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Chandelure

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by tennisace, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. tennisace

    tennisace brock you like a hurricane
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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]/[​IMG]

    Weak to: Rock, Water, Dark, Ghost, Ground
    Resists: Bug (4x), Fire (sans Flash Fire), Grass, Ice, Steel, Poison
    Immune: Fighting, Normal, Fire (with Flash Fire)

    60 HP / 55 Atk / 90 Def / 145 SpA / 90 SpD / 80 Spe

    Bold things are cool!

    Abilities:
    Flash Fire
    Flame Body

    Dream World Ability:
    Shadow Tag

    Level Up Moves (open)

    Note: Shanderaa evolves via Dusk Stone, so these are its prevo's moves.
    Lv1: Ember
    Lv1: Astonish
    Lv1: Minimize
    Lv1: Smog
    Lv3: Minimize
    Lv5: Smog
    Lv7: Fire Spin
    Lv10: Confuse Ray
    Lv13: Night Shade
    Lv16: Will-o-Wisp
    Lv20: [M481]
    Lv24: Imprison
    Lv28: [M506]
    Lv33: Memento
    Lv38: Purgatory
    Lv45: Curse
    Lv53: Shadow Ball
    Lv61: Pain Split
    Lv69: Overheat


    [M481]: Special Fire PP: 15 Power: 70 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: Also damages allies slightly
    [M506]: Special Ghost PP: 10 Power: 50 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: Power 100 if target has status condition
    Purgatory: Special Fire PP: 5 Power: 100 / Accuracy: 50 Effect: May burn opponent. (100%)


    Learnable TMs (open)

    TM04 - Calm Mind
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM10 - Hidden Power

    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM12 - Taunt
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM19 - Telekinesis
    TM20 - Safeguard
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM22 - Solar Beam
    TM27 - Return
    TM29 - Psychic
    TM30 - Shadow Ball
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM35 - Flamethower
    TM38 - Fire Blast

    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Nitro Charge
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM46 - Thief
    TM48 - Troll
    TM50 - Overheat
    TM53 - Energy Ball
    TM59 - Complete Burn
    TM61 - Will-O-Wisp
    TM63 - Embargo
    TM66 - Payback
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM77 - Psych Up
    TM85 - Dream Eater
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM92 - Trick Room


    Nitro Charge: Special Fire, 50 BP, 100% Acc, chance to raise speed


    Oh Gamefreak. Your power creep from the third generation on has been exponentially increasing. Shanderaa is a perfect example of what Power Creep has done. It's stats are somewhat comparable to Rotom-A's stats last generation, at least in distribution. It has good defenses with Low HP, poor attack, and mid-level speed that allows it to outspeed a majority of the slower tanks. However, the one stat that immediately jumps out at you is the 145 Special Attack. People gawked at Rhyperior's 140 Attack last generation and threw out claims of BROKEN (which was eventually proven very wrong, but that's neither here nor there). Shanderaa now smashed both Alakazam and Porygon-Z for the title of the highest non-legendary Special Attack stat by 10 points. Lets put this into perspective: Under the old EV/IV system (supposedly it changed), A Specs Shanderaa with a Flash Fire boost can clean 2hko standard Blissey, doing a minimum of 51%. There are extremely few Special Attacks that can feasibly do that with that little set up. If Flash Fire wasn't a good enough ability, it also gets Shadow Tag from the Dream World. This allows it to trap walls/choice locked Fighting/Normal attacks, set up, and kill them at its leisure. Unlike Wobbuffet, Shanderaa packs a serious punch.

    However, the downside is that Shanderaa has 5 common weaknesses: Dark, Ghost, Rock, Ground, and Water. This leaves Shanderaa not only Stealth Rock weak, but Pursuit weak. In addition, Shanderaa doesn't have Levitate, unlike Rotom-A, which means it is susceptible to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. In addition, it is outsped by a myriad of new and old threats, starting from Gyarados and including both new Dragons (Ononokuso and Sazando). This is slightly crippling, although I expect Shanderaa to be used as a weapon against stall mainly (as if we needed more), instead of against faster offensive teams.

    Here are some sample movesets I thought up for Shanderaa to fit the role of Stall-Breaker:

    Shanderaa @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shadow Tag
    Nature: Bold / Timid
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spe (or 252 HP, 4 Def, 252 Spe for Timid)
    ~Substitute/Pain Split
    ~Calm Mind
    ~Flamethrower
    ~Shadow Ball

    Say hello to my little friend. This set can trap things like Blissey, Sub to block status, CM up to +6, and just rape. Faster Physical attackers do put a severe damper on your fun though... which is why after you kill something, you switch out, and come back in later! In addition, you could also put Will-o-Wisp in this set somewhere to cripple Physical attackers after you get a kill, OR Memento so that your target cannot escape.

    I can envision Shanderaa working with a faster special attacker to lure out special walls and crush them. Alternately it could work with Tyranitar and other Fighting weak Pokemon, luring them out and killing them. This set could do away with choiced Fighting-type Pokemon for a long time.


    Shanderaa @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
    Ability: Flash Fire
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Energy Ball/HP Ground
    ~Overheat

    With Shanderaa appearing to be Trick-less (no tutor moves/egg move data yet), choice sets don't really have a means to cripple walls. However, I'm not sure you'd want to get rid of the sheer power of choice sets. Overheat smashes anything and everything not 4x resistant or immune to fire moves, and Fire Blast, as I already said, can 2hko Blissey. If you want to use Shanderaa as a revenge killer, Scarf is available, and it outspeeds Scarftran. Shanderaa doesn't get much in the way of coverage, however, it does get Energy Ball to put the hurt on Water-types not named Gyarados/Empoleon. Keep in mind though that Neutral Fire Blast does more than 2x Energy Ball, and neutral Shadow Ball is more powerful than neutral Energy Ball. Also, Shanderaa has access to Hidden Power Ground to smash Heatran into little volcano bits. Again though, neutral Fire Blast is more powerful than 2x HP Ground, so the coverage move isn't all that important.

    Offensive Shanderaa could easily be partnered with Pokemon who are weak to fire, mainly Aiinto, Birijon, Kobaruon, and Scizor. Birijon and Kobaruon especially are good partners, since they take no damage from Dark-type attacks and it raises their attack.

    So there you have it. Shanderaa certainly has its drawbacks, however, it still has the ability to smash large holes into teams if played right.
  2. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Shanderaa is going to be scary. Right when Forretress and Skarmory started becoming standards, this happens. Nitro Charge is IMO a better option than Flamethrower on the CM set, so that you aren't revenge killed after trapping that Blissey or Snorlax (even with 50 BP, +6 STAB Nitro Charge off of base 145 SpAtk is going to be killing almost everything).

    Don't use Flash Fire on the choice set IMO; Shadow Tag is way too good to pass up. Besides, why would you want something that yuou're about to revenge kill to switch out? Anyway, I'd be really surprised if Shanderaa wasn't given a run for its money in terms of possibly being voted to Ubers, simply because of his ability to trap and KO so many Pokemon, most notably Steel and Grass types.
  3. EvilMario

    EvilMario

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    Its typing is both a blessing and a curse. It will appreciate Aiming Mark removing entry hazards quite a bit.

    One thing to keep in mind is that without item transfers from previous generation, Choice Items have not yet surfaced in the 5th generation.
  4. Percival

    Percival

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    Shanderaa is the only pokemon in generation 5 that I'm planning to use straight away.

    My first thoughts were to use it as a revenge killer with a scarf, but the calm mind set seems interesting too.
  5. AJC

    AJC

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    choice items were already confirmed as existed in code as well has life orb
  6. Wishy

    Wishy

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    What? Aiming Mark doesn't remove entry hazards...?

    I'd say to go with Nitro Charge on the CM set like someone else mentioned, or slash it in. If you trap something and CM up, Nitro Charge can also net you some speed boosts as you don't want to be left with a extremely powerful sweeper who will be outsped and KO'd next turn anyway. 60/90/90 aren't the best defenses, but good enough to take resisted hits and whatnot.

    Dammit, are you sure? I don't believe it is.
  7. DashB

    DashB

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    It's going to be a beastly pokemon. Here's the moveset I'm thinking of running:

    ~ Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    ~ Shadow Ball
    ~ Nitro Boost
    ~ Substitute / HP Fighting / Calm Mind


    Just lure the corresponding move and he'll be able to sweep:

    If you're running a Flash Fire set, lure a (preferarbly choiced) fire move. It won't be too hard, considering the number of Sunny Day teams around now that DroughtTales exists. Nitro Boost for the speed, and then Flamethrower/Fire Blast (with STAB + Sunny Day + Flash Fire bonuses) away.

    If you're running Shadow Tag, then lure a (preferarbly choiced) fighting move (with TTar, for example). Nitro Boost while laughing at the opponent's pathetic attempt to damage, and sweep away. You can also switch in on a Fake Out, Facade, or other normal-type moves.


    The 145 Sp. Atk make it powerful enough to do serious damage without any Sp. Attack boosting. There is, however, Calm Mind. HP Fighting gives great coverage.


    This thing promises to be hell when it comes to sweepers like Infernape or the new Speed Boost Blaziken.
  8. Hamme Van

    Hamme Van

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    This is possibly my favorite gen 5 'mon so far, 5 resistances and 3 immunities is awesome. It may have common and exploitable weaknesses, but who cares? Its a freaking chandelier with insane Special Attack and decent defenses and speed with three good abilities (even if some are way better than others - Shadow Tag > Flame Body cough cough).
  9. tennisace

    tennisace brock you like a hurricane
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    I'm not sure about this. On the one hand, yes it is really nice to completely trap the opponent's Pokemon. On the other hand, an extra immunity is also nice, especially when the immunity comes with a power boost. In addition, you force the opponent's team to switch around more and play around Shanderaa's attacks, weakening it's checks in the process through repeated attacks and entry hazard damage. Momentum isn't an issue in this case since either Shanderaa's checks come in when it traps and kills something, or Shanderaa's checks switch in on an attack.

    Edit: According to the list stickied on this forum (Data: All base stats + moves), M488 is Physical, base 50, 100 Acc. According to the translating move/ability/item names thread, M488 is Nitro Charge. So yes, Nitro Charge is Physical to the best of my knowledge.
  10. WarriorPrince

    WarriorPrince

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    TM43: Nitro Charge [Fire, Physical / Power: 50 / Accuracy: 100% / Raises user's speed after attacking]

    Nitro Charge is move 488.

    [M488]: Physical Fire PP: 20 Power: 50 / Accuracy: 100 Effect: [E127]

    You can't just assume something and think it is accurate.
  11. tup

    tup

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    Well if it is that's a big blow to Shanderaa's hopes of being an Uber. Still has plenty of viable options though and we should be seeing him a bit in OU after the metagame stabilizes a bit.
  12. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Hopes? Bans are something that should be avoided whenever possible.
  13. Wishy

    Wishy

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    After reading the Warubiaru thread I couldn't help but think how Waru and Shanderaa might compliment each other...

    Shanderaa resists Ice and Bug, and is immune to Fighting (3/4 of Waru's main weaknesses) but they do share that last 1/4 (water!). Warubiaru resists Dark and Rock, which are problems for Shanderaa.

    EDIT: [Forgot] Waru is also weak to Grass, which Shanderaa also resists :)

    How Waru and Shanderaa help each other:
    - He can lure out stuff like Fighting types or Scizor (Shanderaa's defenses 60/90/90 aren't amazing, I'm not sure how much Bullet Punch would but it does 4x resist X-Scissor) only for Waru to switch to Shadow Tag Shanderaa who can net a fast kill with it's 145 base special, or set up on something.
    - Waru Eliminates Pursuit users like Tyranitar for Shanderaa to pull off an easier sweep. Waru resists TTar's STAB and counters with his own SE STAB Earthquake.

    I think it's a neat and effective offensive partnership. Shanderaa with Shadow Tag can open plenty of holes in the opponents team for Waru to clean up later, or vice versa (Waru's STAB EQ can weaken the other team only for Shanderaa to clean up with Choice Scarf Fire Blasts). Waru has decent speed, but Shanderaa (Since it cannot use Nitro Charge effectively D:) isn't the fastest. Both benefit from have a third support to paralyze the other team (Something that can cover there Water weaknesses??).

    Just theorymoning. Any glaring problems with that match up I looked over?
  14. Blood Tears

    Blood Tears

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    I think nobody is going to use Choice Pokémon with Normal and Fighting moves. If this thing switchs into a choiced normal/fighting move, it can trap your pokémon, calm mind, get speed boost from nitro charge and destroy all your team.
  15. Chateau

    Chateau

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    Does Aiming Mark ignore only type immunites, or abilities as well? Because an Aiming Mark Fire Blast could be a huge "Fuck you" to Heatran, and other new Flash Fire users.
  16. Random Pizzaman

    Random Pizzaman

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    I'm most excited for the choice scarf revenge killer with Shadow Tag; the possibilities for it are huge. Some things it can come in on and trap- kill:
    • Pretty much anything off Lucario (especially SD; watch out for Agility) and OHKO it easily not fearing any priority from it.
    • Pretty much everything from Heatran but Earth Power, OHKO with HP Ground
    • After Breloom has slept something, you can take anything but maybe Stone Edge from it and OHKO with Flamethrower.
    • You resist everything from Scizor (obvs watch for U-turn), and it's an easy OHKO
    • The new bug/ steels and the new grass/ steel, along with Skarmory/ Foretress setting up hazzards
    • Most fighting types using fighting attacks. They tend to have low SpD, so it shouldn't be hard to OHKO some of them (Infernape, Hitmonlee, a couple of the new fighting types)
    • The new grass/ fighting legendary is an easy switch and OHKO
    • Things you can revenge after a KO: Sand Throw Doryuzuu, Tyranitar (HP Fight), Magnezone (Ironic), any Heatran, Starmie, Gengar, most psychics and grasses, and tons more.
    So yeah... this thing is gonna be VERY useful.
  17. Pratty

    Pratty

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    What if you threw in Suicune to the Shanderaa/Warubiaru mix?

    Water Absorb Suicune absorbs the water weakness, should probably be able to help against other bulky waters and outlast them, and should be able to effectively help bust the specially defensive walls Shanderaa might face.

    Sazanado could be another useful partner, drawing in fighting moves for Shanderaa and resisting dark, water. It could also go mixed or hard on either side to help both Warubiaru and Shanderaa.
  18. FerrariCUBU

    FerrariCUBU

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    I totally agree. Shadow Tag plus 145 base Sp Atk and decent defenses is just asking for Uber status. If Wobbuffet remains Uber in 5th gen then I see no way that Shanderaa wouldn't go Uber.
  19. NeoSeth

    NeoSeth

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    Unaware Quagsire = best counter ever. 'Nuff said.
  20. CTI

    CTI black

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    No, not really. Shanderaa can learn energy ball via TM.
  21. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    This thread is for discussing the pokemon and its viable sets, not whether it's uber. We'll figure that out when we playtest the 5th gen later. I personally think that the SubCM set is amazing; it might make Shed Shell a standard on defensive pokemon. And Bibarel works better than Quaqsire-it's immune to Shadow Ball.
  22. CTNC

    CTNC

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    I know the last post here was was 30 hours ago but I want to add a gimmicky sounding moveset

    Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    Solarbeam/Energy Ball
    Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Overheat/Hidden Power(Ground/Rock/Electric)
    Impresion

    This moveset is made to destroy Sun Sweepers but always use Ninetails with this moveset so Shanderaa can use Solarbeam without charge up. If the opponent's pokemon has any moves that your pokemon Impresion drops the move's PP to 0 which means no more Solarbeam for whatever pokemon the opponent has out. The third move is another fire type move if you're worried about the opponent's fire types having a different fire type attack than you, or Hidden Power to ruin Grass types with Hidden Power Fire and Fire Types with Hidden Power. Also, you might want to consider Electric over Rock/Ground incase you run into a Rain Team.
  23. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    Shanderra should be metagame-Changing. 145 Sp.Atk is _Amazing_ , and Shadow Tag adds to the madness. The Reason why Choiced Fighting- Typed moves are a bad idea.



    If it weren't for that 80 Base Speed and His Weaknesses, He'd be one of (if not the) best Pokemon in OU.
  24. Yogi Bear.

    Yogi Bear.

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    Huge weakness to Ground/Rock/Water with DroughTales AND Shanderaa. Hippowdon will just laugh at you as it sets up Stealth Rock AND changes the weather meaning that in order to use a 1 turn boost Solarbeam you need to switch to something, then BACK to DroughTales to make the weather sunny, then to Shanderaa. Shanderaa COULD trap Hippowdon with Shadow Tag but does it REALLY want to do that when it doesn't have Levitate and Hippowdon carries EQ on virtually every set?
    Not much of a difference with Tyranitar/DrizzleToad.
    hobbybutterfly likes this.
  25. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    He may still be. It's too early to say, and he certainly seems to have the potential for it.

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