OU Chandelure

alexwolf

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Overview
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Even though Chandelure is not a standard choice in OU, it has a few things going for it. For starters, it has an amazing STAB combination that only Tyranitar resists, along with a fantastic Special Attack stat. This makes Chandelure a decent Choice Scarf user, being able to revenge kill a plethora of fast Pokemon and clean up late-game. Furthermore, Chandelure's access to Taunt makes it an effective stallbreaker, especially when combined with Substitute and its useful resistances, which allow it to take advantage of many common defensive Pokemon, such as Chansey, Clefable, Heatran, and Mega Venusaur. Finally, Flash Fire can be situationally useful to pivot around Mega Charizard Y and for the power boost.

And that's where the good things end. Chandelure is slow for a Choice Scarf user, rendering it unable to outspeed many Speed-boosting Pokemon, such as Mega Charizard X, and common Choice Scarf users, such as Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Keldeo. Also, Chandelure is weak to Stealth Rock and Pursuit and has mediocre bulk, all of which make it much harder to use than its competition, Choice Scarf Heatran. Finally, Chandelure has many common weaknesses, namely to Water-, Ground-, Dark-, and Rock-type moves, meaning that it can be quite hard to switch in and is very susceptible to revenge killing, as almost any faster or priority-using Pokemon can OHKO it, including Azumarill and Bisharp.

Choice Scarf
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name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Overheat
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Trick / Energy Ball
ability: Flash Fire
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid

Moves
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Overheat and Shadow Ball are Chandelure's main moves, with Overheat opening holes early-game and Shadow Ball covering Pokemon that resist Fire-type and cleaning up late-game. Hidden Power Fighting 2HKOes Tyranitar and OHKOes Bisharp, two Pokemon that can switch into at least one of Chandelure's STAB moves and trap it with Pursuit. On the other hand, Hidden Power Ice OHKOes Dragonite after Stealth Rock, Garchomp, Gliscor, and Landorus-T, while also hitting Tyranitar for a decent amount of damage. Trick cripples defensive Pokemon that wall Chandelure, such as Chansey, specially defensive Heatran, Alomomola, and Suicune. However, Energy Ball is Chandelure's best shot against Keldeo, Terrakion, Mega Gyarados, Manaphy, Rotom-W, and Azumarill, while also being its strongest move against Tyranitar, if it lacks Hidden Power Fighting. Will-O-Wisp can be used alongside Trick, as it allows Chandelure to bypass Bisharp's Sucker Punch and burn common checks and counters, such as Azumarill, Tyranitar, and Terrakion, after it has Tricked away its Choice Scarf. Memento is another move that can be used in the last slot, allowing Chandelure to reliably cripple Pokemon that it can't revenge kill, such +1 Mega Tyranitar and +1 Mega Gyarados, and let its teammates take care of them. Memento can also be used to provide setup chances for sweepers.

Set Details
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A Modest nature is the best option for the extra power, which is one of Chandelure's main advantages as a Choice Scarf user. If, however, outspeeding Adamant Dragonite, Gyarados, and Mega Gyarados after one Dragon Dance is important, a Timid nature should be used, as well as Energy Ball and Hidden Power Ice, in order to allow Chandelure to revenge kill those threats effectively.

Usage Tips
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If you need Chandelure to check a threatening Pokemon, play safely with it; if not, feel free to play recklessly and even Trick away Chandelure's item early-game in order to cripple key defensive Pokemon. However, beware of Pursuit users, especially Tyranitar. Making double switches and using Chandelure as a means of forcing switches is the best way to use it if Tyranitar is on the opposing team. There is no need to predict a lot if the opponent lacks a Pursuit user, as Overheat dents even some Pokemon which resist it, such as Keldeo, which faints the second time it switches in if Stealth Rock is up. Finally, beware of Mega Evolutions when you want to use Trick, especially specially defensive Mega Charizard X and Y, both of which wall Chandelure.

Team Options
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Pokemon that can take advantage of Tyranitar, Ground-types, Water-types, and special walls are good teammates, with Breloom and Keldeo being perfect for this job. Also, entry hazards removal support is needed in order for Chandelure to be able to switch in and out as freely as possible. Starmie is a great spinner in general and beats Tyranitar and most Ground-types with Hydro Pump; some Water-types such as Keldeo with Psyshock; and Gyarados, Alomomola, and Slowbro with Thunderbolt. Mega Scizor with U-turn and Defog can bring Chandelure in safely and check many Ground-types, such as Sand Rush Excadrill, Landorus-T, and Choice Scarf Garchomp; along with some Water-types, mainly Azumarill; and any Tyranitar without Fire Blast. Wallbreakers also pair well with Chandelure and help it clean up, especially those able to lure and weaken bulky Ground- and Water-types. Life Orb Swords Dance Terrakion is an excellent example of this, being able to lure, weaken, and even KO Slowbro, Landorus-T, and Hippowdon, while also being able to take advantage of Tyranitar.


Stallbreaker
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name: Stallbreaker
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Fire Blast / Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Taunt
ability: Flash Fire
item: Leftovers
evs: 160 HP / 156 SpA / 192 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

Shadow Ball is Chandelure's most spammable move and 2HKOes many Pokemon neutral to it. Fire Blast 2HKOes specially defensive Gliscor and OHKOes most Steel- and Grass-types, while Will-O-Wisp cripples Tyranitar and is more reliable than Fire Blast against Chansey, as Fire Blast's low PP can backfire against Chandelure. Without Will-O-Wisp, Chandelure can't do anything to Chansey, though you still win the PP war. Will-O-Wisp also deals with Azumarill, especially Assault Vest sets, which would otherwise be a big problem to Chandelure. Substitute eases prediction, helps avoid Bisharp's Sucker Punch, and lets Chandelure take advantage of Pokemon that can't break the Substitute, such as Clefable, Chansey, defensive Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Heatran without Earth Power, Mega Scizor without Knock Off, and Amoonguss. Taunt shuts down the recovery of walls such as specially defensive Mega Charizard X, Chansey, Alomomola, and Suicune, letting Chandelure get past them and become an effective stallbreaker. Hex can be used over Shadow Ball when using Will-O-Wisp, as those two moves have great synergy together and give to Chandelure a 130 BP move against burned Pokemon. However, Hex is situational, as it's weaker than Shadow Ball against targets that aren't burned.

Set Details
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The EV spread allows Chandelure to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar, Adamant Bisharp, and Timid Magnezone and to make Substitutes that don't break from defensive Mega Venusaur's Sludge Bomb and Clefable's Moonblast. Flash Fire lets Chandelure check Mega Charizard Y and take advantage of the power boost it will sometimes get from Fire-type moves. If using Will-O-Wisp over Fire Blast, it is advised to use a Timid nature with a spread of 160 HP / 136 SpA / 212 Spe, in order to outrun Jolly Mega Heracross and Dragonite, along with Mega Gyarados and Gyarados before they set up a Substitute or OHKO Chandelure.


Usage Tips
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This set's main purpose is to help combat stall teams and break down defensive cores by taking advantage of certain Pokemon, such as Mega Venusaur, Clefable, Steel-types, and Chansey. Therefore, bring Chandelure in against one of those Pokemon and use Substitute or Taunt, depending on the situation. When you have a Substitute up, Chandelure can start doing some work with its attacks or Will-O-Wisp. Be sure to set up Stealth Rock before sending Chandelure in, as it needs the additional damage to pressure Mega Charizard X and Chansey - remember that Fire Blast only has 8 PP and is Chandelure's only way of doing damage to Chansey and 2HKOing specially defensive Gliscor. Against offensive teams you can play more recklessly with Chandelure and just try to deal as much damage as possible before going down, so don't be afraid to make aggressive double switches and risky plays, as Chandelure has little value against offensive teams anyway.

Team Options
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A reliable Stealth Rock setter helps Chandelure harass its defensive checks, such as specially defensive variants of Mega Charizard X, Earth Power Heatran, Talonflame, and Gyarados, making it an essential tool for effective stallbreaking. Clefable, Taunt Terrakion, and Fire Blast Tyranitar are able to keep Stealth Rock up against the anti-hazard Pokemon of stall teams, such as bulky Starmie, Defog Skarmory, and Defog Zapdos. Chandelure appreciates anti-hazard support of its own, which means that Latios, Latias, and Starmie are all good partners; in addition, they also help against some of Chandelure's checks and counters, such as Keldeo and Garchomp. Finally, Chandelure also needs partners to cover Tyranitar, Water-, and Ground-types, all of which Mega Venusaur, Breloom, Keldeo, Amoonguss, and Rotom-W are all good at doing.

Other Options
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Chandelure can use Pain Split, Will-O-Wisp, or Substitute in tandem with Shadow Ball, Fire Blast, and Hidden Power Fighting, with Life Orb or Leftovers (if using Substitute). Pain Split extends Chandelure's lifespan and lets it take advantage of Chansey without having to run Taunt, Will-O-Wisp helps avoid Bisharp's Sucker Punch and cripple common checks such as Tyranitar and Azumarill, and Substitute eases prediction and shields Chandelure from revenge killers, priority users, and Bisharp's Sucker Punch.

Checks & Counters
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**Rock-types**: Tyranitar is a hard counter to any Chandelure lacking Will-O-Wisp or Hidden Power Fighting, and it has Pursuit to make sure that Chandelure can't switch out. Terrakion, Mega Aerodactyl, and Rhyperior can take Chandelure's Fire-type moves and are thus good checks to the Choice Scarf set, but all of them are 2HKOed by Shadow Ball.

**Water-types**: Of all the Water-types, Assault Vest Azumarill is the best answer to Chandelure, only fearing Will-O-Wisp from the stallbreaking set. Keldeo, Gyarados, Rotom-W, Manaphy, and Suicune are all decent checks to the Choice Scarf set, being able to switch into Overheat at least once and threaten Chandelure with Water-type attacks, but they have a harder time dealing with the stallbreaking set, which isn't locked into a single move.

**Fire-types**: Specially defensive variants of Heatran, Mega Charizard X, and Talonflame are great checks to Chandelure, being able to avoid the 2HKO even from Shadow Ball as long as Stealth Rock is off the field. Talonflame has to watch out for Special Defense drops, though, because it is 2HKOed at -1 and can't OHKO Chandelure back. Heatran loses to the stallbreaking set if it doesn't carry Ancient Power or Earth Power.

**Ground-types**: Garchomp and specially defensive Hippowdon are good answers to Chandelure, with the latter being a hard counter to Chandelure. Specially defensive Gliscor counters the stallbreaking set if it lacks Fire Blast, while Diggersby is immune to Shadow Ball, allowing it to act as a situational check to the Choice Scarf set if used in tandem with a solid Fire resist.

**Faster Pokemon with super effective moves**: While faster Pokemon threaten most frail Pokemon, they are an even bigger concern for Chandelure because most offensive Pokemon have moves that hit it for super effective damage. Any faster Pokemon with such a move will most likely OHKO Chandelure.

**Miscellaneous**: Chansey walls the Choice Scarf set, but it must watch out for Trick. Bisharp and Weavile can Pursuit trap a Choice Scarf Chandelure locked into any move other than Overheat or Hidden Power Fighting. Stealth Rock is a good way to keep Chandelure in check. Finally, Assault Vest Conkeldurr and Assault Vest Tornadus-T can check Chandelure once or twice.
 
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Great STABs, resisted only by Tyranitar, combined with a lot of power
Crawdaunt, Mega Gyarados, and Greninja all resist this, Greninja is relevant b/c it will use water/dark type move, idk if Crawdaunt is relevant though.

Also, no SubCM? It pretty much 6-0s stall (If T-tar is gone/doesn't exist) since it's immune to S-toss and quag is 2hko-d by shadow ball. SubCM is much better than SubPlit.

I'm not too sure about OU, but in UU, I literally 6-0-d stall though the same could go because you can set up on Chansey/Clefable/Knock off-less Mew/Mega venusaur/SpD MScizor/Heatran and many other pokemons and vs. HO you can't set up on a lot but random Mega Mawile/Clefable/Mega Heracross etc. and after +1/+2 you could set up on most special mons bar Lando-I.
 
Crawdaunt, Mega Gyarados, and Greninja all resist this, Greninja is relevant b/c it will use water/dark type move, idk if Crawdaunt is relevant though.

Also, no SubCM? It pretty much 6-0s stall (If T-tar is gone/doesn't exist) since it's immune to S-toss and quag is 2hko-d by shadow ball. SubCM is much better than SubPlit.

I'm not too sure about OU, but in UU, I literally 6-0-d stall though the same could go because you can set up on Chansey/Clefable/Knock off-less Mew/Mega venusaur/SpD MScizor/Heatran and many other pokemons and vs. HO you can't set up on a lot but random Mega Mawile/Clefable/Mega Heracross etc. and after +1/+2 you could set up on most special mons bar Lando-I.
Just wondering: Why would you use SubCM Chandelure over Magic Guard Calm Mind Clefable?
 
Just wondering: Why would you use SubCM Chandelure over Magic Guard Calm Mind Clefable?
Great question :]
Because Chandelure has a LOT more opportunities to set up vs Stall, even though less vs. HO, it still did pretty good a decent amount of time. It's immunity to S-Toss is great + the SpA and Spe increase are very pleasing, I guess you don't get healing and weakness to rocks, but it's pretty worth it, especially when ghost/fire coverage is more useful than fire/fairy coverage.

Most importantly though is that is had enough speed to outspeed most Taunters (On stall) such as Mandibuzz, Skarmory, and Heatran, which clefable didn't. With certain Spe EVs you could even outrun 0 spe / 60 spe / 72 spe gliscor but I guess the latter 2 is speed creeping which isn't allowed.

oh and it's really unpredictable
 

Jukain

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this set also beats stall so i dont see the issue, while subcm is almost dead weight vs offense. it's not a good set.
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only a few nitpicks, this is very well done

for sr setters, specifically mention that the srer should beat skarm which is key vs stall.

maybe throw spdef talonflame as well as mega charizard y in c&c. also ep/ap tran. the rest of your c&c section is very vague, just elaborate obviously when you write it up.

qc 1/3
 

alexwolf

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Great question :]
Because Chandelure has a LOT more opportunities to set up vs Stall, even though less vs. HO, it still did pretty good a decent amount of time. It's immunity to S-Toss is great + the SpA and Spe increase are very pleasing, I guess you don't get healing and weakness to rocks, but it's pretty worth it, especially when ghost/fire coverage is more useful than fire/fairy coverage.

Most importantly though is that is had enough speed to outspeed most Taunters (On stall) such as Mandibuzz, Skarmory, and Heatran, which clefable didn't. With certain Spe EVs you could even outrun 0 spe / 60 spe / 72 spe gliscor but I guess the latter 2 is speed creeping which isn't allowed.

oh and it's really unpredictable
How does CM Chandelure have more set up chances against stall when it is SR weak, lacks recovery, and is in general prone to passive damage, while Clefable has Magic Guard and Softboiled. CM LO Clefable is honestly better vs stall (and offense too for that matter) and SubTaunt too, so i don't see any reason for CM Chandelure. Taunt has much more applications than Calm Mind in general, such as preventing Hippowdon from phazing Chandelure or healing, Suicune from boosting or using Rest(which beats CM Chandelure btw), SpD Heatran from Roaring you or setting up SR, Chansey from doing anything, and Clefable from healing (CM Unaware Clefable beats CM Chandelure one on one but not SubTaunt Chandelure). Taunt is just way more useful imo, though i guess i could mention SubCM in OO for beating more easily Mega Char Y, idk.

Also, thx for the check Jukain, will add your changes asap, and yeah i plan on elaborating on the checks and counters section when i write this up.

And what can Mega Char Y do against Chandy? It's 3HKOed by Fire Blast / Shadow Ball if offensive and can't use Roost due to Taunt, while the SpD set fares even worse because it is outsped. Also, i think now that Aegislash is banned, Flash Fire > Infiltrator, as even though hitting Mega Mawile through Subs is nice, the Fire immunity is more important. Opinions?
 

Martin

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i think now that Aegislash is banned, Flash Fire > Infiltrator, as even though hitting Mega Mawile through Subs is nice, the Fire immunity is more important. Opinions?
I agree with this. I see no reason to realistically run Infiltrator over Flash Fire anymore (outside of battles between players who choose to not implement the Aegis ban) as it doesn't do anything worthwhile anymore, outside of that Mega Mawile thing. The ability to switch in on Char-Y with ease is a huge draw to it now that we don't need to deal with SubToxic Aegislash anymore.
 

Jukain

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ok, yea flash fire seems better, then ignore charizard y. off char y does a shitload to chand while not be 2hkoed, which is why i said to mention it, but it's irrelevant with flash fire.
 
How does CM Chandelure have more set up chances against stall when it is SR weak, lacks recovery, and is in general prone to passive damage, while Clefable has Magic Guard and Softboiled. CM LO Clefable is honestly better vs stall (and offense too for that matter) and SubTaunt too, so i don't see any reason for CM Chandelure. Taunt has much more applications than Calm Mind in general, such as preventing Hippowdon from phazing Chandelure or healing, Suicune from boosting or using Rest(which beats CM Chandelure btw), SpD Heatran from Roaring you or setting up SR, Chansey from doing anything, and Clefable from healing (CM Unaware Clefable beats CM Chandelure one on one but not SubTaunt Chandelure). Taunt is just way more useful imo, though i guess i could mention SubCM in OO for beating more easily Mega Char Y, idk.

Also, thx for the check Jukain, will add your changes asap, and yeah i plan on elaborating on the checks and counters section when i write this up.

And what can Mega Char Y do against Chandy? It's 3HKOed by Fire Blast / Shadow Ball if offensive and can't use Roost due to Taunt, while the SpD set fares even worse because it is outsped. Also, i think now that Aegislash is banned, Flash Fire > Infiltrator, as even though hitting Mega Mawile through Subs is nice, the Fire immunity is more important. Opinions?
True, but here's the Pros of Chandy > Clefable:
  • Completely immune to Chansey and perfect lure to it, Clefable takes S-toss damage (IK you could heal but could potentially put you in rage of the random poke that isn't stall on a stall team).
  • Has more SpA, meaning +6 Chandy > +6 Clefable, sweeps better and 2HKOs Chansey
  • Has more Spe, it outspeeds all relevant taunt-users on Stall, such as Mandibuzz, Mew, Heatran, Skarmory, etc. which can stop Clefable from sweeping/setting up
  • Has 2 STABs and has better coverage
  • 2HKOs Quag which Clefable can't do
  • Is really unpredictable
  • Isn't wrecked by Mega Venu / Amoonguss even after setting up 1/2
  • Can beat most of it's counters/checks if it's behind a sub, such as, say Bisharp, but Clefable can't win as long as Exca/Bisharp/Scizor are on the opposing team
It definitely has cons too namely less bulk, no healing, weakness to rocks, but with sub and leftovers the latter 2 don't really matter vs. stall and the last one isn't too much of problem since almost every team has enough taunters / defog / spinner

I'm leaving this for QC to decide if it needs a whole new set, mention in OO/Set details w/e, or even just simply slash CM w/ Taunt.
 

Lumari

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True, but here's the Pros of Chandy > Clefable:<...>
  • Has more SpA, meaning +6 Chandy > +6 Clefable, sweeps better and 2HKOs Chansey
  • 2HKOs Quag which Clefable can't do<...>
Not gonna comment on most of your stuff because I don't have that much experience with either, but you mustn't forget that +6 Clefable has a 260 BP Stored Power, unlike Chandelure, so it is stronger and also shatters Quag. I know Stored Power is optional on Clefable, but Clefable is potentially better than Chandy on these points.
 

alexwolf

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True, but here's the Pros of Chandy > Clefable:
  • Completely immune to Chansey and perfect lure to it, Clefable takes S-toss damage (IK you could heal but could potentially put you in rage of the random poke that isn't stall on a stall team).
  • Has more SpA, meaning +6 Chandy > +6 Clefable, sweeps better and 2HKOs Chansey
  • Has more Spe, it outspeeds all relevant taunt-users on Stall, such as Mandibuzz, Mew, Heatran, Skarmory, etc. which can stop Clefable from sweeping/setting up
  • Has 2 STABs and has better coverage
  • 2HKOs Quag which Clefable can't do
  • Is really unpredictable
  • Isn't wrecked by Mega Venu / Amoonguss even after setting up 1/2
  • Can beat most of it's counters/checks if it's behind a sub, such as, say Bisharp, but Clefable can't win as long as Exca/Bisharp/Scizor are on the opposing team
It definitely has cons too namely less bulk, no healing, weakness to rocks, but with sub and leftovers the latter 2 don't really matter vs. stall and the last one isn't too much of problem since almost every team has enough taunters / defog / spinner

I'm leaving this for QC to decide if it needs a whole new set, mention in OO/Set details w/e, or even just simply slash CM w/ Taunt.
First point doesn't matter because Clefable can still easily use Chansey as set up bait. Second point doesn't matter either because LO Clefable with a few SpA EVs 2HKOes Chansey too at +6. Also, the extra power of Chandelure doesn't really matter against stall, as +6 Clefable already OHKO/2HKOes anything you would want, including Quagsire (2HKOed by Moonblast with SR up). Heatran may not be 2HKOed but it loses 25% minimum from +6 Moonblast, so you have no trouble beating this usually. The only problem are opposing Unaware Clefable, which Chandelure fairs better against as it can 2HKO it, but then again, i already explained why Taunt Chandelure > CM Chandelure when it comes to breaking past Unaware Clefable. The fifth point doesn't matter because LO Clefable 2HKOes Quagsire too. Finally, LO Clefable fucks up its counters with LO Flametrhower, including Amoonguss and the Steel-types, so your last two points are kinda mute too.

And you still have to explain why CM > Taunt, i mean the specific Pokemon / team types it helps against.
 
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First point doesn't matter because Clefable can still easily use Chansey as set up bait. Second point doesn't matter either because LO Clefable with a few SpA EVs 2HKOes Chansey too at +6. Also, the extra power of Chandelure doesn't really matter against stall, as +6 Clefable already OHKO/2HKOes anything you would want, including Quagsire (2HKOed by Moonblast with SR up). Heatran may not be 2HKOed but it loses 25% minimum from +6 Moonblast, so you have no trouble beating this usually. The only problem are opposing Unaware Clefable, which Chandelure fairs better against as it can 2HKO it, but then again, i already explained why Taunt Chandelure > CM Chandelure when it comes to breaking past Unaware Clefable. The fifth point doesn't matter because LO Clefable 2HKOes Quagsire too. Finally, LO Clefable fucks up its counters with LO Flametrhower, including Amoonguss and the Steel-types, so your last two points are kinda mute too.

And you still have to explain why one would use CM over Taunt.
+6 4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 250-295 (35.5 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 4 SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 325-383 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Quagsire: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I guess you meant LO, I was talking about Leftovers but w/e, also you need rocks for both Chansey and Quagsire, and vs. Quag you need some SpA EVs and a bit of luck. Not too much but Chandelure has that. Heatran can phaze, at least Chandelure can kill after rocks at +6, or 2HKO at +2 after rocks.

As for the final point, that's not what I meant, Scizor has priority, while Bisharp and Excadrill outspeed and does minimum of 80% (LO) so if weakened (which happens a lot) just a bit you would lose. At least Chandy only loses his Sub. SpD Amoonguss can live a Flamethrower at +1 and 3HKO back

Also I never said CM > Taunt on chandy, if I did then I'm mistaken, I said Taunt > CM but CM is viable enough to warrant an inferior set/mention/slash
 

alexwolf

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+6 4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 250-295 (35.5 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 4 SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 325-383 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Quagsire: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I guess you meant LO, I was talking about Leftovers but w/e, also you need rocks for both Chansey and Quagsire, and vs. Quag you need some SpA EVs and a bit of luck. Not too much but Chandelure has that. Heatran can phaze, at least Chandelure can kill after rocks at +6, or 2HKO at +2 after rocks.

As for the final point, that's not what I meant, Scizor has priority, while Bisharp and Excadrill outspeed and does minimum of 80% (LO) so if weakened (which happens a lot) just a bit you would lose. At least Chandy only loses his Sub. SpD Amoonguss can live a Flamethrower at +1 and 3HKO back

Also I never said CM > Taunt on chandy, if I did then I'm mistaken, I said Taunt > CM but CM is viable enough to warrant an inferior set/mention/slash
LO CM Clefable should be using 80 SpA EVs to always 2HKO Chansey at +6 and 2HKO Quagsire with SR up more than 90% of the time. Anyway, i still think that SubCM is too niche for anything other than OO, and not even sure about OO, so i will let the QC team decide about this.
 

Valentine

Banned deucer.
fuck cm. only good ou chand set is scarf, but i guess this sub/taunt+wow is /fine/, outclassed by wowtaunt mew, tran, even just plain wow zardx, but fine. super suboptimal pokemon but it's already written up so not much to say. add scarf.

2/3.
 

alexwolf

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Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Overheat
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Energy Ball / Trick
ability: Flash Fire
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid

Is this Scarf moveset fine Valentine? HP Fighting for Tyranitar and Heatran, Energy Ball for Azumarill, Keldeo, Terrakion, and weakened Mega Gyarados, and Hidden Power Ice is cool if you have problems with DDNite, Garchomp, and SpD Gliscor. Taunt + HP Ice is decent against stall, as Trick cripples Chansey and Alomomola, and Hidden Power Ice fucks up SpD Gliscor. HP Ice should be used with a Timid nature, to outspeed +1 Adamant Dragonite. Flamethrower will go to Moves, because there is no room for it on the main set.
 

Valentine

Banned deucer.
trick is more useful than more coverage on chand almost always. i might run energy ball before a hidden power for fire/grass but depends on what my teams needs. mention willowisp in moves, once ur opp knows ur scarfed they'll sucker w/ sharp and maw, wow is a good fakie. also good to catch things like ttar, dragonite, gyarados, dragons, what have you.
 

alexwolf

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Added the whole scarf set. The Team options section is kinda short, so if you want me to add something say it. Am i free to start writing this?
 

alexwolf

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Can i get some QC input for the Scarf set before i start writing this up? And even though Valentine told me to add it, i have to ask, is Scarf really worth a main set? What does it have over Scarf Heatran? The ability to OHKO Latios, Latias, and Starmie, the ability to deal with Water-types better thanks to Shadow Ball, and Trick, but do those pros make it worth using when Chandelure is SR weak, Pursuit weak, frailer, and with a shittier defensive typing than Heatran. I mean, half the reason why Scarf Heatran is so good is because it provides defensive synergy and bulk, as well as having multiple switch-in chances to start start doing job. Good time bringing Chandelure in multiple times with that bulk, SR weakness, and Pursuit weakness.

At least SubTaunt Chandy with STABs fares good against both balance and stall, and has significant advantages over Gengar, such as Fire STAB and more resistances, which make it a way more immediate threat.
 

aim

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tbh though i can see why you could use scarf chandy your reasoning basically is why i wouldn't use it. I feel like if anything, trick + scarf should be mentioned in other options if this is a revamp of chandy, i can't tell since I see two or three potential sets but yeah. This looks good friend write it up so i can give it the final qc check
 

Jukain

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scarf is fine as a set. probably the big appeal to me over tran is a reliable thing for char y (tran can be nailed on the switch-in by a focus blast). it also has a nice ghost stab which deals with keldeo nicely, among actual bulky waters espec slowbro which walls tran. sball is also a really good spam move that hits the vast majority of foes for good damage, including meaning chandy isn't walled by roost latias. it has a fighting immunity which can be useful especially with baiting mega medicham. finally, it has trick and a seismic toss immunity that means chansey has to actually be wary of switching into it. it is actually stronger too! all in all there are quite a few niches for scarf chandy as opposed to tran.
 

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