1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Charizard (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Honko, May 8, 2011.

  1. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,159
    [​IMG]

    Charizard

    [Overview]

    <p>Ever since its debut as the mascot of Pokemon Red, Charizard has always been a fan favorite, but it's never quite been able to keep up with the standards in competitive play. Last generation was particularly rough for Charizard, with the prevalence of Stealth Rock causing the fiery dragon to fall all the way to NU. Thankfully, the Dream World brings Charizard a much-needed upgrade: Solar Power, its new ability, gives it unprecedented power in sunlight, which can easily be arranged thanks to the introduction of Drought Ninetales. Charizard is predictable, frail, and heavily reliant on support from its teammates, but when the conditions are right it can demolish teams with terrifying ease.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Solar Power
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Air Slash
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    ability: Solar Power
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>When the sun is shining, Solar Power instantly transforms Charizard into one of the most lethal special attackers in the game. Fire Blast receives the equivalent of three STAB boosts, making it a devastatingly powerful move that can quickly reduce an opponent's team to ashes. Even bulky Pokemon that resist Fire-type attacks, such as Latios and Jellicent, cannot switch in without being swiftly 2HKOed. Chansey and Blissey, the ultimate special walls, are both cleanly 2HKOed if Charizard carries Choice Specs. Without an immunity to Fire-type attacks or the ability to change the weather, stopping Charizard can be extremely difficult.</p>

    <p>While Fire Blast is unquestionably Charizard's most powerful attack, there will be occasions when another move is required. Air Slash has less than half the power of Fire Blast with the sun up, but it gives Charizard a more reliable, accurate STAB attack to fall back on when you cannot afford a miss or when the weather has been changed; it is also Charizard's best option against Chandelure. Focus Blast is crucial, as it allows Charizard to always at least 2HKO Tyranitar and Heatran, both of which would otherwise counter Charizard completely. Finally, Hidden Power Ice covers troublesome Dragon-types, especially Dragonite. Keep in mind that a neutral sun-boosted Fire Blast is more than twice as powerful as any of the other moves on this set, so unless you predict a switch to Tyranitar, Politoed, or a Pokemon with Flash Fire or a 4x weakness to Ice-type attacks, Fire Blast will almost always be the best choice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>SolarBeam can replace Air Slash in order to hit Water-types harder, notably OHKOing revenge killers such as Starmie and Azumarill on the switch. Being locked into SolarBeam is extremely risky if the opponent possesses a weather changer, however, as it allows them to freely set up while Charizard is forced to waste a turn charging up. Because of this, SolarBeam should never be used while the opponent has a healthy Politoed, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, or Abomasnow. Nevertheless, it is still a powerful option worth considering for a moveslot, especially since Charizard depends so much on sunlight anyway; whether it has SolarBeam or not, Charizard will have a hard time sweeping so long as the opponent can change the weather at will. If you decide SolarBeam isn't worth the trouble, Hidden Power Grass is a much safer option to hit certain Water-types. Defensive Politoed is 2HKOed with Choice Specs, and Pokemon such as Omastar and Kabutops are easily OHKOed. However, most other Water-types take almost as much damage from Fire Blast as they do from Hidden Power Grass, and without Hidden Power Ice, Charizard will struggle to beat Dragonite.</p>

    <p>Choice Scarf is generally the best item for Charizard; even without a damage-boosting item, Fire Blast is powerful enough to OHKO a huge portion of the metagame, so increasing Charizard's Speed is much more important. However, Choice Specs can help Charizard 2HKO some of its most durable checks, such as Blissey, Chansey, and Kingdra. Modest is the recommended nature with a Choice Scarf, as there are very few other Choice Scarf users around Charizard's Speed tier that a Speed-boosting nature would allow it to beat, and the additional power aids Charizard against certain bulky Water-types, such as Jellicent and Tentacruel. With Choice Specs, Timid is the optimal choice to ensure at least a tie with other Pokemon with 100 base Speed, although Modest does guarantee a 2HKO on Chansey. Regardless of item and nature, the EV spread is simple: Charizard is an all-out offensive Pokemon, so 252 EVs each are placed in Special Attack and Speed, with the remaining point going towards Special Defense to avoid making Charizard's HP even. Investing in bulk is an utter waste, as Solar Power will quickly ruin any semblance of durability Charizard has.</p>

    <p>Charizard's effectiveness rises and sets with the sun, so Drought support from Ninetales is absolutely essential, and eliminating opposing weather changers quickly is critical. While Charizard's Fire Blast will keep Hippowdon and Abomasnow at bay, Tyranitar and Politoed are trickier to deal with. Venusaur can slice through both with its STAB Grass-type moves and is an excellent Drought sweeper in its own right, making it a fantastic partner for Charizard. If you need a surefire way to remove specific threats, Wobbuffet can trap and defeat Politoed and physical Tyranitar.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is a huge problem for Charizard; the instant loss of 50% of its HP combined with the residual damage from Solar Power drastically reduces its lifespan and ensures it can only come into the match one time. Furthermore, Ninetales and several other Pokemon commonly found on Drought teams are also weak to Stealth Rock, making Rapid Spin or Magic Bounce support vital. Unfortunately, many of the best Rapid Spin users in OU do not enjoy permanent sunlight, but Claydol, Donphan, and Hitmontop are all decent choices; the former two enjoy the weakening of Water-type attacks that Drought brings, while Hitmontop's Fighting-type STAB allows it to check Tyranitar and Heatran effectively. Charizard also appreciates Wish support to help counteract the effect of Solar Power. Chansey and Blissey can completely restore Charizard's HP with a single Wish, but Vaporeon should also be considered for its ability to set up Wishes on Politoed easily.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>If locking Charizard into an attack is an unappealing prospect, there are several other items that Charizard can equip. Expert Belt increases the power of super effective hits and can fool the opponent into thinking Charizard is using the standard Choice set, which may allow Charizard to surprise and defeat its own counters. Life Orb provides a more consistent power boost and makes Charizard extremely difficult to switch into, but the associated recoil in conjunction with Solar Power will add up very quickly. Leftovers may seem like an odd choice on such a blatantly offensive Pokemon, but it can prolong a sweep by offsetting the residual damage from Solar Power somewhat. Although these alternatives may all seem tempting, remember that the vast majority of Pokemon are hit harder by Fire Blast than any of Charizard's other moves; once its few specific checks have been eliminated, there is little reason to use any other move, so the ability to switch attacks becomes less valuable compared to the powerful upgrades given by Choice Scarf and Choice Specs.</p>

    <p>While Fire Blast's combination of power and consistency generally makes it Charizard's best STAB option, Flamethrower and Overheat can be useful replacements in certain situations. Flamethrower is significantly less powerful than Fire Blast, but it does have perfect accuracy; an untimely miss could easily bring an end to Charizard's sweep, so Flamethrower is an acceptable alternative if you fear Lady Luck. On the other hand, Overheat's initial power is extraordinary, granting Charizard some additional OHKOs that it could not otherwise guarantee, such as against Starmie with Choice Scarf and Latios with Choice Specs. However, Overheat's secondary effect typically makes it a poor option, as Charizard is not a Pokemon that enjoys switching in and out of the field repeatedly.</p>

    <p>Charizard has access to numerous boosting moves, including Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Flame Charge, and Belly Drum. While a physical set taking advantage of these moves could catch an opponent off guard, Charizard will rarely find an opportunity to safely set up, and even if it does, its low Attack and middling Speed will prevent it from sweeping effectively. Roost and Dragon Pulse round out Charizard's movepool; the former would be useful to restore HP lost to Solar Power, and the latter would give Charizard a more powerful option against Latios, Latias, and Kingdra. Unfortunately, both are illegal with Solar Power.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The simplest way to counter Charizard is to ensure Stealth Rock is set up on its side of the field. With this accomplished, Charizard will be limited to a single sweeping opportunity; as soon as it switches out, it becomes nothing more than death fodder. As far as Pokemon go, Politoed is undoubtedly Charizard's worst nightmare. Simply by switching in and activating Drizzle, it cuts Fire Blast's power by over 75%. If Charizard is carrying Choice Specs, Air Slash or Hidden Power Grass can 2HKO offensive versions of Politoed, but Politoed can simply use a Choice Scarf to outspeed and OHKO Charizard with Surf. Tyranitar similarly removes Charizard's Solar Power boost and brushes off Fire-type attacks, but it must be wary of Focus Blast, which has a decent chance of OHKOing even the most specially defensive variants. Note that while Hippowdon and Abomasnow can also disrupt Charizard by changing the weather, Fire Blast will 2HKO and OHKO them respectively anyway, so switching them into Charizard should be a last resort.</p>

    <p>Heatran and Chandelure both love coming in to absorb Fire Blast, as Flash Fire and sunlight will boost the power of their own Fire-type attacks to incredible levels. However, Charizard can 2HKO each with the appropriate coverage move. Thanks to Multiscale, Dragonite can come in on Fire Blast and paralyze Charizard, but it will take heavy damage in the process, and Hidden Power Ice will easily 2HKO it. Azumarill, Kabutops, and Carracosta can live through Fire Blast and KO a weakened Charizard with Aqua Jet despite the sun. Plenty of Choice Scarf users can outspeed Charizard and revenge kill it, especially as residual damage from Solar Power racks up. Intelligent prediction is very important when facing Charizard; it only has a limited number of turns to dish out as much damage as possible, so just a couple of smart switches can be the difference between losing half your team and escaping unharmed.</p>
  2. Diana

    Diana This isn't even my final form
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,394
    Wouldn't an STAB Fire Blast in the sun be more powerful than a supereffective Focus Blast if you're hitting Blissey with Specs?
  3. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,159
    Yeah, my mistake. Fixed.
  4. Benlisted

    Benlisted

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,058
    Looks nice, good job on identifying Zard doesn't work too well without a Choice item, unlike many people seem to think.

    I'd advise Modest on the Scarf set simply because you lose a lot of power on your non-fire moves without specs. Aside from that and a mention of the MB users as teammates along with Wish support for if SR is up, I can't see anything else you may want to add.
  5. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,159
    Added mentions of the above, thanks Benlisted! I'm keeping Timid as the main slash even for Scarf because I did some calcs and found very few times where Modest gets an important KO that Timid wouldn't, but if anyone has some good examples let me know.
  6. Bloo

    Bloo
    is a Tutoris a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris Smogon Frontier's Pike Queenis a Past WCoP Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier
    Head TD

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,729
    This looks good, Honko. Though, here's a suggestion or two for you:

    [SET]
    name: Solar Power
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Air Slash
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    ability: Solar Power
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    That's how I'd like to see the set look.

    1. Air Slash is now a main option; gives you a secondary STAB move that has 1) More PP than Fire Blast 2) More accuracy (which can prove useful in certain situations if you don't want to risk missing) and 3) Gives Charizard a move that he can use outside of Sun.
    2. Removed SolarBeam as a main option; SolarBeam on a choice Charizard is iffy. I'm concerned about Tyranitar coming in, changing the weather, and killing Charizard as it charges up its SolarBeam. You can mention SolarBeam in AC while explaining the risks of using it with a choice item.
    Lastly, I'd like to see the following items mentioned in OO: Leftovers, Life Orb, and Expert Belt. The reasoning for this is self explanatory. Life Orb for more power (but more HP loss in conjunction with Solar Power), Leftovers for a bit of HP recovery, and Expert Belt for feigning a choice set and powering up super effective moves.

    Other than that, thanks for volunteering to take over this analysis. I'm sure you'll do a great job!

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  7. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,154
    Nice analysis, i've got a tiny nitpick though. Why is timid the main option over modest? Yes the ability to outspeed base 90-99 (& tying with base 100) is nice, but those types of Pokemon are extremely rare. I think the 2 most prominent scarfers that fall into that category are Haxorus & Hydreigon, both of whom run Modest anyway. Without Modest, you lose the ability to reliably 2HKO Chansey with Fire Blast, and you cannot 2HKO standard Jellicent either. Please reconsider.

    Bloo covered pretty much everything else.

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  8. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,159
    Alright, changes made. Thanks guys!
  9. Iconic

    Iconic
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,888
    :happybrain:

    QC Approved 3/3
  10. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,159
    Thanks Iconic! Will start writing this up soon.
  11. Benlisted

    Benlisted

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,058
    Just something to perhaps mention when you talk about SolarBeam in other options or wherever: imo SolarBeam is more viable a choice on Zard than on most other Sun abusers, since he is very much neutered out of Sun to the extent that you really wouldn't want to be using him outside of it much if at all. Add onto this that he does have the ability to deal with Hippo and TTar with Fire and Focus Blast, and it can prove useful for him.

    However, like Bloo says the whole locking yourself in thing is still horrible, I just thought you may want to discourage it a little less than in other analyses because of how Sun reliant Zard is intially.
  12. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,703
    Deletions
    Additions / Corrections
    Comments


    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Ever since its debut as the mascot of Pokemon Red, Charizard has always been a fan favorite, but it's never quite been able to keep up with the standards in competitive play. Last generation was particularly rough for Charizard, with the prevalence of Stealth Rock causing the fiery dragon to fall all the way to NU. Thankfully, the Dream World brings Charizard a much-needed upgrade: Solar Power, its new ability, gives Charizard unprecedented power in sunlight, which can easily be arranged thanks to the introduction of Drought Ninetales. Charizard is predictable, frail, and heavily reliant on support from its teammates, but when the conditions are right, it can demolish teams with terrifying ease.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Solar Power
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Air Slash
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    ability: Solar Power
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>When the sun is shining, Solar Power instantly transforms Charizard into one of the most lethal special attackers in the game. Fire Blast receives the equivalent of three STAB boosts, making it a devastatingly powerful move that can quickly reduce an opponent's team to ashes. Even bulky Pokemon that resist Fire-type attacks, such as Latias and Jellicent, cannot switch in without being swiftly 2HKOed. Chansey and Blissey, the ultimate special walls, are both cleanly 2HKOed if Charizard carries Choice Specs. Without an immunity to Fire-type attacks or the ability to change the weather, stopping Charizard can be extremely difficult.</p>

    <p>While Fire Blast is unquestionably Charizard's most powerful attack, there will be occasions when another move is required. Air Slash has less than half the power of Fire Blast with the sun up, but it gives Charizard a more reliable, accurate STAB attack to fall back on when you cannot afford a miss or when the weather has been changed; it is also Charizard's best option against Chandelure. Focus Blast is crucial, as it allows Charizard to 2HKO even the most specially defensive variants of Tyranitar and Heatran, both of which would otherwise counter Charizard completely. Finally, Hidden Power Ice covers troublesome Dragon-types, Garchomp and Dragonite in particular. Keep in mind that a neutral sun-boosted Fire Blast is more than twice as powerful as any of the other moves on this set, so unless you predict a switch to Tyranitar, Politoed, or a Pokemon with Flash Fire or a double 4x weakness to Ice-type attacks, Fire Blast will almost always be the best choice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>SolarBeam can replace Air Slash in order to hit Water-types harder, notably OHKOing would-be revenge killers Starmie and Azumarill revenge killers such as Starmie and Azumarill. Being locked into SolarBeam is extremely risky if the opponent possesses a weather changer, however, as it allows them to freely set up while Charizard is forced to waste a turn charging up. Because of this, SolarBeam should never be used while the opponent has a healthy Politoed, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, or Abomasnow. Nevertheless, it is still a powerful option worth considering for a moveslot, especially since Charizard depends so much on sunlight anyway; whether it has SolarBeam or not, Charizard will have a hard time sweeping so long as the opponent can change the weather at will. If you decide SolarBeam isn't worth the trouble, Hidden Power Grass is a much safer option to hit certain Water-types. Defensive Politoed is 2HKOed with Choice Specs, and Pokemon such as Omastar and Kabutops are easily OHKOed. However, most other Water-types take almost as much damage from Fire Blast as they do from Hidden Power Grass, and without Hidden Power Ice, Charizard will struggle against Dragonite and Garchomp.</p>

    <p>Choice Scarf is generally the best item for Charizard; even without a damage-boosting item, Fire Blast is already powerful enough to OHKO a huge portion of the metagame, so increasing Charizard's Speed is much more important. However, Choice Specs can help Charizard 2HKO some of its most durable checks, such as Blissey, Chansey, and Kingdra. Modest is the recommended nature with a Choice Scarf, as there are very few other Choice Scarf Pokemon users around Charizard's Speed tier that a Speed-boosting nature would allow it to beat, and the additional power aids Charizard against certain bulky Water-types, such as Jellicent and Tentacruel. With Choice Specs, Timid is the optimal choice to ensure at least a tie with other 100 base Speed Pokemon with 100 base Speed,although Modest does guarantee a 2HKO on a fully healthy Chansey. Regardless of item and nature, the EV spread is simple: Charizard is an all-out offensive Pokemon, so 252 EVs each are placed in Special Attack and Speed, with the remaining point going towards Special Defense to avoid making Charizard's HP even. Investing in bulk is an utter waste, as Solar Power will quickly ruin any semblance of durability Charizard has.</p>

    <p>Charizard's effectiveness rises and sets with the sun, so Drought support from Ninetales is absolutely essential, and eliminating opposing weather changers quickly is critical. While Charizard's Fire Blast will keep Hippowdon and Abomasnow at bay, Tyranitar and Politoed are trickier to deal with. Venusaur can slice through both with its STAB Grass-type moves and is an excellent Drought sweeper in its own right, making it a fantastic partner for Charizard. If you need a more surefire way to remove specific threats, Wobbuffet can trap and defeat Politoed and non-mixed Tyranitar.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is a huge problem for Charizard; the instant loss of 50% of its HP combined with the residual damage from Solar Power drastically reduces its lifespan and ensures it can only come into the match one time. Furthermore, Ninetales and several other Pokemon commonly found on Drought teams are also weak to Stealth Rock, making Rapid Spin or Magic Bounce support vitally important. Unfortunately, many of the best spinners Rapid Spin users do not enjoy permanent sunlight, but Claydol, Donphan, and Hitmontop are all decent choices; the former two enjoy the weakening of Water-type attacks that Drought brings, while Hitmontop's Fighting-type STAB allows it to check Tyranitar and Heatran effectively. Charizard also appreciates Wish support to help counteract the effect of Solar Power. Chansey and Blissey can completely restore Charizard's HP with a single Wish, but Vaporeon should also be considered for its ability to set up Wishes on Politoed easily.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>If locking Charizard into an attack is an unappealing prospect, there are several other items that Charizard can equip. Expert Belt increases the power of super effective hits and can fool the opponent into thinking Charizard is using the standard Choice set, which may allow Charizard to surprise and defeat its own counters. Life Orb provides a more consistent power boost and makes Charizard extremely difficult to switch into, but the associated recoil in conjunction with Solar Power will add up very quickly. Leftovers may seem like an odd choice on such a blatantly offensive Pokemon, but it can prolong a sweep by offsetting the residual damage from Solar Power somewhat. Although these alternatives may all seem tempting, remember that the vast majority of Pokemon are hit harder by Fire Blast than any of Charizard's other moves; once its few specific checks have been eliminated, there is little reason to use any other move, so the ability to switch attacks becomes less valuable compared to the powerful upgrades given by Choice Scarf and Choice Specs.</p>

    <p>While Fire Blast's combination of power and consistency generally makes it Charizard's best STAB option, Flamethrower and Overheat can be useful replacements in certain situations. Flamethrower is significantly less powerful than Fire Blast, but it does have perfect accuracy; an untimely miss could easily bring an end to Charizard's sweep, so Flamethrower is an acceptable alternative if you fear Lady Luck. On the other hand, Overheat's initial power is extraordinary, granting Charizard some additional OHKOs it could not otherwise guarantee, such as against Starmie with Choice Scarf and Latios with Choice Specs. However, Overheat's secondary effect typically makes it a poor option, as Charizard is not a Pokemon that enjoys switching in and out of the field repeatedly.</p>

    <p>Charizard has access to numerous boosting moves, including Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Flame Charge, and Belly Drum. While a physical set taking advantage of these moves could catch an opponent off-guard, Charizard will rarely find an opportunity to safely set up, and even if it does, its low Attack and middling Speed will prevent it from sweeping effectively. Roost and Dragon Pulse round out Charizard's movepool; the former would be useful to restore HP lost to Solar Power, and the latter would give Charizard a more powerful option against Latios, Latias, and Kingdra, but unfortunately, both are illegal with Solar Power.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The simplest way to counter Charizard is to ensure Stealth Rock is set up on its side of the field. With this accomplished, Charizard will be limited to a single opportunity to sweep; as soon as it switches out, it becomes nothing more than death fodder. As far as Pokemon go, Politoed is undoubtedly Charizard's worst nightmare. Simply by switching in and activating Drizzle, it cuts Fire Blast's power by over 75%. If Charizard is carrying Choice Specs, Air Slash or Hidden Power Grass can 2HKO offensive versions of Politoed, but Politoed can simply use a Choice Scarf to outspeed and OHKO Charizard with Surf. Tyranitar similarly removes Charizard's Solar Power boost and brushes off Fire-type attacks, but it must be wary of Focus Blast, which has a decent chance of OHKOing even the most specially defensive spreads. Note that while Hippowdon and Abomasnow can also disrupt Charizard by changing the weather, Fire Blast will 2HKO and OHKO them respectively anyway, so switching them into Charizard should only be done as a last resort.</p>

    <p>Heatran and Chandelure both love switching into Fire Blast, as Flash Fire and sunlight will boost the power of their own Fire-type attacks to incredible levels. However, Charizard can 2HKO each with the appropriate coverage move. Thanks to MultiScale, Dragonite can come in on Fire Blast and paralyze Charizard, but it will take heavy damage in the process, and Hidden Power Ice will easily 2HKO it. Azumarill, Kabutops, and Carracosta can live through Fire Blast and KO a weakened Charizard with Aqua Jet despite the sun. Plenty of Choice Scarf Pokemon users can outspeed Charizard and revenge kill it, especially as residual damage from Solar Power racks up. Intelligent prediction is very important when facing Charizard; it only has a limited number of turns to dish out as much damage as possible, so just a couple of smart switches can be the difference between losing half your team and escaping unharmed.</p>


    [​IMG]

    GP 1 / 2
  13. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,159
    Implemented. Thanks CP!
  14. Aeron Ee1

    Aeron Ee1 Nom nom nom
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    743
    Proofread (open)


    Changes in bold
    Removals in red
    Comments in bold red

    [Overview]

    <p>Ever since its debut as the mascot of Pokemon Red, Charizard has always been a fan favorite, but it's never quite been able to keep up with the standards in competitive play. Last generation was particularly rough for Charizard, with the prevalence of Stealth Rock causing the fiery dragon to fall all the way to NU. Thankfully, the Dream World brings Charizard a much-needed upgrade: Solar Power, its new ability, gives Charizard unprecedented power in sunlight, which can easily be arranged thanks to the introduction of Drought Ninetales. Charizard is predictable, frail, and heavily reliant on support from its teammates, but when the conditions are right it can demolish teams with terrifying ease.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Solar Power
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Air Slash
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    ability: Solar Power
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>When the sun is shining, Solar Power instantly transforms Charizard into one of the most lethal special attackers in the game. Fire Blast receives the equivalent of three STAB boosts, making it a devastatingly powerful move that can quickly reduce an opponent's team to ashes. Even bulky Pokemon that resist Fire-type attacks, such as Latios and Jellicent, cannot switch in without being swiftly 2HKOed. Chansey and Blissey, the ultimate special walls, are both cleanly 2HKOed if Charizard carries Choice Specs. Without an immunity to Fire-type attacks or the ability to change the weather, stopping Charizard can be extremely difficult.</p>

    <p>While Fire Blast is unquestionably Charizard's most powerful attack, there will be occasions when another move is required. Air Slash has less than half the power of Fire Blast with the sun up, but it gives Charizard a more reliable, accurate STAB attack to fall back on when you cannot afford a miss or when the weather has been changed; it is also Charizard's best option against Chandelure. Focus Blast is crucial, as it allows Charizard to always at least 2HKO even the most specially defensive variants of Tyranitar and Heatran, both of which would otherwise counter Charizard completely. Finally, Hidden Power Ice covers troublesome Dragon-types, Garchomp and Dragonite in particular. Keep in mind that a neutral sun-boosted Fire Blast is more than twice as powerful as any of the other moves on this set, so unless you predict a switch to Tyranitar, Politoed, or a Pokemon with Flash Fire or a 4x weakness to Ice-type attacks, Fire Blast will almost always be the best choice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>SolarBeam can replace Air Slash in order to hit Water-types harder, notably OHKOing revenge killers such as Starmie and Azumarill on the switch. Being locked into SolarBeam is extremely risky if the opponent possesses a weather changer, however, as it allows them to freely set up while Charizard is forced to waste a turn charging up. Because of this, SolarBeam should never be used while the opponent has a healthy Politoed, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, or Abomasnow. Nevertheless, it is still a powerful option worth considering for a moveslot, especially since Charizard depends so much on sunlight anyway; whether it has SolarBeam or not, Charizard will have a hard time sweeping so long as the opponent can change the weather at will. If you decide SolarBeam isn't worth the trouble, Hidden Power Grass is a much safer option to hit certain Water-types. Defensive Politoed is 2HKOed with Choice Specs, and Pokemon such as Omastar and Kabutops are easily OHKOed. However, most other Water-types take almost as much damage from Fire Blast as they do from Hidden Power Grass, and without Hidden Power Ice, Charizard will struggle against Dragonite and Garchomp.</p>

    <p>Choice Scarf is generally the best item for Charizard; even without a damage-boosting item, Fire Blast is already powerful enough to OHKO a huge portion of the metagame, so increasing Charizard's Speed is much more important. However, Choice Specs can help Charizard 2HKO some of its most durable checks, such as Blissey, Chansey, and Kingdra. Modest is the recommended nature with a Choice Scarf, as there are very few other Choice Scarf users around Charizard's Speed tier that a Speed-boosting nature would allow it to beat, and the additional power aids Charizard against certain bulky Water-types, such as Jellicent and Tentacruel. With Choice Specs, Timid is the optimal choice to ensure at least a tie with other Pokemon with 100 base Speed, although Modest does guarantee a 2HKO on a fully healthy Chansey. Regardless of item and nature, the EV spread is simple: Charizard is an all-out offensive Pokemon, so 252 EVs each are placed in Special Attack and Speed, with the remaining point going towards Special Defense to avoid making Charizard's HP even. Investing in bulk is an utter waste, as Solar Power will quickly ruin any semblance of durability Charizard has.</p>

    <p>Charizard's effectiveness rises and sets with the sun (nice), so Drought support from Ninetales is absolutely essential, and eliminating opposing weather changers quickly is critical. While Charizard's Fire Blast will keep Hippowdon and Abomasnow at bay, Tyranitar and Politoed are trickier to deal with. Venusaur can slice through both with its STAB Grass-type moves and is an excellent Drought sweeper in its own right, making it a fantastic partner for Charizard. If you need a more surefire way to remove specific threats, Wobbuffet can trap and defeat Politoed and non-mixed Tyranitar.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock is a huge problem for Charizard; the instant loss of 50% of its HP combined with the residual damage from Solar Power drastically reduces its lifespan and ensures it can only come into the match one time. Furthermore, Ninetales and several other Pokemon commonly found on Drought teams are also weak to Stealth Rock, making Rapid Spin or Magic Bounce support vitally important. Unfortunately, many of the best Rapid Spin users in OU do not enjoy permanent sunlight, but Claydol, Donphan, and Hitmontop are all decent choices; the former two enjoy the weakening of Water-type attacks that Drought brings, while Hitmontop's Fighting-type STAB allows it to check Tyranitar and Heatran effectively. Charizard also appreciates Wish support to help counteract the effect of Solar Power. Chansey and Blissey can completely restore Charizard's HP with a single Wish, but Vaporeon should also be considered for its ability to set up Wishes on Politoed easily.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>If locking Charizard into an attack is an unappealing prospect, there are several other items that Charizard can equip. Expert Belt increases the power of super effective hits and can fool the opponent into thinking Charizard is using the standard Choice set, which may allow Charizard to surprise and defeat its own counters. Life Orb provides a more consistent power boost and makes Charizard extremely difficult to switch into, but the associated recoil in conjunction with Solar Power will add up very quickly. Leftovers may seem like an odd choice on such a blatantly offensive Pokemon, but it can prolong a sweep by offsetting the residual damage from Solar Power somewhat. Although these alternatives may all seem tempting, remember that the vast majority of Pokemon are hit harder by Fire Blast than any of Charizard's other moves; once its few specific checks have been eliminated, there is little reason to use any other move, so the ability to switch attacks becomes less valuable compared to the powerful upgrades given by Choice Scarf and Choice Specs.</p>

    <p>While Fire Blast's combination of power and consistency generally makes it Charizard's best STAB option, Flamethrower and Overheat can be useful replacements in certain situations. Flamethrower is significantly less powerful than Fire Blast, but it does have perfect accuracy; an untimely miss could easily bring an end to Charizard's sweep, so Flamethrower is an acceptable alternative if you fear Lady Luck. On the other hand, Overheat's initial power is extraordinary, granting Charizard some additional OHKOs it could not otherwise guarantee, such as against Starmie with Choice Scarf and Latios with Choice Specs (assuming the sun is up for both). However, Overheat's secondary effect typically makes it a poor option, as Charizard is not a Pokemon that enjoys switching in and out of the field repeatedly.</p>

    <p>Charizard has access to numerous boosting moves, including Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Flame Charge, and Belly Drum. While a physical set taking advantage of these moves could catch an opponent off guard, Charizard will rarely find an opportunity to safely set up, and even if it does, its low Attack and middling Speed will prevent it from sweeping effectively. Roost and Dragon Pulse round out Charizard's movepool; the former would be useful to restore HP lost to Solar Power, and the latter would give Charizard a more powerful option against Latios, Latias, and Kingdra. Unfortunately, both are illegal with Solar Power.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The simplest way to counter Charizard is to ensure Stealth Rock is set up on its side of the field. With this accomplished, Charizard will be limited to a single opportunity to sweep; as soon as it switches out, it becomes nothing more than death fodder. As far as Pokemon go, Politoed is undoubtedly Charizard's worst nightmare. Simply by switching in and activating Drizzle, it cuts Fire Blast's power by over 75%. If Charizard is carrying Choice Specs, Air Slash or Hidden Power Grass can 2HKO offensive versions of Politoed, but Politoed can simply use a Choice Scarf to outspeed and OHKO Charizard with Surf. Tyranitar similarly removes Charizard's Solar Power boost and brushes off Fire-type attacks, but it must be wary of Focus Blast, which has a decent chance of OHKOing even the most specially defensive spreads. Note that while Hippowdon and Abomasnow can also disrupt Charizard by changing the weather, Fire Blast will 2HKO and OHKO them respectively anyway, so switching them into Charizard should only be done as a last resort.</p>

    <p>Heatran and Chandelure both love switching into Fire Blast, as Flash Fire and sunlight will boost the power of their own Fire-type attacks to incredible levels. However, Charizard can 2HKO each with the appropriate coverage move. Thanks to Multiscale, Dragonite can come in on Fire Blast and paralyze Charizard, but it will take heavy damage in the process, and Hidden Power Ice will easily 2HKO it. Azumarill, Kabutops, and Carracosta can live through Fire Blast and KO a weakened Charizard with Aqua Jet despite the sun. Plenty of Choice Scarf users can outspeed Charizard and revenge kill it, especially as residual damage from Solar Power racks up. Intelligent prediction is very important when facing Charizard; it only has a limited number of turns to dish out as much damage as possible, so just a couple of smart switches can be the difference between losing half your team and escaping unharmed.</p>


    [​IMG] (2/2)
  15. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,780
    GP 2/2

    edit - ninjad - this is why you use placeholders. Since we both basically found nothing I suppose it doesnt do much harm
  16. Honko

    Honko
    is a Programmeris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,159
    Thanks Aeron and jc! All done now.
  17. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    744
    Obviously i need a spinner if i want to use it, i like the first moveset, but is better Timid Specs or Modest Scarf? The first has a very good SpAtk, but the second is very more quicker
  18. Dragontrainer

    Dragontrainer

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    i have been use choice specs modest charizard(with fireblas/air slash/dragon pulse/ focus blast) without problems, i use it to counter ferrothrom, celebi, breloom, machamp, scizor, skarmory and some others things that don't hope that charizard could counter like heartran, some dragons and even tyranitar. the secret is make charizard sweep unpredictable pokemons, not only put it in front of bugs or plants, of course if you want a bigger security a spinner support is need but this type of support is good for all team not only charizard. i think that his worst enemy is a excadrill in a sandstorm and of course bulk waters. you know, fire pokemon don't have a long live in batte, so, if you can take off 3 pokemons of the field, you made a good job with it. It is true guys Charizard can be used! :Da
  19. relix

    relix

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    14
    I use a similar set, and found out that Charizard doesn't need Sun to be a threat, but it is a lot stronger with it. The one thing I despise about using Zard in the sun is that it usually has terrible synergy with the rest of the team, and it becomes utter crap without when outside of the sun. At times like these I just wish that Charizard's Sp. Atk and Speed were swapped
  20. aaulions20

    aaulions20

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    This maybe a little off topic, but what was Charizard's tier before gen 4?
  21. Saladbagle

    Saladbagle

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    45
    NU in Gen 4.
    BL for the other 3 I believe.

    Haxorus with Modest is lol.
  22. zahariel

    zahariel

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    When Gen V first released I used a Suicide-Charizard set-up that would, quite literally, be able to sweep entire teams if SR wasn't set.

    Name: Blaze of Glory
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Solar Beam
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Hidden Power Ground
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Solar Power
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


    Why LO? Well, simply put, the power it gives this thing destroys everything in its path, literally allowing you to sweep entire teams that are not prepared even if you die doing it. This Charizard will literally go out in a blaze of glory. Fire Blast is the only move I agree with on the last set for many obvious reasons. Solar Beam is the obvious choice to counter Bulky Waters trying to outlast you. Dragon Pulse behind Solar Power with LO is more than enough to take out any dragon, and I've done so successfully many times. Tyranitar wasn't in heavy use when I tested HP Ground (and the loss of Sun would serve as a problem for damage), but it can definitely OHKO Heatran and Chandelure (who may be thinking you're going to be choice-locked, but alas you are not).

    Obvious choices to team up with this guy are Drought-Ninetails, a Chlorophyll Sweeper (Venusaur obviously a great one, but anyone with Sleep Powder will be a huge annoyance), a rapid-spinner (I happen to think Starmie and Tentacruel are good choices because they'll thrive if you run into rain and are still good support with Starmie's Boltbeam and Tentacruel's access to Toxic Spikes), and a Magic Bouncer (Probably Espeon since you don't want to have a lot of flying in a meta filled with Electric and Ice moves).

    Obviously, Priority would be a big problem for this set, but I don't see anyone stupid enough to stay in on a priority move with this set.
  23. AasTmO

    AasTmO

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    154
    As noted in the analysis and the comments, Dragon Pulse and SolarBeam are left out for reasons. DP is illegal, SB is not the primary option due to weather changers. HP Ground should deserve a mention somewhere IMO.
  24. TehBazzard

    TehBazzard

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    7
    A good partner with Charizard is Donphan. He'll be able to tank more Water moves thanks to the prevalent sun, resists the buffed up Fire moves in the weather, and can utilize Rapid Spin to clear away Rocks, as well set up his own, which may help nab 'Zard here some key OH and 2HKOs. Donphan lures in Grass moves, which Charizard actually doesn't mind taking. However, they share a Water weakness; easily patchable with the multitude of Sun abusing Grass-Types.

    I think that should be added as it is more in-depth than the section you have with Spinners being good teammates.
  25. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    I would AT LEAST slash Flamethrower with HP Ice. HP Ice is actually pointless, as your fire moves in the sun with Solar Power 1-2HKO everything anyway.. (Fire Blast from Specs OHKOs Max HP Dragonite with SR for example). Flamethrower gives a more reliable sweeping option. With Specs, Fire Blast is actually usually overkill, Flamethrower is sufficient enough.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)