is decent STAB option for the second or third slots, capable of dealing hard hits to many threats without lowering Celebi's Special Attack. Psychic also hits many threats, such as Conkeldurr, Tentacruel, and Volcarona, harder than its standard options. Last but not least, Baton Pass is also usable over U-turn for escaping Pursuit users more safely, but passing Special Attack decreases from Leaf Storm may prove to be disadvantageous if the receiver is also a special attacker.</p>

<p>The usual matter of limited coverage also applies to this set, but U-turn somewhat mitigates this issue, as Celebi can identify and scout out possible threats. As a matter of fact, this set works extremely well with "trap" Pokemon; to specify, some of Celebi's biggest checks and counters can be trapped and eliminated by Pokemon with Pursuit, Arena Trap, or Magnet Pull. This is made even better by U-turn, ensuring that your opponent can't outpredict you by shifting Pokemon, therefore making the task of trapping and killing even easier. For instance, many Steel-types, especially Scizor and Skarmory, may attempt to set up on a -2 SpA Celebi, but after Celebi uses U-turn, they may find themselves begging for mercy in the presence of Magnezone (preferably one with Volt Switch to complete the VoltTurn combination). The same situation applies to Dugtrio (for trapping Heatran and Tyranitar) and a Tyranitar or Scizor with Pursuit (for Latias, Latios, and various other Psychic-types). Rapid Spin users are also recommended as teammates, since Celebi will switch in and out repeatedly, and will thus run into entry hazards.</p>
 

Nova

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Yes this set is effctive, idk why it's not on site yet. Personally I prefer a bulkier spread of 252 HP / 212 SpA /40 Spd Modest, which is the slowest spread with HP Fire that still outspeeds the standard Gliscor, so it can switch in more but the offensive take is nice too. Btw can you link me to the latest moveset statistics?
 

AccidentalGreed

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The moveset statistics...which is sadly a month behind, but I still think it provides valuable info since the only difference is that Deoxys-S was banned (there's issues with the server apparently, but feel free to ask around). As you can see, there's a similar Celebi set that uses U-Turn + Recover, which rubs me the wrong way since, well, TinkerBell exists.

As for other options, if other will agree, I think a mention for Stealth Rock suffices.
 

BurningMan

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isn`t Leaf Storm+Baton Pass kinda stupid when you got U-Turn wich is alot better considering you're not passing any boosts anyway?

Sure escaping Pursuit is nice, but it really sucks not being able to escape to a special attacker after using Leaf Storm.
 
Yeah, I think that Baton Pass should go to the AC. If you use Leaf Storm, the -2 can be really annoying. Of course, you can escape Pursuit, but it will cost your switch in. This would be a cool Volt-Turn set, though. Other than Baton Pass, it looks good!
 
Yeah I've been using this on tons of teams, this Celebi is amazing against all kinds of things. You should really mention Psychic over Earth Power as an alternative, it helps hit a lot of threats for neutral damage and gives Celebi a solid STAB move that won't lower its Special Attack. When you write it up, you should also probably mention that Celebi is especially fantastic on a "trap team" with some of Dugtrio/Magnezone/Tyranitar, who can pretty much remove all of her most popular checks and counters between them (Scizor, Jirachi, Skarmory, Tyranitar, general Fire-types, as well as Ferrothorn and Heatran if Celebi is running HP Ice/Psychic, and the Lati twins). It works even better because of U-turn.

I don't like Life Orb because I use Celebi to switch in as a Water resist, but I can see its use. That's more personal preference I guess.
 
Pretty good set. I would just mention Psychic in the AC to hit Conkeldurr and Tentacruel much harder, should your team be weak to them.
 

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
Recover is the best move that Celebi has, as it lets it actually survive against repeated rain Hydro Pumps from Rotom-w or Focus Punches from Breloom. It should be staple in every Celebi set, in my opinion, as Celebi is a defensive Pokemon more than anything.
 

franky

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recover is a must, probably a better option over earth power because u-turn alleviates tran problems. . .

leaf storm / hp fire or ice sub slash / u-turn / recover

is your best bet with psychic and earth power for additional comments
 

AccidentalGreed

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Okay.
Super Mario Bro said:
Recover is the best move that Celebi has, as it lets it actually survive against repeated rain Hydro Pumps from Rotom-w or Focus Punches from Breloom. It should be staple in every Celebi set, in my opinion, as Celebi is a defensive Pokemon more than anything.
I trust your word on this since I know you've experimented with it. Passive damage also tends to add up on these kind of attackers (enemy attacks notwithstanding), so Recover's there.

franky said:
recover is a must, probably a better option over earth power because u-turn alleviates tran problems. . .

leaf storm / hp fire or ice sub slash / u-turn / recover

is your best bet with psychic and earth power for additional comments
It really depends on what kind of Celebi suits the team. For instance, I find that the combination of U-turn + Earth Power allows Celebi to scout out Heatran, break its Balloon (if it has one), and if it's still alive, either send in a counter or Earth Power when Celebi comes in again. For myself, I'd like to achieve coverage; however, I'll be sure to mention the perks and downers of using certain combinations of utility moves.
 

TrollFreak

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Imo, could'nt a Choice Specs also work with this set

With 3 coverage attacks and U-Turn, this varient is also a great Choice Specs user, as it hits much harder than Life Orb can
 

Pocket

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I second twash that Psychic can be a very powerful STAB neutral coverage with Leaf Storm, hitting Infernape, Ninetales, Volcarona, Haxorus, Dragonite, Gengar, Virizion, and Tornadus surprisingly hard.

I'd lose the U-turn slashed with Earth Power and slash Psychic instead. I'd also remove Recover and mention it in AC. Just makes it more aesthetically pleasing, imo.
 
haha I've been using this kind of Celebi for months.

Anyway, sorry Pocket, but Celebi really wants Recover in order to handle Rain and Volt-Turn combos as efficiently as possible. I would leave it slashed in, but if we're going for pure offensive as the main, then why not just remove the second U-Turn and slash Recover with Earth Power?

I've been running 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe with Leaf Storm / HP Fire / Recover / U-turn. The bulk makes Celebi a much better switchin to Rotom, as a rain boosted Hydro Pump will hurt like fuck without it. Since Celebi is the best switch in to Ferrothorn for most pivot teams, the bulk over speed is also much more appreciated since it means that Gyro Ball will be doing less damage. 44 Spe is to outspeed Bulky NP Celebi. I've been running Modest max SpA, since it beats SpD Scizor, which the Tinkerbell set will not (iirc, not too sure).

About Psychic, if Celebi is offensive, it should be slashed in after Earth Power imo. The order should be Earth Power / Psychic / Recover.
 

AccidentalGreed

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There's many ways to go about this type of Celebi, so in the writeup, I'll mention that you can mix-and-match depending on what your team needs. Some people like U-turn + Recover, some like U-turn + Three attacks, and for some, maybe a hybrid with different attacks and item. Psychic and Stealth Rock (I've seen Taylor work it) are definitely worth mention.
 

AccidentalGreed

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why not just slash on u-turn on the tinkerbell set
1. The Tinkerbell wants to run a minimum amount of Speed EVs, whereas players can opt to use a significant amount on this kind of Celebi. Max Speed + Tinkerbell = nono. These sets kinda have different purposes.

2. It depends on which slot you're referring to for the slash, but the TinkerBell set is a specialized formula. It's supposed to support and hit hard while not caring about resisted attacks thanks to Recover.
 

PK Gaming

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This set is really common now, and i've even seen it in a lot tournament games. Its a bit slashy, but I think we can make an exception here. I think this set could use a better name. All out special attacker or... a custom of name of your choice (within reason) could work. I'd probably call it Navi or Fi, due to how annoying this set is hehe.

QC APPROVED (1/3)
 

Pocket

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I would strongly suggest mentioning the more defensive slower spread 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe, Modest Nature or 176 HP / 252 SpA / 80 Spe, Timid Nature under AC so that Celebi has some more usable bulk to sponge Water / Electric / Fighting / Ground / Psychic hits. The former lets Celebi outrun up to Timid SpecsToed (and by extension Dragonite, Gyarados, etc), while the latter lets Celebi check up to SD Lucario. Celebi can outrun Adamant Lucario with Modest Nature, but Timid saves more EVs for HP.

What about "Offensive Scouter" as its name? Out of all the moves, U-turn is the most unique.
 

AccidentalGreed

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Yeah, I'll come up with a good name later unless somebody creative beats me to it.

That aside, those EV spreads look great, so I'll be sure to give a large mention for them to the AC. Thanks for the first check, PK.
 

Super Mario Bro

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I would like to point out that the 176 HP / 252 SpA / 80 Spe Timid spread in AC is outclassed by 176 HP / 156 SpA / 176 Spe Modest, which yields 3 more points in SpA and 1 less point in speed. Then again, I don't really see why it would need that extra point because 280 is just enough to outrun Adamant Lucario anyway.
 

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