1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Chansey (Skeleton) [QC Approved 2/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Bologo, Oct 3, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,841
    [​IMG]
    Chansey

    [Overview]

    • With Evolution Stone, Chansey is now quite bulky physically, and extremely bulky specially, making her a viable mixed wall.
    • Despite losing Leftovers recovery, as long as she has efficient EVs, she will always be able to hits better than Blissey on both sides.
    • With Wish now healing teammates with 50% of the user's max HP, Chansey can pass massive 352 HP Wishes several times during the match, often times fully healing the teammate.
    • With all of her upsides, she is still hindered by her base 35 SpA, forcing her to rely on Seismic Toss and Toxic for offense, meaning that she is helpless against Subbing Ghosts.
    • Just as a note, it is very difficult for WiFi players to obtain Wish legally due to it being an event move.
    [SET]
    name: Wisher
    move 1: Wish
    move 2: Protect / Softboiled
    move 3: Seismic Toss
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Evolution Stone
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

    Set Comments


    • Chansey is by far the Sturdiest Wisher in the game.
    • She passes 352 HP Wishes to her teammates, which for 0 HP EVs heals base 105s and under fully, and for 252 HP EVs, heals base 74s fully, just missing base 75s by 2 HP.
    • Seismic Toss and Toxic are there so she can do some damage against both offensive and defensive Pokemon, as her 35 base SpA isn't good enough to use her wide special attacking movepool.
    • Protect is for extra stalling power with Toxic and to give herself a guaranteed heal with Wish if she needs it.
    Additional Comments

    • This EV spread gives her better overall physical Defense than 252 HP/252 Def Relaxed Swampert.
    • Also, it gives her better overall Special Defense than 252 HP/252 Def Bold Blissey, and is nearly identical to 252 Def/252 SpD Calm Blissey in Special Defensive capabilities, while taking physical hits much, much better than Blissey.
    Teammates & Counters

    • Teammates that can take advantage of her Wishes are easily the best ones, because Chansey's Wish is like a pseudo-Healing Wish, but without the fainting.
    • Pokemon like Scizor can easily take advantage of Wish, as he's switching in several times during the match to fire off U-turns. Additionally, he can get rid of many Ghosts that Chansey hates with Pursuit.
    • Ghosts, especially ones with Taunt and Substitute can generally screw with Chansey because she can't touch them, and Taunt makes it so she can't pass Wish.
    [SET]
    name: Counter
    move 1: Counter
    move 2: Softboiled / Wish
    move 3: Seismic Toss
    move 4: Toxic
    item: Evolution Stone
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

    Set Comments

    • This set makes perfect use of her stat distribution, as little physical dents in Chansey will be bounced back, creating gigantic dents in the opponent.
    • Softboiled is the preferred recovery here because of how limited Chansey's moveslots are in this set.
    • Wish can be useful if you use it before the opponent attacks you, or if they can't 2HKO you, because you can then get 50% of your health back while bouncing back their hit at the same time.
    • Seismic Toss and Toxic are really just there so that Chansey can have something to do against special attacking pokemon, both offensive and defensive.
    Additional Comments

    • While this spread may not look ideal for a Pokemon with Counter, Chansey needs all the Defense she can get, as this set relies on taking repeated physical hits.
    • This Chansey can even bounce back a lot of strong Fighting attacks, as even a STAB Close Combat requires a massive 447 Attack, or 344 with a Life Orb to guarantee a OHKO on Chansey.
    Teammates & Counters

    • This Chansey actually prefers Stealth Rock support, because that can make the amount of damage it has to sustain for a KO a bit smaller.
    • Once again, this requires something that can get rid of Ghosts, or else people are just going to bring out the Ghosts and there's nothing that this Chansey can really do to ones that carry Substitute or Taunt.
    [Team Options]

    • Chansey fits pretty well on Stall teams, seeing as she is a staller by nature
    • To use Chansey to her full potential, she really needs a teammate that can get rid of Ghost-types, because Ghosts are some of her hardest counters
    • Pokemon that can benefit from Wish are good teammates, because as previously mentioned, Chansey's Wishes are absolutely massive, often fully healing her teammates
    • A Ghost-typed teammate is always good for taking Fighting attacks, since Chansey doesn't particularly enjoy taking them
    [Optional Changes]

    • Thunder Wave is an option over Toxic for paralysis, but just beware that Chansey will lose her main weapon against walls, especially defensive Ghosts.
    • Stealth Rock is an option over Toxic or Protect if you lack Stealth Rock on your team.
    • Heal Bell is a possibility if you want Chansey to be a Cleric for your team, and it packs good synergy with Wish, since the recipient will now have their status gone and HP back to a high level.
    • An alternate EV spread is 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD Calm, giving Chansey 642 HP/163 Def/508 SpD. This makes her 49% more Specially bulky than 252 HP/252 Def Bold Blissey, while still being about 13% more physically bulky. Compared to 252 Def/252 SpD Calm Blissey, Chansey can take physical hits 35% better, and special hits 23% better. This is a better spread for teams who need a pokemon that can take absurdly powerful hits such as Specs Palkia's Hydro Pump in the Rain, which can't 2HKO Chansey, even with Modest, but is an easy 2HKO on Blissey with the same EV spread. Trying to 2HKO this spread with even boosted Special Attacks is incredibly difficult.
    [Counters]

    • Ghosts carrying Substitute and the ability to outspeed Chansey are hard counters to her, because she literally cannot do anything back since her Special Attack is too low to actually break any of their Subsitutes in one hit.
    • Taunt really screws up the Wisher, but the Counter set can somewhat deal with it, unless of course, the Taunter is a Ghost.
    • Gengar is particularly worrisome, because he's not only immune to Toxic and Seismic Toss, but he also has Taunt, and often carries Substitute.
    • While Chansey can take physical attacks better than Swampert, she still doesn't like STAB Fighting attacks very much, though they still need to be coming off an extremely high Attack stat to guarantee a OHKO.
    • Wobbuffet can completely ruin Chansey by using Encore, because that gives a free turn of automatic setup to at least one Pokemon on your team.
    [Dream World]

    • Chansey's Dream World ability - Healing Heart, is completely useless in Single Battles, and in Multi-battles, Chansey isn't the most useful pokemon due to how much more fast-paced the battles are.
    • Also, all of Chansey's Gen 3/4 exclusive moves are incompatible with Healing Heart, and seeing as Chansey depends on these moves so much, Healing Heart is useless compared to her other abilities.
  2. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,841
    This is done. The only thing I'm not completely sure about is if Psycho Shock is bounced back by Counter or Mirror Coat, because even though Psycho Shock isn't as painful against Chansey as it is for Blissey, it would still be useful for the Counter set if Counter bounces it back.
  3. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,335
    Psycho Shock is still a special attack, so I suppose Counter won't work.
  4. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,806
    Looks fine to me. Marked as done format-wise.
  5. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,841
    I just made a slight modification to the Counter set by adding Wish as an option beside Softboiled. It's still useful, even without Protect since you can potentially heal yourself while Countering a hit, which, if used before an attack hits, can even let Chansey bounce back 2HKOs without making it difficult for her to recover health later on.

    It's not much of a change, but I figured I might as well mention it.
  6. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,412
    Why no Stealth Rock? (Sorry I don't know how tradeups work, but I thought if you taught a Pokemon SR in Gen 4 you could trade it up to Gen 5 and it would keep it) It's probably Chansey's best support move that isn't Wish.

    Counter is I think pretty overrated. On Blissey in DP it was better because a lot of attacks would do a good 175-350 HP in damage (STAB Tyranitar Pursuit, Scizor Bullet Punch, Flygon EQ / Outrage, etc), but now you need to be hit a lot harder for Counter to get the vital OHKO.
  7. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,841
    Stealth Rock is in Optional Changes.

    And I'm fairly sure that strong physical attacks can still do 175 HP of damage. Seriously, that's only about 25% of Chansey's HP. And why exactly would you want things to do 350 HP of damage to Chansey? That's just overkill, and makes Chansey's life a lot harder. The most you ever really need the opponent to do (if you're facing something like a max HP Snorlax), is about 262 HP of damage, which is something like 37-38%. Counter is fine on Chansey.
  8. elDino

    elDino Deal With It.
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,490
    Chansey is awesome with the new evolution stone but overall he's not that much better than Blissey. I also don't think she will see much use on stall as it can't hold a shed shell and you can't risk losing your main special wall so easily to shadow tag shandera. However, if shandera gets banned, then Chansey will dominate over Blissey IMO.
  9. MarioGalaxy2433g5

    MarioGalaxy2433g5

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    If Shandera is banned, then nothing changes since this is ubers, where everything that is banned goes.
  10. calze6

    calze6

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    552
    The wish set needs to be wish softboiled toxic seismic toss as protect doesn't receive extra lefties recovery so go with softboiled instead.
  11. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,841
    Just a notice that I'm not going to do the Uber Chansey analysis. I'm only doing the OU one since I've never played Ubers. Someone else needs to take the Uber one.
  12. 711Joshua

    711Joshua

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    13
    Chansey (F) @ Evolution Stone Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Seismic Toss
    - Heal Bell
    - Protect


    That's been my Chansey set for about a week now. I know this set gets walled by ghosts, but surprisingly, that situation has yet to happen.

    The only difference in my set is that I run Heal Bell. Its a life saver.

    I never gave Chansey a thought (over Blissey) until I found out that Evo-Stone still gives Chansey a 50% boost and not a 30% boost.


    I never thought about using Counter on Chansey. Considering Chansey can take physical hits a lot better than Blissey, counter could be deadly.

  13. calze6

    calze6

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    552
    Either way, softboiled is better than protect due to no lefties recovery.

    I'll do the ubers chansey if everyone is okay with that.
  14. elDino

    elDino Deal With It.
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,490
    Sorry, thought I was looking at the OU thread.
  15. ChaosNebula

    ChaosNebula

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2010
    Messages:
    207
    I have just realized that even with the evo stone boost, most pokes hurt Chansey badly when hit by a physcial attack.

    I suggest using a pokemon with screens so Chansey's load is lifted off a bit

    Also does Chansey know Mirror coat? If so a set could be made for that
  16. Ian15

    Ian15

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    It does not get Mirror Coat and Chansey as such high SpD that the set would not work.
  17. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 12 Championis a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,298
    I run 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD to get the most out of both defenses with Evolution Stone. You should also consider slashing Protect with Softboiled because it gives you twice as many turns of recovery and can accomplish a similar objective to Protect.
  18. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,841
    I'll keep the 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD spread in Optional Changes. That spread is much better in Ubers where stuff like Specs Kyogre lies and physical attacking is less common. But in OU, I find that there's a lot more physical attackers, and being able to weather their hits comes in pretty handy. I haven't really found a situation where the extra Special Defense is needed in OU, unless you're up against something like Modest Flash Fire SpecsTran Fire Blast in the Sun.

    I'll slash Softboiled with Protect, though I still think Protect is more useful. It's actually possible to beat stuff like Blaziken or Kojondo with it in a pinch (although it does require a lot prediction). Also, with Protect, you can't be critted while you're trying to heal. Scouting Choice users is always handy as well. You're also not screwed if a Fighting pokemon comes in while you use Wish, since you can Protect and get 50% back, and then get out of there. With Softboiled, you can't do that since Chansey is too slow to pull off Softboiled against any Fighter with average Speed.

    However, Softboiled giving 16 more PP of healing is definitely useful and helps him with more direct ToxiStalling. It's also nice if you just used Wish the turn before because Softboiled will heal, and then Wish will heal, fully healing Chansey.
  19. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 12 Championis a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,298
    Looks good to me.

    Approved (1/2)
  20. locopoke

    locopoke indulges in unsavory behavior
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,805
    I think Thunder Wave should be slashed with Toxic on both of the sets.
  21. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,136
    Agreed for the second set at least. I always find Toxic better for Chansey/Blissey, but a mention in the first should be at least added.
  22. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,841
    I don't know about Thunder Wave, since it's already in Optional Changes. Is it really worth losing your best offense against walls and your only hope of hurting Ghosts? It seems to me like it should be in Additional Comments at best to be honest. If anyone has any other input on this issue though, I'll still consider it for a slash.
  23. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 12 Championis a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    3,298
    I think it's good in Optional Changes. Blissey can pull it off better because it can utilize its higher Special Attack to have coverage against Ghosts. It can't be too good in combination with Counter since you want them to hit if you are using it. If they end up fully paralyzed and see you used Counter, they will switch out or not use a physical attack. Toxic is the superior option for both. The only time I can imagine Thunder Wave would be better is if your team needs the support.
  24. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,136
    Yeah, true that it's no good if they see Counter on a paralysis. Forget the slash, but a mention on how opponents are usually inclined to attack when paralyzed (especially with their offensive Pokemon).
  25. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,533
    Why isn't there a cleric set? With Sleep's new mechanics, I'd imagine the set would be quite useful for teams without a Sleep absorber. And with Sleep Talk being less readily available, there are more teams without a Sleep absorber. SR could also be mentioned in AC over Aromatherapy, though if so, the set should be called 'Support.'

    Palkia is banned from OU, most likely forever.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)