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Change is Good [Balanced Offensive]

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by MCRandom, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. MCRandom

    MCRandom

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Introduction:

    Well Smogonites and Smogoniers, I made this team a couple of days ago and have been laddering and battling with friends with it a lot, but have hit a stand still on the ladder just underneath 1400, and am hoping that i can put your infinite knowledge to use again, and fix the errors this team may have. Unlike most people, when Salamence went Uber, I stopped playing Stall and went to Offensive, since my best stall teams all had Salamence on them, I decided to try Offensive again and I am absolutely loving it in this Stall Happy metagame, because it seems as though people have forgot how dangerous a good Offensive team can be. So with out further adu, heres the team.

    *Changes in bold

    Team at a Glance:


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]Lead[​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Roserade[F]@Choice Scarf
    Ability: Natural Cure
    4 Hp / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    Moves:
    -Sleep Powder
    -Leaf Storm
    -Hidden Power[Fire]
    -Toxic Spikes

    Why?

    Roserade is one of the best leads ive ever used on an offensive team. She starts the match out in my favor 99% of the time, and helps me build up the offensive momentum that this team needs. When i was building this team, I had about 4 of the members selected when i knew i was going to need a lead and in the past I have had problems finding a lead that had good synergy with the team, so i decided to jump the gun and decide my lead right then and there. Looking at my team, I already had a SR user in Heatran, so i decided to go with an Anti-Lead, and Roserade is on of the best anti-leads out there. Also, she can serve as a backup revenge killer if Flygon happens to go down, or if something threatens Flygon and not Roserade. She can either threaten to revenge kill with one of her 3 moves, or simply sleep them before they have a chance to do any significant damage.

    How?

    One of the main problems I had with Focus Sash Roserade was its lackluster speed stat, which caused her to autolose to almost anything faster than her. By equipping her with a Choice Scarf, it effectively solves this problem, and she is able to sleep almost every lead out there. As for her ability, Natural Cure was the only option, but it is a great one, that allows her to repeatedly switch into ThunderWaves, Spores, and because of her typing, Toxic's too. The Ev's and Nature allow her to hit as hard as possible, while allowing her to outrun anything up to positive natured +1 base 90s, because unfortunately, due to the loss of 1 point because of using Hp Fire, she cant tie with +1 base 95s. Sleep Powder is obviosly the key to the set, and is 99% of the time the move i lead off with, as I can outspeed and sleep most leads. Leaf Storm is an insanely strong STAB attack and tears appart anything that doesnt resist it, and is Roserade's Strongest move. Hidden Power Fire is great move for coverage, hitting steels hard, especially Scizor and Forretress, and can 2ko lead Skarmorys which is very useful to stop spikes from coming up. Last but not least, Sludge Bomb is Roserade's Seconday STAB move, and the most reliable one on the set. It is really Roserade's best move as far as sweeping is concerned, but doesnt find much use against other leads bar the odd Celebi lead.

    What?

    Weaknesses: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Resistances: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Immunites:

    Lead Comparisons:


    Show Hide
    [​IMG]-Outspeed and Sleep Powder, or Leaf Storm can OHKO non focus sash variants.

    [​IMG]-Ouspeed and Sleep Powder

    [​IMG]-Leaf Storm OHKOs, that way i can save the sleep for a more threatening pokemon.

    [​IMG]-Sigh...sadly i lose to Machamp 75% of the time, Leaf Storm can 2ko non Ice Punch variants, but even that is 50/50 cause of the dynamic punch confusion :.(

    [​IMG]-Most run Lum Berry so i usually Hp Fire for the 2ko.

    [​IMG]-Take the trick and Sleep Powder or Hp Fire for the 2ko, most dont expect Scarf.

    [​IMG]-Outspeed and sleep.

    [​IMG]-Outspeed and Ohko with HpFire if it doesnt protect, if it does go into Gengar to set up.

    [​IMG]-Beat it to the sleep.

    [​IMG]
    -Leaf Storm for the OHKO, or sleep powder on the predicted switch.



    [​IMG]Stealth Rocker[​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Heatran[F]@Shuca Berry
    Ability: Flash Fire
    4 Atk / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
    Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
    Moves:
    -Stealth Rock
    -Fire Blast
    -Earth Power
    -Explosion

    Why?

    As I said earlier, Heatran is the pokemon that enabled me to run an anti-lead. He is almost always able to set up Stealth Rocks, and if by a fluke of nature he does not, he will have taken out 1-2 pokemon already in an effort to get SR up. When I started this team, I knew I wanted this heatran already because from personal experience, I knew how good it was, and I knew i wanted to run an Anti-Lead, and Heatran allowed me to do that. His resistances are always nice to have, especially when u take into effect how bulky he is, and the fact that he runs Shuca Berry. If he survives past setting up Stealth Rocks, which is very common, He can cause the opponent hell as they try to get in something that can hit him and do significant damage.

    How?

    As opposed to Choice Scarf Heatran, who's goal is to sweep, this Heatran's goal is twofold. First and foremost, setting up Stealth Rock is the main goal of this set, and it does it flawlessly. Secondly, Using a combination of an insanely powerful Fire Blast, Shuca Berry, and Explosion to give the opponents team hell and open up holes for someone else to sweep. Stealth Rock is pretty self explanatory. It is great because of all the switches my team causes, and it turns many 2kos into OHKOs, 3kos into 2kos, and so on and so forth. Fire Blast is Heatran's main form of attack, and hits anything, even who resist it, extremely hard, even 2koing most Starmie. Earth Power is a great move for coverage, and is great against other Choice Scarf Heatran's thinking to get a quick KO on me, but thanks to Shuca Berry I can survive and OHKO right back, and it also hits most things that resist Fire Blast neutral. Finally, Explosion is very useful for taking out the pink blob, or just going out with a bang as a die, usually taking someone else with me.

    What?

    Weaknesses:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Resistances:[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Immunitites: [​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]Scout[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Scizor@Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    68 Hp / 252 Atk / 12 Spe / 176 SpD
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    Moves:
    -Bullet Punch
    -Superpower
    -U-Turn
    -Pursuit

    Why?

    I think everybody should be familiar with how awesome Choice Band Scizor is *lol*. I dont care how many people are using it, this set is still absolutely amazing. Even with Salamence gone, there are infinite uses for Scizor. The EV spread may look a little odd at first, but it allows Scizor to take Focus Blasts and Surfs like a pro, so it can pursuit Gengar and Starmie a little easier. When making this team I Needed somebody to draw fire attacks for Heatran to absorb, and who better than Scizor, and Scizor's resistances also fit in nicely.

    How?

    Scizor is mainly used to pursuit annoying special attackers, and any other frail pokemon such as Flygon or Aerodactyl. Also, it is extremely helpful having something that can once or for all rid me of Blissey with either Pursuit or Superpower. Bullet Punch is amazing on Scizor, as you all should know, and it is another part of my revenging trio. Superpower is an insanely powerful attack coming off a 591 attack stat, and easily takes care of anything its supereffective against. U-Turn is probably my favorite move on this set, and takes about 30-40% out of anything that doesnt resist it, and is an awesome tool for scouting out the opponents team. Lastly, Pursuit is amazing, easily Koing Starmie and Gengar, and taking around 50% from a switching Blissey, giving my other mons a much easier time dealing with her.

    What?

    Weaknesses: [​IMG]
    Resistances: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Immunities: [​IMG]



    [​IMG]Sweeper[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Gengar@Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    4 Hp / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    Moves:
    -Substitute
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Pain Split

    Why?

    Um...Where do I get started? Gengar is, in my opinion, the single best pokemon in this new metagame. Because of this, I originally chose gengar to base this team around. I originally had a Substitute Leftovers Gengar here with Thunderbolt, which gave offensive teams hell, but I had problems with stall and so switched it to this set, which is still a pain in the ass for offense, but utterely destroys stall, 2koing almost every standard member of a stall team. Gengar's ability, Levitate, is amazing for getting such a frail pokemon onto the field succesfully, and is great against Choiced EQ users, for I can set up a free substitute, and from there, its all downhill for the other team.

    How?

    Depending on the team, I use gengar differently. Versus Stall or Semi-Stall. Gengar is deployed mid game, to break the stall apart, and almost never fails at doing so, and can actually take on blissey :D. Versus Offense on the other hand, Gengar is kept a secret until late game, when he will be sent out to do a clean up sweep with a powerful shadow ball and Focus Blast, as well as blazing speed. Substitute is amazing on Gengar, because it eases the need for prediction, and allows it to combat both scarfTar, and Scizor to an extent, as well as providing Gengar with a shield from which to attack behind, and because of his good speed, it can last for a long time without even needing to take a hit, but is most important against scarfers who would otherwise swiftly KO my beloved ghost. Shadow Ball is Gengar's main form of attack, and even though it has only 80 Bp, it hits incredibly hard coming off Gengar's great SpA stat. Focus Blast provides perfect coverage alongside Shadow Ball, and even though its accuracy is less than ideal, it gets the job done, since the majority of the time Gengar is behind a sub, and will get 2 chances for it to hit. Pain Split on Gengar is a GodSend, and allows me to heal off the 16% damage im usually taking per turn :/ and weakens the opponent into likely KO range at the same time, and alongside Focus Blast, allows Gengar to combat Blissey, its Ex-nemesis.

    What?

    Weaknesses:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Resistances: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Immunities: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    [​IMG]Revenger[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Flygon@Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    Moves:
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -ThunderPunch
    -U-Turn

    Why?

    Well I needed a revenger, because Scizor wasnt going to be able to revenge the whole metagame with his Bullet Punch, so I settled on my new favorite pokemon, Flygon. Flygon's ability and resistances fitted in nicely with the team, and his ability to revenge kill practically any OU threat is invaluable. She has nice coverage and the ability to sweep late game with the appropriate move once all levitators/flyers or Steels are gone, and can help me scout out the opponents team early game, and I chose to go with an Adamant Nature due to the threat of DDMence being removed.

    How?

    Flygon has awesome type Coverage for a revenger in the OU metagame, and can also sweep late game. Usually, Flygon does not even make an appearance until late game when the opponent tries to set up, and then comes in for the revenge kill and/or sweep. Outrage, as you all probably know, is insanely powerful coming from any Dragon, and rips teams to shreds once all the steels have been eliminated, and allows me to revenge kill DDNite. Earthquake is almost as powerfull as Outrage, and is a great move to get rid of any steels that would hamper my sweep with Outrage. Thunderpunch is solely a revenging move, and it allows me to revenge kill DDGyara, Starmie, and weakened Suicune no matter how many CMs they have set up. U-Turn is awesome on Flygon because of his blazing speed, and is great to get in a counter to their switch in, and helps me scout their team to know when to switch in Gengar.

    What?

    Weaknesses:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Resistances: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Immunities: [​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG]Spinner[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Starmie@Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    40 Def / 216 spe / 252 SpA
    Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Surf
    -Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam
    -Rapid Spin

    Why?

    Well I had Gengar who really hurt stall, but I needed a final nail in the coffin for stall teams, the answer, this Starmie. It can effectively Rapid spin against Stall and Semi-Stall teams, since no ghost likes taking a STAB surf to the face, and Starmie's perfect type coverage causes many switches, therefore many chances to spin away. Also, I needed somebody else to take Water attacks aimed at Heatran, and I didnt have a single Water or Ice type attack on the team, which made Starmie an easy choice.

    How?

    Well, Starmie has 1 job and 1 job only against stall teams, GET RID OF ENTRY HAZARDS. But, against offensive teams, she serves as a late game sweaper once the opponents team has been weakened a little bit. She usually comes in on a predicted water type attack aimed at Heatran, and does her thing from there. Surf is a great STAB move, and i use it over Hydro Pump because with Fire Blast, Focus Blast, and Sleep Powder, the team was getting a little too unpredictable, and Surf still gets the 2ko on most Rotom. Thunderbolt is used mainly against other Water types trying to come in and set up on me, yeah im looking at you Suicune. Ice Beam provides perffect coverage, rounding out the BoltBeam coverage that is so praised, and hits Grass Types hard. Last, but CERTAINLY not least, Rapid Spin is the whole reason i chose Starmie, and is the move that makes Stall Teams tremble.

    What?

    Weaknesses:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Resistances: [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Immunities:



    Conclusion:


    Well, in Conclusion this team is one of the best i have made since that fateful day when Salamence was banned, but i still feel there is something missing, that it could be a little better than it is, and thats why I came here, so ALL KNOWING SMOGONITES, rate away.

  2. MCRandom

    MCRandom

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    *reserved for threat list*
  3. Piccolo

    Piccolo

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    100
    Have a Lum Berry Lead Metagross waiting in the wings beat lead Machamp. Meteor Mash will never miss with No Guard. ;o

    Perhaps you could try that Metagross over Flygon, and change Heatran to the Scarfed set to keep a revenge killer on your team. The other team members cover the Pokemon that Dragon Pulse and HP Grass would strike fairly well, so you could try Hidden Power Electric for the final slot to beat a +1 Gyarados. This might be better since you do have 3 Choice users on your team as is.
  4. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    627
    Ooooh, this is creepy... I was team building earlier today, and made something eerily similar to this... This team looks really solid as far as I can see!! And I'm not just saying that because mine similar!! =P

    One thing, though: poison types are not immune to poison attacks, they have a resistance. They are immune to the poison status. Just a little nitpick. No worries though, since Poison attacks are seen so often (cough).
  5. MCRandom

    MCRandom

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Alright um....i dont get what your saying here, no offense it is 3 AM it could just be me...but i think you just implied Metagross gets No Guard O.o, and yeah i know i do have 3 choicers, but 1 is my lead, and I have been considering changing Scizor to iron plate or expert belt or something to get the drop on people trying to set up on it, thanks for the rate tho, please clarify what u meant w/ metagross though
  6. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    627
    What he means is that Machamps No Guard applies to both Polemon out at at the time. When Machamp with No Guard is on the field, no move misses, so you can 2HKO with Meteor Mash without worrying about it missing like it does sooo often. Hope I helped!
  7. tab

    tab ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ
    is a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2008
    Messages:
    935
    Hey. This is mostly a very good team, and there's no really stand out problems or weaknesses, just a few small changes that I think you'd be better off incorporating.

    First of all, I really have no idea why you aren't using Toxic Spikes instead of Sludge Bomb on Roserade - it fits in with your theme of wanting to match up favourably against stall teams, and your team is really going to benefit from Toxic Spikes support, with Heatran and Gengar in particular having most of their potential counters crippled by them. Sludge Bomb offers pretty terrible coverage, and there is literally no reason to not be using Toxic Spikes here. Obviously, you'd be better off using a Sash if you're TSpiking.

    After that, there's no problems apart from Starmie, which I dont think is the best choice of Pokemon here. Tying in with my suggestion of using Toxic Spikes, you're going to want a third pokemon that really makes good use of them. You could simply go with a max Speed LO Starmie here, which is necesarry for the set you're using to be really effective, but I think you'd probably be better off trying out something like an offensive Suicune with Calm Mind/Ice Beam/HP Electric/Surf, which is incredibly dangerous with TS support, and has the bulk to really make use of them. You obviously lose Rapid Spin, but I don't think that should be an issue at all, as your team already isn't hugely bothered by entry hazards, and you're going to be providing very few opportunities for your opponent to set them up.

    Assuming you go with a Suicune, one thing to consider may be Fire Blast over ThunderPunch on Flygon as a means of hitting Skarmory, as I can see Specially Defensive versions being a bit of an annoyance.

    Good luck!
  8. Conan Edogawa415

    Conan Edogawa415

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,568
    Solid team, Lead Scarf Roserade is really underrated, only question is how to you tend to get rid of lead machamp?
  9. MCRandom

    MCRandom

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Alright thanks for the rate! I have been giving T-Spikes thought because they would help Gengar deal with Blissey WAY easier, as well as Starmie, The only reason I have not is because I really do not want to change to Focus Sash Roserade, because I love the surprise ScarfRade has and it almost always starts the match out in my favor, and switching to Focus Sash pretty much makes me AutoLose to any faster taunter. But, I still might put T-Spikes over Sludge Bomb, because then I have the option to either sleep the lead or get up some hazards and save the sleep for later, which actually sounds pretty good, i will for sure test it out. As for Starmie, you seem to be underestimated Stall players a little bit. You say that there are few chances for them to get entry hazards up, but that is one of the problems with having 3 choice users, which is why Starmie is so amazing on this team, I really dont get how the DONT have time to set up with 3 choicers. Also, with only 2 immune to spikes, and 2 U-turners, this team is hampered by Spikes more than you seem to acknowledge. I like the Toxic Spikes suggestion, and may even drop T-bolt/Ice Beam for Recover and add Life orb and max speed to make Starmie a little more dangerous, I see more testing in my future. :D, thanks again for the rate.

    I hate it, I hate it so much XD. I have to sacrifice Roserade to take it out, which really sucks but meh. What i do is Leaf Storm the first turn for around 70%, if he D-Punches, cool i might be able to take it out (50/50), if he Ice Punches, Roserade dies and I go to Heatran and hit it with an apparently 100% accurate Fire Blast which takes it out. It is a pain in the ass tho i must admit.
  10. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    669
    [​IMG]-Outspeed and Sleep Powder, or Leaf Storm can OHKO non focus sash variants. All Azelfs use Focus Sash. Not a chance none of them won't be running Sash.

    [​IMG]-Ouspeed and Sleep Powder

    [​IMG]-Leaf Storm OHKOs, that way i can save the sleep for a more threatening pokemon.

    [​IMG]-Sigh...sadly i lose to Machamp 75% of the time, Leaf Storm can 2ko non Ice Punch variants, but even that is 50/50 cause of the dynamic punch confusion :.( I usually just Ice Punch Roserade for big damage, usually a KO.

    [​IMG]-Most run Lum Berry so i usually Hp Fire for the 2ko.

    [​IMG]-Take the trick and Sleep Powder or Hp Fire for the 2ko, most dont expect Scarf. Actually, I expect the Scarf becuase of Smog Article. So i just Ice Punch.

    [​IMG]-Outspeed and sleep.

    [​IMG]-Outspeed and Ohko with HpFire if it doesnt protect, if it does go into Gengar to set up. All Ninjasks run Focus Sash. It's better to just use Sleep Powder so they don't get to pass to a sweeper.

    [​IMG]-Beat it to the sleep.

    [​IMG]
    -Leaf Storm for the OHKO, or sleep powder on the predicted switch.
  11. MCRandom

    MCRandom

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
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  12. Arikado

    Arikado

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
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    Actually some Ninjasks run Leftovers and keep setting Subs and then just Pass the speed boosts to a sweeper.
  13. Piccolo

    Piccolo

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
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    100
    o_o''' No Guard makes all moves used by and on the user never miss. Every move Machamp uses will always hit. Every move Machamp's opponent uses will always hit too.

    Changing Scizor to Iron Plate really cuts into its abilities though. :/ No longer will Bullet Punch OHKO Gengar without a good amount of residual damage. D: Not worth it.
  14. MCRandom

    MCRandom

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    Jan 15, 2010
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    EDIT: Decided to go with Toxic Spikes over Sludge Bomb on Starmie, props to tab for the reccomendation
  15. NightShadow

    NightShadow

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  16. MCRandom

    MCRandom

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