Celebi [QC 2/3]

QC checks: Jukain / Dice /
GP checks: /

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Overview
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+Solid base stats
+Wide variety in its move pool
+Nasty Plot + Baton pass
+Powerful STAB moves
+One of the only offensive Grass types and the only one that fits on Hyper Offense
+Great ability
-Weak to two of the most common types in Dark and Ghost
-Quite weak without Nasty Plot up
-Hard to find a slot on a team due to typing and generally being outclassed in almost everything

SpeciallyDefensive
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name: SpeciallyDefensive
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Recover
move 4: Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
ability: Natural Cure
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Calm

Moves
========

- Baton Pass is mainly for escaping Pursuit trappers, but can also be used to swap out during the turn and maintain momentum.
- Psychic is the only attacking move and STAB used on this set and allows the user to hit a wide variety of Pokemon.
- Recover is for longevity, to make sure you can stay alive to continue to set up hazards or induce status.
- Celebi makes good use of Stealth Rocks as it is one of the only Grass type Pokemon with this move and certainly the only offensive user in OU.
- Thunder Wave can be used to cripple faster threats to allow your own to have a greater shot at sweeping.
- Heal Bell can be used to keep the team healthy and Celebi is one of the only clerics that fits into Hyper Offensive teams.
- Perish Song can be used if you are in need of an answer to set up sweepers such as Swords Dance Aegislash or Calm Mind Clefable.
- Nasty Plot can also be used on this set as it pairs exceptionally well with Baton Pass and can pass +2 Special Attack to a teammate.
- Healing Wish is absolutely great when paired with offensive sweepers as it fully heals them at the expense of Celebi's life.
- Swords Dance is fun to use and can be insanely useful on a team with several physical threats.

Set Details
========

- Leftovers is for passive recovery every turn.
- Maximize HP in order to increase survivability.
- 36 EVs go into Speed to out pace most Bisharp and Tyranitar variants and Baton Pass out before they can Pursuit trap.
- The rest go into Special Defense to rank hits from OU powerhouses like Keldeo or Landorus.
- Calm increases Special Defense at the expense of Attack.
- Natural Cure is the only ability Celebi gets, but it makes great use of it absorbing status over and over.

Usage Tips
========

- Use Stealth Rock or Thunder Wave after swapping in on something you force out (Keldeo for example). You get what are commonly referred to as free turns and can make use of this by setting up hazards or crippling an incoming threat.
- Use Baton Pass if you feel the opponent is going to swap out or if you think they will try and trap you. Baton Pass bypasses Pursuit as it occurs during the turn and not before.
- You don't find too many free turns to work with, but use them all quite well by having moves like Heal Bell, Recover or Nasty Plot.
- This set can swap in numerous times on Pokemon like Rotom-Wash, Keldeo, and Landorus but make sure to scout for moves like Knock Off or Icy Wind beforehand.

Team Options
========

- Set up sweepers such as Azumarill or Mega Mawile can repeatedly set up (more so Mawile than Azumarill) and don't have to worry about getting statused if Celebi is packing Heal Bell.
- Offensive sand teams really appreciate a water resist and an offensive Grass type as well as the fact that it compliments Keldeo, Landorus, and Tyranitar extremely well.
- Dark or Fighting types pair well with Celebi; specifically Bisharp and Keldeo as they resist all of Celebi's weaknesses and threaten a lot of Celebi's checks and counters.
- Specially offensive threats like Keldeo or Landorus also appreciate a necessary a nice +2 in Special Attack if Celebi is using a Nasty Pass set and make great use of a boost as they are already quite fast.
- Bulky Electric types really help against bird spam teams and most can also be solid Nasty Plot receivers.

NastyPlot
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name: NastyPlot
move 1: Earth Power
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Nasty Plot
move 4: Psychic
ability: Natural Cure
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SAtk / 216 Spe / 40 HP
nature: Modest / Timid

Moves
========

- Earth Power offers you a way to hit Pokemon that normally wall or threaten you such as Aegislash, Heatran, and Bisharp.
- Giga Drain is your secondary STAB and your form of recovery.
- Nasty Plot enables you to boost your Special Attack by two stages and proceed to blow holes in your opponents team.
- Psychic is your primary STAB and usually the move you spam the most.
- Hidden Power Fire can be used over Earth Power if you lack a decent Scizor swap in or want to lure him out and kill him for a teammate.

Set Details
========

- Life Orb allows you to hit the hardest you possibly can while still being able to choose which move you want to use each turn.
- Natural Cure is its only ability, but allows Celebi to not be stopped by status' and absorb status for teammates.
- The EVs are typical and aim to try and out speed anything you can while still hitting like a truck.
- Timid Nature boosts your Speed that much more, while sacrificing some Attack.

Usage Tips
========

- Use Nasty Plot on a turn where you force your opponent out to get up easy boosts.
- This set requires little prediction and i easy to use as it is based on a simple concept, boost and kill.

Team Options
========

- This set is more for Hyper Offensive teams, but still pair well with Keldeo, Landorus, Bisharp, and Tyranitar (all of which are commonly found on HO teams).
- Talonflame makes an exceptional partner to this set because it lures in Rotom-Wash and Heatran that Celebi can take down, while Celebi lures in Mega Scizor which Talonflame can easily dispose of.

Other Options
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- Magic Coat can be used on the Specially Defensive set to bounce back moves like Taunt, which severely hurt that set.
- U-turn is a cool, hipster move to run because it allows you to gain momentum and do damage at the same time, but is generally outclassed by Baton Pass because you don't have to worry about your Attack EVs as much.
- Leech Seed can be used if you want more recovery than just Leftovers and can be great for whittling down opponents in preparation for a late game sweep.

Checks & Counters
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**Fast Taunt**: Things like Sableye or Thundurus can cause massive trouble for the Specially Defensive version of Celebi. Three quarters of its moves are non attacking moves and both of these Pokemon can Taunt Celebi well before it's able to use any of them. Fortunately in Thundurus' case it is still somewhat damaged by Psychic, but Sableye has Psychic immunity meaning it completely counters that set and forces it out.
**Skarmory**: Skarmory can set up hazards, phaze out Celebi, Taunt it, or simply attack it if it packs Brave Bird without the slightest concern if Celebi isn't carrying Hidden Power Fire. Skarmory takes next to no damage from any of its other moves and can simply Roost off any hazard or passive damage that racked up earlier on in the match.
**Scizor / Mega Scizor**: If you don't use Hidden Power Fire or if you don't have multiple boosts up, you will have a tough time defeating Mega Scizor. It has high bulk, reliable recovery and multiple moves that are super effective to Celebi.
**Ferrothorn**: Same as Scizor in the respect that you pretty much need Hidden Power Fire or multiple boosts to beat it, but Ferrothorn doesn't have reliable recovery and more often than not won't have a move super effective to you.
**Talonflame**: It has priority on all of its Flying type moves and usually carries three attacks that all hit Celebi for super effective damage. If you can predict a Roost and Earth Power it or predict it to swap in and Psychic, then you have a chance of beating it. Other than that it's just a miserable match up.
 
Last edited:

Jukain

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reposting from reservation thread

i also think the modest spread is better for np considering the speed isn't really all that important while the power can be relevant like you get an 81.3% chance to ohko mega ttar in the sand with +2 giga, guaranteed ohko on aegi with +2 ep, and good chance to ohko mega maw after rocks pre-boost. i haven't done extensive calcs but just in my experience using it modest > timid. the only real thing that you're doing with timid is tying char y which is w/e.

dice agreed btw
 
Maybe mention a physically defensive spread in Other Options? It's a pretty cool defensive check to a couple of things like Life Orb Terrakion and Mega Gyarados (provided you run Giga Drain > Psychic), but being able to beat things like Landorus, Thundurus, and Keldeo more easily with the specially defensive spread is obviously really important.
 
Maybe mention a physically defensive spread in Other Options? It's a pretty cool defensive check to a couple of things like Life Orb Terrakion and Mega Gyarados (provided you run Giga Drain > Psychic), but being able to beat things like Landorus, Thundurus, and Keldeo more easily with the specially defensive spread is obviously really important.
never really used physically defensive this gen, but I could see it in oo. I'll wait for some QC opinions before moving further. Also edited some stuff for the two above problems.
 
You can add that Celebi is probably the best counter to Keldeo and Rotom-W, which are everywhere.

At best :
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

An Heal Bell set is not good ? (same spread as the specially defensive, recover, heal bell, giga drain, psychic ?).
 
Not sure if i've missed some discussions on this, but there's no mention of NastyPass at all. Admittedly, I haven't use it at all this gen so this is complete theorymon, but I'd imagine BP could be worth a mention in the Moves section of the offensive set, or at least OO
 
Not sure if i've missed some discussions on this, but there's no mention of NastyPass at all. Admittedly, I haven't use it at all this gen so this is complete theorymon, but I'd imagine BP could be worth a mention in the Moves section of the offensive set, or at least OO
Nasty Plot is mentioned in the first set in the moves category. It can be used over Stealth Rock or Thunder Wave.
 

Jukain

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Mention Healing Wish in Moves of SDef it's pretty cool for obvious reasons.

Mention what SDef can beat! Land, Keld, Rotom, etc. Sheer bulk can even let it check things like Mega TTar, Mega Gyarados, and Latios to cripple with TWave if it's at high health.

Teammates for SDef: Zapdos/Rotom/TTar because of Birds which Celebi doesn't like, swaps for TTar/Bisharp as you Baton Pass out. Hippowdon is a good one, there are obviously others.

qc 1/3
 
I seriously think that the NP set should only be considered viable if used in conjunction with BP. Celebi's typing is one of the worst in the game being as bad as grass/ice, it's not that powerful even after an NP, its speed is underwhelming as a sweeper, it's stabs aren't so good offensively, and there's no reason to use it over Manaphy as a sweeper.
 

Jukain

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I seriously think that the NP set should only be considered viable if used in conjunction with BP. Celebi's typing is one of the worst in the game being as bad as grass/ice, it's not that powerful even after an NP, its speed is underwhelming as a sweeper, it's stabs aren't so good offensively, and there's no reason to use it over Manaphy as a sweeper.
NP Celebi actually does really well. It's rather anti-meta, able to handle things like Keld Lando etc and set up and OHKO Aegislash with Earth Power. Unlike Manaphy it has actual recovery with its set (Giga Drain) and can get past defensive Grass/Poisons (especially Mega Venusaur) as well as defensive Waters fairly handily and isn't as weak to revenge kills from things like Specs Keldeo and Thundurus.
 
NP Celebi actually does really well. It's rather anti-meta, able to handle things like Keld Lando etc and set up and OHKO Aegislash with Earth Power. Unlike Manaphy it has actual recovery with its set (Giga Drain) and can get past defensive Grass/Poisons (especially Mega Venusaur) as well as defensive Waters fairly handily and isn't as weak to revenge kills from things like Specs Keldeo and Thundurus.
I'll give it some more testing.
 
NP Celebi actually does really well. It's rather anti-meta, able to handle things like Keld Lando etc and set up and OHKO Aegislash with Earth Power. Unlike Manaphy it has actual recovery with its set (Giga Drain) and can get past defensive Grass/Poisons (especially Mega Venusaur) as well as defensive Waters fairly handily and isn't as weak to revenge kills from things like Specs Keldeo and Thundurus.
I've done testing by centering a team around NP Celebi and I found that since it as 6 weaknesses and one 4 times weakness 90% of the time in a battle Celebi's teammates would be taking those hits for it while Celebi does sweet FA. Then once Celebi gets a chance to do something it hardly does anything because of its lackluster dual stabs, underwhelming base 100 SpA and speed, and what does its bulk matter when every single pokemon on the enemy team at least carries a coverage move that can hit you SE? You also say that it does well against Landorus but that's unreliable since both forms of lando can carry Knock Off and U-turn. I will test more though.
 
np celebi is fine

add swords dance to the baton pass set in the moves section -- it's kinda fun
 

Jukain

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ok, so i was gonna bring this up, but kept putting it off until ben gay just pm'd me about it so i'll post now

phys def celebi is really good, possibly even better than spdef. its unparalleled supporting capabilities let it do something for almost any team, and it covers things offense tends to have trouble with. it already beats keld land thund etc thanks to ita typing, which is basically what spdef does, but physical checks things like azumarill, excadrill, breloom, terrakion, and non-sd chomp. the added dimension of dealing with these threats makes that set better i think and it'll only get better if/when aegi leaves. btw this set should be using giga to hit the waters/grounds.

mention that psong is mainly for crocune and fable, sd aegi ?_? o and subpass is good, hugo/aim used in wcop, you get free switches for different offensive mons, espec things like megacham and char y that offensive teams will often be forced to sac a mon to beat.
 
Maybe consider adding dedicated Baton pass set ? Celebi has pretty decent base speed and LOTS of possible stuff to Baton Pass (Swords Dance, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, etc. etc.) and Celebi can find free turns with his resistances. Simple Max HP / Max Speed will work out here. I think this deserves at least OO mention. And BTW what happened to Tinkerbell set ? Not viable anymore (asking because I didn't use it in a while) ?
 
ok, so i was gonna bring this up, but kept putting it off until ben gay just pm'd me about it so i'll post now

phys def celebi is really good, possibly even better than spdef. its unparalleled supporting capabilities let it do something for almost any team, and it covers things offense tends to have trouble with. it already beats keld land thund etc thanks to ita typing, which is basically what spdef does, but physical checks things like azumarill, excadrill, breloom, terrakion, and non-sd chomp. the added dimension of dealing with these threats makes that set better i think and it'll only get better if/when aegi leaves. btw this set should be using giga to hit the waters/grounds.

mention that psong is mainly for crocune and fable, sd aegi ?_? o and subpass is good, hugo/aim used in wcop, you get free switches for different offensive mons, espec things like megacham and char y that offensive teams will often be forced to sac a mon to beat.
do you mean phys def gets its own set or that it replaces spec def?
np celebi is fine

add swords dance to the baton pass set in the moves section -- it's kinda fun
done
Maybe consider adding dedicated Baton pass set ? Celebi has pretty decent base speed and LOTS of possible stuff to Baton Pass (Swords Dance, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, etc. etc.) and Celebi can find free turns with his resistances. Simple Max HP / Max Speed will work out here. I think this deserves at least OO mention. And BTW what happened to Tinkerbell set ? Not viable anymore (asking because I didn't use it in a while) ?
?
Baton Pass is on the first set and in the moves section there is already Swords Dance and Nasty Plot. An entire set dedicated to BP isn't worth imo.
 

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