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Chandelure

Discussion in 'Dream World' started by New World Order, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    And here we have it. Arguably the most controversial Pokemon currently in DW OU, Chandelure thrives in this hostile environment despite the omnipresence of Rain and Tyranitar. Even with so much going against it, Chandelure is probably the most overcentralizing figure in DW OU thanks to Shadow Tag, which has forced the likes of Blissey, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory to rely on Shed Shells in order to not be picked off. With 145 base Special Attack added to its resume, and its no wonder Chandelure is one of DW OU's defining figures.

    [​IMG]
    Base Stats:
    HP: 60
    Atk: 55
    Def: 90
    SpA: 145
    SpD: 90
    Spe: 80

    Chandelure's defining trait is, of course, its ability Shadow Tag. Considered by many to be the ultimate utility Pokemon, Chandelure can perform numerous roles for a team. It can revenge kill many of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier, such as Breloom. It can also dispose of troublesome walls, such as Skarmory, to open up a sweep for one of its teammates. It can even set up itself and go on a sweep. Here are some of its most popular sets.

    Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    - Shadow Ball
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power Fighting

    This sets needs no introduction. The be all end all of offensive support Pokemon. This guy can outspeed and KO numerous slow threats, but more importantly, it can ensure a revenge kill thanks to Shadow Tag. Furthermore, it can pick off some of the most popular walls in the tier, such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory, and facilitate a sweep.

    Chandelure @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    This is the reason why just about every wall in DW OU carries a Shed Shell nowadays. The idea of Chandelure getting itself to +6/+6 behind a Substitute, and sweeping your team, is just downright frightening. If it manages to come in on a wall like, say, Blissey, and that wall lacks a Shed Shell, you can kiss two of your Pokemon goodbye. Your wall is as good as done, and you'll have to sacrifice a Pokemon to break the Substitute before proceeding for a revenge kill. A true monster.

    Counters:

    Tyranitar: Tyranitar is about as close as you're gonna get to a counter. It can come in on anything except Hidden Power Fighting, and either force on the ghost chandelier with Crunch, or pick it off with Pursuit, effectively ending its rampage.

    Rain Teams: While Politoed itself wont enjoy eating a Shadow Ball or Energy Ball one bit, its ability to summon Rain and hence nerf Chandelure's Fire STAB is invaluable. Rain sweepers also tend to fare well against it, as they can demolish Chandelure with a Rain boosted Water STAB.

    Discuss
  2. zarator

    zarator Credits to Mos-Quitoxe for the cute sprite^^
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    You possibly mean Shadow Ball?
  3. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Porygon2 isn't immune to Fire attacks because it won't be Tracing Flash Fire. In my experiences facing it, I've found that it's almost always Scarfed and usually ends up getting one kill before I Pursuit it to death. I've also seen many of them running HP Ice, presumably to take out Dragon-types, so you could slash that as an option next to HP Fighting.
  4. tomtom5858

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    Flamethrower is better on SubCM. The power doesn't matter at +6, and the PP and Accuracy are killjoys.
  5. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    also: hp ice takes out gliscor while i don't think fire blast manages the OHKO. also, overheat should be slashed with fire blast imo.
  6. ala

    ala
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    I use this set:

    bro (Chandelure) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Overheat
    - Psychic
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    I find it to be the most effective, unless for some reason Gastrodon or something is used more. Psychic is great for breloom, blaziken, tenta, hurt conkles and other shit that you don't want to risk the Overheat miss on. Hp Ice is good for Gliscor and especially Garchomp for obvious reasons. Sball for stab and Overheat cause I prefer the power to Fire Blast. Chand isn't staying in anyway so w/e if I need a move to spam I'll use Sball. Oh and I use modest cause more power is better than the speed you gain which is minimal rly. You outspeed Jolteon with timid but imo that doesn't matter much.
  7. Iceydude168

    Iceydude168

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    Stallbane (Chandelure) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Curse
    - Flamethrower
    - Pain Split

    Say goodbye to Ferrothorn and your Pink Blob, whether it be Chansey or Blissey. Oh, and any Steel type without Sturdy not called Heatran or Excadrill. And any Pokemon without an attacking move that can do significant damage to Chandelure. While the Scarf set decimates offense, the Stallbreaker set kicks stall in the ass and pushes it into a ditch. It's a very good pivot to get past Sciztom (trap a Scizor and kill it), it can check Breloom as long as it doesn't get into a Rock move or Spore, and it can be used in place of Magnezone if you're running a Dragon. While Magnezone may have a better Defensive typing, there's nothing like getting rid of Ferrothorn AND Chansey AND Blissey AND Skarmory AND Magnezone AND *insert Steel here* AND *insert wall here*. Send in Chandelure, KO a wall, and watch your opponent cry as their team is decimated by 5 Specs Dragons?
  8. Lee

    Lee @ Thick Club
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    Anybody thought of using a set along these lines, with a Colbur Berry? Escaping Tyranitar and getting to kill yet another Pokemon later in the match could be game-breaking. Unfortunately, Choice Band Pursuit still kills you right through the berry, but I'm assuming that isn't the most common set? It would also confirm he's Choice-locked and you get a turn to set up your Keldeo or Excadrill or what-have-you. The other concern is whether 284 Spe is fast enough to revenge-kill the things Chandelure is usually expected to snipe.
  9. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
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    On my rain team I use Hidden Power [Fighting] Chandelure for catch Tyranitar lacking Shed Shell, but I fear that if their Tyranitar doesn't heal itself and they run Chandelure also, they may be holding Shed Shell. I use Hidden Power [Ice] on my sand team so I can remove Gliscor and weaken bulky Ground-types in general; mainly for Excadrill.

    I wish it got Trick...
  10. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    This could be a good set but you need to run Leftovers instead of Choice Scarf so that 3/4 of your movepool isn't completely wasted. I still think the Sub CM set is more potent than this, though.

    The standard Choice Scarf set could potentially work with a Colbur Berry, but you wouldn't be able to trap fast Pokemon as easily. Although, if your team only needs you to take out walls, then that would probably be a great strategy.
  11. Iceydude168

    Iceydude168

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    Whoops I meant Choice Scarf lol. Copy pasting is bad for the brain...

    Anyone gonna consider Acid Armor over Shadow Ball on SubCM Chandelure? If you're not immune to fire it often pulls off a clean sweep. It does require support to remove Politoed and Hazards, maybe Tentacruel would be a decent partner? Then you need a weather starter and Ninetales is just terrible because now you have 3 Pokemon weak to Ground. I might test it out on a Hail team later
  12. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    The only weather Sub CM Chandelure should be trying to abuse is Sun. Rain takes away from Fire Blasts power while Sandstorm and Hail negate its Leftovers recovery.

    Acid Armor does make it sound like Chandelure would be able to set up on more things but I think Flame Charge would be a better move so Chandelure can outspeed everything and would then only have to worry about Sucker Punch ruining its sweep.
  13. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Anyone tried Sunnybeaming Chandelure? That thing is really dirty. You can easily switch into stuff like bulky Politoed on the revenge, use Sunny Day to take weak Scalds and then Solarbeam its ass. Either Politoed is dead after the encounter, or severely wounded enough so you bring in trapper #2 (Dugtrio) to finish it off. Now you have free rein for your sun team!

    Basically:
    Chandelure @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry
    Ability: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Sunny Day
    - Flamethrower
    - Solarbeam
    - Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Fighting

    If you use Colbur Berry, you can even take a Crunch from Tyranitar, set up the sun and then Solarbeam it for Duggy to pick off as well. Note this doesn't work on ScarfTar or Tyranitars with Stone Edge. Doesn't really work on Scarf Politoed as well, and Specs might end up killing you even if it is sunny.
  14. Jukain

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    shrang you have an interesting mind. Also, seems like a good set.
  15. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    That does seem like a very interesting set, but Scarftoed gives it problems (I'm surprised Scarftoed isn't used more considering how useful it is in this metagame), but then again merely having Chandelure on your team pretty much forces Politoed to always Surf when it has an opening for fear of being trapped while locked into Ice Beam or the like and quickly picked off. Specs Toed might be able to OHKO through sun (I wouldn't be surprised since uninvested Tyranitar can OHKO Chandy with Crunch), but Bulkytoed does get screwed over well and good by this set, and it seems to be the most popular variant of Politoed atm. That Chandy set would also make for an interesting Tyranitar trapper, but Focus Sash might be necessary so that you don't get screwed by random Stone Edges while using Sunny Day, and obviously that is a very situational and risky item when attempting to trap a Pokemon with Sand Stream and access to Stealth Rock.

    Also as an aside since I've seen the issue come up before; Shadow Tag Pokemon can switch out of each other. Chandelure can't trap Chandelure, etc.
  16. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    Taunt/Toxic Chandelure is really good as strictly a wallbreaker, seeing as how +6 Fire Blast from Chandy does less than 50% to Chansey in the rain. Taunt is also all around really useful for a lot of random things and it's helpful for Ttar if you don't want to take the full powered Pursuit. It's somewhat situational but still useful for walls if your opponent spams Shed Shell.
  17. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

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    Set Name: Stallbane
    Ability: Shadow Tag
    Item: Leftovers
    EVs: (IDK, suck at EVing)
    Nature: Timid (?)
    -Taunt
    -Substitute
    -Pain Split
    -Fire Blast

    Akin to the set above, but can really kill Blissey after a bit of SubSpliting.
  18. Tobes

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    Wouldn't it make more sense to run Toxic than Pain Split? A Taunted Blissey can't touch Chandelure anyways, so Leftovers will restore all of your health from setting up a Sub while Blissey slows dies. Granted, this is a moot point if Blissey runs Shed Shell, which I'm sure a lot of them do for fear of SubCM Chandelure.
  19. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Man, I just don't think that this thing is very good. It's decent against sun and really good against weatherless teams, i'll give it that. But weather is the metagame, with Tyranitar being the most used Pokemon, and Politoed being at number 9. Tyranitar Pursuits it after Lure as killed something, and rain teams really don't care too much about it(imo). At best, Chandelure is a 1 for 1. But this 1 for 1 requires Rapid Spin support since it's weak to every form of hazard. I'm not saying Chandelure is bad, I just don't think it deserves the number 1 spot(even though i think it's like 24 in 1337 usage).
  20. Tendie

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    This seems an option prevalent enough to be worth mentioning:
    (Chandelure) (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Acid Armor
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute
    - Hidden Power [Dragon]


    Blissey is the easiest to set up on, but when used in conjunction with Switcheroo/Trick, I have seen this moveset used to great effect.
  21. Danilo

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    set seems really gimmicky. i played against it yesterday and it didnt do much.
  22. Tendie

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    Gimmick or not, it is a moveset that people should be wary of, especially people with Blissey. This should be mentioned for the same reason Entrainment should be mentioned on Durant's guide; it's something that is out there, and can be effective.
  23. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
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    I don't know why people opt for Modest on the Scarf set. Timid Politoed makes a mockery of it, as would the likes of ScarfHeracross.

    I think Timid hits hard enough, and that nature ensures you can at least tie with Jolly DDNite (unless it holds Yache Berry for whatever reason) after a Dragon Dance.
  24. Tendie

    Tendie

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    With +6 SpA, what is the reason for choosing Fire Blastover Flamethrower? Are there any notable differences that this change in power makes?
  25. Omicron

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    The reason is because Chandelure won't always get up to +6. Fire Blast is much more powerful than Flamethrower at +1, and even +2. In addition, if the opponent carries a Shed Shell, you can smack the switch-in with a powerful Fire Blast since you most likely won't get the opportunity to boost up all the way to +6.

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