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Charizard Y

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Subject 18, Dec 25, 2013.

  1. Subject 18

    Subject 18
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    Overview
    ########

    After many years of mediocrity, Charizard has risen to top of the food chain in the OU tier after receiving two Mega Evolutions. Mega Charizard Y is easily the most powerful wallbreaker under the sun. While the sun is up, it is countered by very few Pokemon, such as Latias, Latios, Chansey, Multiscale Dragonite, and its counterpart, Mega Charizard X. Despite its powerful Mega Evolution, Charizard's Fire / Flying typing does not change and makes it very weak to Stealth Rock. Additionally, its average Speed prevents it from sweeping teams.

    Wallbreaker Charizard
    ########
    name: Mega Charizard-Y
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Solar Beam
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Roost / Dragon Pulse
    ability: Blaze
    item: Charizardite-Y
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Moves
    ========

    In the sun, Fire Blast 2HKOes, if not totally incinerates, just about anything that doesn't resist or absorb it save for a small number of special walls. A neutral Fire Blast also hits much harder than Charizard-Y's other attacks hitting super effectively, so the other moves listed should only really be used situationally. If accuracy worries you, Flamethrower can be used for consistency, but the power loss is very noticeable.

    Solar Beam allows Charizard-Y to hit the Water- and Rock-types that resist Fire Blast, but it must be used while the sunlight is shining. Focus Blast gives Charizard-Y much needed coverage against Heatran and Tyranitar, both of which limit the use of Fire Blast and Solar Beam. Roost provides a great means of recovery, granting Charizard-Y longevity and going well in tandem with its high Special Defense. On the other hand, Dragon Pulse gives it coverage against Dragon-types, allowing Charizard-Y a chance to win against Dragonite, Charizard-X, Latios, and Goodra.

    Earthquake can be used over Focus Blast to beat Heatran more reliably than Focus Blast would. However, this does make dealing with Tyranitar a little tougher, as 4 Atk Charizard-Y only 3HKOes it with Earthquake.

    Set Details
    ========

    This set is a simple special attacker, so maximized Special Attack and Speed are required to make it as fast and powerful as possible. A Timid nature is preferred to avoid being outsped by several key threats, especially positive-natured threats in the base 87-100 Speed range such as Excadrill, Mega Garchomp, Landorus-T, Kyurem-B, and Charizard-X. Charizard-Y also gains so much power in the sunlight that it doesn't really need the extra strength offered by Modest, though it can be used if your team can handle the Pokemon previously mentioned. Although Charizard-Y should Mega evolve immediately anyways, Blaze should be used instead of Solar Power as this set's default ability to avoid taking damage in sunlight.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    The purpose of this set is essentially to destroy anything that it comes by. It can operate in nearly any part of the game, but shines especially well mid- to late-game, where it can wallbreak or clean up the opposing team as required. If possible, keep Charizard-Y alive until its most important targets have been eliminated, as it is an extremely valuable nuke that typically shouldn't faint so soon in the game.

    Fortunately, it's not too hard to maintain Charizard-Y thanks to its decent defensive typing and great special bulk. Because of these traits, it can switch into common attacks, such as Earthquake, Knock Off, Iron Head, Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, Scald, Lava Plume, Moonblast, and other miscellaneous weak special attacks with ease. Another small but notable detail is that it can stomach some strong special attacks at full health; for instance, Life Orb Latias's Draco Meteor can only do 73.1 – 86.2%, allowing Charizard-Y to recover with Roost while stalling Latias out thanks to Draco Meteor's special attack drop. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for strong physical attacks, so it is not advised to recklessly switch into these types of moves unless resisted.

    Team Options
    ========

    Charizard-Y has a nasty Stealth Rock weakness, which can be taken care of with Defog or Rapid Spin support. Latias, Latios, Excadrill, Starmie, and Mew are good teammates that can clear away entry hazards safely and quickly; the former four are also notable for their good offensive power and coverage. Charizard-Y also appreciates defensive support, as it ideally wants to switch in multiple times while avoiding Rock- and Electric-type attacks. Hippowdon and Chesnaught are bulky walls that can absorb Thunderbolts and Stone Edges while also providing entry hazard support. More offensive teammates that can take these attacks include Assault Vest Raikou, Aegislash, Excadrill, and Landorus-T. Pairing it with a Pursuit trapper such as Tyranitar, Aegislash, or Bisharp will greatly benefit Charizard and help it succeed in breaking down the opposing team with sun-boosted Fire Blasts. This deals with the Lati twins, and in the case of Bisharp, puts more pressure on Chansey.

    Additionally, while this set breaks through a ton of defensive Pokemon, it notably has trouble dealing with Chansey and Blissey, both of which have more than enough Special Defense to switch into Fire Blast and heal off the damage repeatedly. Therefore, teammates that can beat them are absolutely required. Gothitelle is a fantastic partner for this, as it doesn't care much about incoming Toxics or Thunder Waves and can use Trick and Psyshock to completely dismantle the two pink blobs. More offensive alternatives for this role include Terrakion, Bisharp, Choice Band Tyranitar, Thundurus (with Knock Off and Superpower), Scizor, and Keldeo. Offensive support against opposing Latios and Latias (as well as other Dragon-types in general) is also appreciated; again, Tyranitar, Aegislash, and Bisharp are good teammates, especially since they have access to Pursuit. The latter can also use its ability, Defiant, to punish both if they attempt to use Defog.

    One thing to note is that Charizard-Y is skilled at wallbreaking. Take advantage of this by pairing Charizard with other offensive Pokemon that can clean up late-game. Good candidates for this include Keldeo, Talonflame, Kyurem-B, and many others, depending on your team.

    Other Options
    ========

    Charizard-Y's overlooked base 104 Attack, with the help of Drought, makes its physical Fire-type attacks surprisingly strong. With maximized Attack, it can lure in and break through an astounding number of Pokemon that would have walled or stalled it out otherwise; Chansey, Blissey, specially defensive Clefable, Sylveon, and Assault Vest Conkeldurr are all 2HKOed by an accurate sun-boosted Flare Blitz (the latter four are OHKOed with just an entry hazard or two), while Heatran is OHKOed by Earthquake with no questions asked. However, it faces fierce competition from Charizard-X, as the latter has overall better typing and slightly higher damage output on its contact moves thanks to Tough Claws. While Charizard-X does outclass Charizard-Y in terms of physical attacking, Charizard-Y has the benefit of surprise value since it is normally seen using special sets, thus having a higher chance of luring the above threats in. If the above sounds appealing, it is perhaps best to use Flare Blitz and Earthquake on a mixed set, where it can use Solar Beam, Focus Blast, and Roost to get past its usual targets while still breaking through its new ones. Dragon Dance can also be used to boost physical moves, though again, Charizard-X tends to perform this better due to its superior typing and STAB moves.

    Charizard-Y also has other special moves worth considering. Air Slash might seem like a good option, but its low Base Power and redundant coverage make it less appealing. Aside from a more accurate attack to use on Mega Venusaur and Conkeldurr (both of which are hit harder by sun-boosted Fire Blast anyway), it does not hit anything else notable and causes you to lose valuable coverage. Ancient Power is an option to OHKO Talonflame and opposing Charizard-Y, as well as reliably 2HKO Charizard-X and other miscellaneous Fire-types, but outside of these targets, it is rather weak. Overheat can also be used instead of or alongside Fire Blast to hit targets even harder, although the Special Attack drop will most likely force Charizard-Y out after its use.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Specially Defensive Tanks and Walls**: Only a few select specially defensive Pokemon can switch into Charizard and live to tell the tale. Blissey and Chansey wall Charizard-Y hard and can heal back the damage while stalling it out with Seismic Toss and/or Toxic. Assault Vest Goodra and Snorlax are also notable for taking pittance from even its super effective moves and can attack back with hard-hitting moves. However, they lack reliable recovery, meaning that they can be worn down easily by Charizard-Y's attacks. When sandstorm is up, Tyranitar and Hippowdon lower the power of Solar Beam and Fire Blast, and can use Solar Beam's charge-up turn as an opportunity to OHKO Charizard-Y with Rock Slide or Stone Edge. Politoed can also do this, except it summons rain instead of sandstorm, which further decreases the power of Fire Blast.

    **Bulky Fire-types**: Without Earthquake or Ancient Power, Charizard-Y lacks good coverage against Fire-type Pokemon. However, with the help of Drought, it can manage to 2HKO frailer ones, so opponents much rely on bulkier choices. Moltres and specially defensive Talonflame can both take Charizard-Y's typical attacks very easily and wear it down with Toxic and Brave Bird respectively. Charizard-X also hard walls any set without Dragon Pulse and can proceed to set up or hit it hard with its powerful Dragon-type attacks. Entei risks being 2HKOed by Fire Blast or Focus Blast, but it can tank one of these attacks and respond back with Stone Edge or Extreme Speed.

    **Dragon-types**: Even if it carries Dragon Pulse, Charizard-Y may find itself at the mercy of several Dragon-type Pokemon. Latios, Latias, and Garchomp are all faster than Charizard-Y, and can tank at least one Dragon Pulse or Fire Blast before hitting back with a powerful attack of their own. Goodra is similar, but is slower and has so much special bulk that Dragon Pulse can only 3HKO it, with or without an Assault Vest. Dragonite can also tank Charizard-Y's attacks thanks to Multiscale and proceed to set up.

    **Faster Attackers**: Charizard-Y's Speed is rather average, leaving it vulnerable to revenge killing. Thundurus, Terrakion, Greninja, Keldeo, Garchomp, and many others all threaten with super effective moves while outspeeding naturally. Threats with a Choice Scarf, such as Excadrill, Landorus-T, Diggersby, Gardevoir, and Tyranitar can also surprise and revenge kill it.

    **Stealth Rock**: Even though it's not a direct counter, Stealth Rock can greatly limit Charizard's longevity.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2014
  2. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Where is the mixed set?
  3. Subject 18

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    I'm still adding on to it. I just didn't want everything to be deleted while I rebooted.
  4. TheTraininator

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    So I'm not QC, but somewhere a ways back a set was brought up that seemed kind of interesting and effective for Char-Y that I don't believe many people considered.

    name: Specially Based Dragon Dance-Y
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Solar Beam
    move 4: Earthquake
    ability: Blaze
    item: Charizadite-Y
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Naive / Hasty

    The premise of this set is that it catches its opponents off guard by getting off a surprise Dragon Dance and proceeding to sweep, while using the Attack boost to run Earthquake as coverage. To give you an example of how effective it is:

    +1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 428-504 (110.8 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    I'm not sure if Naive or Hasty is the preferred nature, so I put both in. This set may actually be total crap for all I know, but it seemed interesting enough to me to warrant a mention on here.

    EDIT: I realized this also should be worth mentioning:

    +1 4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 296-350 (101 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    This set outspeeds and destroys Infernape, who otherwise serves as a great check who outspeeds and OHKOs with Banded Iron Fist Thunderpunch
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  5. Tainic

    Tainic

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    You should mention in the Overview that Drought reduces his Water weakness, (Giving a pitiful 60 BP to unstabbed Surf, which is still used by Lati@s, and 90 BP to Stabbed ones.) making Electric his only "true" weakness on the Special side.
  6. MattL

    MattL I have discovered a truly remarkable CT which this box is t-
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    I've been using Zard-Y as a wallbreaker quite a bit, and it does a ton of work. The set I've been using is a variant of the fully special set with Substitute in the last slot instead of Roost, and I definitely think Substitute should be slashed in the final slot. Char-Y is fast, but is still outsped by a fair number of things, including all of the priority running rampant and obviously all Scarfers, so I've found that the set is pretty prediction-reliant at times. Substitute has worked so well for me because Zard-Y does a pretty good job at forcing switches, and being behind a Substitute nearly eliminates prediction. Fire/Grass/Fighting is great coverage considering how strong all of the moves are, so forcing them to stay in to break the sub is really helpful and using Substitute on the switch almost guarantees you a KO. Obviously this set requires Rapid Spin/Defog support since there's no recovery and Substitute cuts your HP, but it's a really good option to reliably nuke the other team.
  7. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    I really want to see at least some mention of Dragon Pulse in the first set, possibly even a secondary slash on Roost. Dragon Pulse is just so good against common checks to Zard y such as Lati@s (main one) and Goodra.
  8. mrglass

    mrglass

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    I feel like Flame Charge should be slashed in the first set. After one boost, it turns Mega Charizard Y into a terrifying late-game sweeper (or an early game sweeper if your opponent lacks one of the Pokemon that wall it). Flame Charge is also an accurate attacking option, which is nice to have when SolarBeam becomes unusable after 5 turns, and Fire Blast and Focus Blast are inaccurate. It's particularly great on Sturdy/Sashed pokemon, and pokemon that will switch out.

    It also makes use of the Zard Y's decent base 104 Sp. Atk stat.
    losedude and Air like this.
  9. Jukain

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    I've used Mega Charizard Y for ~50 battles now and tbh the first set in the OP just does not do it for me. What I used:

    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Solar Beam
    move 3: Focus Blast / Air Slash
    move 4: Ancient Power / Earthquake

    Okay so...

    Fire Blast and Solar Beam are obvious. The latter totally wrecks Azumarill and Rotom-W, which is just excellent. This can prove really nice against stuff like Mega Pinsir and Mega Lucario. Focus Blast I've run because it handles Tyranitar and Heatran nicely. The last slot is EQ or Ancient Power. Air Slash finds a place in the third slot sometimes as a more accurate STAB that's still decently powerful. EQ is cool because it does tons to SDef Heatran, but Ancient Power is also really nice because it lets you beat Talonflame and opposing Mega Charizard Y.

    This is easily the best set I've found (slashes because I alternate these moves from time to time. tl;dr Ancient Power is awesome and Air Slash can be cool. Supporting Dragon Pulse too, although I'm not sure where. I'm not a huge fan of Roost but w/e I guess it's okay.

    Also I don't quite get Flare Blitz. It does nothing besides wreck the blobs :/ I really don't see the justification for it. AC at best, imo.

    Finally, mention that partners which appreciate the killing of Mandibuzz work great. Mega Charizard Y is one of the few things that can easily do substantial (upwards of 3/4 its HP) damage.

    Oh and AV Tyranitar isn't enjoying a Focus Blast j/s.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Yeah i agree that Roost is not a must at all on the first set, and that extra coverage is usually the way to go. I prefer Dragon Pulse + EQ as Focus Blast has terrible acuracy and Heatran is a bitch, but Focus Blast is better if you go with Roost. Also, Ancientpower is not needed when Fire Blast 2HKOes both Mega Char Y and Talonflame:

    - 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 48 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame in Sun: 212-250 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    - 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 139-164 (46.6 - 55%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO

    So, this is how i would make the set:

    SET NAME
    ########
    name: Mega Charizard-Y
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Solar Beam
    move 3: Dragon Pulse / Focus Blast
    move 4: Earthquake / Roost
    ability: Blaze / Solar Power
    item: Charizadite-Y
    nature: Hasty / Mild
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Defense is lowered in order to take advantage of Mega Char Y's good special bulk and it's mostly specially based resistances. I also slashed in there a +SpA nature, as many teams appreciate the extra power.
  11. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Ancient Power is necessary because you can only take one hit from Talonflame. OHKOing opposing Mega Charizard Y ensures they're out of the way. I don't mind it being AC, but not 2HKOing indeed matters a lot.

    Also, I wouldn't necessarily lower Defense, because Mega Charizard Y can handle Mega Lucario pretty nicely. I've personally stuck with Timid, as EQ still does a ton to Heatran, which can't really do a lot to you anyways unless it carries like Stone Edge lol.
  12. alexwolf

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    Yeah i get this, but it's not like they can reliably switch-in, that's what i am saying. Bringing in a Pokemon whose main means of damage is recoil moves and taking a min of ~70% from your main STAB is a pretty shitty plan, and it means that your opponent really has nothing resembling a safe switch-in to Mega Char Y. And it's not like Talonflame is a difficult Pokemon to check either. Same goes with Mega Char Y, which gets 2HKOed and can't OHKO back. AncientPower is OO material.

    EDIT: Dragon Pulse is Mega Char Y's only means of dealing with Mega Char X too btw, which 4x resists Fire Blast. Mega Char X, Latios, and Latias, are definitely good enough reasons to slash it first.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
  13. mrglass

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    But this issue is that Talonflame can revengekill Zard Y with Gale Wings. I'd say Ancient Power might be a niche on some teams, particularly Sticky Web based ones, but I don't think it really deserves a spot in a set.

    However, I do think that a support move on Charizard Y is important to have, be it Dragon Dance, Roost, or Flame Charge, and with that I'd slash Focus Blast and Dragon Pulse together. SolarBeam is kind of essential as it hits key Water and Rock types, but you can more easily build your team to deal with either T-Tar/Heatran or Goodra/Dragonite

    So something along the lines of this for the pure Special set
    SET NAME
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Focus Blast/ Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Solar Beam
    move 4: Roost/ Flame Charge
    ability: Blaze
    item: Charizardite-Y
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    I don't think it makes sense to even slash Solar Power in, as it just causes you to lose health in the event your opponent throws up sun. Sure you're slightly more powerful than your Mega form, but if you're using the Mega Stone in the first place, you obviously care about the longetivity it provides over SP.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  14. Jukain

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    Roost is by no means obligatory. The fact is that 99% of the time I'm using Megazard Y, I want to attack and destroy stuff. Roost is like a waste of a turn half the time IMO. Flame Charge is pretty similar. Megazard Y is not a sweeper. Its sun goes away too fast to waste turns setting up. Your biggest issues remain the same at +1, like Scarf Keldeo and Terrakion, Latios/Latias, etc. The Speed boost can be nice, but ultimately it's just a wasted turn of sun.

    The purpose of Ancient Power is that you only have one chance to hit Talonflame in many cases. Say it's coming in to revenge kill you, and you're already in range of a BB KO. A 2HKO means you're forced out/die. An OHKO means you win. If you're at higher health, the 2HKO is fine, but combined with the miss chance and the likelihood that you're gonna be a little bit weakened, Ancient Power doesn't totally lack merit. I don't even care if it's just mentioned in OO -- I just want it to be mentioned somewhere.
  15. alexwolf

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    Mega Zard Y is primarily a wallbreaker, and it needs all 4 of Fire Blast / SolarBeam / Dragon Pulse / Earthquake to avoid getting walled by any common threat. Roost is nice, but only if your team can easily handle the specific threats that Dragon Pulse or Earthquake cover. Flame Charge is really mediocre, as Mega Zard Y is not particularly physically bulky and is very vulnerable to priority attacks such as Brave Bird, Sucker Punch, and Aqua Jet, so even at +1 Speed it's not reliably sweeping any time soon.

    I have already talked about AncientPower and i am fine with it being in OO for teams that really struggle against Talonflame and Mega Zard Y.
  16. mrglass

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    I strongly disagree. While it's good as a wallbreaker, I don't think it has any difficulty at all as a later game sweeper. Mega Zard Y's physical bulk at 78/72 isn't really too bad for an offensive pokemon, and it's special bulk is great. It can tank at least 1 hit from the priority moves you mentioned, and it has nice resists to Mach Punch and Bullet Punch.
    Mamoswine's Ice Shard only has a small chance of 2HKOing
    252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 132-156 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO

    Once you are +1, you can outspeed things that would otherwise be dangerous counters like Greninja and Alakazam, and if you manage to get another boost off, it can be even difficult to stop. Also, if you are going for the standard Fire Blast/ Solar Beam/ Focus Blast, you have quite a bit of unreliability, so Flame Charge does provide a nice additional utility should you choose to use it.

    Non-Scarf Keldeo and Terrakion are threats without +1, as are Garchomp, Alakazam, Gengar, Greninja, Heliolisk, Infernape, Jolteon, Starmie, Landorus, Thundurus, and Thundurus-T. You also run into trouble with Scarf Rotom among some other sub-100 scarfers.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  17. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    But, why would I try to boost my Speed to beat those threats? Let me just throw some calcs out there to illustrate how well those Pokemon are handling Megazard Y.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo in Sun: 170-201 (52.6 - 62.2%)

    - That right there means Keldeo is taking >50% switching in, regardless of prediction. If you use Solar Beam on the expected switch-in, it's getting OHKOed. Scarf Hydro Pump does a max of 63% in sun. EBelt does a max of 75.8%. LO does a max of 81.8%. Even Specs maxes out at 93.2%. So, Keldeo loses.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion in Sun: 170-201 (52.6 - 62.2%)

    - Same situation as Keldeo. If you Solar Beam, it's dead. However, it actually has a move that can OHKO you. So, if you Fire Blast, you're at least forced out. But, since it takes over half from Fire Blast, it can only do that once.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Sun: 180-212 (50.2 - 59.2%)

    - Again, it's taking over half. Dragon Pulse does 69.2 - 81.5%. Even then, it has to have Stone Edge (though the move is becoming standard) to KO. We'll say it forces you out once. It isn't coming back in, that's for sure. If it lacks Stone Edge, Megazard Y wins, easy.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam in Sun: 328-387 (130.1 - 153.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    - Alakazam is getting brought down to its sash on the first hit. Psychic does a pitiful 45.3 - 53.3% in return. Megazard Y wins.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja in Sun: 207-245 (72.3 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    - Greninja is taking 3/4 of its health on switch-in. LO Hydro Pump maxes out at 68.7% in sun. Solar Beam OHKOes. So, Greninja loses.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dry Skin Heliolisk in Sun: 412-486 (154.8 - 182.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    - Heliolisk is entirely irrelevant in OU, but I'll humor you. It gets totally wrecked.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Infernape in Sun: 207-243 (70.6 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    - So, Infernape loses 3/4 of its health. CB Iron Fist Thunder Punch is a 37.5% chance to OHKO, so you're forced out. However, Infernape just lost 75% of its health. It's in easy priority RK range. Thunder Punch is easy setup fodder too for anything that resists it/is decently bulky on the physical side. Examples: Landorus, Landorus-T, Celebi. Non-CB Iron Fist Thunder Punch doesn't even OHKO. Infernape's only shot there is Stone Edge, which it (1) doesn't always carry and (2) doesn't even always hit. Infernape leaves the situation horrendously harmed, and dead if it doesn't have Stone Edge or CB Thunder Punch. Both of which can easily be set up on.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Jolteon in Sun: 328-387 (120.5 - 142.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    - Easy. Jolteon dies switching in.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie in Sun: 179-211 (68.5 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    - Starmie takes ~3/4 of its health switching into Fire Blast. Solar Beam and it's dead. Non-LO Thunderbolt maxes out at 57.7%, and LO at 75.1%. Starmie loses.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus in Sun: 378-445 (118.1 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    - Easy OHKO. And, special Landorus (the most common and best variant) can't do anything to you.

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus in Sun: 378-445 (126 - 148.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T in Sun: 378-445 (126 - 148.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    - Simple OHKOs.

    Switching in is the only relevant time because otherwise, Megazard Y has already gotten a kill -- it's done something hugely useful. Against Thundurus, Thundurus-T, Jolteon, Garchomp, Heliolisk, and Terrakion, of this list, you are forced out if they revenge kill. Jolteon, Thundurus-T, and Heliolisk are pretty much irrelevant in this metagame, so you're left with three Pokemon, none of which can switch in. Quite frankly, I'm not seeing the use of Flame Charge at all when you can just burn shit to pieces and still destroy pretty much the same stuff.
  18. Subject 18

    Subject 18
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    I don't really see the need for Flame Charge due to how Zard Y plays. It does really need all four slots for attacking for wallbreaking purposes. It's not a sweeper so Flame Charge is a bit of a waste of a moveslot when Roost / EQ could be used instead. Jukain's above post is reasoning enough.

    Jukain, what does Air Slash even hit that you don't hit with Fire Blast / Solar Beam / Focus Blast? I'm curious.

    With all the talk about the first I'm changing it to this:

    SET NAME
    ########
    name: Mega Charizard-Y
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Focus Blast / Dragon Pulse
    move 3: Solar Beam
    move 4: Earthquake / Roost
    ability: Blaze
    item: Charizadite-Y
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe


    Everyone agree?
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    There is no point in arguing futher about this. Meg Zard's best role is that of a decently fast wallbreaker, not of a half-assed sweeper. Subject 18, please make the set the way i posted so i can approve it.

    Dragon Pulse > Focus Blast, as without Dragon Pulse you are walled by bulky Chomp, Lati@s, and Mega Char X, all very relevant and threatening Pokemon. Focus Blast is nice for Tyranitar, but Ttar is 2HKOed by Solarbeam anyway (the first time it switches in you will have sun up) or 3HKOed by EQ. Dragon Pulse is good for Goodra and Dragonite too.
  20. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    the particular purpose of air slash is to hit stuff like latios and keldeo without compromising too much power if you mispredict. tbh, it's ac or oo material at best. i definitely agree with alexwolf's set.
  21. mrglass

    mrglass

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    Air Slash is completely useless, Charizard does more damage with resisted Fire Blast than neutral Air Slash. To take an excerpt of one of my posts on the competitive discussion board:
    As for Flame Charge. I'm aware that Charizard can OHKO Keldeo, Terrakion, Starmie, Alakazam, and Greninja. However, it still takes substantial damage in the process. That can be remedied by Roost, but then you have a much less reliable arsenal of moves, and just like with Flame Charge you lose a coverage spot. Flame Charge simultaneously avoids such situations, and offers you a good way to break sashes and study without taking a risk.

    I feel like Flame Charge plays a similar role for Charizard to what it does for Reshiram. While it's true Reshiram has better coverage, that just means Charizard can't sweep early game. Later in the game it can be incredibly potent, and that's also the time when the Sun won't run out. At the very least I think FC deserves mention in OO.
  22. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    it also doesn't miss 15% of the time. situational, but decently useful. probably oo.
  23. mrglass

    mrglass

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    Yeah my bad I misread your post. But I'm not sure if just hitting Lati@s more accurately is worth it. Solar Beam is 100% accurate on Keldeo, and Dragon Pulse and Flame Charge both knock off small amounts of damage in the situations in which you care more about accuracy, while also providing other useful functions.
  24. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
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    Oh, I totally forgot -- it 2HKOes specially defensive Mega Venusaur outside of sun. Considering that's a pretty massive stop to you once sun is over, I'd say that's worth noting. Also, it gives you a good chance to flinch it, meaning there's a 30% chance it can't sleep you (it's higher factoring in the 75% accuracy of Sleep Powder, actually). It's also notable against Mega Venusaur because it doesn't rely on hitting two 85% accurate moves, one of which is bound to miss. At least worth OO for that.
  25. Subject 18

    Subject 18
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    Updated. Should be QC Ready now.

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