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Chaos Mafia Postgame

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by Earthworm, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. Earthworm

    Earthworm
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 6 Champion

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    Chaos Mafia

    Welcome to the postgame for Chaos Mafia, the small mafia game hosted by Earthworm and Gmax. In this thread we will discuss the game in depth. The postgame will be separated into five parts, and they are as follows:

    [jump=design]I) Design[/jump]
    [jump=roles]II) Roles[/jump]
    [jump=game]III) The Game[/jump]
    [jump=awards]IV) Awards[/jump]
    [jump=conclusion]V) Conclusion[/jump]

    I hope you enjoy reading it!

    [a]design[/a]Design

    The idea of hosting a chaotic mafia first occurred to me when I was discussing what possible broken roles would be with Gmax. We originally discussed the idea of a game with multiple alliance changers (‘recruiters’ or ‘converters’). Before long, we discovered that this idea might not actually be bad, as long as everyone in it was aware that crazy stuff was going to happen (i.e. throwing it into a regular game would have awful results). At this point, we decided that we were going to construct a game where people knew that they were going to be in for a chaotic game, and that unlike previous games they shouldn’t expect things to be relatively the same as other games.

    Together, we came up with many powerful standard and non-standard role ideas, such as a wolf that doesn’t appear on the player list, a kidnapper with yes/no questions, and a combination single-target thief + inspector. By the time we finished creating roles, we had a potentially very chaotic game, and we made many modifications and added ways for roles to be increasingly confusing and chaotic, such as alliance checkers that always returned the incorrect result, items that made votes count for decimal amounts, and the potential for misleading items and items that made votes count negative. Almost no aspect of the game could be fully trusted to remain the same, with the potential for people to swap roles, change win conditions, and prematurely end days with various ways to kill.

    We started by figuring out the approximate numbers of the teams, and we came up with the neutrals early on, as well as the idea to include roles from past games. We ended up using the numbers 12 villagers, 4 on each mafia and 4 neutrals (including Samara). We knew pretty much for certain that Samara was never going to vote until very late (if at all), and we also knew that Homer probably wasn’t going to be voting often early, so this gave the village the numbers advantage they needed to win the lynch in the event of a mafia alliance. After this, we worked out what the mafias would have on their teams, and we decided on mafia1 having a converter + hooker, and mafia2 having a converter + bodyguard. We spent long time thinking about possible roles that the Joker could have, and we ended up giving him something that, in hindsight, was rather weak. He also had control over the kill, so if there was a conflict for some reason, he would be able to make the decision himself. We also gave this to Agent Smith on the other team, who also had redirection powers. The other two roles we ended up giving the Insane were the simultaneous information and item gaining role (Denethor) and the glass cannon role (Cthun).

    The Sophisticated were given a very strong role in the resurrector, who also had priority modification ability with unlimited uses. The priority modification ability was a last minute addition, since we thought it wouldn’t be a good idea to put a role in that can’t do anything until someone on his team dies; I’m not sure if it was the best possible addition but it made sense as Cadmus Peverell is a magician! Q was added as well, and I thought his role was really good. He was originally able to create the same item over and over, but Gmax decided to restrict it to one of each item, which was most likely a good idea.

    Most of the village was created last. Krakatoa (mass-martyr), Lelouch (converter), and Citizen of Geesthacht were the first to be decided upon. We then progressed to the idea of having lots of people who all thought they were inspectors, but some were given wrong or no results (Nicholas Angel, Chief Wiggum), and the others all had bizarre twists to them as well (Taz). Lastly, The Moon and Skullkid from Zelda Mafia were added, as well as an unlimited rogue from Fire Emblem Mafia, the bodyguard with a posting restriction from Viva la Mafia (screw you Toothache), the miller, and a new role which used an alias in a non-anonymous mafia that could become a limited vigilante.

    We changed a couple of things, like adding Yes / No questions to Skullkid’s role to make him able to do something extra, and then we finalised the game by distributing the necessary items, as well as one very gimmicky item without a name that we put on the miller. The game was set to be very interesting, and even before it started I knew things were going to be pretty chaotic and was fully expecting a side – though I had no idea which – to take over the game from (I estimated) around Day 2. At this point, we wrote all the Role PMs. See the design sheet in the spreadsheet to see the basic outline of the design.

    [a]roles[/a]Roles

    The roles in this game were obviously meant to cause chaos, whether that meant from being perceived as overpowered or just messing with people’s minds. I think we achieved this, as everything was very confusing for most players up until near the end of the game. Here are the roles, categorised into their teams.

    The Assortment of Random Characters

    This was the village’s most powerful weapon against the other sides. It should be noted that I originally had planned to keep item moving the same as in my previous game, where you could only pass them around at night. This would have the restriction I had planned, a three night delay between recruits. We forgot about this and just used the day or night passing system which led to this role being more powerful than intended. It should also be noted that I had forgotten that we were going to ban recruiters from recruiting other recruiters when I wrote these role PMs, so they ended up rather ambiguous as to whether they could or not… I decided to keep it a secret anyway. The idea behind this role was to give the village a way to either get neutrals, mafia, or previously recruited villagers on their side. This was the only ‘unlimited’ recruiter, but it was heavily prone to both thieves and death, considering it would need to presumably ‘come out’ to come into possession of the Mask, and then it would probably get stolen from or killed since roles that need items are usually important. Side-changing is definitely something very chaotic that can destroy or at least sway a game very heavily into one side’s advantage.

    This was the first role from a previous game that we decided to use. Day killers are pretty chaotic, and this role was quite powerful despite how it looks to be. The candle gained an additional property when lit; it allowed the holder to see anyone that targeted them at night and in return tells the people that targeted the Citizen that they were holding a lit candle. Posting I GOT A LIGHT would obviously give away that this was a Citizen of Geesthacht unless it was perceived as a joke, and I suppose it would be possible for a bunch of other people to do it as well to confuse enemies. Only this role could use the BLOW UP USER ability, but anyone could light the candle. Once blown up, the Citizen of Geesthacht would also immediately end the day. The kill was entirely unblockable.

    Chief Wiggum thought he was the inspector, but come on, how can Chief Wiggum possibly find out anything about anyone?

    Chief Wiggum: [sees Fat Tony and his mobsters dragging a body wrapped in a sheet to the lake] Uh sorry, sorry, no dumping in the lake!
    Fat Tony: Fine, I will put my *yard trimmings* in a car compactor.
    [he and the mobsters walk off with the body]
    Lou: Uh, Chief, I think there was a dead body in there.
    Chief Wiggum: I thought that too, until he said yard trimmings. You gotta learn to listen, Lou.


    He was actually the village thief; he confiscated the user’s “toys”. I assumed the owner of the role would work this out after he got no results but an item or two after a couple of nights. This role contributed to what I thought would be chaotic; the number of users that would think that they are the village inspector was set to be large, and no-one was a straightforward inspector.

    We brought back Oddjob from Viva la Mafia because of Toothache’s retarded posting gimmick, which we decided to enforce for this game. Basically this was the village bodyguard. There’s nothing much to say that isn’t already said in the role PM; he could protect anyone including himself, he could only post in images in the main thread (no text), and he became permanently silenced if he broke this once. He could lynch through writing text in the images.

    Taz was pretty close to a real inspector, except his role was luck based in a way. This role could be used fairly well to clean villagers, but it was risky to use to find mafia. There were a number of ways that this could be used efficiently to actually get results on people, such as repeatedly using the same “useless villager” to take a 50/50 shot of getting a result on someone new. I thought this role was pretty interesting and definitely chaotic, and I looked forward to seeing how it worked out!

    This role was an insane alliance checker (his results would always come up the reverse of what they should, and if he inspected a villager it would randomly select a mafia side to turn up as) allied with the village. We decided to give him the Mask so that he could check Lelouch and find out he is actually on the mafia! This would presumably cause chaos and give the village even more troubles. However, this would be a useful role if the owner of the role figured it out fast enough, which would either take a mislynch or a wrong death, as long as they questioned their sanity and not the validity of the death PM.

    Krakatoa was a major role on the village, and was intended to be something to balance it out against all the major threats on the opposing teams. It was basically a role that caused every single role in the game to target Krakatoa instead of whoever they were targeting, even if their role specified more than one target. Obviously such a powerful role could only be used once in the game. The end result of this, if timed right, would basically give the village two lynches in a row. However, there was also a good chance that this role would end up being recruited by one of the mafias or by Dracula, which was a rather chaotic possibility! The Ear Muffs only had one purpose, and that was to give a single player the ability to complete their ability successfully. If recruited by Dracula, they would have an additional impact by being important to the new win condition, though.

    The Moon was basically a Kraken role which was holding an item it wasn’t holding in Zelda Mafia, but other than that it was the same. We decided that this role would be a good role to have on the village in such a chaotic game. The Fork gave an extra .1 votes, or with another utensil the combination would add to .5 (rather than .2), or with all three, the total extra votes would be 1. The role is pretty straightforward and is explained in detail in the role PM.

    Skullkid was the closest the village had to a proper inspector, and he could only receive Yes or No answers to whatever he asked. However, the questions were completely unrestricted. Additionally, Skullkid was the one capable of sending people to the Moon role (one at a time). This role was also taken from Zelda Mafia and then given an extra ability in exchange for the list of the Wise (since the Wise weren’t in this game). This role was (or at least should have been) a key role to the village’s success.

    Jason Bourne was a Miller type role (one that always comes up bad on inspection but is actually good). Not only this, but his role claim should have been incredibly convenient to what he did because of his negative vote. I also tried to confuse him by adding an item with no name or description, which gave the holder an extra .1 votes. It had no other function in the game but to break tied votes. When inspected by a full role PM inspector like Taz or Denethor, a result where the actual details regarding the side in the flavour were modified would appear, but the negative vote part would remain. This character specifically fit the role because I think he could easily be Sophisticated, Insane, or (obviously) a random character. Millers are chaotic, and I liked this addition to the game.

    I’m not sure why this PM cuts off at revived, I probably forgot to write the rest of that line. The Spoon was another utensil that does the same thing as the Fork, and the rogue ability could be used as many times as Hannibal died. If he was lucky, he might have been able to rise twice, which would be pretty chaotic I think! This was taken from Fire Emblem Mafia pretty much directly.

    This role was an anonymous alias in a non-anonymous game. It also had the capability of becoming a vigilante, which was then passed on in the form of the Frozen Bag of Food. If that bag was opened with two utensils, it would disappear and the current holder would be granted a one-time night kill and a one-time day kill, which would immediately end the day it was used on. The rest of the role was pretty straightforward. It was up to the owner of the role to decide whether they revealed who they were or kept it a secret.

    And that does it for the Assortment of Random Characters’ original line-up!

    The Sophisticated

    This role was a relatively unknown Harry Potter character with the ability to resurrect once fully and once for a single day and a single night. He wasn’t aware of the capabilities of his resurrection, but it would be hinted to him through the PMs I sent him after he used his ability. If he attempted a third resurrection, he would kill himself. The alternative ability was a priority modifier ability which could basically be used to make the team’s recruits go last or to make their kills unblockable, both of which are very valid and useful abilities in this game and aptly suited to the theme in my opinion!

    The Hypnotoad was a recruiter that had the second highest priority, below the Insane recruiter (lower priority is always better). As mentioned when I was commenting on Lelouch, recruiters cause a lot of disruption in a game if used well. They could very easily greatly contribute to the chaos factor in Chaos Mafia. The restriction placed was much greater than on the Insane’s, so I think that the Insane’s recruiter role was much stronger. Also, the Hypnotoad was unable to protect itself.

    This role was from You-choose-it Mafia (my role in fact) and it basically did exactly the same thing, except it could redirect anything to anything (including kills). Redirectors are pretty strong, and definitely can cause chaos if used in combination with the right information. This role also had the option of choosing who to kill for the team above the others on the team (if Agent Smith sent the nightly kill in and someone else did as well, then this one would take priority). Unlimited, unrestricted redirectors are pretty strong, and this role was no exception!

    The powered up thief and item creator on the Sophisticated was Q. He could create one of each of the items listed, and he was allowed to write ambiguous item descriptions as long as they didn’t blatantly lie. Basically, he could say ‘This item may kill every user in the game once used.’ if he wanted, he just had to maintain uncertainty. I think this role had a lot of potential, and it definitely fit the Sophisticated side! Q was probably one of my favourite roles in the game.

    Overall, the Sophisticated had a recruiter + BG, a resurrector + priority modifier, a redirector, and an item creator + thief, which is a pretty strong line-up of roles! I think they were reasonably well balanced with the Insane and the ARC, but some say that this side was far stronger than the others. Next up is..:

    The Insane

    Two instant recruits and role prevention were the abilities given to the most powerful Pokémon, Mewtwo. Mewtwo was meant to be one of the most powerful roles in the game, having two very strong abilities which could probably have won him the game as a neutral with no team (to begin with). In my opinion, this was definitely the strongest recruiter, which helped make up for his team’s somewhat lacklustre other roles.

    The Joker was probably underpowered to be honest. His role definitely had a strong capability to create chaos in the game, and the Knife gave him an extra .1 votes, but I think that I should have given The Joker an additional ability to balance the teams better. Nevertheless, the bring about chaos ability was rather strong and very useful if it was used correctly.

    Cthun is a character from a Stephen King book (the story from which it was taken from was also made into an animated thing but the book is better) that is basically from another terrible world. The ability given to Cthun is themed by the story in the book, and it basically sets up Cthun to escape into the real world with all of its insane powers. The powers Cthun would gain from the ability going off were three one use abilities: permanent hooker, permanent silencer, and permanent control of another player’s night role. In addition, the role provided a transferable hooker and a one time kill. Once Cthun died, the curse wore off, though. I thought this role was decent, but not amazing until the ability got set off, at which point it would be incredibly strong.

    Denethor was a plain thief + inspector role that used both with a single target on the same night. I thought this was a pretty strong role despite it being plain, and I expected it to be very valuable to the Insane. With this role in addition to the other three; overall the Insane had a lot of useful abilities and some really powerful weapons.

    The Neutrals

    Dracula was a BPV until he recruited to Neutral descendant (the descendant part was permanent, but the win condition part wasn’t, i.e. if re-recruited, a descendant would be a descendant that wins with whichever side they were recruited to). Each player that could have their side changed (basically, not any recruiter) had a custom win condition which can all be viewed in the spreadsheet. Dracula didn’t need to be alive to be able to win, but he would be able to support his descendant with his vote. He just needed to continue the vampire race on by biting people and having them win. Converting to neutral is a pretty chaotic ability I think, with a great potential to ‘ruin’ a game.

    Sylar from Mafia mafia, complete with non-existent word and misspellings from the original. In a mafia game with such ridiculously powerful abilities, Sylar had the capability to become a monster if he played well enough. If he gained recruiter, he would change people’s win conditions to ‘You win if you survive.’ There was no ability that Sylar couldn’t gain except Dracula’s BPV because he obviously couldn’t kill through it. This role had the tools needed to be completely and utterly chaotic and extremely powerful, and in addition it was a neutral wolf role.

    The other Simpsons weren’t in the game. This role is basically taken directly from Simpsons Mafia, like Sylar from Mafia mafia, with exactly the same role PM. The roles he would obtain cycled from Mayor Vote to Persuade to Kill to Mayor Vote etc in that order. Watching TV was the highest priority ability in the game (Krakatoa wouldn’t affect it even if it was higher, anyway) meaning Homer was indeed immune to everything, with one exception: Samara would appear on TV if she targeted Homer with her ability. The inability to hold items was a kind of blessing in this game where there was the chance for multiple negative vote items to be created, which meant that if Homer lasted until the end, there was a high likelihood of him winning. I still think this is a very fun role for a half-wolf neutral, and I enjoyed being able to put it into this game, despite it maybe being not quite as chaotic as other roles.

    This was most likely the most controversial role in the game, a wolf that doesn’t appear on the player list. The only ways the existence of this player could be detected were the flavour from the kills (it actually said ‘it was imperfectluck that you heard’ in the PMs as you’ll see later), and the Lit Candle from the Citizen of Geesthacht role. The win condition was designed so that they couldn’t just sit back and wait until it was them versus two other people. Everyone I showed this role to before the game started definitely thought this role would win. The main difficulty of this role was evading suspicion while killing and managing being in the final few if it managed to get that far. This was definitely a chaotic role in that it was something so unheard of, and also because of what it would do to people that knew they were going to die.

    Well that’s it for the roles, now I will get on to describing how the actual game played out.

    [a]game[/a]The Game

    So you’ve probably seen all of the roles by now (whether you read about them in this thread or saw them in the actual game) and you’ve come to this section wondering how they interacted and/or what you missed out on relating to night actions and what could have happened, etc. I’m going to comment on each Night and Day individually, making many references to the aforementioned spreadsheet.

    Role Distribution

    Gmax and I decided which roles would go to which players, so in general, the stronger roles were given to the more experienced players. We gave blue_light Sylar because of his post in the signups topic and decided on the stronger roles first (Hipmonlee became Lelouch, imperfectluck became Samara, Lesm46 became Homer Simpson, Fishin became The Hypnotoad, and LightWolf became Mewtwo) before deciding on the rest, which were mostly a random distribution. I think it worked out well, though maybe a random distribution would have been more fun, who knows?!? We used the Players sheet on the spreadsheet to distribute the roles, which is why it looks fairly bland. The final distribution was:

    Code:
    Afroninja22		The Moon
    AlphaBravo		Citizen of Geesthacht
    Altair			Hannibal Smith
    GoldenKnight14		Bryan
    HD			Chief Wiggum
    Hipmonlee		Lelouch
    Jimbo			Skullkid
    Kannon			Krakatoa
    macle			Jason Bourne
    Mr.378			Oddjob
    Umbreon Dan		Nicholas Angel
    billymills		Taz
    Accent			Cthun
    Exarius			Denethor
    LightWolf		Mewtwo
    porygon3		The Joker
    blue_light		Sylar
    ExplorerAce		Dracula
    imperfectluck		Samara
    Lesm46			Homer
    asim			Q
    Fishin			The Hypnotoad
    dak			Agent Smith
    moot			Cadmus Peverell
    This is after substitutes were made and a role swap occurred, originally matty was Skullkid, EA was CN, and GTS was Agent Smith, and Mr.378 and Umbreon Dan had each other’s roles.

    Night 0

    This night was supposed to have kills, and was only called Night 0 because I don’t like going from Night 1 to Day 1 rather than the reverse (I find it confusing). However, as you can see on the spreadsheet, Kannon used his one-timer, which essentially saved macle, crabnebula / EA and blue_light from being killed, porygon3 from becoming Sophisticated, and billymills from becoming Insane. While these were some interesting results, I think it would have been better for Kannon to use his role at a later, more strategic point in the game.

    The village seemed fairly disorganised and inactive, with no-one stepping up to be an immediate leader to begin with. This changed towards the end of the night, where Kannon decided it would be wise to step up, and that he would prove his power on the first night. While his intentions were good, I don’t think this turned out as he thought it would. However, it had some very interesting results which put the village in a great position anyway. I’ll detail it more in the Day 1 section.

    The Insane quickly assembled and were organised by LightWolf who created a channel for the team. LightWolf decided he didn’t want to take any risks (pertaining to dying without getting his recruit off). He hid his second recruit from his team, in case one of them was recruited or some other disaster happened. This was probably a good idea in this game, as the only person each person could really fully trust was themselves. LightWolf helped his team (Exarius, Accent, and porygon3) come up with some pretty good false claims.

    Fishin organised the Sophisticated. He came up with some kind of false claim (Palkia) and the rest of his team (moot and GTS) was fairly idle, except for asim. I don’t really know if asim was coordinating with his team but I’m sure he can fill us in. Fishin seemed to be doing a pretty good job.

    Night 0 PMs (open)
    To Kannon:

    To moot:

    To GTS:

    To Umbreon Dan:

    To Altair:

    To Exarius:

    To HD:

    To LightWolf:

    To Fishin:

    To crabnebula:

    To asim:

    To imperfectluck:

    To Accent:



    The item asim created was the one time hooker item, and that is all it did, despite the misleading other information.

    Day 1

    On Day 1, a lot of very crazy and chaotic stuff happened. LightWolf, under the impression that Kannon was now on his side (he asked me and I said ‘you recruited him’ because Kannon was recruited and LightWolf couldn’t know how many times), abandoned his no-risks policy and allowed Kannon into his channel, essentially revealing his entire team to the now neutral Kannon. Kannon decided to give the village his findings, and distributed them amongst a large number of the players. This put the Insane in a terrible position.

    Additionally, Fishin decided to contact Kannon but did not give away his teammates, which was a wiser move in this case. However, this put Fishin into the open as mafia too, and Fishin was very important to his team. The village couldn’t know whether Kannon was lying or not, and for one reason or another, despite Hipmonlee’s attempt to stop the lynch, Kannon ended up getting lynched.

    At this point, imperfectluck had gathered a small amount of information and was basically sitting back, as his role would be expected to. Lesm46 had created a false claim based around the presence of roles from previous games. blue_light had gathered some information from Kannon and seemed to be in a good position. Kannon’s lynching meant that imperfectluck did not get his first kill, and therefore needed three more to fulfil his win condition. And with that, Night 1 began.

    Day 1 PMs (open)
    To imperfectluck:

    To LightWolf:

    To Accent:

    To Lesm46:



    Night 1

    Night 1 was not quite as eventful as Night 0 was, but it involved a couple of people that might have had a great effect idling, and a very important move by Jimbo, who subbed in for the inactive matty at this point. Jimbo used his question asking capability to discover that Hipmonlee is aligned with the village. Accent got his ability off, but at the same time, he was delay-killed by imperfectluck. porygon3 took a huge unnecessary risk and included himself among his ability’s targets, resulting in him killing himself and swapping Umbreon Dan’s and Mr.378’s roles (Nicholas Angel and Oddjob).

    Fishin decided to speed up his kill’s priority and killed blue_light, which saved billymills, who was converted by LightWolf, all on the same night. That was a pretty interesting coincidence! Exarius targeted Lesm46 with his ability, but Lesm46 was watching TV so Exarius was left to ponder why his ability failed. Additionally, Exarius killed HD (the village thief who thought he was an inspector). Umbreon Dan received a PM telling him that AlphaBravo is Sophisticated due to him being an insane cop. billymills’ ability gives Hipmonlee’s role PM to Fishin, giving Fishin a chance to negotiate recruits with him (unbeknownst to both, they couldn’t recruit one another).

    So, this was both a good and bad night for the Insane. Mainly a bad night. They lost porygon3 to what I think was pretty bad planning, Accent to bad luck, and gained billymills, a mediocre village role. The Sophisticated came out of this night without direct losses, but perhaps killing a villager would have helped their cause more. The village came out of this night best off, with another mafia dead and an important cleaning of Hipmonlee by Jimbo. All in all, this was a very interesting and chaotic night!

    Night 1 PMs (open)
    To Umbreon Dan:

    To Mr.378:

    To Exarius:

    To billymills:

    To Fishin:

    To Jimbo:

    To asim:

    This item was a plain negative vote item, but the holder didn’t know it.

    To Accent:



    Day 2

    Day 2 started off with Jimbo talking to Hipmonlee and agreeing on a LightWolf lynch. Jimbo made an important post stating his trust of Hipmonlee, which he obtained from cleaning him with his ability. The only other notable event was that Mr.378 lost his ability to lynch due to forgetting about his new posting restriction. Umbreon Dan was confused over whether he still had his old posting restriction, too. LightWolf was lynched, and Accent died due to imperfectluck, leaving the Insane with just Exarius and billymills remaining.

    Some items were transferred by various means, as you can see here.

    Day 2 PMs (open)
    To Jimbo:

    To Lesm46:

    To imperfectluck:



    Also at this point, ExplorerAce subbed in over the inactive crabnebula. He planned to claim Hedwig the Mayor from Bird Mafia.

    Night 2

    Night 2 was significantly less exciting than the previous nights, because most roles didn’t end up doing anything useful. I made a pretty bad error this night, but I don’t think anyone cared about it too much. Fishin wanted to kill Umbreon Dan, not robots, but informed me his target was a random one anyway so it didn’t really matter. I’m very sorry about this, though! ExplorerAce made a very good choice in making Lesm46 a descendant, and he also managed to hit him on a night where Lesm46 was actually using one of his abilities he obtained from watching TV. This led to him later winning the game, despite dying. asim managed to give his negative vote item to Hipmonlee without Hipmonlee suspecting anything, and created another negative vote item with a misleading description. Jimbo and robots both died, the item with no name was stolen by Exarius (it gave + 0.1 votes), and imperfectluck’s kill on robots failed due to Fishin getting to him first.

    The most important thing that happened on this night was Umbreon Dan’s inspection on Hipmonlee giving a Sophisticated result. This could have been a game changing inspection, because it was a reverse inspection due to Umbreon Dan being an insane cop (always gets the wrong result). This village came out of this night much worse off.

    Night 2 PMs (open)
    To macle:

    To Exarius:

    To Lesm46:

    To GTS:

    To Umbreon Dan:

    To AlphaBravo:

    To asim:

    To Hipmonlee:

    To Fishin:



    Day 3

    Day 3 was interesting to watch from my perspective. It involved Altair, Hipmonlee, and AlphaBravo discussing how they should win the votes from thereon. They theorised the worst and best possible scenarios, which weren’t really too accurate because of the amount of unknown information, but it gave everyone a perspective of the game. Initially, it looked like the village strategy would be to eliminate all of the Insane, but this would not have worked due to billymills’ conversion. However, after the discussion, it became evident that it would be more helpful to start chipping away at the Insane, who were suspected to be at a total of 5 members (they were only at 4). Due to macle’s and Hipmonlee’s negative votes, the vote ended with a surprisingly low 1.3 votes for Fishin vs 1 for asim. However, both of the possible targets were Sophisticated aligned, so it would have taken both asim and Fishin exposing themselves to win the lynch. Additionally, the Sophisticated could not have been aware that macle was a negative voter unless they were told by him or Exarius. Hipmonlee gave his Toothpick to Afroninja22.

    So, the best or second best role on the Sophisticated went down (perhaps moot was a stronger role) without Fishin telling his faction anything he knew – he had been planning on allowing Hipmonlee to recruit him, but Hipmonlee never came into contact with the mask while Fishin was alive, due to Umbreon Dan believing him to be Sophisticated.

    Day 3 PMs (open)
    To AlphaBravo:

    He received this after posting I GOT A LIGHT in the thread.

    To Hipmonlee:

    To Afroninja22:

    To Lesm46:



    Night 3

    Night 3 was an interesting night, and one nearing the game’s conclusion. The deaths on this night were very important, and could easily have changed a lot of things about the game. Once again, a lot of roles had no effect on the game at all, including moot’s, GTS’, asim’s Hooker item being used (it might have mattered if it had done anything), Mr.378’s, and Altair’s. The kills were, as usual, very important, taking out the macle the ARC miller, Mr.378 the ARC bodyguard, and asim the Sophisticated item creator. Exarius inspected Hipmonlee, which did not turn out to be very useful. I think asim had organised an item exchange with AlphaBravo too, but this failed to occur due to asim being killed. imperfectluck used his delayed kill on Afroninja22, which meant that he gained all of the utensils that were being stored on Afroninja22’s surface. If he ever obtained the Frozen Bag of Food, he would almost definitely have won, but as it was on Hipmonlee who imperfectluck had talked to, it was unlikely he would obtain it because he wouldn’t risk targeting Hipmonlee and didn’t know that he was holding it.

    After Night 3, the Sophisticated had two members remaining: GTS and moot. Both of these players were relatively inactive, and not paying a lot of attention to the game. The Insane was left with Exarius and billymills. Three neutrals were still alive and well: imperfectluck, Lesm46, and ExplorerAce. The village was made up of Afroninja22 (the Moon, now useless, and due to die at the end of Day 4), AlphaBravo, Altair, Hipmonlee, and Umbreon Dan. The outcome looked to be dependent on the actions of the neutrals, two of which had to win alone. However, the village converter, Hipmonlee, was still alive – just without his mask.

    Night 3 PMs (open)
    To AlphaBravo:

    To Afroninja22:

    To Umbreon Dan:

    To Altair:

    To Exarius:

    To billymills:



    Day 4

    This day was another pretty straightforward day. The village jumped on the Exarius lynching bandwagon immediately and Exarius quickly reached a high number of votes. Exarius tried to blow up AlphaBravo, but unfortunately for Exarius, AlphaBravo was the only player equipped with dynamite in this game. Since GTS had continued to idle for a very long time, dak substituted in for him at this stage.

    Exarius and Afroninja22 both went down due to being lynched and imperfectluck’s kill. The Fork, Spoon and Toothpick all went to imperfectluck, who now had a vote that would count for negative 1.5 votes if used as you can see on the spreadsheet in the Vote Counts sheet. This left the Insane with 1, Sophisticated with 2, and ARC with 4, with three neutrals still living.

    Day 4 PMs (open)
    To AlphaBravo:

    To imperfectluck:

    To Lesm46:



    Night 4

    Altair was confused by Hipmonlee’s role swapping tactics after Afroninja22’s death, and started the night by stating that Hipmonlee is a confirmed mole. Hipmonlee didn’t want to draw any attention to himself or risk his role being found out by any of the mafia, so he stated that dak is Sophisticated after dak admitted it in a conversation between the two of them.

    By this point, Hipmonlee had talked to billymills and received a confession about being converted. Hipmonlee instructed billymills to kill EA, and promised conversion back to ARC at a later date, unless the Mask didn’t really exist (which Hipmonlee considered a possibility). However, dak thwarted this plan and effectively sealed the game (unless imperfectluck managed to win) by redirecting billymills’ kill to himself and killing ExplorerAce, who was a relatively harmless neutral by this stage.

    imperfectluck chose Altair as his kill target and third kill. Assuming Altair died by his hands, this kill would fulfil the first part of his win condition (the other being to be the last alive). AlphaBravo gave the (nameless item) to Hipmonlee, which made Hipmonlee worry that it would cause his vote to count negatively.

    This night put things back into the village’s hands, as it meant the permanent end of Insane kills and one less neutral to worry about. That is, as long as they could keep Lesm46 on their side and distinguish themselves from their enemies, of course.

    Night 4 PMs (open)
    To AlphaBravo:

    To Hipmonlee:

    To Altair:



    Day 5

    Day 5 was the final showdown day, where it would come down to whether or not Umbreon Dan believed his inspection results. Hipmonlee posted his role PM to begin the day, recognising that if everything went right on this day, then the village basically had the game. Umbreon Dan did have evidence suggesting that he was an insane cop, but he originally assumed that the Mixed-Up Rubik’s Cube had changed the Role PM billymills had upon his death, which seemed like a viable explanation given my comment after his death. Umbreon Dan decided that he believed Hipmonlee to be deceiving them all, and made a lynch attempt on him to begin with.

    moot was the next to vote, and he too voted to lynch Hipmonlee. AlphaBravo trusted Hipmonlee, and voted Hipmonlee as a result due to holding the Mixed-Up Rubik’s Cube. dak voted for Hipmonlee too, as did Altair. However, Hipmonlee then talked to moot and Altair and convinced them to change their votes to dak. moot changed his vote because Hipmonlee explained the situation and offered to recruit him to ARC. Hipmonlee convinced Altair by pasting his recent logs with moot, Umbreon Dan, and dak, as well as some old logs with billymills explaining why Umbreon Dan was voting for him.

    Lesm46, who was unable to vote on this day due to watching TV, bluffed that he was simply being a spectator (though he might not have voted even if his vote counted). dak then talked to moot and convinced him to change his vote back yet again, possibly explaining that with their roles combined, they could revive and kill enough villagers to win the game. However, Hipmonlee finally managed to convince Umbreon Dan to vote for dak, which sealed the fate of the Sophisticated and saved AlphaBravo from having to blow up on dak.

    Umbreon Dan finally caved in and gave the Mask to Hipmonlee, meaning that the village could finally begin to convert the survivors.

    Additionally, Altair had reported to Hipmonlee about imperfectluck’s name appearing in the PM he received after Night 4, unlike any of imperfectluck’s other victims. Hipmonlee began to discuss with Lesm46 where the day kills might be coming from, now that all unknown roles were dead. Since moot had begun to co-operate with the ARC too, there were no unknown roles remaining – Umbreon Dan was the insane cop, Hipmonlee was the converter, AlphaBravo was the dynamite guy, moot was the last Sophisticated, and Lesm46 was the wolf. Thanks to Altair, I received messages on IRC from Hipmonlee:

    Code:
     [16:14] <Hipmonlee> hey
    [16:14] <Earthworm> hi
    [16:14] <Hipmonlee> is it possible there are users not listed in the userlist
    [16:14] <Hipmonlee> or
    [16:14] <Hipmonlee> players not listed in the player list
    [16:14] <Earthworm> i can neither confirm nor deny this
    [16:14] <Hipmonlee> thats an interesting response isnt it
    [16:15] <Hipmonlee> cause normally I would expect it to be "lol no"
    With this, Chaos Mafia entered Night 5.

    Day 5 PMs (open)
    To Hipmonlee:

    To Lesm46:



    Night 5

    imperfectluck was in trouble, now that his secret had been practically uncovered. He realised in a conversation with me that it may be a smart idea to idle his kill from now on, avoiding any unnecessary additional evidence. However, it was too late, and multiple attempts were made to uncover the potential presence of imperfectluck, including Lesm46 attempting to persuade imperfectluck to vote himself on Day 6, but more importantly, moot targeting him as the Sophisticated night kill. moot also chose to resurrect Jimbo to prove that he had no intentions of fighting ARC any longer.

    Hipmonlee equipped the mask, and the village and the rest of the game were exposed and ready to become ARC members to end the game.

    Night 5 PMs (open)
    To moot:

    To moot:

    To Umbreon Dan:

    To Jimbo:



    Day 6 / End Game

    At the beginning of this game, I talked to Lesm46 and moot and asked if it was their intention to wait until Hipmonlee converted them, and in addition asked if Hipmonlee planned to. Hipmonlee posted that they were going to keep No Lynching until everyone still alive was converted to ARC, so the end of the game arrived!

    Congratulations to the Assortment of Random Characters, as well as those who were converted to ARC and ExplorerAce for picking out Lesm46 to be his descendant. It was definitely a fun game while it lasted for me, and I hope everyone else had as much or more fun!

    [a]awards[/a]Awards

    Most Chaotic Player – Kannon. Kannon’s role had a huge amount of influence on the game both through his role itself and through his play. His play, although not allowing himself to win, put the Insane in a very tight position very early on as well as jeopardising the Sophisticated’s chances.

    Best ARC member – Hipmonlee. Hipmonlee organised the village and managed to convince his enemies to become his allies on multiple occasions. He successfully managed the village information and did a role claim swap with Afroninja22 to protect himself, since he had the strongest role. I think Hipmonlee did the best he could with what he had, and he proved that the village doesn’t need a village leader in the early part of the game, it just needs someone to step up and tell everyone the situation.

    Best Sophisticated – Fishin. Fishin organised his team, and while most of his team was inactive (barring asim), Fishin decided who was killed and make a false claim. asim could also be considered for this position, but I am not aware of the extent of his actions. He must have talked to AlphaBravo, and organised an interesting item swap.

    Best Insane – LightWolf. Despite LightWolf giving up his whole team to Kannon, I feel he did the most to ensure his team’s success early on, by organising false claims for several of them (though they were unfortunately not used). Neither porygon3 nor Accent got a chance to do much, and Exarius was fairly new to mafia and didn’t make any mistakes.

    Best Move – Hipmonlee convincing the wolf and mafia to join sides with him. If this had not happened, it would have been 3-4 villagers against a wolf, a mafia, and another wolf.

    Most Clueless – AlphaBravo. AlphaBravo proposed all kinds of strange ideas, like his very strange kill system post. Most of them were shut down pretty quickly and ignored. Umbreon Dan could also be considered for this, but he at least had a more viable alternative scenario in mind to what was actually happening.

    Best False Claim – blue_light. I don’t think there were many good or effective false claims this game, but until he died, blue_light looked like he was in a great position to wreak havoc and control the game. He fooled Kannon with his claim and gained all of Kannon’s information, but that later became public anyway. Lesm46 and LightWolf both made pretty good false claims too, but I don’t think they were used.

    Best Neutral – Lesm46. He played the neutral part very well, and was one of two original neutrals to win (the other being ExplorerAce, who didn’t do very much for his win). He solved the imperfectluck mystery along with Hipmonlee, which would have been pretty disastrous for everyone if it went unsolved.

    Overall Best Player – Hipmonlee. I’ve already talked about Hipmonlee a lot, so there isn’t much more to say. Hipmonlee basically controlled this game for the last three or so days and nights, which was about half the game. Though he didn’t get to do much role-wise, he did do a lot of negotiations and information management, which in the end allowed ARC to win.

    And finally…

    Person Who Bugged Me The Most To Post The Postgame – Exarius. Congratulations on winning this prestigious award. Runner ups include: AlphaBravo, Mekkah – better luck next time.

    [a]conclusion[/a]Conclusion

    Chaos Mafia was altogether a very chaotic and successful game, and it did meet my expectations, although it didn’t end up quite as one-sided as I expected it to become! Seeing that this game was successful, look forward to other experimental games that I host! I plan to host at least two more small mafia games in the future, including: Flow Mafia, Chaos Mafia II. For those who enjoyed participating in or observing Chaos Mafia, Chaos Mafia II is probably right down your alley!

    Thanks to Gmax for planning the game and helping me update a couple of times (i.e. co-host). Thanks to everyone that played the game too!

    Thanks for reading this postgame, and rest assured that I won’t use this postgame format for future postgames because it takes a ridiculous amount of time.
  2. AlphaBravo

    AlphaBravo

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    I should've blown up D5 to prevent the critical villager Hipmonlee from being daykilled. Luckily IPL targeted Altair.

    D/N3:
    Yes the Itemswap was planned.
    However, I suspected Hipmonlee and wanted to get him (or one of his mafia allies) killed. D4,0 I planned to leak to him that asim was Q with his Role from Minor Character Mafia (He didn't claim to me, but I thank that the Anti-Lynch grenade would be a good bait). Afterwards, I would spam BLOW UP posts on all users, inevitably exploding on asim's killer. And in mafia, a vanillager for a mafioso is a good trade.
  3. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD

    [​IMG]
  4. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
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    The lynching of Kannon actually won us the game. Had he died to IPL's kill, IPL would have made 2 of his 3 kills without us having heard of the fact that his name is mentioned in the kill PMs at all, and could have waited until there was only 2 players alive to kill again. Basically even if we had realised there was a non listed member we would have had to have lynched everyone who tried to sign up, and possibly the hosts as well.

    I guess the only other thing would have been to resurrect the people who had died during the day and ask them for the details of their pms..

    Have a nice day.
  5. Earthworm

    Earthworm
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 6 Champion

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    2,649
    Oh yeah that reminds me, Kannon actually did mention that it was imperfectluck to at least the Insane:

    [09:13] <LightWolf> okay good news we got him
    [09:14] <LightWolf> bad news he dies at the end of day 1...
    [09:14] <porygon3> lol
    [09:14] <porygon3> from our destiny thing?
    [09:14] <LightWolf> no
    [09:14] <LightWolf> it was ipl's voide lol
    [09:14] <LightWolf> *voice
    [09:15] <porygon3> ?
    [09:15] <LightWolf> you heard a voice that you're certain belonged to imperfectluck saying 'You will die at the end of Day 1.' Immediately after hearing this, you saw very unpleasant and horrific images form in your mind. This can't be good news!
  6. Exarius

    Exarius

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    718
    the thing is, LW didn't mention that to me (I think I came online 2 hours after that, so I never got that even in my logs), and since I practically run alone after that 1 day (I didn't trust billy because of Kannon incident), I had no idea IPL was in the game before he died :p

    Also, the Hip inspect could have ended being very nice for me, I thought about contacting him with my role, and offering help to find his mask in exchange for a recruit to ACR, but in the end I decided against that. Oh well, better remember that for the next time.

    and finally...

    LOL!
  7. Mekkah

    Mekkah
    is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Joined:
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    ALL GLORY TO THE HIPMOTOAD

    [​IMG]
  8. Fishin

    Fishin
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Nov 8, 2005
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    I was going to make a nice post describing how I liked the theme and many of the powers a lot but not how the game proceeded mainly due to me getting boned by the whole Kannon affair and then unable to get recruited by Hipmonlee due to slow/overly suspicious villagers bu-ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD

    ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD
    [​IMG]
  9. Amelia

    Amelia

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,851
    This was one of the small games which i watched really closely, not only due to the hosts (EW and Gmax, long time mafia players), but also the players themselves, with many prominent names. From the spectator's perspective, it was a really good game, bu-ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD
  10. asim

    asim

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    493
    yeah ew you were pretty much right. i had contact with fishin over a few things, but i could never get in contact with moot/gts at all. i also did talk a bit with alphabravo (although a lot of it was me trolling him with the "did-not-get-ins" thing) and organized the item swap.

    anyway, i really liked my role a lot. i'm glad i could at least make the items semi-malicious and hide things. thanks for hosting and hypnotoad blah blah blah
  11. Altair

    Altair just who is the coon?

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    617
    This was definitely my favorite mafia to play, helping hip lead the village (kinda) was quite fun!

    ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD etc
  12. Accent

    Accent

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    877
    I've briefly discussed my opinion on the game on IRC with some users and I was told that 'the game wasn't intended to be balanced' (which is true apparently but i'll comment on that later) and that 'everyone knew what they getting into' - well I was never aware that I was about to play in a game as unbalanced as this. For reference, the warnings were:
    My impression is that you didn't design the game at all. You just came up with cool ideas for roles and assigned them to various factions, in an attempt to have it somewhat equally spread out - but a role like Krakatoa simply has repercussions that are too huge and unpredictable to be in any game, in my opinion. Look at a role like Samara: this was a powerful wolf, with an original twist, and yet it had a definite and predictable influence over the game. Same for Bryan for example.

    My point is that 'powerful characters and chaotic progression' should be how the players perceive the game, not the hosts, who should still have made it guaranteed that it would be fairly balanced. Did you make some test runs to see how it would go if all the roles from each faction were used to their best? It doesn't look like it.

    Now if the point WAS actually 'i don't care about balance i just tossed some powerful roles together and we'll see what happens', well to me it is just a lack of respect towards the players. I mean you just used 24 users to test an experiment... I consider it the host's responsibility to make sure that as many players as possible have a good time for the longest possible amount of time, and having roles that can completely destroy a faction by day 2 (which is what you said you were expecting) doesn't really fit into that conception.


    ...

    Now of course all isn't bad, I think all the players who remained alive long enough or weren't luckfucked enjoyed it, some roles were great, the flavour was good, your hosting was flawless I think... So thanks for that at least. And tbh assuming you didn't actually intend to screw the players, I prefer this kind of experiment over a dull unoriginal game... but still!
  13. AlphaBravo

    AlphaBravo

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    Asim, I organised the item swap - it was a plan to get one of Hip's (which I thought was mafia) friends killed (along with both of us, but you taking a mafia's kill and both of us being claimed vanilla made it a good trade): I planned to tell Hip that you are Q with your Minor Char. Mafia Role PM and that you ARE holding the anti-lynch grenade along with another interesting item, getting you killed and giving the mafioso my Lit Candle. Then, I would have spammed Blowing Up's on all users, inevitably hitting the Lit Candle holder. Unless Hip made the kill himself, this action would also discover his alliance.
  14. polelover44

    polelover44

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,411

    Epic win.
  15. Earthworm

    Earthworm
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 6 Champion

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    I respect your opinion, but I feel that it would be near impossible to balance a game as high-powered as this. I did put thought into what roles went where and tried to balance it out with my estimates of each role's strength. You're right that I didn't do a full test run, I just thought through the possibilities of each role to the best of my ability beforehand, and tried to work out how many people I thought would die each night, whether it was an acceptable number, etc. I guess that's kind of a test run, but maybe not one as in depth as you're talking about.

    Krakatoa was expected to be the equivalent of a previously existing role which skips a Night phase, but instead of entirely skipping it, everything would target Kannon and most roles would negate each other. I did not anticipate that Krakatoa would be used Night 0, and so I didn't expect Kannon to be recruited so many times over. I don't think I did anything wrong by including the role, but I can see why you would. You're probably aware that the issue of some sides having bad luck is present in a large number of mafia games, and not just ones with very powerful roles. It isn't really something entirely avoidable, and I personally don't think I crossed a line by including a role of this calibre in my game.

    Obviously the point wasn't just to experiment; I agree that it is the hosts' responsibility to provide a fun game, and I tried my best to do that. Most reviews I received thought that the game was fun (in fact I think this is the only exception). I knew that there was the potential for factions to be destroyed early on, and that the potential chance was higher than the chance in most games, and perhaps I should have clarified this in the sign-ups. If you wish I will do this for my future small mafia games which will have similar experimental themes. Sorry if I didn't provide a fun experience for you, and anyone else who feels this way.

    Thanks everyone for your feedback!
  16. Accent

    Accent

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
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    877
    No don't get me wrong, it was 'fun'* - I enjoyed the game overall, and more than other games in which I've been. But I think it could have been a lot better with more focus on balance rather than over-the-top roles (without making it like any other game obviously), as in my opinion the overall coherence of the game is more important than the individual roles. The roles that were 'broken' (ie. even for this game) were the ones that had too much impact on the others, and thus broke that overall coherence. Hopefully you'll at least consider this comment while designing Chaos Mafia 2! And of course if at any point you want my advice/opinion on anything don't hesitate to ask :)

    *'fun' with quotation marks because it was fun to see what happened due to the actions having incredible consequences, but not as fun as in a mafia where you actively plan and outpredict etc. In that game most of the events were heavily influenced by luck or the moods of the players, not skillful play.
  17. blue_light

    blue_light

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
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    I remember talking to Kannon during Night 0 and convincing him to use his one timer on Night 0 because I didn't want him using it on a night that could kill. Unfortunately for him, he pretty much got screwed, but I had a nice little plan going with the info that he had given me.

    Btw, Fishin is a name-killing toe rag.
  18. LightWolf

    LightWolf lightwoof
    is a Forum Moderator
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    I can only blame myself for only skimming through Kannon's n0 posts (how did I miss the part where he said he was going to mass-martyr everyone...) And I guess that AlphaBravo trying to prove I was bad because of posting a picture of a wookie distracted me a bit...

    I originally wasn't going to talk to Kannon at all since we knew he was useless now, but the fact that EVERY role targeted him was tempting, I also kinda assumed the recruits worked like in Viva, as in they fail on multi target.

    This mafia still was fun even with my short life, and I for one liked the brokenness as it allowed much wilder fake claims to be made.

    Also while I agree that p3 was used bad, but in that situation we weren't going to live for long and gaining a good power may be our only chance, if the kannon thing hadn't happened I'd have most likely waited with it for late game targeting two villagers and a mafia/wolf (either kills a mafia off or swaps their power for a weaker villager one)
  19. Mr.378

    Mr.378

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
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    Fun Game, I made a bit of a mistake talking as oddjob but, it did not matter in the end!

    ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
    [​IMG]

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