Chapter Four

[Bowl Cut]

Chapter Four

Hey guys, I was pretty much taking a small break from competitive Pokemon due to a continent called 'Africa', but I came back about two weeks ago and I had a new team to write about! This team, as you can see, is not my best work (my best work is ironically the first one I made after my break from 4th Gen, lol), but it's quite efficient if you predict well. One weakness you'll notice is Life Orb Starmie, which I, in worst cases, have to resort into sacrificing a member just to check it. Curse Tyranitar and Life Orb Shaymin can deal with this team quite easily if I screw up at any point in the match, but that's where Jirachi comes in to check all of the above, including Life Orb Starmie. There are obviously more weaknesses to this team, but I'll leave it to you, the raters, to point them out, otherwise I'd sit here for another ten minutes listing and describing the rest of the team's weaknesses, and have you guys have nothing else to talk about than just replace this, replace that. The name 'Chapter Four' is based on the song of the same name by, my favorite band, Avenged Sevenfold.

With all of that said, it's time to start looking into the team!

Azelf @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 144 Atk / 112 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Zen Headbutt
- Explosion
- U-turn
- Ice Punch


Conceived! And one was born of light!
Give me your hand, blood is spilt and man will follow,


Not exactly the best lead in the metagame, but it kind of gets the job done. In most cases, all I do is U-turn in the first turn, just to get that little bit of damage (or a ton of damage if it's the ever so rare Lead Celebi for example) and send in Heatran to deal with the leads that Azelf cannot, or just simply scout the switch in and send in my answer to that. If U-turning first turn isn't the case, Ice Punch and Zen Headbutt work well against most common leads bar Heatran. Explosion is really the last move I'd use in the match, when I really need to just sacrifice something that won't be relevant, and if said something is Azelf, that's when I detonate the bomb.

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion


Rain and dark! The other born black night!
Infernal man, punishment too grave to bear...


Azelf's partner in crime when dealing with leads. Like I said before, Shuca Heatran deals with what Azelf cannot, although I have to rely on a speed tie of all things to beat opposing Lead Heatran, so I have to send in Suicune in that case to keep Heatran healthy, but if that's not the case, Heatran can come in on whatever wants to murder Azelf and set up Stealth Rocks or go all out offensive. The selection of moves is pretty standard on any Heatran; Fire Blast is easily Heatran's most powerful move in this set, as it even hits Gyarados for almost 1/3 or something around that, Earth Power is there to obviously hit opposing Heatran, and Explosion is, just like Azelf's Explosion, a last resort.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]


Raise your head,
And taste the courage (the one on light!),
Fall from grace,
Unholy night...


It's Suicune, it's Offensive, it's got great coverage, and is one hell of a late game sweeper. Once Blissey, and potentially Kingdra, are taken care of, this thing will just wreck late game. Calm Mind boosts it's Special Attack and Special Defense stats to <GODMODE> after a few boosts, and if your lasts happen to be Special Attackers, well then you might as well hope for a critical hit if this thing's at +2. At +2, Suicune enters <GODMODE>, and Hydro Pump will hit things that don't resist it fall on their knees, making it the preferred 'hey let's spam this' kind of move. Hidden Power Electric and Ice Beam give Suicune the access to a pseudo bolt-beam combo, and it helps me check Gyarados and Dragonite for example, who would otherwise not mind taking Hydro Pumps 24/7.

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- ThunderPunch


I've come here to kill you,
Won't leave until you die,
Murder born of vengeance,
I closed my brother's eyes,
Toniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...


The obligatory choiced user of the team. Iron Head, Fire Punch, Ice Punch and ThunderPunch provide Jirachi the coverage that it needs to successfully revenge kill any and all potential threats to this team, and althrough it's not as bulky as the Calm Mind variant, it can still switch into moves that are neutral against it or moves that it resists. Iron Head checks (and hopefully flinches) any Tyranitar variant there is out there, Fire Punch checks Scizor although it's not that big of a threat, Ice Punch checks Dragonite late game and ThunderPunch revenges water types at around 40%, who would otherwise live one due two Jirachi's lack of muscle.

Flygon @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Roost


Far away in this land I must go,
Out of the sight of The One.
A punishment sent from his hands
A hardship that no one should know
Now go out of the sight of The One,
Away in this land you must go.



Instead of writing an essay about this thing, I am going to quote myself on my older RMT:

The big bad Mixed Flygon is here. You can hide on top of a mountain (I personally wouldn't, this thing can fly), you can hide underground (I personally wouldn't, this thing can learn Dig), you can hide in your bedroom closet, but no matter where you are, or what you are, Flygon will hunt you down and set things straight with you and your oh so good Flygon switch in - Gliscor. Yeah, send it in on an Earthquake, that won't save you, cause Flygon can summon meteors from the sky. That's right, you heard me - METEORS. Huh, what? Not enough? Fine. Send in your Skarmory on this Flygon. I don't care. This mofo can breathe fire to save it's life from stupid metal birds and bagworms that can set up every hazard in the game. What? Flygon has been weakened? Fear not as Flygon has life insurance - Roost. Yeah, this thing is good. That's all I can say. It's as if you're facing a weaker Mixed Dragonite with better typing.

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Roost

Where have you gone, what have you done...?
A voice commands, from high, above, this earth,
From the soil his blood cries out to meeee,
Murder! Liar! Vengeance! Deceit!

I was never a fan of Offensive Zapdos until now when I finally used it. My God what a good cleaner it is. Thunderbolt is one of those 'hey let's spam this' kind of move, because I end up using it 75% of the time. Heat Wave and Hidden Power Grass hit Grass types and Ground types, respectively. Roost is just like what Roost is to Flygon, Staraptor, Dragonite or anything along the lines of 'I use Life Orb, I need recovery'. The only sad thing is trying to bring this thing in if I am forced to, as a misprediction can end up being the death of the electrical bird, due to the abundance of a spinner.

Well that's it for the RMT, I'll obviously make some changes to it, seeing as it looks like an outdated team in some people's perspectives, but for now, this will do.

I'm out, peace!

 

[BKC]

Hi Dan, excellent team; I like the A7X theme (Chapter Four ftw). You have the whole metagame covered well but you are lacking the two most important things that are necessary when supporting a Zapdos sweep; a Blissey killer and a Rapid Spinner. Life Orb Starmie is also a large threat. Let's start by fixing the Blissey / Starmie issue by changing Heatran's set up.

the set is

Heatran @ Passho Berry | Mild | EVs: 40 Atk / 252 HP / 216 Spe
Stealth Rock / Magma Storm / Hidden Power Electric / Explosion

So lets talk about how this set improves the team's performance. Blissey is most commonly seen on stall teams, who use Gyarados as their primary Heatran switch-in. Right off the bat you will surprise kill them with HP Electric. Their next switch will be Blissey. You can switch out and scare them off with Azelf to bluff them into thinking you don't have Explosion. The next time Heatran gets a free switch versus Forretress you can fire off a Magma Storm, trap Bliss, and Explode in its face, letting Zapdos run wild. This set also helps with the Starmie weakness, as it will often show itself once you send Heatran in. You can take the Life Orb Hydro Pump thanks to the Passho Berry and respond with an HP Electric, sending them to their death.

So that's the Blissey/Starmie problem fixed. Now we need to implement a Rapid Spinner in order to cover for Zapdos' SR weakness. I think an LO Starmie of your own would do wonders here. It 2HKOs every spinblocker there is with its insanely powerful Hydro Pump, meaning getting a spin off will be quite easy with a bit of prediction. I think the best spot to fit it in is over Suicune, as they have identical coverage so you will be losing as little as possible. It comes at the cost of bulk but with the bonus of very high speed and superior power. I would post the set but I think you know it well enough.

The last suggestion I want to make is not as necessary but it's a cool idea that I think is worth a shot. CB Azelf is a cool lead but it's been slowly rising in popularity which means when you go up against other CBzelf the whole pace of the match can be dictated by whoever wins the speed tie and gets the U-turn kill. This idea of mine is Scarf Scizor. It has been used in Every Breath You Take, a very successful team (aka peaked #1) that really shows how good ScarfZor lead is. It will Pursuit Starmie and Azelf leads right off the bat without any worries of a speed tie (killing Starmie is also highly benefitial to the team even with PasshoTran). Heatran / Starmie will take on the bulkier leads that Scizor can't beat.

In a nutshell: PasshoTran > current set, LO Starmie > Suicune, (optional) Scarf Scizor > Azelf. Great team, good luck!

 

[Faladran]

Solid team. One thing you should try is switching Thunderpunch out for U-turn on Jirachi (Suicune covers Gyarados). This gives Jirachi a lot more mobility and scouting ability against offensive teams and allows it to serve as an extra check to LO Starmie without being locked into Thunderpunch. Trick is definitely viable as well, since the ability to shut down late-game stat boosters is invaluable.

I personally like SubRoost for Zapdos, but your LO set is still pretty good. Substitute just works really well with Zapdos' typing and makes sure you don't get hampered by certain status ailment abusers. Good luck!

 

[george182]

This reminds me of my favorite team:
The Powerless Rise

I'm not a fan of offensive zapdos as its unreliable, some teams are completely unprepared for it, but others are just not affected by it at all. I think you should try out The Powerless Rise, because it always helps to try out teams similar to your own.

 

[Fayne]

^ How is zapdos unreliable? lol

Chapter Four. This is a solid team you have there; as Kevin said, you have pretty much the metagame covered.

It's not much of a rate, but first of all I would like to second LO Starmie over Suicune as Kevin suggested. Zapdos is fairly bulky, but without investment it can't take repeated beatings while switching into SR each time. Also, with Life Orb and potentially sand racking up damage, it's going to be hard for Zapdos to remain at good health. Against offensive teams, you might not be able to squeeze in a turn for roost. Fast, hard hitters (e.g. Infernape, Starmie) easily force out Zapdos after it nabs a kill; this means you lose 25% from the initial switch-in, 10% after a kill, and another 25% from the second switch-in as you are forced to switch out. Starmie remedies this problem, and poses a direct threat to both offensive and defensive teams alike.

Passho Heatran helps with Kingdra who otherwise gets free set-up versus Cune/Mie, but Shuca Berry somewhat alleviates your Shaymin problems. If using Shuca though, I would recommend Timid or Mild over Naive as it helps Tran take LO Shaymin's Earth Power better.

A change I would make to your team would be Trick over Ice Punch and Thunderpunch on CBZelf and ScarfRachi respectively. Two choiced users with the ability to trick their items off gives you a potent weapon against defensive teams and saves you from potential last pokemon sweeps. With the Special Defense EVs on Azelf, you can trick Choice Band to opposing lead Heatran and live the incoming FB / Overheat. Your team doesn't particularly like Heatran as it forces Cune and Flygon out early, and the risk of Explosion is always there.

In summary,
- LO Starmie > Offensive Cune
- Trick > Ice Punch on CBZelf
- Trick > Thunderpunch on ScarfRachi

That's all I have, good luck with your team!

 

[BKC]

I'm not a fan of offensive zapdos as its unreliable, some teams are completely unprepared for it, but others are just not affected by it at all. I think you should try out The Powerless Rise, because it always helps to try out teams similar to your own.

Echoing Fayne here. How is offensive Zapdos unreliable? It's an incredibly efficient late-game cleaner that just blows FWG cores apart, it's got recovery, and once Heatran traps Blissey it walks all over stall.

 

[Requiem[9]]

Looking at this team, I see a slight weakness to Raikou, Jolteon, CBTar, and pretty much any offensive water type. If you were to use Starmie over Suicune, some of these weaknesses would be even more prominent, as nothing on your team -- beyond Heatran, whose job is to boom early -- could really take a hit. Rotom-W could be a problem as well, if you squint, since nothing on the team will enjoy a WoW and Flygon and Zapdos won't like Hydro Pump or Thunderbolt, respectively, too much. I'm not sure what's the best way of fixing this; my gut instinct is to suggest a grass type like Roserade since Toxic Spikes are a huge help to Flygon and Zapdos, breaking bulky waters and putting pressure on Blissey. I'm not a huge fan of CB Azelf as a lead these days because of how common they are and how often games are decided by a first turn speed tie, so I'd recommend replacing that if you go this route. Roserade with max speed EVs and a neutral nature outspeeds Timid Heatran by exactly one point, so you could lead with a Sleep Powder/Toxic Spikes/Energy Ball/Rest or HP Fire set with 252 HP/252 Speed/4 SpD @ Calm with Leftovers. Or, you could move your Heatran to the lead position and have a standard Roserade elsewhere. I'd recommend Specstran, personally, since I hate LO and Machamp could conceivably give you problems. Modest Specstran is ridiculously powerful and fairly rare these days. Also, many Blissey players feel comfortable switching into them since they rarely have Explosion (though Overheat does a truckload) so it would be easier to boom if you choose to go that route with a Rash nature. This would give you a solid switch into Rotom-W, Jolteon, Raikou, Starmie, and Suicune and support the team by poisoning Tyranitar and pressuring Blissey, opening sweeps for Zapdos. I don't like this mostly because it completes a FWG core and makes your team a lot more predictable and thus exploitable, but it seems like the best option. One big issue I see with Roserade is Infernape, so a more defensive Suicune is an option. I feel that the Zapdos/Flygon/Suicune core of the team keeps it from being completely stable, so you might want to consider dropping Jirachi to patch it up. I don't feel a scarfer's a luxury such an offensive team can truly afford, so having something like Starmie or CBape or Gengar over it would sacrifice a bit more stability for a lot more power, giving you a comfortable way of dealing with Infernape should Suicune go down. Alternatively, I can almost see a Scarftar lead working for this team, killing Azelf and Starmie and trapping Starmie in the midgame, since Zapdos and Heatran switch pretty comfortably into all of its bad matchups. I'd only do this with SubRoost Zapdos, however, to ward Metagross's Explosions. SubRoost Zapdos would also help against CBtar.

After that, I'd recommend Trick > Thunderpunch and 240 Speed @ Rash for Flygon. I'm not as sure about Trick > Thunderpunch because of how easily Gyarados gets a DD on Flygon and sweeps if Suicune is down, but you do have a slight problem with Curselax and Raikou and 2 solid checks for Gyarados. If you do use SubRoost Zapdos, it'd be even less of an issue. As for Flygon: in my experience with it, Flygon really can't afford the loss of a +SpA nature. If I'm not mistaken, the only relevant thing your current spread outspeeds is Jolly Lucario, which will always Extremespeed. The other pokemon on your team handle Shaymin and Celebi while Jirachi always runs more or less speed. 240 speed lets it outspeed Timid Suicune.

Hopefully something I've said helps.

 

[george182]

Echoing Fayne here. How is offensive Zapdos unreliable? It's an incredibly efficient late-game cleaner that just blows FWG cores apart, it's got recovery, and once Heatran traps Blissey it walks all over stall.

I think its unreliable in the same way Rain dance and Trick room teams are unreliable. Also, his Heatran cannot trap Blissey, Zapdos doesn't "walk all over" Sp.def Heatran, Scarf Tar, Sp.def Hippowdon or sp.def Rotom-A. It also doesn't rip FWG apart, the only two fire types commonly used are Infernape and Heatran, both of which can KO zapdos 1 vs 1. The most common grass types are Brelloom, Celebi, Shaymin and Roserade, (Thunderwave, (HP ice speed tie) and Stun Spore can criple/ko zapdos respectively). It does beat Brelloom, but without hp ev's and leftovers you can no longer switch into it. Then also consider the second most popular pokemon in OU is scarf Flygon, who walls your Zapdos. Not too mention Zapdos only has 100 base speed, and their are still plenty of pokemon capable of revenge killing it. Zapdos also finds it really hard to switch in as after stealth rocks loads of pokemon are capable of 2HKOing it and its resistances to e.g. Bug, Flying and Steel aren't that useful anymore. Its unreliable and not an efficient team member in my opinion.

 

[Fayne]

his Heatran cannot trap Blissey, Zapdos doesn't "walk all over" Sp.def Heatran, Scarf Tar, Sp.def Hippowdon or sp.def Rotom-A.

Kevin suggested Magma Storm which fixes that. What he places on his team doesn't make Zapdos more or 'less reliable'. Zapdos 3HKOs the most defensive of Heatran and 2HKOs ScarfTar with T-bolt, meaning they can only switch in and force Zapdos out once. Zapdos can break Hippo and Rotom-A after some residual damage while they cannot do anything back in return. How does listing out Zapdos's checks prove your point? If that is the case, Breloom is unreliable because Celebi walls it to hell and back, Celebi is unreliable because Infernape smashes through it, Infernape is unreliable because he cannot touch Starmie, Starmie is unreliable because of all the pursuit users in OU, and heck, every choiced user with pursuit is unreliable because they are set-up fodder for Breloom. It doesn't; every pokemon has its own list of checks.

It also doesn't rip FWG apart, the only two fire types commonly used are Infernape and Heatran, both of which can KO zapdos 1 vs 1.

LO Zapdos vs 0/4 Timid Heatran w/ T-bolt: 64.1% - 75.5%
LO Zapdos vs 0/0 Naive Infernape w/ T-bolt: 98.6% - 116.7%

How are both going to switch into Zapdos and pose any threat at all? The best plan is to sacrifice one member each time Zapdos switches in, and hope Starmie doesn't perform its job.

Physically Based MixApe vs Zapdos w/ Stone Edge: 86% - 101.6%
252 SpA Modest Heatran vs Zapdos w/ Fire Blast: 73.2% - 86.3%

Barring near max damage rolls from Stone Edge, both will never beat Zapdos 1v1.

The most common grass types are Brelloom, Celebi, Shaymin and Roserade, (Thunderwave, (HP ice speed tie) and Stun Spore can criple/ko zapdos respectively).

1) What Celebi carries Thunder Wave and runs max speed?
2) LO Shaymin vs Zapdos w/ HP Ice: 56.1% - 66.7%
3) Breloom with Spore is so uncommon, people would switch Zapdos into Loom not expecting said move.

Heat Wave vs 252 HP/136 SpD Calm Roserade: 66% - 77.8%
Heat Wave vs 252 HP Celebi (defensive): 68.3% - 80.7%

^ Azelf/Heatran/Flygon says hi.

Heat Wave vs 4 HP Shaymin (life orb): 80.7% - 95.3%
Heat Wave vs 12 HP Breloom: 157.6% - 185.6%

It does beat Brelloom, but without hp ev's and leftovers you can no longer switch into it.

252 Atk Adamant Breloom vs Zapdos w/ Focus Punch: 47.7% - 56.1%
If MixNite and Gengar are considered checks to Breloom, I don't see the problem with Zapdos.

Then also consider the second most popular pokemon in OU is scarf Flygon, who walls your Zapdos. Not too mention Zapdos only has 100 base speed, and their are still plenty of pokemon capable of revenge killing it.

Scarfed Flygon checks 7 out of 10 of the most used pokemon in OU (Heatran, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Infernape, Starmie, Jirachi, Dragonite). I'm not complaining. So, anything equal to or below 100 base speed is considered unreliable? We need to move Salamence back into OU.

Zapdos also finds it really hard to switch in as after stealth rocks loads of pokemon are capable of 2HKOing it

Starmie says hi. Also, Zapdos is no Yanmega.

its resistances to e.g. Bug, Flying and Steel aren't that useful anymore.

#4 Scizor (22.4099%) 11283 battles
#9 Jirachi (20.7753%) 10460 battles
#11 Metagross (17.6312%) 8877 battles

Zapdos has 5 resistances and 1 immunity. Just saying.

 

[Fayne]

And I thought the sarcasm was apparent.

 

[george182]

Kevin suggested Magma Storm which fixes that. What he places on his team doesn't make Zapdos more or 'less reliable'. Zapdos 3HKOs the most defensive of Heatran and 2HKOs ScarfTar with T-bolt, meaning they can only switch in and force Zapdos out once. Zapdos can break Hippo and Rotom-A after some residual damage while they cannot do anything back in return. How does listing out Zapdos's checks prove your point? If that is the case, Breloom is unreliable because Celebi walls it to hell and back, Celebi is unreliable because Infernape smashes through it, Infernape is unreliable because he cannot touch Starmie, Starmie is unreliable because of all the pursuit users in OU, and heck, every choiced user with pursuit is unreliable because they are set-up fodder for Breloom. It doesn't; every pokemon has its own list of checks.



LO Zapdos vs 0/4 Timid Heatran w/ T-bolt: 64.1% - 75.5%
LO Zapdos vs 0/0 Naive Infernape w/ T-bolt: 98.6% - 116.7%

How are both going to switch into Zapdos and pose any threat at all? The best plan is to sacrifice one member each time Zapdos switches in, and hope Starmie doesn't perform its job.

Physically Based MixApe vs Zapdos w/ Stone Edge: 86% - 101.6%
252 SpA Modest Heatran vs Zapdos w/ Fire Blast: 73.2% - 86.3%

Barring near max damage rolls from Stone Edge, both will never beat Zapdos 1v1.



1) What Celebi carries Thunder Wave and runs max speed?
2) LO Shaymin vs Zapdos w/ HP Ice: 56.1% - 66.7%
3) Breloom with Spore is so uncommon, people would switch Zapdos into Loom not expecting said move.

Heat Wave vs 252 HP/136 SpD Calm Roserade: 66% - 77.8%
Heat Wave vs 252 HP Celebi (defensive): 68.3% - 80.7%

^ Azelf/Heatran/Flygon says hi.

Heat Wave vs 4 HP Shaymin (life orb): 80.7% - 95.3%
Heat Wave vs 12 HP Breloom: 157.6% - 185.6%



252 Atk Adamant Breloom vs Zapdos w/ Focus Punch: 47.7% - 56.1%
If MixNite and Gengar are considered checks to Breloom, I don't see the problem with Zapdos.



Scarfed Flygon checks 7 out of 10 of the most used pokemon in OU (Heatran, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Infernape, Starmie, Jirachi, Dragonite). I'm not complaining. So, anything equal to or below 100 base speed is considered unreliable? We need to move Salamence back into OU.



Starmie says hi. Also, Zapdos is no Yanmega.





Zapdos has 5 resistances and 1 immunity. Just saying.

I don't think you understand what I mean by unreliability. Reliability is a measure of how consistently useful a pokemon is, every pokemon will have a game where they do not contribute much, but some have these games less than others. I listed all the checks to show why I think what I do, also to show how stall and FWG are not "ripped apart", this is not to say Zapdos isn't effective against them. This is saying zapdos will not sweep and rip them apart.

You ignored stealth rocks in your damage calcs. Meaning that Heatran and Infernape will always KO zapdos in a 1 vs 1. Both can switch in on Heatwave/Hidden power Grass. Also Flygon takes damage from the stab moves of Heatran/Tyranitar etc. He is imune to zapdos' stab and can force it out all day which racks up SR damage every time. Then the others you mentioned Jirachi, Dragonite, Infernape, and Starmie can all OHKO flygon with respective moves. The only pokemon SR weak commonly holding a life orb is Dragonite, but Dragonite is very reliable and will often do damage with a mixed or DD set. Neither of which zapdos can do.

With a life orb and stealth rocks Zapdos cannot affort to just "switch out" of it's checks lol. Especially if sandstorm is in play. Salamence is uber because of many factors that zapdos does not have. Most notably beeing a dragon, Intimidate, threatning dragon dance, Stab Dracco meteor and awesome coverage options. Salamance was not banned because it was base 100 speed.

You check the usage stats and then get the top10 wrong?

Looking at the top10 is even worse, Zapdos is outsped by 4 of the top10 (Starmie, Azelf, Gengar and Infernape). Speed ties 1 (However Flygon is normally scarfed and walls Zapdos to death). Zapdos can't beat Tyranitar, Heatran and Blissey 1 vs 1. Leaving just Scizor and Brelloom, Zapdos does not tear up the metagame lol. In fact its the oposite and its unreliable in my opinion.

At best most games I can only see zapdos going 1 for 1, as after SR life orb and being hit back it will be easily revenge killed and SR will prevent it from switching back in. Zapdos only needs to be hit for 50% damage and it can no longer switch back in. Meaning most games its only going 1 for 1, then getting revenge killed. There will also be games where it does nothing, bringing the average bellow 1. If an offensive pokemon has a KDR under 1, it really isn't worth using. Zapdos cannot just come out and cause a tonne of damage like Dragonite can, mainly due to inferior stab and a lack of coverage. I understand why you think Zapdos is effective but I choose to disagree with you.

Finally, how can you suggest Brelloom is unreliable? Brelloom is probably the most reliable offensive pokemon in the game. Spore + Focus punch is really deadly for any team, and Brelloom also has a favourable matchup against stall. Brelloom resist stealth rocks, is usually unaffected by toxic spikes and he has poison heal.

 

[george182]

I recommend
- Using Brelloom over Zapdos
- Changing Jirachi to a CM varient to make up for the loss of Zapdos
- Scarfing Flygon to make up for the lack of scarf Jirachi.

Edit:
So the team would be
- CB azelf
- Heatran (What he currently has is fine, although he could make use of a pasho berry)
- Scarf Flygon
- Cm Jirachi (Wish or Sub, 252 speed/252hp/4special attack)
- Brelloom (Sub, Spore, Focus Punch, Seed Bomb)
- Suicune

 

[[HP] Juan]

The team is:
-CB Zelf
-Fire storm tran (BKC's set)
-ScarfGon
-CM wisher jirachi
-Breloom (seed bomb) Adamant.
-Rapid spin starmie, max hp, max spe, recover, rapid spin, surf, t-bolt.

Is all right ?

 

[Fayne]

I listed all the checks to show why I think what I do, also to show how stall and FWG are not "ripped apart", this is not to say Zapdos isn't effective against them. This is saying zapdos will not sweep and rip them apart.

Your argument is weak. FWG cores generally have problems with Zapdos. Stall teams fall apart the moment Blissey is removed, which is why Magma Storm + Explosion was suggested by Kevin. Can Lucario sweep and rip teams apart by itself? No; every decent team carries a check to it. Is Lucario still an effective sweeper in the current metagame? Yes. By "ripped apart" no one meant that Zapdos manhandles entire teams and breaks down cores by itself. Proper team support has to be executed. This is really common sense; if Zapdos can literally rip OU teams apart, it would be uber.

You ignored stealth rocks in your damage calcs. Meaning that Heatran and Infernape will always KO zapdos in a 1 vs 1. Both can switch in on Heatwave/Hidden power Grass. Also Flygon takes damage from the stab moves of Heatran/Tyranitar etc. He is imune to zapdos' stab and can force it out all day which racks up SR damage every time.

I know right. I use Life Orb Starmie for spin support and should expect my opponent to consistently maintain his rocks on my side of the field, especially when offensive Heatran and Infernape are commonly seen on stall teams designed to maintain hazards up for the entire battle. I have common sense. True story.

Then the others you mentioned Jirachi, Dragonite, Infernape, and Starmie can all OHKO flygon with respective moves.

I said scarfed Flygon. I also said scarfed Flygon is a check, not a counter.

The only pokemon SR weak commonly holding a life orb is Dragonite, but Dragonite is very reliable and will often do damage with a mixed or DD set. Neither of which zapdos can do.

"Dragonite can potentially do damage with a mixed or DD set.
Therefore, Dragonite is very reliable."

Petito Principii.

With a life orb and stealth rocks Zapdos cannot affort to just "switch out" of it's checks lol. Especially if sandstorm is in play. Salamence is uber because of many factors that zapdos does not have. Most notably beeing a dragon, Intimidate, threatning dragon dance, Stab Dracco meteor and awesome coverage options. Salamance was not banned because it was base 100 speed.

With roost and proper spin support I cannot affort to just keep Zapdos alive against its checks lol. How Salamence become uber is irrelevant. The point I made was while 100 base speed leaves something to be desired, but it's 'good enough' to get things done. MixMence has slightly more usage compared to the Dragon Dance variant when Salamence was OU, if that says anything. You say Zapdos is very susceptile to being revenge killed; what sweeper can't be revenged then? There is also a correlation between bulk (susceptibility to priority moves) and speed (ability to outspeed opposing threats); Zapdos has a good balance of both.

You check the usage stats and then get the top10 wrong?
Looking at the top10 is even worse, Zapdos is outsped by 4 of the top10 (Starmie, Azelf, Gengar and Infernape). Speed ties 1 (However Flygon is normally scarfed and walls Zapdos to death). Zapdos can't beat Tyranitar, Heatran and Blissey 1 vs 1. Leaving just Scizor and Brelloom, Zapdos does not tear up the metagame lol. In fact its the oposite and its unreliable in my opinion.

April Usage Stats
48909 battles
Heatran 41.3877 20838
Flygon 28.0287 14112
Tyranitar 24.11 12139
Starmie 23.1428 11652
Scizor 22.4099 11283
Gengar 21.8438 10998
Gyarados 21.8299 10991
Jirachi 20.7753 10460
Infernape 20.5012 10322
Dragonite 18.2985 9213
　
May Usage Stats
350 battles
Heatran 42.2665 184
Scizor 29.6325 129
Azelf 26.1868 114
Tyranitar 22.5115 98
Gengar 21.1332 92
Flygon 20.9035 91
Starmie 20.2144 88
Blissey 18.6064 81
Infernape 18.6064 81
Gliscor 17.6876 77

I quoted from April's usage stats. You are apparently looking at May's usage stats. Lrn2read.

At best most games I can only see zapdos going 1 for 1,

Get your eyes checked.

as after SR life orb and being hit back it will be easily revenge killed and SR will prevent it from switching back in.

Life Orb Starmie, you're fired.

Zapdos only needs to be hit for 50% damage and it can no longer switch back in. Meaning most games its only going 1 for 1, then getting revenge killed. There will also be games where it does nothing, bringing the average bellow 1. If an offensive pokemon has a KDR under 1, it really isn't worth using.

Nice statistics you gave as supporting evidence. I never knew KDR was used in pokemon, thanks for telling me that! May I know where you got Life Orb Zapdos's KDR from? Or are you centering your argument around an assumption?

Finally, how can you suggest Brelloom is unreliable? Brelloom is probably the most reliable offensive pokemon in the game. Spore + Focus punch is really deadly for any team, and Brelloom also has a favourable matchup against stall. Brelloom resist stealth rocks, is usually unaffected by toxic spikes and he has poison heal.

Breloom has as an equal, if not a longer list of checks and counters compared to Zapdos. Stall is also not "ripped apart" by Breloom, as Celebi, RestTalk Gyarados and Rotom-A are integral parts of stall. Breloom is outsped and easily OHKOed by nearly every offensive pokemon, being a dead weight against all-out offense and isn't able to even boast about half the bulk Zapdos has. Breloom does resist Stealth Rock, but stall's most potent weapon doesn't lie in SR alone; repeated shuffling with Spikes present on the field, coupled with Breloom's lack of an instant recovery move, makes Breloom just about unreliable as Zapdos to any well-constructed stall team. To top it off, Breloom doesn't have a myriad of useful resistances to write home about. These are the criteria you used to justify how Zapdos is 'unreliable'; I was merely using Breloom as an analogy to show how invalid your argument is. Now that you said that "Breloom is probably the most reliable offensive pokemon in the game", you have just contradicted yourself.

Finally, how can you suggest Zapdos is unreliable? Unresisted coverage from T-bolt, Heat Wave and its Hidden Power of choice is really deadly for any team, and Zapdos has a favourable matchup against both stall and offense. Starmie supports Zapdos by keeping rocks off the field, while Zapdos is unaffected by spikes and toxic spikes and has roost to offset Life Orb recoil.

I rest my case.

 

[Delko]

Fayne and George182, can you stop this stupid argument please (or continue in pm). This isn't helping Bowl Cut at all, and you might get an infraction. STOP!

 

[-RatCheesy]

I was going to post some suggestions but after reading most of the posts above, I decided not to lol.

 

[Bowl Cut]

Oh my God. That is one long argument so I'm not gonna read all of that. I'd like to point out that I have gone with the following changes:

- LO Starmie > Off. Cune
- Trick > ThunderPunch on Jirachi
- Scarfed Scizor > Banded Azelf
- Passho Heatran > Shuca Heatran

Expect changes soon if I don't forget to do them. Sorry I haven't been on in a while to read all of this due to real life things, mainly a math exam (which was very easy), and a project due tomorrow which isn't even half done.

 

[waleed7]

I thought the sarcasm was apparent.