Charizard [QC 2/3] writing

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restarted from scratch as any other analysis and completely rewritten by me
taken over from trc



[OVERVIEW]

Blessed with being the only Pokemon in OU with two mega evolutions, Charizard has found both of its mega evolutions to be a top-tier threats. The first forme, Mega Charizard X, is arguably one of the best Pokemon in the metagame and is known to be one of the best Dragon Dancers in the entire tier, and it's not hard to see why; the combination of base 130 Attack and essentially a 1.33 boost on both of its main STABs thanks to Tough Claws allow it to OHKO most things at +1 with STAB Flare Blitz, allowing it to sweep almost effortlessly through teams, especially given how easy it is to set up with such a great typing defensively. Furthermore, Mega Charizard X can utilize its amazing typing, bulk, and wide movepool to be very unpredictable; it can run a variety of sets, including a defensive set that utilizes Will-O-Wisp, or even a double dance set that consists of both Swords Dance or Tailwind to bring the pain on both defensive or offensive teams, respectively. Given all these traits, Mega Charizard X is simply one of the best Pokemon in OU and offers a lot as a mega evolution.

The second forme, Mega Charizard Y, is the most powerful wallbreaker in OU. At first glance, Mega Charizard Y's amazing Fire STAB and base 159 Special Attack in itself may make it appear to be a powerful wallbreaker. However, Mega Charizard Y's claim to fame is its ability Drought. Because of Drought, STAB Fire Blast boosted by the sun in tandem with a base 159 Special Attack allow it OHKO or severely dent a ridiculous amount of things. Another selling point of Mega Charizard Y is that with sun being constantly active when Charizard Y is in play, Solar Beam is a base 120 Grass attack that takes only one turn to use; this means water-types are horrible checks to Mega Charizard Y and are simply targets. With Focus Blast rounding out the coverage, most of the metagame is in huge danger to Mega Charizard Y bar a select few which are still easy to pressure - this is mostly limited to most opposing Dragon-types (Latios and Latias, Dragonite, Mega Altaria, and bulky Mega Charizard X), and dedicated special walls such as Chansey and Cresselia. All of the aforementioned Pokemon are all very easy to take advantage of; with the use of stallbreakers and pursuit trappers, it is easy enough to clear a path for Mega Charizard Y. Outside of these mentioned Pokemon, Mega Charizard Y simply will dent every time it comes in, granted it can hit. If your team lacks a wallbreaker, Charizard Y will not dissapoint.

However, both of these Mega Evolutions and Charizard itself to an extent suffer from a grand amount of flaws. For one, Charizard's quadruple Stealth Rock weakness severely hinders it from executing its job effectively. The mere fact that half of its health is shredded off each time it comes in with Stealth Rock on the field makes it extremely easy to exploit - it is very easy to take advantage of this, with the use of priority or faster attackers that can finish off at such low health. To add insult to injury, Charizard's base 100 Speed for both formes is no more than good and leaves it outpaced in such a quick metagame. This is especially bad with such a hindering weakness to Stealth Rock given that it can be easily outsped and KOd after Stealth Rock damage a good portion of the time. Mega Charizard Y is an extremely easy Pokemon to pressure; while it OHKOes an absurd amount of Pokemon, but often it can be outsped and KOd by faster Pokemon unless it switches out, which can ruin the momentum at times. Mega Charizard X, on the other hand, is worn down very quickly between Stealth Rock, Flare Blitz recoil, and general miscellaneous damage. This makes it harder to sweep and wallbreak to an extent. However, despite these flaws, Charizard is no less than a meta-defining Pokemon, and should be looked at as such.

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Flare Blitz
move 3: Dragon Claw
move 4: Roost / Earthquake
ability: Blaze
item: Charizardite X
evs: 104 HP / 220 Atk / 184 Spe
nature: Jolly

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Dragon Dance is the bread and butter of this set; one of the reasons Mega Charizard X is so feared as a sweeper is simply because of this move. At +1, Mega Charizard becomes very hard to keep under control due to the high damage output it provides. Flare Blitz in tandem with Tough Claws provides ridiculous damage output, capable of OHKOing many things at +0 and denting literally everything in the metagame at +1. To give a measure of its power, +0 Flare Blitz matches the power of +2 Adamant Garchomp Dragon Claw. Dragon Claw provides the feared Dragon/Fire coverage and is a safe option to use against Water-types as well as when the user wishes to avoid recoil. In the last slot, Roost is an option to keep healthy and mitigate Flare Blitz recoil as well as avoid Sucker Punch mindgames, while Earthquake allows Mega Charizard X to beat Heatran and bulky variants of Tyranitar. Fire Punch is an option over Flare Blitz if recoil tends to be a problem, but is seriously not advised due to the horrible damage outputs that come out of it.

Set Details
========

The EVs may seem a bit sketchy, but the current spread is the most effective and standard; 184 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature allow Mega Charizard X to outspeed Jolly Choice Scarf Landorus-T after a Dragon Dance while OHKOing it after Stealth Rock damage. However, there are some other viable spreads that this set can run. 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe with a Jolly nature accomplishes what the spread above does as well as outpacing most Kyurem-B before using Dragon Dance as well as every variant running a Choice Scarf. The standard 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe with an Adamant or Jolly nature is completely viable as well. Blaze is the chosen ability before Mega Evolving despite being very situational as Solar Power would accomplish nothing other than reducing HP at times.

Usage Tips
========

It's best to set up Dragon Dance towards the end of the game when Mega Charizard X's checks and counters are out of play or are weakened enough to be picked off after a boost. It's best to set up on things that aren't able to do much to you. For instance, Rotom-W is an easy target to set up on as it can't 2HKO with Hydro Pump and is stalled out with Roost, while Mega Manectric is just walled completely. Take advantage of when you should Mega Evolve; one example would be against Latios after it uses Draco Meteor. Not mega evolving allows you to safely set up Dragon Dance on it while not being OHKOed. Another example would be against non-Thunder Wave Thundurus. Mega Charizard X sets up with ease thanks to its neutrality to Hidden Power Ice and resistance to Thunderbolt. Another option when using Mega Charizard X is to have teammates that better accommodate Mega Charizard Y to bluff it and change how the opponent plays.

Team Options
========

Having hazard removal is an absolute must, as having half health off makes a huge difference in the game. Excadrill is the best option for this, as it can remove hazards with Rapid Spin, preserving your rocks, and has good synergy in general. Latios can nuke the opposition while using options such as Tailwind and Memento to prepare for a sweep. Mew can support with Defog and Mega Charizard X can absorb Knock Off for it.
  • Hazard removal is a MUST. Half of your health off makes a huge difference. Excadrill is the best option as it has good synergy and can still preserve your rocks. Lati@s also have amazing wallbreaking potential as well; latios is a great nuke with tailwind and memento to prepare for a zard sweep and latias can defog and use healing wish. Mew can defog and Zard X can absorb Knock Off for it.
  • Diggersby, Terrakion, crawdaunt, and Keldeo can weaken Zard X's checks and counters so it sweepers easily.
  • Gothitelle traps anything that threatens Charizard X; Quagsire, Slowbro, and Hippowdon are all easy to remove from battle with Gothitelle.
  • Celebi can pass Substitute and has marvelous synergy.
  • Clefable provides Heal Bell support so Thundurus can't paralyze as easily, and also has great synergy.
  • Stealth Rock is crucial as it scores some KOs like +0 Flare Blitz KOing Landorus-T after rocks; defensive Landorus-T is the best partner as its synergy is amazing and can intimidate foes. landorus, hippowdon, and garchomp are all amazing partners as the former wallbreaks, and the latter two check physical attackers
  • Manaphy wallbreaks enough through hippowdon and azumarill with energy ball
  • Tangrowth counters most bulky ground types
  • chesnaught deals with sand offense
  • most fat waters in general can beat bulky ground types. aforementioned manaphy wallbreaks, slowking and slowbro can beat gross and keldeo
  • trappers such as dugtrio and wobbuffet are good to remove heatran and ttar if youre using roost
  • healing wish is great support as you can wallbreak early game and then sweep later. celebi is still a great partner for this as said earlier, but jirachi can set check mega altaria while latias can defog.
  • mega altaria and mega diancie can walk all over zard x; specially defensive skarm checks the latter, while bulky scizor can counter both depending on the former's set. jirachi still can provide sr support, healing wish, and checks both.
[SET]
name: Wallbreaker
move 1: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 2: Solar Beam
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Roost
ability: Blaze
item: Charizardite Y
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Fire Blast is STAB that is extremely powerful in the sun and is the main reason why Charizard Y is considered such an amazing wallbreaker
  • Flamethrower is a bit weaker but on the overall is much more reliable
  • Solar Beam is another reason why Charizard Y as it makes Water-types not be reliable checks because it's a 1 turn attack in sun
  • Focus Blast rounds out the coverage; Tyranitar becomes a target where it would otherwise be a good check, Heatran gets hit, is your best bet against opposing Fire-types, while also being able to hit less common things such as Houndoom, Empoleon, and Hydreigon.
  • Roost is great for a wallbreaker and lets you stay continuously healthy
  • Earthquake is a functional lure as it hits Heatran very hard, although Tyranitar is 3HKOed at best.
Set Details
========

  • Standard 252 / 252 offensive spread so you hit obscenely hard and are fast enough for a wallbreaker
  • Modest lets you reach your full potential and roast anything in your way; Timid lets you Speed tie with other base 100s and outspeeds max excadrill out of sand and max kyurem-b. Also lets you outspeed some base 100s that dont have a speed boosting nature like gard
  • fire blast on timid and flamethrower on modest just so you can have a good power balance
  • 216 speed evs let you outspeed kyurem-b if you just want some pinch bulk
Usage Tips
========

  • Basically just destroy everything with your nukes
  • Shines best early-mid game so teammates can clean up later
  • Don't sake Charizard Y as it will almost always be able to nuke Pokemon, even resists
  • The best way to play with Zard Y is by continuously applying offensive pressure with Zard Y and its teammates to the point where the team can't handle anymore
  • Double switching is the best way to get Zard Y in, or safe switches like BP Celebi.
  • Take advantage of the switches Zard Y forces, as switchins such as Chansey and the like can be stomped by Terrakion that switch in
  • It is extremely important to not bring in Zard Y if rocks are on the field. This makes it a bit more of a glass cannon and wasting turns to roost can be crucial.

Team Options
========

  • Stealth Rock is easily your biggest concern in terms of teammate support. Latias and Latios can use Defog; the former even provides Healing Wish support so you can play a bit recklessly, while the latter is a good enough nuke to pressure the opponent.
  • Excadrill and Starmie are spinners which can be ideal in cases where you appreciate the chip damage from your own Stealth Rock to function better as a wallbreaker. Excadrill also can beat chansey quite easily while Starmie can beat Specially Defensive Gyarados with Thunderbolt and Lati@s with Ice Beam
  • Mew is an option for teams who want a more consistent and reliable defogger
  • Excadrill like said above can also spin but can also take on Rock-type attacks as well as Landorus-T being able to handle Electric-type attacks while still chipping at the opposing team after Charizard dents them. AV Raikou also gets a mention for being a good check to Mega Manectric.
  • Pursuit support from Bisharp and TTar is cool because it lets you capture Lati@s and Bisharp can even knock off switchins or chansey's eviolite while trapping it
  • Celebi is a good partner as it can pass a Substitute or Nasty Plot and also provides a handy Rock- and Water- resist
  • Pink Blobs suck; Gothitelle traps both easily without letting them switchout and eliminates them. Terrakion, Bisharp, Scizor grabs momentum, Keldeo, and CB Tyranitar work really well at eliminating them.
  • Lati@s are easy stops to this set so trappers such as TTar and Bisharp can Pursuit them, and Bisharp deters Defog
  • TTar not only traps but ScarfTar and Exca can trap and clean up after Charizard has done its work

[SET]
name: Bulky Will-O-Wisp
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Earthquake / Dragon Claw
move 3: Flare Blitz
move 4: Roost
ability: Blaze
item: Charizardite X
evs: 248 HP / 24 Atk / 180 SpD / 56 Spe
nature: Adamant

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • beautiful typing and awesome bulk means a defensive set is viable
  • WoW cripples switchins like Lando-T and Azu and can avoid Sucker Punch
  • Earthquake so Heatran and TTar don't have a field day with you
  • Dragon Claw is a safe STAB
  • Flare Blitz breaks through many mons such as Mega Sableye and is just a great STAB
  • Roost is used for longevity so you can keep checking mons
  • Dragon Tail can phase

Set Details
========

  • Speed EVs let you outspeed Adamant 252 Mega Scizor
  • 248 HP gives it great overall bulk and an odd number for switchins
  • Adamant + 24 Attack EVs give you that extra damage
  • Rest in special defense to check Zard Y rotom-w and Thundurus better
  • 16 speed can outspeed Adamant bisharp and breloom
  • 80 Speed EVs outspeed Adamant Diggers
  • 108 Speed lets you outspeed jolly based 70s
  • Careful is an option cuz manaphy and better checking of certain mons

Usage Tips
========

  • Play this as a pivot bcuz good defenses
  • Basically take attacks from mons you wall and then wear them down
  • Since you lure in all your checks and counters be sure to lure them and cripple them with based WoW...this makes it easier for teammates like dd normal gyara to sweep
  • Play mega evolution to its advantages, not mega evolving in front of garchomp lets you burn it then mega evo (some are lum though)
  • Be sure to roost a lot because getting worn down is indeed possible

Team Options
========

  • HAZARD REMOVAL lati@s exca and mew are great. Exca is preferred because of its great synergy with Zard X and it also preserves your hazards which let you wear down opponents more.
  • Pair this with sweepers that hate physical walls; lum SD Garchomp is very good as a partner as it forms drag offense
  • Bulky Ground-types let you beat Terrakion, Tyranitar, and Excadrill which are ass to this set, Lando-T and hippo can set up SR to wear down switchins even more and are the premier ground-types in OU
  • Rotom-W provides a switch in to ground types and is amazing with synergy
  • Thundurus is a good option as it spread paralysis support to mons that are anal to this set (lati@s keldeo etc)
  • regenerator cores with mons of amoonguss and torn-t are great as this set works on balance and appreciate the pivot support zard x provides
[SET]
Swords Dance + Tailwind
########
name: Swords Dance + Tailwind
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Tailwind
move 3: Flare Blitz
move 4: Outrage
ability: Blaze
item: Charizardite X
evs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
nature: Adamant

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Swords Dance and Tailwind are the main boosting moves; Swords Dance destroys stall while Tailwind beats Offense
  • Flare Blitz is the main STAB, does ridiculous damage to everything
  • Outrage is great because it takes advantage the most of both boosting moves and can do ridiculous damage as well
  • Dragon Claw and Fire Punch are always safer but weaker options

Set Details
========

  • Speed lets you always outspeed neutral Kyurem-B and lets you outpaces really everything after Tailwind
  • 252+ adamant because the powah
  • hp because obv filler evs
  • item because mego evo
  • Tough claws is mandatory
  • Jolly is an option to outpseed jolly drill but the problem lies in the fact that azumarill cant be ohkoed after rocks
Usage Tips
========

  • use your boosting moves based on the opposing team; tailwind is for offense and sd is for stall
  • Try to always set up safely; be it on a mon that can't OHKO you or behind dual screens
  • Set up late-game when against offense and early-game against stall; however against offense you can be a functional early game wallbreaker with SD
  • Unaware mons and prankster twave mons should always be taken out first
  • Tailwind can be used as a support move to allow teammates to finish the deed against mons that give you trouble
  • don't use outrage recklessly

Team Options
========

  • since this set is usually on hyper offense dual screens is the best; azelf is easily the best at this cuz sr and boom boom but klefki can work
  • Need to get rid of unaware users; keldeo and celebi are gg to quagsire and scizor has great synergy and beats clefable. celebi is actually a better partner than keldeo because it can also pass subs to safely set up with
  • anti hazards pls. azelf can taunt but mew lat@s can defog and lati@s beat slowbro
  • diggersby, haxorus, chomp, crawdaunt all have excellent synergy and wear down opposing checks/counters
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

  • two mega stones give many options
  • Best bet at another set is mixed chary; flare blitz in sun lets you ohko most special tanks while eq can hit tran; dragon dance is a functional option with this set. this also adds surprise value. if this set is a wanted option, flare blitz, earthquake, solar beam, and roost is the preferred moveset. however, wallbreaking is a bit less effective because of a lower attack stat and for a wallbreaker it gets worn down much quicker.
  • Mega chary has some special moves. air slash is a STAB, but it is pretty weak and provides worse coverage, pretty much provides nothing. ancient power lets you beat most fire-types, other fire/flyings, and charizard x which thinks youre fodder; it's weak outside of this. dragon pulse can beat the latis and the rare gooda and mega ampharos, but it's pretty weak even then. overheat makes you an amazing wallbreaker, letting you ohko anything that does not resist or isnt chansey, but the special attack drop sucks, makes you fodder, and is bad on a sr weak mon.
  • mega charizard x can run 3 attacks with FB, DC, and EQ with roost, but it's pretty much outclassed by chary as a wallbreaker and even by special mega alt.
  • Charx can run thunder punch for azumarill and other misc moves for some target, but charx needs its moveslots so this is undesirable. iron tail is an option for mega altaria.
  • defog may seem like a good option on something with above average defensive stats but it obviously sucks cuz 4x weak
  • toxic on specially defensive is good over WoW to cripple some switchins
  • ancient power to beat spd talon and other chary
  • flame charge so tailwind's short turns dont screw you
Checks & Counters
===================

There are no Pokemon that completely hard counter Charizard, as it has such impressive stats and variance in its sets. It does have a variety of checks depending on the set though, which must be scouted first.

**Respective Defensive Pokemon**: While both of Charizard's Mega formers elicit different responses, they do in fact have defensive answers, albeit rather few. Mega Altaria is a solid check to both Mega Charizards, as it resists Mega Charizard X's STAB combination and can threaten to set up a Dragon Dance while Mega Charizard Y's coverage of Fire / Grass / Fight is ineffective against Mega Altaria, albeit Mega Altaria can't do a whole lot back. Mega Charizard X is very difficult to switch into, especially since it can boost its Attack. Assuming the standard offensive sets (as Will-O-Wisp from the defensive one greatly cripples many potential answers), Quagsire, Landorus-T, Rhyperior, and Hippowdon are its most reliable counters, all of which threaten with STAB Earthquake. However, Quagsire can be 2HKOed by +0 Outrage, Landorus-T and Rhyperior lack reliable recovery, and Hippowdon, even with full Defense investment, can be worn down with entry hazards until Mega Charizard X can force its way past it. Slowbro can recover off damage and doesn't care too much about Will-O-Wisp, though it is actually OHKOed by +1 Outrage from a Dragon Dance set after some prior damage; however, this is not the case with Mega Slowbro, which can tank an attack and proceed to use Thunder Wave or Scald. Although typically not physically defensive, Heatran can stomach many hits and stall with Toxic if Mega Charizard X lacks Earthquake. Azumarill gets a special mention for resisting every common attack Mega Charizard X has while not being weak to Earthquake; however, like most of the aforementioned Pokemon, it is severely crippled by Will-O-Wisp. However, Assault Vest Azumarill can beat Mega Charizard Y one on one, making it a solid check to that. Mega Charizard Y's reliable switch-ins are also limited to specialized specially defensive Pokemon. Blissey and Chansey wall Mega Charizard Y hard and can heal back the damage while stalling it out with Seismic Toss and / or Toxic. Assault Vest Goodra is also notable for taking pittance from it's attacks and can attack back with hard-hitting moves, though they can be poor choices against other Pokemon in the metagame, and both lack reliable recovery, meaning that they can be worn down over a game's span with Mega Charizard Y's attacks. When sandstorm is up, Hippowdon can limit Solar Beam to being a two-turn move and halfs the power of it, and use this opportunity to OHKO Mega Charizard Y with Rock Slide or Stone Edge. Politoed can also do this, except it summons rain instead of sandstorm, which decreases the power of Fire Blast. Speaking of bulky ground-types, Hippowdon's specially defensive set can also consistently check Mega Charizard Y, apart from Sandstorm's shenanigans with Solar Beam, while Physically defensive Gliscor can beat Mega Charizard X due to its STAB Earthquake and high defenses. Bulky Tyranitar can beat Mega Charizard X as it can take an Earthquake and retaliate with Stone Edge, and can even take on Mega Charizard Y if it fails to hit Focus Blast. Specially Defensive Gyarados can check Mega Charizard X with Intimidate and can even counter Mega Charizard Y by being able to hit it hard with Waterfall even in sun and by resisting its main STAB and not taking much from Solar Beam or Focus Blast. Cresselia can check both Charizards with it's enormous bulk and can threaten with Thunder Wave.

**Offensively Inclined Bulky Pokemon**: Mega Charizard X has very few answers outside of revenge killing it or using a dedicated defensive Pokemon on a stall or balance team, However, Mega Charizard Y has a few common offensive responses that can actually switch into it. Without the rare Earthquake and Ancient Power, Mega Charizard Y lacks good coverage against Fire-type Pokemon, though the help of Drought, allows it to often 2HKO frailer ones. Opponents can rely on bulkier Fire-types as good offensive responses. Specially defensive Talonflame can take Mega Charizard Y's typical attacks very easily and wear it down with Brave Bird. Mega Charizard X itself also hard walls any set without the rare and suboptimal Dragon Pulse and can proceed to set up on it or hit Mega Charizard Y hard with its powerful Dragon-type attacks. Entei risks being 2HKOed by Fire Blast or Focus Blast, but it can tank one of these attacks in a pinch and respond back with Stone Edge or Extreme Speed. Fire-types aren't the only offensive answers though; many Dragon-types can also function similarly as checks, sometimes even if it is carrying Dragon Pulse. Latios, Latias, and Garchomp are all faster than Mega Charizard Y, and can tank at least attack before hitting back with a powerful attack of their own. Goodra is similar, but is slower and has so much special bulk that even Dragon Pulse can only 3HKO it, with or without an Assault Vest. Specially defensive Dragonite can also tank Mega Charizard Y's attacks with the aid Multiscale and setup or force damage onto it. RestTalk Mega Ampharos is a powerful Pokemon that can switch into Mega Charizard Y and fire off powerful Volt Switches.

**Faster Attackers**: Mega Charizard Y's Speed is rather average and isn't boosted by any move on its common sets. This makes its very vulnerable to revenge killing from powerful Pokemon with super-effective STAB moves. Thundurus, Terrakion, Keldeo, Mega Diancie, and many other common metagame threats all possess super effective or very strong moves while outspeeding it naturally. When using a Choice Scarf, some other common Pokemon such as Excadrill, Landorus-T, Diggersby, and Tyranitar can also surprise and revenge kill it. Revenge killing Mega Charizard X is a bit more complex, though it is almost always the most practical solution for defeating it when using an offensive team. Not all Choice Scarf users can outspeed it after a boost, however. At +1 Speed, Adamant Mega Charizard X can be revenge killed by a few Choice Scarf users, including Garchomp, Terrakion, Excadrill, Landorus-T, and Kyurem-B, all of which can OHKO with their STAB moves. With a Jolly nature, however, only the first two listed Pokemon can outpace it. While priority would normally be an answer, Mega Charizard X is physically bulky enough to withstand a couple of Ice Shards, Mach Punches, Aqua Jets, and Bullet Punches, with Roost to heal any damage that is racked up through a combination of priority moves. Talonflame's Choice Band Brave Bird gets a special mention though, as it can deal up up to 86% damage instantly to offensive variants. To an extent, Thunder Wave from Prankster Thundurus is also problematic because it completely nullifies the boosted Speed of Mega Charizard X making it suspectible to a wider range of revenge killers. Sand is a very effective way to beat both Charizards, as Mega Charizard X and Y aren't able to break through Hippowdon and the former not being able to beat bulky Tyranitar, while Excadrill in the sand outspeeds and OHKOes both. Mega Aerodactyl can outspeed both sets if not boosted and can OHKO with Stone Edge.

**Residual, Status, and Stealth Rock Damage**: Both of Charizard's Mega formes are susceptible to an overload of passive damage. Mega Charizard X is more affected by this, as it takes recoil damage from Flare Blitz. However, some bulky Ground-types can use Toxic on either Mega Evolution while being 2HKOed, which allows them to wear Charizard down slowly. Perhaps the most significant form of passive damage that can be inflicted on either Charizard is Stealth Rock, which strips Mega Charizard X of half of its health as it first switches in or is Mega Charizard Y; Mega Charizard X still takes a heavy 25% damage from the hazard. Another issue is Ferrothorn, which while OHKOed by Mega Charizard X's Flare Blitz, does inflict Iron Barbs recoil in addition to the regular Flare Blitz recoil.
 
Last edited:

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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Why would outrage be in OO when it's on the sd + tailwind set?
Speaking of that set, here's something that agent Gibbs brought up in the previous thread which I wholeheartedly support:
Oh yeah, forgot to bring this up earlier. Thoughts on Swords Dance + STABs + Roost? It's a set that I've seen here and there over the past couple of months (chimpact mentioned it in his POTW thread, if I remember right), and I've used it a little myself. It's a bit of a terror for slower teams to face since it can even OHKO 252/252+ Hippowdon with a +2 Flare Blitz if it gets a high damage roll and can do even more damage to a minimally invested Mega Altaria, and unlike the Swords Dance + Tailwind set, it's harder for these teams to wear down thanks to the presence of Roost. If you don't want to make it its own set, one other option would be to make the current "Swords Dance + Tailwind" set into a more general "Swords Dance" set with Roost either slashed next to Tailwind or mentioned in Moves (Dragon Claw would need a bigger mention as well since it works better alongside Roost than Outrage, in my opinion). I know it's kinda late since this is already into the GP stage, but just thought I'd float that idea out there.
Here is the calc for reference:
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 400-472 (95.2 - 112.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

That's scary.
So basically the set would be renamed "Swords Dance" which seems pretty fitting.
 
yeah was just following the comments, removed anyways

if anything that set would get a strong mention in OO, it's outclassed for the most part by SD + tailwind due to it being slower (and sd+tailwind is essentially double dance) which means it can only function correctly against slower/stall teams where sd + tailwind does well against both offense and defense
 

AM

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Ill take a more in depth look when I get home id personally would like this to be at qc instead of Gp right now to make sure we cover everything on such an important mon.
 

aim

pokeaimMD
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Agreeing with AM. This is a huge analysis that has been on an off for about a year. Gonna talk about it with the qc guys but for now i changed it back to QC. We'll be posting within the next few days
 

DarkNostalgia

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Shouldn't you run Timid>Modest on CharY? If running Modest you lose to Manaphy of all things, and stuff like Jolly Excadrill ofc.
 
yeah was just following the comments, removed anyways

if anything that set would get a strong mention in OO, it's outclassed for the most part by SD + tailwind due to it being slower (and sd+tailwind is essentially double dance) which means it can only function correctly against slower/stall teams where sd + tailwind does well against both offense and defense
I disagree. The problem with the Double Dance set is that between Stealth Rock, Flare Blitz recoil, miscellaneous passive damage such as Spikes and Hippowdon's Sandstream, and various other forms of chip damage, Charizard X just gets worn down too quickly to cleanly sweep well built stall teams. Roost makes it a lot easier to take on stall since your opponent can't just rely on chipping away at Charizard X until it goes down. The set is also far from useless against offense since very little wants to switch into the combination of Dragon Claw and Flare Blitz, and even some slower and bulkier resists like Mega Altaria and Azumarill are taking a crapload from a +2 Flare Blitz. Plus, it still offers solid defensive utility against common offensive Pokemon such as Charizard Y and various Electrics, and base 100 Spe isn't bad by any means. It's not entirely outclassed by Swords Dance + Tailwind because the Roost recovery is pretty huge, and I'd personally like to see it get a Moves mention at worst.
 
Ill take a more in depth look when I get home id personally would like this to be at qc instead of Gp right now to make sure we cover everything on such an important mon.
Agreeing with AM. This is a huge analysis that has been on an off for about a year. Gonna talk about it with the qc guys but for now i changed it back to QC. We'll be posting within the next few days
Gotcha. I'll put this back in skeleton y/n?
 
Powerful physical attackers such as Terrakion, Diggersby, and Dragonite have good offensive synergy as they are able to weaken Mega Charizard X's checks and counters.
Dragonite really is not that efficient at wallbreaking, because a number of defensive Pokemon, like Hippowdon, Chesnaught, and Slowbro can still wall it. Mention instead Crawdaunt, who breaks through Slowbro, Tyranitar, Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and defensive Heatran quite easily, whereas Zard X can put pressure on Chesnaught, who is one of the few Pokemon that can wall Crawdaunt. Crawdaunt also lures in Azumarill and do over 80% even to Assault Vest variants, weakening it so Zard X can break through it.
 

jzplr

formerly SuperLuigi9624
Minor nitpick -- I would mention why the nature is chosen on the Sp. Def Charizard Y set. I'm building a team around Sp.Def Zard Y right now, and I'm running Earthquake with a Calm nature.
I would mention how Calm nature always secures a 2HKO on Heatran and a nature like Gentle or Sassy is unnecessary.
Other than that, it's great. Also a fan of the Swords Dance + Tailwind set.
 

AM

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Dragon Dance
########

name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Flare Blitz
move 3: Dragon Claw
move 4: Roost / Earthquake
ability: Blaze
item: Charizardite X
evs: 104 HP / 220 Atk / 184 Spe
nature: Jolly

Set order like this to put emphasis on the important of each move since Flare Blitz is a huge selling point even more so than Dragon Claw is. Earthquake should be in set details as an option to run Fire / Ground coverage along with Roost / Dragon Dance. Set details should have an option to run max speed / max attack primarily for outpacing Scarf Kyurem-B after a Dragon Dance.

Usage tip should explain that the format that Char-Y follows in terms of partners like you explained in the team options section can be used to your advantage to make them assume Char-Y is the mega when it's really Char-X and this can allow a potential clean through Dragon Dance with making this mistake.

Team options need to include Manaphy for wall-breaking, Tangrowth for pivoting into fat grounds, Chesnaught for mitigating issues with Sand Offense, Starmie for extra cleaning aspects and hazard removal, Ferrothorn and Klefki for spikes support. Most fat waters that are usually found on bulky offense or balance such as Slowbro, Suicune, Slowking, Rotom-W work well with Char-X to provide checks to fat ground types and in the case of Slowbro and Slowking can help with issues against threats such as M-Metagross and Keldeo. Add Wobbuffet for trappers along with Dugtrio to either remove troubles such as Heatran if running Fire / Dragon coverage, Tyranitar, or use a Memento to give Char-X an easier time sweeping. Most of the relevant ground types in the tier that can provide Stealth Rock support or just defensive and offensive aspects need to be included along with your Landorus-T mention such as Landorus, Hippowdon, Garchomp just to name a few. Mention relevant Healing wish users such as Jirachi, Celebi, and Latias as partners and what other traits they provide other than just Healing Wish, like Celebi but a bit more in depth than what you have now. You need to differentiate between the Latis because granted they check some similar things but they can provide assets that one Lati may not be able to accomplish such as the mention of Healing Wish Latias I just explained, its higher defensive traits and with Latios can provide assets such as Tailwind, Memento, and more offensive presence in general that can help clear the way for a Char-X sweep. Needs to include checks to M-Altaria and M-Diancie as these are issues that Char-X will have to cope with in the meta. Scizor and Specially Defensive Skarmory for M-Diancie and Gengar and the previous mention of Jirachi can be put with this as well for M-Altaria so you can use those and you should include what works well with Char-X in general.

Wallbreaker
########

Usage tip is failing to address how meticulous playing and applying offensive pressure with and in tandem with Char-Y partners is how these teams and Char-Y itself succeeds. Char-Y is known to force a lot of switches just by being on the field and getting in there through either double switches or momentum grabbers like Baton Pass Celebi, which can give you the upper advantage in firing off something like a Fire Blast or taking advantage of potential Char-Y switch ins such as Pursuit users trapping Latis or putting in something like Terrakion in the face of an incoming Chansey. This section also needs to emphasize how important keeping rocks off the field is for it as this x4 weakness to rocks will quickly make it lose it's defensive traits that it provides through its typing. Charizard-Y isn't as easy to maintain as people make it out to be so I wouldn't exaggerate this point.

Tyranitar in general needs to be considered a partner not just Choice Band set, so Scarf tar and support tar in tandem with Excadrill. NastyPass Celebi needs to be put in as partner as well for passing boosts along with providing a Water resist.

Bulky Will-O-Wisp
########

In usage tips...
For example, Charizard should Will-o-Wisp lead Garchomp in its regular forme, as the Garchomp user is likely to go for Earthquake, doing a huge amount of damage if you Mega Evolve, but none if you don't.
This is sort of a problem if you face a Lum Berry Garchomp which are found on more offensive builds like Hyper Offense, so in usage tip mention being wary of this.

Sort of the same deal with partners on team options like the Dragon Dance set but mention stuff like Amoonguss, Torn-T, Alomomola, regenerator mons as this set is usually found on either Balance or Semi-Stall primarily. The first two I mentioned can also go with the Dragon Dance set if using Balance.

Swords Dance + Tailwind
########

Mention Jolly SD / Tailwind for Zard-X in set details to handle Jolly Excadrill a bit better in and out of sand but put emphasis that Zard-X running a Jolly nature as opposed to adamant will miss out KOs on things such as Azumarill at +2. Most of the partners here once again correlate to it's Dragon Dance set since it needs stuff like fat grounds and Tyranitar out of the way before sweeping with this set.

Other Options
########

Toxic should be mentioned as an option on specially defensive Zard-Y. Iron Tail needs a mention for Dragon Dance set for breaking M-Altaria and M-Diancie in one sitting along with not forcing high recoil damage on fat fairies like Clefable.

Checks & Counters
########

Ctrl + F Mega Aerodactyl- No match...you get the idea. Falls under faster pokemon checks and counter.

Do all of this and tag me for QC check when implemented.
 

AM

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Skeleton but considering the information from my last comment is all relevant you're gonna have to end up doing it anyways either way.
 
Dragonite really is not that efficient at wallbreaking, because a number of defensive Pokemon, like Hippowdon, Chesnaught, and Slowbro can still wall it. Mention instead Crawdaunt, who breaks through Slowbro, Tyranitar, Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and defensive Heatran quite easily, whereas Zard X can put pressure on Chesnaught, who is one of the few Pokemon that can wall Crawdaunt. Crawdaunt also lures in Azumarill and do over 80% even to Assault Vest variants, weakening it so Zard X can break through it.
Mysteria you never added Crawdaunt as a teammate, it deals with almost all of Zard X's defensive checks. Also mention LO Thunderbolt Starmie as a teammate for Dragon Dance, it lures in Slowbro while still being able to provide Rapid Spin support.
 

AM

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Once you've done those things above Mysteria you can consider this QC 1/3. Seems like you've implemented everything I mentioned.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Mention how chandelure walls all zard y sets lacking ancientpower and equake.
Chandelure is not relevant enough to mention, as it's D-Rank.

Mention Victini as an answer for Mega Charizard Y; it resists all of Wallbreaker's main moves (Modest Fire Blast will 2HKO though and it almost always gets 2HKO'd by coverage + Fire Blast with Rocks up and Modest Zard) and can revenge with Bolt Strike or V-Create (Banded V-Create will always KO with Drought still active, even if Jolly). Victini also beats the SpDef set due to Will-O-Wisp immunity.
 
Zard Y should mention more teammates that appreciate having a wallbreaker breaking their checks, such as Keldeo (if paired with ScarfTar), Hawlucha, and Serperior, all of which have checks that Zard Y beats out.
 
I think Timid should be first on Zard-Y. Manaphy is stupidly dangerous and Mega Gardevoir shouldn't be dismissed either, that tie is so crucial. Also losing to Jolly Exca which has gained a lot of traction is just embarassing, and you'll scream with delight when you beat the +SpAtk RP Landorus that's running around. I haven't seen any +Spe Kyurem-B yet but I know some people advocate it so when that gets popular beating it will be sick as well. Modest is cool for doing over 50% to Lati@s and shit but they're still beating you and the speed will be a game-deciding factor a hell of a lot more than the extra power.

I really like Dragon Tail on bulky Zard-X. I had Adamant on a team but ben had me change it to Careful because the power is almost never making a difference (the only scenario I can think of is EQing a full health bulky Heatran) while the bulk will save you - again, Manaphy is a prick and I was very thankful for it when taking Focus Blasts from Thundurus and Zard-Y.

If you're going Jolly with the DDer, I would just max speed for the same reasons as Zard-Y, especially if you're willing to go up to 216 EVs; at that point, just go all the way. Speed kills.
 
I think Timid should be first on Zard-Y. Manaphy is stupidly dangerous and Mega Gardevoir shouldn't be dismissed either, that tie is so crucial. Also losing to Jolly Exca which has gained a lot of traction is just embarassing, and you'll scream with delight when you beat the +SpAtk RP Landorus that's running around. I haven't seen any +Spe Kyurem-B yet but I know some people advocate it so when that gets popular beating it will be sick as well. Modest is cool for doing over 50% to Lati@s and shit but they're still beating you and the speed will be a game-deciding factor a hell of a lot more than the extra power.

I really like Dragon Tail on bulky Zard-X. I had Adamant on a team but ben had me change it to Careful because the power is almost never making a difference (the only scenario I can think of is EQing a full health bulky Heatran) while the bulk will save you - again, Manaphy is a prick and I was very thankful for it when taking Focus Blasts from Thundurus and Zard-Y.

If you're going Jolly with the DDer, I would just max speed for the same reasons as Zard-Y, especially if you're willing to go up to 216 EVs; at that point, just go all the way. Speed kills.
gave careful and 252 / 252 mentions in set details and swapped the natures ty
 
Mysteria said:
Y is the most powerful wallbreaker in OU. Under the sun, Fire Blast OHKOes practically everything that isnt a Chansey or a 4x resist.
I guess you're exagerating a bit too much here, remove it and just mention that Fire Blast is doing heavy damage.

Mysteria said:
As a wallbreaker, it's only threatened by offensive pressure and is countered by only Charizard X, Lati@s, Chansey, and Dragonite.
Well Charizard is 2HKO'd by Focus Blast assuming he's not SpeDef and Lati@s, Dragonite can not counter it without roost since Fire blast will hard hit. However you can say that's they are annoying.

Mysteria said:
Mega Charizard X is very easy to wear down even with Roost considering SR, Flare Blitz, and Ferro's Iron Barbs. Dragon Dance is just amazing on Zard X; amazing bulk and typing makes it extremely easy to set up and after ONE DD can 6-0 any team without Talonflame or Azumarill.
You're overcentralizing way too much, everyteam doesnt run Ferrothorn, just replace Flare Blitz and Ferro by Recoils damage. And it doesnt sweep while there are a ton of Hippo, Landorus-T, Diancie or utility pokemons such as Klefki, Thundy, remove it, it's not needed in additino to be false.

Mysteria said:
  • Blaze is the initial ability, but then it transforms into Tough Claws
  • 252 / 252 is an option cuz speed kills
  • Charizardite X is obviously the item needed for mega evo
  • Spreads: 104 HP / 220 Atk / 184 Spe Jolly is usually the most standard and outspeeds Scarf Landorus-T after a boost and OHKOes it after Stealth Rock with Flare Blitz with this investment.
  • 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe Jolly is a good spread as well. This lets you outpace Kyurem-B before a Dragon Dance and CS Kyurem-B after one.
  • 248 HP / 180 SpD / 80 Spe Careful is a very unorthodox spread, but lets you outpace Tornadus-T at +1 and can check many Special Attackers such as Mega Charizard Y, Thundurus, and Keldeo.
  • 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe Jolly is an option to outpace Jolly Mega Heracross and Adamant Drill but both are rarely used anymore.
  • 248 HP / 100 Atk / 160 Spe Jolly does the exact same but is a wee bit bulkier.
  • 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 adamant is still a respectable spread
Too many spread, ppl will be troubled otherwise. I kept the most effectives one.

Mysteria said:
Lati@s are easy stops to this set so trappers such as TTar and Bisharp can Pursuit them, and Bisharp deters Defog
You already mentioned it, don't be redundant please.

Then for Tailwind + SD set you should mention digger / chomp / crawdaunt / Haxorus as you did for Dragon Dance since they have pretty good offensive synergy and can wear down unawar user, slowbro, hippowdon etc..

I guess that's essential to mention that charizard y can run Ancient Power for another charizard and Talonflame spe def which is one of its best counter. (Other Option)
Then FlameCharge on Charizard X can be cool coupled with SD, allows him from not being vulnerable 2 turns while using SD + Tailwind.

2/3 after all that, i leave it to you TDK !
 
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