Chandelure (taken over from lucariojr)

let's see i think i got everything(?) e.e

[Overview]

-CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
-super very strong special attack
-great typing (kinda)
-fucks up trick room
-checks commons
-dies to sand/rain
-solid mon
-BARN ALL 9(O++O)9 ~~~~~~3 fwoosh!!!!!!!!

[SET]
name: BARN ALL (Offensive Trick Room)
move 1: Heat Wave / Overheat
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Trick Room
move 4: Protect
item: Focus Sash / Fire Gem
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Quiet / Modest
evs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Def / 4 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

-barns hot barns bright
-great for teams capable of using trick room but not reliant on it
-sash is mainly to help tr get up, probs dont need to rely on it for attackin
-fire gem overheat fucks alla yo shit up; ohkos kyurem and anythin around that kinda bulk, and does more to neutral mons than shadow ball does. dont bother using it with heat wave tho
-shadow ball fucks up cress and does nice damage overall
-modest for semi tr, quiet for full trick room. you could run modest in full tr in case you want a few fast mons for outside trick room though

-lemmie just take the opportunity to say that if you have never tried to build a semi trick room team i highly recommend you do so asap. its really hard to strike the balance but it is oh so worth it because its really fun and unpredictable if you get it right. chand is the perfect mon to do this and its part of the reason its my 3rd fave mon!!!!!!!!

-im going to restate this: sash is there for trick room only so you can tr in the face of terrak or something. chand's trick rooms have the opportunity to be game changing if you learn to use them right. in full trick room, its going to be dying to surf/eq so might as well take advantage of fake out you know what im saying

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

-modest is for outspeeding things outside of trick room
-ghost gem
-attacking moves in third slot

-main evs: hp evs are mostly to avoid putting them in speed. 240 hp makes sand hurt less and the rest are put into defenses.
-speed evs for modest; 44 is the minimum to overtake cress. run more if you feel like it though that may come back to haunt you in trick room
-slower speed for modest; 8 speed ivs underspeeds base 70's and still outspeeds stuff like jellicent and scrafty (scrafty dies to gemmed overheat js)

-fake out, follow me (specifically scrafty and amoonguss)
-tr abusers
-pokes that dont like tr but like chand to reverse it
-abomasnow

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Heat Wave
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Energy Ball
move 4: Overheat / Trick
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

-FLASH FIRE!!!!!!!
-destroys stuff
-trick to cripple stuff, overheat to BARN ALL
-overheat isnt as strong without fgem backing it but is still very strength
-hp ice for chomp and landog
-energy ball is the stupidest shit ever but hits water types for okay damage, notably gastrodon
-heat wave for strong spread damg
-shadow ball still fucks up cress but fucks up latios more goodly as well
-shadow ball+energy ball=baller set

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

-modest for power, outspeeds weavile and ties with skymin, timid outspeeds skymin and base 80's under tailwind

-sableye for sunny day/wow flash fire activation
-hh mons
-wide guard (hitmontop)

[Other Options]

-hp rock/ground
-solarbeam
-flamethrower/fire blast
-wow
-flame charge
-pain split
-imprison
-substitute
-specs
-life orb
-bulky evs/nature; calm/sassy 240 hp / 44 spa / 224 spD lives draco meteors and other chand shadow balls while also still being powerful with fgem overheat/shadow ball

[Checks and Counters]

-ttar
-landog
-politoed
-heatran
-scrafty
-hydreigon
-waters in general
-eq-ers in general < this was left out, obviously pokemon with super effective moves are checks -__-
-mantine (forreal chand cant touch this shit apparently and it has fuckin wide guard) and swampert, though it has to watch out for energy ball

[Unreleased]

-loss of flash fire is sad but now chand can more reliably kill stuff especially with choiced sets also its broke objectively


lucariojr wrote up to about the second set sc
[Overview]

<p>Chandelure is a bit of an oddball in Doubles; it's not particularly fast or bulky, which are two important traits that make Pokemon stand out. However, its saving graces come from its astounding base 145 Special Attack and access to the rather exclusive Trick Room, as well as an immunity to Fake Out, which helps its setup, adding up to an odd yet effective combination of offense and support. It has a great ability in Flash Fire, granting it another immunity. Chandelure can also utilize the combination of Imprison and Trick Room, effectively shutting down any opposing Trick Room setters. However, it does suffer from common weaknesses from moves such as Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Scald, as well as the high usage of Tyranitar, which can defeat Chandelure with its hands tied behind its back thanks to Sand Stream and its resistance to Chandelure's STABs. Not only this, but another popular weather, rain, puts quite a damper on Chandelure's effectiveness. Even if it does suffer from common weaknesses, not many other offensive Trick Room users can hold a candle to Chandelure, as it still manages to carve out a niche as one of the most effective offensive Trick Room users in the game.</p>

[SET]
name: Offensive Trick Room
move 1: Heat Wave / Overheat
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Trick Room
move 4: Protect
item: Focus Sash / Fire Gem
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Quiet
evs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpA
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Chandelure doesn't have much use for coverage moves, which serves this set perfectly as it allows Chandelure to make room for Trick Room and the ever-useful Protect while still hitting common Pokemon such as Cresselia and Scizor for super effective damage. Heat Wave is a spread move and receives a STAB boost, allowing it to deal respectable damage to two Pokemon at once. Shadow Ball is slightly less powerful in terms of net damage, but is still more accurate, does slightly more damage to the target Pokemon, and is capable of 2HKOing Cresselia.</p>

<p>This variant of Chandelure isn't the kind of Trick Room setter that comes in at the beginning of the game with the sole purpose of setting Trick Room; instead, it's the Pokemon that you bring in when it can be an offensive threat against the opponent. The opponent is put in a bad position, being forced to guess between an attack and Trick Room, while Chandelure can basically do whatever it wants, especially if the Focus Sash is still intact.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Focus Sash is used to set up Trick Room more consistently, especially when considering Chandelure's rather common weaknesses, and Chandelure has a high enough Special Attack to deal consistent damage without a boost. If you really want some firepower though, look no farther than a Fire Gem-boosted Overheat. Thanks to a Gem boost, Overheat is capable of OHKOing even the bulkiest of Thundurus, and if you can manage to back it with a Helping Hand boost as well, it can OHKO specially defensive Musharna, Togekiss, and even 4/0 Garchomp. Fire Gem doesn't net any special KOs with Heat Wave, however, so when using Heat Wave, it's best to stick with Focus Sash.</p>

<p>Flame Body might be appealing to burn Tyranitar and the like, but it's important to remember that such Pokemon can just as easily use Rock Slide or other non-contact moves. This renders Flame Body useless most of the time, making Flash Fire's immunity and potential power boost more worthwhile. If you're using Chandelure for anti-Trick Room, you might want to consider Imprison over Protect or Shadow Ball, which is the most consistent anti-Trick Room method out there, albeit highly specialized and possibly useless against any team that doesn't rely on Trick Room.</p>

<p>The EVs are distributed mainly in HP and Special Attack mainly because Chandelure doesn't have much to do with the remaining 252 EVs. 240 HP minimizes sandstorm and hail damage while the remainder is dumped into Defense. If you're worried about Genesect getting a free Special Attack boost against Chandelure, you can allocate the Defense EVs into Special Defense, though you'll have to decide what kind of attack you're most scared of; a +1 U-turn or a +1 special attack. Chandelure's Speed is minimized to take full advantage of Trick Room, though if you're building a semi-Trick Room team, you can afford to make your Chandelure faster. A spread that achieves this is Modest, and utilizes 44 Speed EVs to overtake Cresselia and tie with Rotom-W, which is useful to deliver the final blow or deal a nice of chunk damage; a set with Modest with 8 Speed IVs can also be used, as it outspeeds neutral-natured Scrafty outside of Trick Room and neutral-natured base 70s such as Metagross in Trick Room, as well as other Trick Room Chandelure that opt for a Quiet nature. Outspeeding these Pokemon outside of Trick Room is especially important if you're using Fire Gem Overheat, as many Pokemon around the base 60 Speed region are in danger of being OHKOed or 2HKOed by either Overheat or Shadow Ball.</p>

<p>As always, in order to set up Trick Room, you need support in the form of Fake Out or Follow Me. Amoonguss and Hariyama are two prime examples, as they not only apply pressure under Trick Room, but are also capable of patching up Chandelure's weaknesses with their opportune typing or Wide Guard. Hariyama also acts as a fantastic counter to Tyranitar, one of Chandelure's biggest counters. Scrafty and Hitmontop aren't as offensive as Hariyama, but they sport Intimidate and better overall bulk, which helps to take down Tyranitar. Other Pokemon that can make use of the twisted dimensions are obviously great partners for Trick Room Chandelure. Abomasnow breaks Chandelure's Focus Sash with its hail, but offers great offensive synergy with Blizzard and can bait Fire-type moves, allowing Chandelure to grab a free Flash Fire boost. Snow Warning also removes Drizzle's effect, making Abomasnow a nice anti-rain Pokemon to use alongside Chandelure.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Heat Wave / Overheat
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Energy Ball
move 4: Overheat / Trick
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set goes in the complete opposite direction of the Trick Room set as it aims to outspeed threats with Choice Scarf rather than underspeed them with Trick Room. This set excels at taking down Pokemon such as Latios, Garchomp, Shaymin-S, and Metagross. Heat Wave is a standard STAB move, providing spread damage with a decent Base Power. Shadow Ball is a good complementary STAB move, providing great neutral coverage and super effective damage on prominent threats such as Cresselia and Latios. Hidden Power Ice is the suggested move in the third slot, allowing Chandelure to combat Pokemon with notable Ice-type weaknesses, such as Landorus-T and Garchomp. Energy Ball is a viable alternative, providing Chandelure with a way to hit bulky Water-types, notably Gastrodon and Rotom-W. However, while its coverage is acceptable, its relatively low Base Power means that even super effective hits often will not OHKO. Overheat can be used in the last slot for a single powerful attack, but forces Chandelure to switch out, while Trick is used to cripple defensive checks.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Timid allows Chandelure to surpass Shaymin-S as well as well as any Pokemon with less than 213 Speed under Tailwind. A Modest nature can be used for the extra power it provides, while still letting Chandelure outspeed Weavile and tie with Shaymin-S. Flash Fire is the preferred ability as it allows Chandelure to switch into Fire-type attacks freely while simultaneously boosting its own. Flame Body is a viable alternative, although Chandelure is often targeted by non-contact moves, such as Rock Slide and Earthquake. Furthermore, Flash Fire has more general utility, allowing Chandelure to switch in with much more ease.</p>

<p>While already supported by a strong base 145 Special Attack, Chandelure enjoys team support in the form of Helping Hand from Pokemon such as Cresselia. As Chandelure is weak to three of the most common spread moves, Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Muddy Water, Wide Guard support is also appreciated. Pokemon such as Hitmontop and Hariyama are ideal for this role, as they can also provide Fake Out, effectively protecting Chandelure while leaving it free to attack. Sun support is also favorable, making Heat Wave a much more potent spread move. Sableye is notable for this role, as it not only has access to a priority Sunny Day, but also a priority Will-O-Wisp, allowing it to manually trigger Chandelure's Flash Fire.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Chandelure has a number of other options that it can use. Hidden Power Rock and Hidden Power Ground can be used to hit Volcarona and Heatran, respectively. Heatran takes very little from Chandelure's STABs and commonly used coverage moves, so Chandelure can effectively lure in Heatran and OHKO with Hidden Power Ground. With sun support, SolarBeam can be used for more powerful coverage against Water-types. However, it should never be used outside of sun, and is shaky even with sun support due to the constant weather changes. Will-O-Wisp can be used to burn and cripple opposing physical attackers, but Chandelure is often outpaced and OHKOed by prominent physical threats, especially without team support, due to the prevalence of moves such as Earthquake and Rock Slide. Flame Charge is an interesting option for a way to boost Chandelure's Speed, but it is outclassed in this manner, notably by Volcarona, which sports a much better boosting move. Pain Split allows for a semi-reliable way to regain health, but Chandelure really isn't very bulky anyway and a misprediction can easily spell doom. Substitute can act as a buffer from revenge killing, but Chandelure often does not have space for it.</p>

<p>A Life Orb set is viable, providing a lot of power while retaining the ability to switch moves. Again, the loss of HP is not very noticeable, considering the fact that Chandelure is OHKOed by most powerful moves regardless. Choice Specs allows Chandelure to act as a nuke, although the set lacks Speed and is easily revenge killed. An alternative EV spread of 240 HP / 44 SpA / 224 SpD with a Calm or Sassy nature can be used as a much more bulky set, allowing it to live a Life Orb-boosted Draco Meteor from Latios or a Shadow Ball from opposing Chandelure at full health while still retaining the ability to strike back hard.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Tyranitar is one of the best counters to Chandelure, taking little from Chandelure's STAB attacks, while being able to easily OHKO in return with Crunch or Rock Slide. Heatran also takes very little from Chandelure's commonly used moves, and is able to 2HKO back with Earth Power, but it must be wary of the rare Hidden Power Ground, which will OHKO it unless it's running significant bulk investment. Heatran can also easily set up a Substitute on any of Chandelure's commonly carried moves. Politoed is also a good counter, as it not only takes Chandelure's attacks well, but also brings rain, limiting Chandelure's offensive presence, and can do a lot of damage even with an unboosted Water-type move. Most Water-types have little to fear, as Energy Ball often does not have enough power and is not too commonly seen regardless. Swampert receives a special mention as it also gets Wide Guard, stopping one of Chandelure's primary STAB moves. As for checks, Scrafty is a good one, with its great Special Defense and Dark-type STAB moves. Landorus-T can switch in on any move other than Hidden Power Ice and OHKO back with a powerful Earthquake. Hydreigon is also a great check, resisting all of Chandelure's commonly used moves bar Hidden Power Ice and easily OHKOing back with Dark Pulse. Chandelure has a very low base HP stat and its defenses are nothing special either, so even powerful neutral attacks are able to OHKO.</p>

<p>If your team is weak to Trick Room, Chandelure should be a top priority threat. As Fake Out cannot be used to stop it from setting Trick Room, Taunt and Imprison are some of the few viable ways to stop it from setting up. For example, Thundurus has a fast Taunt and numerous other supporting moves. However, Taunt (and Imprison) users must be wary of a powerful Fire Gem-boosted Overheat. While not very bulky, Trick Room Chandelure often carries a Focus Sash, so simply double targeting it can quickly dispatch of it before Trick Room can be set up.</p>

[Unreleased]

<p>While Chandelure enjoys the Fire immunity that Flash Fire provides, Shadow Tag will allow it to KO targets more reliably, notably Choice-locked Pokemon, without fear of them switching out. Being able to trap both opposing Pokemon is also a huge plus, in many ways making it broken, allowing you to safely switch into your own counter for their Pokemon.</p>
 
Last edited:

Stratos

Banned deucer.
hey thanks for taking this

oh i just realized that all of the first stuff is actually addressed to lucariojr but im still gonna say "you" bc youre gonna be the one to fix it =)
  • i think you mean ubiquity of tyranitar, not ambiguity of tyranitar in the overview
  • basically by default for being a fire type, somewhere in the overview needs to be a mention of how it's probably the worst choice to set TR against a rain team—it was in the skeleton, but you only mentioned sand in the writeup
  • luke put "fucks up trick room" in the overview skeleton without explaining—dammit luke. lucariojr did you mean because of imprison because otherwise i don't see how chandelure fucks up trick room even a little, which would explain why its not mentioned in the overview
  • the pun at the end of the overview gave me cancer (also i'd reword it to something like "not many offensive tr setters can hold a candle to chandelure" because otherwise it sounds like a top-tier pokemon when it's really rather niche)
  • set comments 1 has a lot of calcs but needs to explain how to actually use otr chand. it's not one of those pokemon you lead with turn 1 and go "I AM SETTING TRICK ROOM NO MATTER WHAT" it's more of something you bring in when its offensive power can legitimately threaten the opponent, and they're not sure whether you're going to heat wave or trick room so it puts them in a tough spot, and then sash helps serve as insurance for the times you pick trick room. Of course, it can be used turn 1 if the matchup is good but that's not really its groove. (if lucariojr or someone else with more chand experience than me disagrees then say so)
  • Energy Ball's coverage is really fine, it's just the fact that it's hitting 2x weaks. It doesn't have enough power to actually KO without the juicy 4x weakness and all of its targets can KO right back.
  • was luke on drugs when he said timid scarf base 80 could outspeed tailwind base 80? probably
  • "notably, heatran takes very little damage from any of chand's common attacks"—so it can serve as an effective lure, don't forget to draw the conclusion there
  • i can't help but think checks and counters needs a general mention of how chandelure can be beaten by anything both strong and faster than it, as long as you break its sash. also how you have to beware of its setting TR if your team is weak to it, and some general things that can stop sash chand from setting TR (thundurus specifically but it must beware of Overheat). Furthermore, needs a mention of how the normally most reliable way of beating a TR setter (ie fake out) is a flop against it so it requires a bit more of an unorthodox strategy: just double-target the damm thing.
  • also mention WHY toed's rain is a big deal: because it dampens its best move heat wave
 
i thought the "hold a candle to chandelure" wasnt bad :cccc

edit: updated

i added chand serving as a lure in OO (i assume that's what you meant)
 
Last edited:

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
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some things here piikachuu :
  • mention flash fire somewhere in overview
  • wouldn't say rain is the most used weather, so i'd change that to very popular or something
  • "Heat Wave, while pitifully weak when used by Pokemon such as Hydreigon and Salamence due to the spread damage reduction lowering its Base Power to 75, receives a STAB boost" <--- this part isn't really necessary, since the fact that a nonstab heat wave is kinda weak is p. obvious. you can just say that it does good damage to both partners or something
  • move all item stuff to ac
  • in ac of first set, hariyama can take out ttar so mention that
  • ". Modest and 44 Speed EVs is the minimum to overtake Cresselia and tie with Rotom-W, which is useful to deliver the final blow or deal a nice chunk damage," <-- try to make it a bit clearer that this is an alternative spread, as it could confuse the reader
  • "outspeeds neutral Speed base 60s such as Scizor and Scrafty" <--- scizor is 65 and scrafty is 58
  • for scarf set switch sentences about timid and modest, since timid is slashed first
  • when mentioning solarbeam in oo, mention how its risky even with sun support due to the amount of weather changes in the tier
  • yeah you can get rid of mantine mention if you want
lemme know when this stuff is done and ill give you the stamp
 
Audiosurfer, updated

i switched the base 60 example to porygon2, tbh it's not a great example, and there arent really any notable base 60s
i guess there could just be no example
 

Audiosurfer

I'd rather be sleeping
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
ok just scrap mention of base 60s and focus on how it outspeeds scrafty outside of trick room I guess. A few other little things
  • With Heatran in check and counter, mention how it can set up a sub as well
  • Also change mentions of surf when talking about chandelure's weakness to spread moves to muddy water

Otherwise nice job
QC 3/3
 
amchecking
also you finally got a badge ^___^
additions
subtractions

comments
[Overview]

<p>Chandelure is a bit of an oddball in Doubles; it's not particularly fast or bulky, which are two important traits which make Pokemon stand out. However, its saving graces come from its astounding base 145 Special Attack and access to the rather exclusive Trick Room, as well as an immunity to Fake Out, which helps its setup(??? what do you mean, did you mean to say 'it set up'? if not don't change), which adds up to an odd yet effective combination of offense and support. It has a great ability in Flash Fire, granting it another immunity. Chandelure can also utilize the combination of Imprison and Trick Room, effectively shutting down any opposing Trick Room setters. However, it does suffer from common weaknesses from spread(isn't that more relevant)moves such as Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Scald, as well as the high usage of Tyranitar, which can defeat Chandelure with its hands tied behind its back thanks to Sand Stream and its resistance to Chandelure's STABs. Not only this, but another popular weather, rain, puts quite a damper on Chandelure's effectiveness. Even if it does suffer from common weaknesses, not many other offensive Trick Room users can hold a candle to Chandelure as it still manages to carve out a niche as one of the most effective offensive Trick Room users in the game.</p>

[SET]
name: Offensive Trick Room
move 1: Heat Wave / Overheat
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Trick Room
move 4: Protect
item: Focus Sash / Fire Gem
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Quiet
evs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpA
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Chandelure doesn't have much use for coverage moves, which serves this set perfectly as it allows Chandelure to make room for Trick Room and the ever-useful Protect while still hitting common Pokemon such as Cresselia and Scizor for super effective damage. Heat Wave is a spread move and receives a STAB boost, allowing it to deal respectable damage to two Pokemon at once. Shadow Ball is slightly less powerful in terms of net damage, but is still more accurate, does slightly more damage to the target Pokemon, and is capable of 2HKOing Cresselia.</p>

<p>This variant of Chandelure isn't the kind of Trick Room setter that comes in at the beginning of the game with the sole purpose of setting Trick Room; rather, it's the Pokemon that you bring in when it can be an offensive threat against the opponent. The opponent is put in a bad position, being forced to guess between an attack and Trick Room, while Chandelure can basically do whatever it wants, especially if the Focus Sash is still intact.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Focus Sash is used to set up Trick Room more consistently, especially when considering Chandelure's rather common weaknesses, and while it doesn't offer any offensive boost, Chandelure has a high enough Special Attack to deal consistent damage without a boost. If you really want some firepower though, look no farther than a Fire Gem-boosted Overheat. Thanks to a Gem boost, Overheat is capable of OHKOing even the bulkiest of Thundurus, and if you can manage to back it with a Helping Hand boost as well, it can OHKO specially defensive Musharna, Togekiss, and even 4/0 Garchomp. Fire Gem doesn't net any special KOs with Heat Wave, however, so when using Heat Wave, it's best to stick with Focus Sash.</p>

<p>Flame Body might be appealing to burn Tyranitar and the like, but it's important to remember that such Pokemon can just as easily use Rock Slide or other non-contact moves. This renders Flame Body useless most of the time, making Flash Fire's immunity and potential power boost more worthwhile. If you're using Chandelure for anti-Trick Room, you may want to consider Imprison over Protect or Shadow Ball, which is the most consistent anti-Trick Room method out there, albeit highly centralized(??? specialized?) and possibly useless against any team that doesn't rely on Trick Room.</p>

<p>The EVs are distributed mainly in HP and Special Attack mainly because Chandelure doesn't have much to do with the remaining 252 EVs. 240 HP minimizes sandstorm and hail damage while the remainder is dumped into Defense. If you're worried about Genesect getting a free Special Attack boost against Chandelure, you can allocate the Defense EVs into Special Defense, though you'll have to decide what kind of attack you're most scared of; a +1 U-turn or a +1 special attack. Chandelure's Speed is minimized to take full advantage of Trick Room, though if you're building a semi-Trick Room team, you can afford to make your Chandelure faster. Spreads that achieve this are Modest and 44 Speed EVs is the minimum to overtake Cresselia and tie with Rotom-W, which is useful to deliver the final blow or deal a nice chunk damage, and Modest with 8 Speed IVs, which outspeeds neutral-natured Scrafty and underspeeds neutral Speed base 70s such as Metagross as well as other Trick Room Chandelure that opt for a Quiet nature. Outspeeding these Pokemon outside of Trick Room is especially important if you're using Fire Gem Overheat, as many Pokemon around the base 60 Speed region are in danger of being OHKOed or 2HKOed by either Overheat or Shadow Ball.</p>

<p>As always, in order to set up Trick Room, you need support in the form of Fake Out or Follow Me. Amoonguss and Hariyama are two prime examples, as they not only apply pressure under Trick Room, but they are also capable of patching up Chandelure's weaknesses with their opportune typing or Wide Guard. Hariyama also acts as a fantastic counter to Tyranitar, one of Chandelure's biggest counters. Scrafty and Hitmontop aren't as offensive as Hariyama, but they sport Intimidate and better overall bulk, which helps to take down Tyranitar. Other Pokemon that can make use of the twisted dimensions are obviously great partners for Trick Room Chandelure. Abomasnow may strip Chandelure of its(just say it breaks it? kinda unclear here) Focus Sash, but offers great offensive synergy with Blizzard and can bait Fire-type moves, allowing Chandelure to grab a free Flash Fire boost. Snow Warning also removes Drizzle's effect, making Abomasnow a nice anti-rain Pokemon to use alongside Chandelure.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Heat Wave / Overheat
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Energy Ball
move 4: Overheat / Trick
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set goes in the complete opposite direction of the Trick Room set as it aims to outspeed them threats with Choice Scarf rather than underspeed them with Trick Room. This set excels at taking down Pokemon such as Latios, Garchomp, Shaymin-S, and Metagross. Heat Wave is a standard STAB move, providing spread damage with a decent Base Power. Shadow Ball is a good complementary STAB move, with great neutral coverage and providing super effective damage on prominent threats such as Cresselia and Latios. Hidden Power Ice is the suggested move in the third slot, allowing Chandelure to combat Pokemon with notable Ice-type weaknesses, such as Landorus-T and Garchomp. Energy Ball is a viable alternative coverage move, providing Chandelure with a way to hit bulky Water-types, notably Gastrodon and Rotom-W. However, while its coverage is acceptable, its relatively low Base Power means that even super effective hits often will not OHKO. Overheat can be used in the last slot for a single powerful attack, but forces Chandelure to switch out, while Trick is used to cripple defensive checks. Flash Fire is the preferred ability as it allows Chandelure to switch into Fire-type attacks freely while simultaneously boosting its own.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Timid allows Chandelure to surpass Shaymin-S as well as well as any Pokemon with less than 213 Speed under Tailwind. A Modest nature can be used for the extra power it provides, while still letting it outspeeding Weavile and tying tie with Shaymin-S. Flame Body is a viable alternative, although Chandelure is often targeted by non-contact moves, such as Rock Slide and Earthquake. Furthermore, Flash Fire has more general utility, allowing Chandelure to switch in with much more ease.</p>

<p>While already supported by a strong base 145 Special Attack, Chandelure enjoys team support in the form of Helping Hand from Pokemon such as Cresselia. As Chandelure is weak to three of the most common spread moves, Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Muddy Water, Wide Guard support is also appreciated. Pokemon such as Hitmontop and Hariyama are ideal for this role, as they can also provide Fake Out, effectively protecting Chandelure while leaving it free to attack. Sun support is also favorable, making Heat Wave a much more potent spread move. Sableye is notable for this role, as it not only has access to a priority Sunny Day but also a priority Will-O-Wisp, allowing it to manually trigger Chandelure's Flash Fire.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Chandelure has a number of other options that it can use. Hidden Power Rock and Hidden Power Ground can be used to hit Volcarona and Heatran, respectively. Heatran takes very little from Chandelure's STABs and commonly used coverage moves, so Chandelure can effectively lure in Heatran and OHKO with Hidden Power Ground. With sun support, Solarbeam SolarBeam can be used for more powerful coverage against Water-types. However, it should never be used outside of sun, and is shaky even with sun support due to the constant weather changes. Will-O-Wisp can be used to burn and cripple opposing physical attackers, but Chandelure is often outpaced and OHKOed by prominent physical threats, especially without team support, due to the prevalence of moves such as Earthquake and Rock Slide. Flame Charge is an interesting option for a way to boost its Speed, but Chandelure is outclassed in this manner, notably by Volcarona which sports a much better boosting move. Pain Split allows for a semi-reliable way to regain health, but Chandelure really isn't very bulky anyway and a misprediction can easily spell doom. Substitute can act as a buffer from revenge killing, but Chandelure often does not have space for it.</p>

<p>A Life Orb set is viable, providing a lot of power while retaining the ability to switch moves. Again, the loss of HP is not very noticeable, considering the fact that it is OHKOed by most powerful moves regardless. Choice Specs allows Chandelure to act as a nuke, although the set lacks Speed and is easily revenge killed. An alternative EV spread of 240 HP / 44 SpA / 224 SpD with a Calm or Sassy nature can be used as a much more bulky set, allowing it to live a Life Orb-boosted Draco Meteor from Latios or a Shadow Ball from opposing Chandelure at full health while still retaining the ability to strike back hard.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Tyranitar is one of the best counters to Chandelure, taking little from Chandelure's STAB attacks, while being able to easily OHKO in return with Crunch or Rock Slide. Heatran also takes very little from Chandelure's commonly used moves, being able to 2HKO back with Earth Power, but must be wary of the rare Hidden Power Ground, which will OHKO Heatran it unless it's running significant bulk investment. Heatran can also easily set up a Substitute on any of Chandelure's commonly carried moves. Politoed is also a good counter, as it not only takes Chandelure's attacks well, but also brings rain, limiting Chandelure's offensive presence, and can do a lot of damage even with an unboosted Water-type move. Most Water-types have little to fear, as Energy Ball often does not have enough power and is not too commonly seen regardless. Swampert receives a special mention as it also gets Wide Guard, stopping one of Chandelure's primary STAB moves. As for checks, Scrafty is a great check, with its great Special Defense and Dark-type STAB moves. Landorus-T can switch in on any move other than Hidden Power Ice and OHKO back with a powerful Earthquake. Hydreigon is also a great check, resisting all of Chandelure's commonly used moves bar Hidden Power Ice and easily OHKOes back with Dark Pulse. Chandelure has a very low base HP stat and its defenses are nothing special either, so even powerful neutral attacks are able to OHKO.</p>

<p>If your team is weak to Trick Room, Chandelure should be a top priority threat. As Fake Out cannot be used to stop it from setting Trick Room, Taunt and Imprison are some of the few viable ways to stop it from setting up. For example, Thundurus has a fast Taunt and numerous other supporting moves. However, Taunt (and Imprison) users must be wary of a powerful Fire Gem-boosted Overheat. While not very bulky, Trick Room Chandelure often carries a Focus Sash, so simply double targeting it can quickly dispatch of it before Trick Room can be set up.</p>

[Unreleased]

<p>While Chandelure enjoys the Fire immunity that Flash Fire provides, Shadow Tag will allow it to KO targets more reliably, notably on Choice-locked Pokemon, without fear of them switching out. Being able to trap both opposing Pokemon is also a huge plus, in many ways making it a broken, allowing you to safely switch into your own counter for their Pokemon.</p>

^_^
 
Last edited:

Nix_Hex

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good check Kingler#, here's some more corrections. stay far away from starting consecutive clauses with words like 'which' and 'who' etc.
[Overview]

<p>Chandelure is a bit of an oddball in Doubles; it's not particularly fast or bulky, which are two important traits which make Pokemon stand out. However, its saving graces come from its astounding base 145 Special Attack and access to the rather exclusive Trick Room, as well as an immunity to Fake Out, which helps its setup(??? what do you mean, did you mean to say 'it set up'? if not don't change), which adds adding up to an odd yet effective combination of offense and support.

[GP 1/2]
 
updated, thanks Kingler12345 and NixHex

i didnt change either of kingler's changes in the overview, because "helps its setup" and "helps it set up" really is the same thing. for the other, scald isn't a spread move so i didnt change that
 

Arkian

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[Overview]

<p>Chandelure is a bit of an oddball in Doubles; it's not particularly fast or bulky, which are two important traits which that make Pokemon stand out. However, its saving graces come from its astounding base 145 Special Attack and access to the rather exclusive Trick Room, as well as an immunity to Fake Out, which helps its setup, adding up to an odd yet effective combination of offense and support. It has a great ability in Flash Fire, granting it another immunity. Chandelure can also utilize the combination of Imprison and Trick Room, effectively shutting down any opposing Trick Room setters. However, it does suffer from common weaknesses from moves such as Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Scald, as well as the high usage of Tyranitar, which can defeat Chandelure with its hands tied behind its back thanks to Sand Stream and its resistance to Chandelure's STABs. Not only this, but another popular weather, rain, puts quite a damper on Chandelure's effectiveness. Even if it does suffer from common weaknesses, not many other offensive Trick Room users can hold a candle to Chandelure,(AC) as it still manages to carve out a niche as one of the most effective offensive Trick Room users in the game.</p>

[SET]
name: Offensive Trick Room
move 1: Heat Wave / Overheat
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Trick Room
move 4: Protect
item: Focus Sash / Fire Gem
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Quiet
evs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpA
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Chandelure doesn't have much use for coverage moves, which serves this set perfectly as it allows Chandelure to make room for Trick Room and the ever-useful Protect while still hitting common Pokemon such as Cresselia and Scizor for super effective damage. Heat Wave is a spread move and receives a STAB boost, allowing it to deal respectable damage to two Pokemon at once. Shadow Ball is slightly less powerful in terms of net damage, but is still more accurate, does slightly more damage to the target Pokemon, and is capable of 2HKOing Cresselia.</p>

<p>This variant of Chandelure isn't the kind of Trick Room setter that comes in at the beginning of the game with the sole purpose of setting Trick Room; rather instead (I've never seen "rather" used like this, so ignore this change if you're 100% sure it's correct the way it is), it's the Pokemon that you bring in when it can be an offensive threat against the opponent. The opponent is put in a bad position, being forced to guess between an attack and Trick Room, while Chandelure can basically do whatever it wants, especially if the Focus Sash is still intact.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Focus Sash is used to set up Trick Room more consistently, especially when considering Chandelure's rather common weaknesses, and while it doesn't offer any offensive boost, (the rest of this sentence basically states what you're trying to say without this part being included) Chandelure has a high enough Special Attack to deal consistent damage without a boost. If you really want some firepower though, look no farther than a Fire Gem-boosted Overheat. Thanks to a Gem boost, Overheat is capable of OHKOing even the bulkiest of Thundurus, and if you can manage to back it with a Helping Hand boost as well, it can OHKO specially defensive Musharna, Togekiss, and even 4/0 Garchomp. Fire Gem doesn't net any special KOs with Heat Wave, however, so when using Heat Wave, it's best to stick with Focus Sash.</p>

<p>Flame Body might be appealing to burn Tyranitar and the like, but it's important to remember that such Pokemon can just as easily use Rock Slide or other non-contact moves. This renders Flame Body useless most of the time, making Flash Fire's immunity and potential power boost more worthwhile. If you're using Chandelure for anti-Trick Room, you may might want to consider Imprison over Protect or Shadow Ball, which is the most consistent anti-Trick Room method out there, albeit highly specialized and possibly useless against any team that doesn't rely on Trick Room.</p>

<p>The EVs are distributed mainly in HP and Special Attack mainly because Chandelure doesn't have much to do with the remaining 252 EVs. 240 HP minimizes sandstorm and hail damage while the remainder is dumped into Defense. If you're worried about Genesect getting a free Special Attack boost against Chandelure, you can allocate the Defense EVs into Special Defense, though you'll have to decide what kind of attack you're most scared of; a +1 U-turn or a +1 special attack. Chandelure's Speed is minimized to take full advantage of Trick Room, though if you're building a semi-Trick Room team, you can afford to make your Chandelure faster. Spreads A spread that achieve achieves this are is Modest,(AC) and utilizes 44 Speed EVs is the minimum to overtake Cresselia and tie with Rotom-W, which is useful to deliver the final blow or deal a nice chunk of damage,; and a set with Modest with 8 Speed IVs can also be used, which as it outspeeds neutral-natured Scrafty and underspeeds (Do you mean outspeeding? This is because you say "Outspeeding these Pokemon outside of Trick Room is very important..." in the next sentence) neutral Speed neutral-natured base 70s such as Metagross as well as other Trick Room Chandelure that opt for a Quiet nature. Outspeeding these Pokemon outside of Trick Room is especially important if you're using Fire Gem Overheat, as many Pokemon around the base 60 Speed region are in danger of being OHKOed or 2HKOed by either Overheat or Shadow Ball.</p>

<p>As always, in order to set up Trick Room, you need support in the form of Fake Out or Follow Me. Amoonguss and Hariyama are two prime examples, as they not only apply pressure under Trick Room, but are also capable of patching up Chandelure's weaknesses with their opportune typing or Wide Guard. Hariyama also acts as a fantastic counter to Tyranitar, one of Chandelure's biggest counters. Scrafty and Hitmontop aren't as offensive as Hariyama, but they sport Intimidate and better overall bulk, which helps to take down Tyranitar. Other Pokemon that can make use of the twisted dimensions are obviously great partners for Trick Room Chandelure. Abomasnow breaks Chandelure's Focus Sash with its hail, but offers great offensive synergy with Blizzard and can bait Fire-type moves, allowing Chandelure to grab a free Flash Fire boost. Snow Warning also removes Drizzle's effect, making Abomasnow a nice anti-rain Pokemon to use alongside Chandelure.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Heat Wave / Overheat
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Energy Ball
move 4: Overheat / Trick
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set goes in the complete opposite direction of the Trick Room set as it aims to outspeed threats with Choice Scarf rather than underspeed them with Trick Room. This set excels at taking down Pokemon such as Latios, Garchomp, Shaymin-S, and Metagross. Heat Wave is a standard STAB move, providing spread damage with a decent Base Power. Shadow Ball is a good complementary STAB move, with providing great neutral coverage and providing super effective damage on prominent threats such as Cresselia and Latios. Hidden Power Ice is the suggested move in the third slot, allowing Chandelure to combat Pokemon with notable Ice-type weaknesses, such as Landorus-T and Garchomp. Energy Ball is a viable alternative coverage move, providing Chandelure with a way to hit bulky Water-types, notably Gastrodon and Rotom-W. However, while its coverage is acceptable, its relatively low Base Power means that even super effective hits often will not OHKO. Overheat can be used in the last slot for a single powerful attack, but forces Chandelure to switch out, while Trick is used to cripple defensive checks. Flash Fire is the preferred ability as it allows Chandelure to switch into Fire-type attacks freely while simultaneously boosting its own. (AC material?)</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Timid allows Chandelure to surpass Shaymin-S as well as well as any Pokemon with less than 213 Speed under Tailwind. A Modest nature can be used for the extra power it provides, while still letting it Chandelure outspeed Weavile and tie with Shaymin-S. Flame Body is a viable alternative, although Chandelure is often targeted by non-contact moves, such as Rock Slide and Earthquake. Furthermore, Flash Fire has more general utility, allowing Chandelure to switch in with much more ease.</p>

<p>While already supported by a strong base 145 Special Attack, Chandelure enjoys team support in the form of Helping Hand from Pokemon such as Cresselia. As Chandelure is weak to three of the most common spread moves, Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Muddy Water, Wide Guard support is also appreciated. Pokemon such as Hitmontop and Hariyama are ideal for this role, as they can also provide Fake Out, effectively protecting Chandelure while leaving it free to attack. Sun support is also favorable, making Heat Wave a much more potent spread move. Sableye is notable for this role, as it not only has access to a priority Sunny Day,(AC) but also a priority Will-O-Wisp, allowing it to manually trigger Chandelure's Flash Fire.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Chandelure has a number of other options that it can use. Hidden Power Rock and Hidden Power Ground can be used to hit Volcarona and Heatran, respectively. Heatran takes very little from Chandelure's STABs and commonly used coverage moves, so Chandelure can effectively lure in Heatran and OHKO with Hidden Power Ground. With sun support, SolarBeam can be used for more powerful coverage against Water-types. However, it should never be used outside of sun, and is shaky even with sun support due to the constant weather changes. Will-O-Wisp can be used to burn and cripple opposing physical attackers, but Chandelure is often outpaced and OHKOed by prominent physical threats, especially without team support, due to the prevalence of moves such as Earthquake and Rock Slide. Flame Charge is an interesting option for a way to boost its Chandelure's Speed, but Chandelure it is outclassed in this manner, notably by Volcarona,(AC) which sports a much better boosting move. Pain Split allows for a semi-reliable way to regain health, but Chandelure really isn't very bulky anyway and a misprediction can easily spell doom. Substitute can act as a buffer from revenge killing, but Chandelure often does not have space for it.</p>

<p>A Life Orb set is viable, providing a lot of power while retaining the ability to switch moves. Again, the loss of HP is not very noticeable, considering the fact that it Chandelure is OHKOed by most powerful moves regardless. Choice Specs allows Chandelure to act as a nuke, although the set lacks Speed and is easily revenge killed. An alternative EV spread of 240 HP / 44 SpA / 224 SpD with a Calm or Sassy nature can be used as a much more bulky set, allowing it to live a Life Orb-boosted Draco Meteor from Latios or a Shadow Ball from opposing Chandelure at full health while still retaining the ability to strike back hard.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Tyranitar is one of the best counters to Chandelure, taking little from Chandelure's STAB attacks, while being able to easily OHKO in return with Crunch or Rock Slide. Heatran also takes very little from Chandelure's commonly used moves, being and is able to 2HKO back with Earth Power, but it must be wary of the rare Hidden Power Ground, which will OHKO it unless it's running significant bulk investment. Heatran can also easily set up a Substitute on any of Chandelure's commonly carried moves. Politoed is also a good counter, as it not only takes Chandelure's attacks well, but also brings rain, limiting Chandelure's offensive presence, and can do a lot of damage even with an unboosted Water-type move. Most Water-types have little to fear, as Energy Ball often does not have enough power and is not too commonly seen regardless. Swampert receives a special mention as it also gets Wide Guard, stopping one of Chandelure's primary STAB moves. As for checks, Scrafty is a great check good one, with its great Special Defense and Dark-type STAB moves. Landorus-T can switch in on any move other than Hidden Power Ice and OHKO back with a powerful Earthquake. Hydreigon is also a great check, resisting all of Chandelure's commonly used moves bar Hidden Power Ice and easily OHKOes OHKOing back with Dark Pulse. Chandelure has a very low base HP stat and its defenses are nothing special either, so even powerful neutral attacks are able to OHKO.</p>

<p>If your team is weak to Trick Room, Chandelure should be a top priority threat. As Fake Out cannot be used to stop it from setting Trick Room, Taunt and Imprison are some of the few viable ways to stop it from setting up. For example, Thundurus has a fast Taunt and numerous other supporting moves. However, Taunt (and Imprison) users must be wary of a powerful Fire Gem-boosted Overheat. While not very bulky, Trick Room Chandelure often carries a Focus Sash, so simply double targeting it can quickly dispatch of it before Trick Room can be set up.</p>

[Unreleased]

<p>While Chandelure enjoys the Fire immunity that Flash Fire provides, Shadow Tag will allow it to KO targets more reliably, notably Choice-locked Pokemon, without fear of them switching out. Being able to trap both opposing Pokemon is also a huge plus, in many ways making it broken, allowing you to safely switch into your own counter for their Pokemon.</p>


Great job piikachuu! AllMost of my edits were subjective, so if you have any questions about them (you probably do ;_;), feel free to contact me. However, there were a couple in there that I'll leave up to you to decide whether to implement or not, as I trust you as a GP checker, but make sure you tell me regardless :)


GP Approved 2/2
 
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Flora

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Re "Rather" being used as a starting word:

From what I'm reading throughout google, the usage of "Rather" being used to start a sentence (or with a semi-colon) is fine as an alternative for "Instead" but is old language/fashion or something. Some people prefer not to use it to start a sentence but only with a semi-colon. It's more formal so you wouldn't see it in more informal writing.

(just wanted to pop in and say that!)
 

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