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Pokémon Charizard

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by X5Dragon, Oct 14, 2013.

?

Which one these MEvos will be OU in your opinion?

  1. CharX

    21.5%
  2. CharY

    18.9%
  3. Both

    51.5%
  4. Neither

    8.1%
  1. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,003
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    CharizardX----------CharizardY


    Charizard
    [​IMG]
    Those two being above me is blaah, disgusting!


    *MEvo facts: You can Mega Evolve and Attack on the same turn and your pokemon stays mega evolved through out the match. However, switching takes priority to Mega evolving. Mega stones cannot be tricked away or knocked off. Both of them are capable of participating in Sky Battles.




    Pokedex Number - #006 (Central Kalos #85)
    Type(s) - Fire/Dragon (CharX), Fire/Flying (CharY)


    Base Stats: (Charizard -> Mega Charizard X / Y)

    HP: 78-> 78 / 78
    Atk 84-> 130 / 104
    Def 78-> 111 / 78
    SpA 109-> 130 / 159
    SpD 85-> 85 / 115
    Speed 100-> 100 / 100



    Abilities:


    Blaze: Boosts power of Fire-type moves 50% when at 1/3 HP or less.

    Solar Power: HP decreases in the sun. Special Attack increases by 50%.

    Tough Claws: Boosts the power of contact moves by x1.33 (33%)

    Drought: Automatically summons sunlight in battle as soon as a Pokémon with Drought enters the battle. Its effects almost are the same as Sunny Day's. If a Pokémon with Drought is sent out in the same turn as another Pokémon whose Ability creates a different weather condition, the slower Pokémon's Ability will override the faster Pokémon's Ability.


    Notable Moves:

    Solar Beam
    Fire Blast (110 BP)
    Flame Thrower (90 BP)
    Dragon Pulse (85 BP)
    Air Slash
    Focus Blast
    Earth Quake
    Flare Blitz
    Flame Charge
    Outrage
    Sword Dance
    Ancient Power



    Two type combos:

    *Only underlined pokemon and types exist as of Gen 6

    Dragon/Fire:
    Resisted by: Heatran (ability), Fairy/Fire, Fairy/Rock, Fairy/Water, Fairy/Dragon
    Perfect Third Type Coverage: Ground



    General Analysis of Pokemon:


    Even though Charizard was solidly NU, his legions of fans refused to be constrained by his meager stats and SR laughable typing, and they genuinely believed he was better, much better. In fact, he was used high enough to list in Uber statistics. Well loyal fans, your work didn't go in vain, in Gen 6 you favorite pokemon got not 1, but 2 Mega Evolutions, have at it! The first is buffed Fire Flying type found in pokemon Y exclusively, and can summon Sun for 5 turns, greatly boosting his STABs attacks and providing secondary weather support as well. The other Mega Evolution is basically a wet dream, it turned into a physically inclined Dragon/Fire, with Tough Claws boosting contact moves, removing any thoughts about losing LO/EB damage increases, while at the same time being able to face Fairys squarely in the face and take neutral damage from Water and Ice attacks, how neat is that? Once the pink tinted glasses are taken down, you will still live in a world where SR roams free and faster monster lie ahead. Will you support him?



    Potential Movesets:


    Hell Blitz/Press X


    CharX@Charizardite X
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    Ability: Tough Claws
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 HP

    Dragon Dance
    Flare Blitz/Fire Pwnch
    Dragon Claw/Outrage
    Earth Quake/Thunder Pwnch/Roost



    Set Description:

    Pretty much what you see is what you get. A Dragon/Fire type that has his contact moves buffed, we assume x1.2 but don't get too surprised if is actually x1.3 given the treatment Game Freak is giving him. Your main attack is Flare Blitz, while Dragon Claw provides nice neutral damage and the ability to nail Dragons right in the face without being worried about Fairy switch ins. Earth quake rounds everything else nicely, be it for Rain coverage, bulky fire resists who are weak to Ground, or prediction. Thunder Pwnch handles quiet a few threats that may prove too annoying in the future, such Azumarill, Aerodactyl, Keldeo and Gyradous. +1 Adamant outspeeds standard +1 Nite (also running Adamant) and most importantly Scarf TTar. An adamant Char with full speed investment will still outspeed Jolly Mamoswine. At +2 you outspeed 110 scarfers. A +speed nature makes sure that at the very least, you speed tie with scarf Jirachi and Salamance.



    Calcs:

    *Done with the assumption tough claws x1.2 boost to contact moves, will recalculate soon

    Calculations (open)


    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard ThunderPunch vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 259-307 (65.73 - 77.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Amoonguss: 691-816 (159.95 - 188.88%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 511-603 (78.37 - 92.48%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 168 Def Bronzong: 396-468 (117.15 - 138.46%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 516-608 (127.72 - 150.49%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 154-183 (63.63 - 75.61%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Cobalion: 320-380 (82.9 - 98.44%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 270-318 (70.86 - 83.46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia in sun: 247-292 (55.75 - 65.91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan in sun: 247-292 (64.32 - 76.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 362-427 (112.07 - 132.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Empoleon: 305-360 (82.21 - 97.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Espeon: 388-457 (116.16 - 136.82%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn in rain: 352-420 (100 - 119.31%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress in rain: 292-348 (82.48 - 98.3%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 362-427 (101.11 - 119.27%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Dragon Fang Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Gastrodon: 211-249 (49.53 - 58.45%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    +1 252+ Atk Dragon Fang Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 160-189 (45.45 - 53.69%) -- 57.81% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    +1 252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 240-283 (68.18 - 80.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard ThunderPunch vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 523-619 (148.15 - 175.35%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 542-643 (140.77 - 167.01%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    +1 252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 249-294 (59.28 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 377-446 (115.64 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 288-341 (71.28 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    +1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard ThunderPunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 353-418 (109.28 - 129.41%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    +1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Kyurem-B: 485-571 (106.82 - 125.77%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 282-333 (88.12 - 104.06%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


    +1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 564-665 (154.94 - 182.69%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thick Fat Mamoswine: 308-366 (85.31 - 101.38%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 414-488 (113.73 - 134.06%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard ThunderPunch vs. 248 HP / 32 Def Moltres: 228-269 (59.53 - 70.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 187-221 (48.69 - 57.55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    +1 252+ Atk Dragon Fang Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 244-288 (80.52 - 95.04%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 386-456 (142.43 - 168.26%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 294-348 (89.9 - 106.42%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


    +1 252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in rain: 218-258 (66.66 - 78.89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    +1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 218-259 (55.32 - 65.73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    +1 252+ Atk Dragon Fang Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 32 Def Starmie: 285-336 (88.23 - 104.02%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


    +1 252+ Atk Charcoal Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 402-474 (107.48 - 126.73%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    +1 252+ Atk Dragon Fang Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tornadus: 345-406 (115.38 - 135.78%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    +1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 120 Def Toxicroak: 518-612 (140.76 - 166.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    +1 252+ Atk Expert Belt Charizard Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 396-468 (98.01 - 115.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


    +1 252+ Atk Dragon Fang Charizard Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Zapdos: 210-247 (54.83 - 64.49%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock





    Counters & Checks:


    SR. OK seriously pokemon who outspeed it in general will be able to deal with it pretty quickly, as well as pokemon who aren't OHKO'd by any of it's move but can OHKO in return. As you can see, even Physical walls fall prey to it's brute power, but should they live and manage to status it it's pretty much game over. One notable pokemon to mention is Azumarill, who is immune to Dragon, resist Fire and is bulky enough to not care about EQ even when boosted but even our fairy friend can't take a Thunder pwnch to the face.



    Synergy:


    Hazards are always welcome, as well as spinner support. Team mates who can take care of those nasty pranksters and scout for scarfers as well are appreciated. This set is a good solution for those who want to use Dragons but want something that can stand on it's own facing typical Dragon slaying counters, as well as an answer to Fairy types.


    ------------------------


    X Bulk/Phat Dragon



    Charizard@CharizarditeX
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Tough Claws
    EVs: 252 Speed/136 HP/120 Atk

    Will-O-Wisp
    Roost
    Flare Blitz
    Dragon Claw


    Set Description:

    An interesting take on both Charizard's raw offensive stats, his defensive bulk increase and type change while retaining enough fire power to sweep by. Obviously since this set forgoes Dragon Dance, Jolly with max speed is used, along with enough Atk EVs to retain important OHKOs and the rest invested in bulk. The idea is if the opponent switches in a pokemon that usually threats the X like Excadrill and Azumarill, you burn them first, and then roost off damage or/and attack them if you want afterwards.



    Counters and Checks:

    Heatran obviously walls this back to hell and beyond, so you better have a way dealing with it. Tyranitar is also something that you do not want to stay into even after burning. Scarfed and faster pokemon like the Lati twins and Garchomp that was not caught by a previous burn are also considered checks.



    Synergy:

    Defog support or hazard support are all nice and help to keep X live longer or make your opponents die faster. Something to deal with Heatran is nice, along with fast attackers to take care of speedier threats/dragons are appreciated as well.


    ------------------------

    Niche/Lure X Sets (open)

    Trap & Dance/Why so bait?
    Suggested by Shadow-XIII, EVs and edited by X5Dragon


    Charizard@CharizarditeX
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Tough Claws
    EVs: 252 HP/196 SpD/56 Speed

    Substitute/Fire Spin
    Dragon Dance
    Fire Punch/Roost/Substitute
    Dragon Claw


    Set Description:


    This set takes a lot of inspiration from a similar, Dragonite sub DD set, although this one adds a twist by featuring a reliable way of trapping a pokemon if it's deemed bait worthy. Your main method of dealing damage is by Dragon Claw, although you can slash in Fire Punch as well to keep the almost perfect coverage. The EVs give you maximum bulk so you can DD till you can no more, and the speed EVs ensures you outspeed Timid Alakazam after +1.


    Counters and Checks:


    Phazers and Taunters mostly do well, as well as Physical walls if you haven't managed to build enough Dragon Dances. Sets with only Dragon Claw will find it even harder to sweep should you not provide the necessary support, and Heatran walls this completely, as does Azumaril.


    Synergy:

    Getting rid of Fairys is a good start by either trapping them or finishing them off. Pairing Charizard with other pokemon who can handle his checks and counters is appreciated as well as getting rid of those pesky taunters and phazers.


    --------------------------


    Special Claws/You can't wall me!
    Suggested by banryu, kazu matsumoto, mr. glass, EVs and edited by X5Dragon


    Charizard@CharizarditeX
    Nature: Naive/Rash
    Ability: Tough Claws
    EVs: 152 Atk/100 SpA/252 Speed or 252Atk/100 SpA/152 Speed

    Dragon Dance
    Fire Blast/Overheat
    Dragon Claw/Outrage
    Earth Quake/Thunder Pwnch



    Set Description:

    With those 130/130 offensive stats, X is begging to go mixed at his opponents. With those SpA evs, you will be frying Physical Wall Hippo with a 2HKO with Naive and Fire Blast, let alone the more powerful nature and Over Heat. The rest obviously goes for max speed and throwing the rest at Atk, although you can choose the alternative set that makes you outspeed +130 base speeds at +1 and base +70 without any boosts to emphasize attacking prowess.


    Counters and Checks:

    Much like the purely physical set, any pokemon that can live the 2HKO can threaten him, and depending on the moveslot you are employing either Azumarill or Heatran or going to hard counter you. Pranksters with status moves and Taunters can prevent CharX from doing his job properly...seriously I just wrote all this to avoid mentioning SR too soon.



    Synergy:

    Hazard support and keeping rocks away is a good synergistic choice, as well as getting rid of pokemon Charizard has no hope of defeating due to 4 MSS.


    --------------------------


    Hell Fire/NU-KED
    Suggested by Alphanex20, Edited by X5Dragon


    Charizard@CharizarditeY
    Timid/Modest/Naive
    EVs: 252 SPA/ 252 Speed/ 4HP

    Fire Blast
    Solar Beam
    Focus Blast
    Dragon Pulse/Roost/Earthquake



    Set Description:

    Aiming to make the best out of CharY's huge increase in SpA and the Drought Boost, Fire Blast hits so strong it even manages to 2HKO some resistant pokemon to Fire. Solar Beam benefits from the sun by becoming a 1 turn attack, and heavily dents Water/Rock/Ground pokemon. Focus Blast is a must if you want to have a snow balls chance in hell when facing Heatran...just jk this OHKO's the tranny straight up yo. You could run Dragon Pulse to Dragons who are notoriously Grass/Fire care free if you have something else to handle Heatran confidently. The last slot can either be used to Roost off SR damage or use Earthquake to catch Heatran more reliably.


    Calcs:

    Show Hide

    252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y SolarBeam vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Rotom-W: 234-276 (77.22 - 91.08%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias in sun: 137-162 (45.36 - 53.64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 316-374 (97.83 - 115.78%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock



    Counters & Checks:
    Just use SR like everyone else does. As always, 100 base speed is nothing to gloat about in the OU metagame, even more so with the new MEvos laying around and scarfers. Blissey still tanks and manages to pull off a paralyze most of the time, and I'm not even mentioning Chansey here. Pranksters are annoying and their status moves are never welcome.



    Synergy:

    Spinner. A pokemon that spins. Don't allow hazards on your field. Something that deals with the special walls that aren't weak to either Grass or Fire are appreciated. Getting rid of pranksters as well as Scarfers and other +101 base speeds and above is recommended as well. Charizard could really benefit from Sticky Web support as well.


    ----------------------


    Trapped in Hell/120 Position
    Suggested by X5Dragon



    Charizard@CharizarditeY
    Nature: Naive/Mild
    EVs: 252 SPA/ 252 Speed/ 4HP

    Fire Spin (buffed to 1/8 each turn)
    Solar Beam
    Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse
    Flare Blitz/Fire Blast



    Set Description:

    This set needed auto Drought to work, and since now that has actually happened just give yourself a moment to think about this. You trap a pokemon unexpectedly with Fire Spin. Drought activates, and then with the 159 SpA and your ability to go mixed you proceed to OHKO and 2HKO everything with the right moves. How scary is this? Well...


    Calcs:

    * WITHOUT taking into effect Fire Spin initial damage and trapping damage:

    Show Hide

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Amoonguss in sun: 536-632 (124.07 - 146.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey in sun: 397-468 (60.88 - 71.77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 168 Def Bronzong in sun: 306-362 (90.53 - 107.1%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi in sun: 404-476 (100 - 117.82%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr in sun: 210-247 (55.11 - 64.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 460-542 (119.79 - 141.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Charizard Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 214-254 (66.25 - 78.63%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn in sun: 564-664 (160.22 - 188.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Charizard Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 248-292 (69.27 - 81.56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon: 540-636 (126.76 - 149.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 192-227 (54.54 - 64.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Charizard Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 332-392 (101.84 - 120.24%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Jellicent: 216-256 (53.46 - 63.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi in sun: 404-476 (100 - 117.82%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Charizard Focus Blast vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 332-392 (81.97 - 96.79%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Charizard Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 182-216 (50 - 59.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone in sun: 356-422 (126.24 - 149.64%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Politoed: 304-358 (79.16 - 93.22%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 330-390 (102.16 - 120.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togekiss in sun: 210-247 (56.14 - 66.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 SpA Charizard Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 440-520 (108.91 - 128.71%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zapdos in sun: 229-271 (59.79 - 70.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO




    Counters and Checks:


    I've ran out of SR jokes Pretty much nothing. Not even Blissey lives. Notice how precisely it OHKOs SpD Jirachi and Celebi WITHOUT attack investment. That being set, it does suffer from 4 MSS and choosing Focus Blast or Dragon Pulse can either mean trouble dealing with Dragons are Heatran. Also, this set may become too popular for it's own good and the next thing the opponent will be sending is something scarfed.



    Synergy:


    Spinning = Winning. Also, depending on your third coverage move, either deal with Heatran or Dragons with an adequate pokemon. Be also sure to get rid of any pokemon that outspeeds and OHKOs you.


    ---------------------------


    Sunny Mix/Sun Blitz
    Suggested by Accidental Greed and mr. glass, edited by X5Dragon


    Charizard@CharizarditeY
    Nature: Naive/Naughty/Mild
    EVs: 252 SPA/ 252 Speed/ 4HP

    Earth Quake
    Solar Beam
    Roost/Dragon Pulse
    Flare Blitz


    Set Description:

    This set is very similar to the above trapping set, but instead of Fire Spin you choose to use more options for a more complete coverage. As always Fire Blitz is a must to get by Special Walls such as Blissey, while Solar Beam takes advantage of Drought and blasts right through bulky Waters such as Jellicent. Heatran and TTar won't enjoy either EQ or Focus Blast while Dragons won't switch in for the fear of HP Ice or even Dragon Pulse.


    Counters and Checks:


    This set doesn't suffer from the 4MSS the trapper version does, however it trades coverage with the ability to trap pokemon and as such, the opponent can switch to someone who can live a hit and outspeed/OHKO you in return, although such pokemon are few in number.



    Synergy:


    Hazards, let someone provide it for you, and let someone else keep them away from your field. Be sure to scout scarfers early on and deal with pranksers with status too.



    ---------------------------


    Fiery Specs/Nostalgia Trip
    Suggested by Mr.glass


    Charizard@Choice Specs
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Blaze/Solar Power
    EVs: 252 SPA/ 252 Speed/ 4HP

    Fire Blast
    Air Slash
    Hidden Power Grass/Solar Beam
    Flamethrower/Focus Blast



    Set Description:

    The thought of ever using Charizard without his stone might cause severe headaches to some, but seeing how this isn't an OU only thread and some players might rely on brute, specs power and even accompanying sun to torch everything, this might come in handy when bluffing on sun teams or just plain Fire Blast spamming else where...The slashes are there for whether or not you are using a sun team, and the last slot depends on whether you want to aim for Heatran and other fight weak pokemons or just want something more reliable accuracy wise.



    Calcs:

    Show Hide

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in sun: 343-405 (52.6 - 62.11%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon in sun: 307-362 (66.3 - 78.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune in sun: 259-306 (64.1 - 75.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



    Counters and Checks:


    SR plz Because this set depends on such raw power, your traditional special walls might not even handle the heat (#punny), however seeing how it's a specs set, once the card is revealed your opponent can go around playing with whatever move you are using and send someone who can resist or even set up upon you, especially when using something other than Fire Blast. Pranksters can come and shut you down especially with T-wave, and pokemon who outlive any of these attacks can most of the time punish Charizard hard.


    Synergy:

    Spin baby spin! Sun support is nice, as it also helps with the bluffing factor should you carry another Mega worthy pokemon. Usage in OU and lower tiers if possible can use hazard and paralysis support, especially Stick web. Keeping rocks at bay is of outmost importance, as is felling Heatran and having reliable switch tos whenever the opponent has you figured out.

    ===============================
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  2. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,482
    I need to get this off my chest because it's been bugging me since Charizard X got released. People have been consistently saying that Charizard will suck despite these boosts, but I have to disagree with them. The way I see it, Mega Charizard X is like DD Salamence, but better in just about every way. It may not resist Scald like Salamence does, but it DOES have an immunity to Burn, meaning it can set up on things like Jellicent and Tentacruel and other bulky Waters that rely on Scald. It also gets STAB on Flare Blitz and Outrage, which Salamence would kill for. On top of that, it has superior defensive bulk and resists Steel and is neutral to Fairy, which I predict will be important in the coming generation. Finally, Charizard X has Tough Claws, which is basically the same as a LO boost (20% versus 30%) with no recoil damage. I will say that Charizard X needs more spin support than Salamence does, BUT if it can get in without Rocks before transforming, its typing is great, defensively. This should give it ample time to transform and set up with Dragon Dance. The only reason I can see Charizard X not having a place in OU is that it takes up a Mega slot. Once some of them are banned (obviously Mega Gengar, and I can see Mega Lucario being suspected as well), I think Charizard will be more than viable in OU. Just you wait. People only say that it will suck because they can't move past the "Charizard is for noobs" mentality. Not that there aren't decent arguments for why it might have trouble, but it will be decent, I think. And I think people would be able to see that if they just gave it a chance.
  3. OverlordDerp

    OverlordDerp

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    38
    With 80/120/85 defenses, is it possible he could run a Belly Drum --> Outrage Kit? He could likely switch into some resisted attack, maybe an EQ, and start setting up in their face. Not sure how this would pan out considering how risky Belly Drum is, but it's worth a look into.
    Denny-Jo Miller and X5Dragon like this.
  4. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
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    Well, it does take a bit of prediction and luck for your opponent to not use a status move. I fear that it's speed and lack of priority would mean when he does switch in something else, it will be usually a counter who outspeeds. Also, for self preservation purposes you would be running something like Flame Charge to avoid kill yourself after recoil.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2013
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  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    To add to what Halcyon said, Mega Charizard X also doesn't give a fuck about priority, unlike Salamence. It resists Bullet Punch and is neutral to Ice Shard, two common ways to revenge kill Salamence. With spin support, this thing is gonna wreck some serious shit.
  6. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

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    I agree with radica, i dont think those stats are the exact ones, but whatever.

    I personally think Mega Zard X is gonna be the standard Charizard forme we're gonna be seeing once, like Halcyon said, the broke probably suspected ones are gone, since. Tho, i think Mega Zard Y has potential in OU as a massive hitter and a support for the nerfed sun teams, and, as a lead, it doesnt seem to be too bad at gaining advantage asap on the opponent.

    As for the X forme, i wanna ask: is Jolly really that necessary? or is Adamant a good option, since,as i see it, we will keep the standard speed tier for scarfers, aka 108+, and charizard doesnt have the problem Dragonite has in having to run Jolly to outspeed these scarfers (albeit, this setback is diminished in a way by E-speed), and, with nice Special bulk and a relatively good defensive typing, a +2 isnt out of question for me.
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  7. Alphanex20

    Alphanex20

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    Not to bash CharX, but it is wrecked by Dugtrio if you don't have any boosts or are Paralyzed. IMO, you must run something dedicated to removing dugtrio or a suicide hazard lead + spinblocker (to keep its sash broken). And yeah MCX is only 2x weak to SR but it is affected by Spikes. Its amazing, but just not as broken as people want it to be. On top of it all, it still takes 4x SR damage on the switch before you Mevo. MCY, however, seems better as a faster hitter (not needing much for boosts) and being untrappable, it can come in and blast away with little fear (I doubt heatran wants to risk getting blasted by Focus Blast/HP Ground). It can also help sun teams deal with TTar (who could wall and OHKO/2HKO/Pursuit-Trap DroughtTales).

    Example MCY (based off of the one I soft resetted for and Super Trained ingame):
    Set Name--Hellfire
    Charizard@CharizarditeY
    Modest/Timid Nature
    EVs: 252satk 252spe 4sdef/def/hp
    Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    Solarbeam/Roost
    Focus Blast
    Air Slash/Roost
    EVs and Nature are self-explanatory (put the last 4 EVs wherever and use the nature you prefer). Despite getting a power drop, Flamethrower/FB hurt off of 159 base SAtk with STAB and Drought(seriously GF!?). Solarbeam is for Waters (see below). Air Slash is solid backup STAB that still stings off of that huge SAtk. Focus Blast is a MUST for Heatran and TTar (the two nastiest switch-ins you face). I am willing to bet both are OHKOed/2KOed (or close enough).
    Checks/Counters:

    Stealth Rock--nuff said (but see below)
    Blissey--I do not have any solid calcs here, but considering this thing hits harder than unboosted Kyogre, I doubt the blob will appreciate repeated hits. However, it can TWave or toxic you (which both are annoying) and can easily stall until the sun fades and you cant touch it.
    Tyranitar--Safe to say this was the bane of Charizard's existence in OU before. It could easily take any hit bar focus blast (which had a penchant for missing) then either OHKO it with a rock move or set up rocks to cripple it. Sure it cannot outspeed you without a scarf or paralysis helping it, but the threat was real as ever. However, if it comes in before you Mevo, drought will remove the sand SDef boost and you can blast it with solarbeam (which cannot miss) followed by whatever you wish, just be careful of scarf TTar and NEVER solarbeam after it has come in, lest it mega evolve in your face and reactivate the sandstorm.
    Heatran--Is immune to you fire moves and can blast you with an even stronger FB/Flamethrower (if its offensive) or toxic/roar (if its defensive). HP Ground isn't reliable (see below), but it will not like Focus Blasts to the face.
    Politoed--(see below on solarbeam vs it) I had to mention this, its a nuisance, yes, but not at all hard to switch in to since it really cant hit that hard outside of specs variants, and even then you could just run something immune to the water STAB or heavily resists it (like jellicent or ferrothorn). Beyond that, I don't think offensive toeds can take air slashes or focus blasts very well.

    EDIT: Scarfers with rock or electric moves--again, I had to mention these, but they are easy to see coming and not many of them are hard to counter (Lando and Gliscor stop Terrakion cold, Thundy-T and Rotom don't appreciate Gastrodon/Ferrothorn).

    Notes:
    Roost is an option over Solar if you fear other weathers (or are in no preview) or Air Slash if you don't want the secondary STAB coverage.
    DO NOT SUGGEST HIDDEN POWER--it has been severely nerfed this gen and will probably be borderline useless on this poke (HP Ground on Heatran is blocked by balloon and doesn't outclass Focus Blast and HP Grass only has 7.5 base power more than air slash on 2x weak waters).
    MCY for doubles is probably just as good if not better with STAB Sun-Boosted Heat Waves and an EQ immunity (anyone want to see a combo of a Banded EQ + MCY Heat Wave?)
    I have personally discovered that the Drought Ability does not activate when you bring regular charizard in. So you can have it in not-Mevolved and if you opponent sends in a Politoed you CAN Mevo then solarbeam it to death (Both TTars gets wrecked by Focus Blast and don't ask about abomasnow lol) but it really isn't hard to switch in on toed anyway.
    Remember that drought only lasts five turns now, so you can run spinners that don't appreciate sun like starmie, tentacruel, excadrill (if it gets unbanned due to the sand stream nerf), or the new guy greninja.

    A bit over-detailed, but no one has made an analysis of Y yet (and I really like this thing). Also, could someone run calcs of this thing against TTar (both forms), Heatran, bulky and offensive Politoed and (for the lolz) Blissey.

    EDIT: Would also like to ask if the Mega Stone can be hit by Trick for the following scenario:
    You kill something with MCY, opponent brings in a scarf Rotom-W
    If they Trick predicting the Gastro/Ferro, what happens if you stay in?
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
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  8. radica

    radica

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    Solar Beam OHKO offensive Politoed
    (86.45 - 102.08%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO defensive Politoed
    Focus Blast (97.83 - 115.78%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO Offensive Heatran
    (90.59 - 107.12%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO Scarf Heatran
    2HKO SDef Heatran
    OHKO Tyranitar
  9. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    22.2% of people believe neither MegaCharizard form will see the lights of OU ... God help us all
    Drought backed by approximately base 159 SAtk should be more than enough to roast the entire UU, NU, RU metagame. There is simply no way they would let that monster roam in any lower tiers. Stealth Rock? That argument definitely didn't justify Volcarona sinking into UU folks.
    Dragon Fire STAB coverage is pretty amazing. Receiving an Expert Belt boost on moves such as Outrage, Flare Blitz and ThunderPunch is pretty impressive.
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  10. Oddish is the best

    Oddish is the best

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    It could be BL until other M-Evo's are banned which isn't technically OU... lol but in all seriousness the Charizard M-Evo's are actually pretty decent and will probably see more OU play than they deserve because it's Charizard.
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  11. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    I think the standard Scarf tier is either 100 (Scarf Salamence, Jirachi) or 110 (Gengar, Latios). All of those run +Speed natures except Rachi who can choose either +Atk or Speed. Charizard with full speed investment will always outspeed Scarf Tyranitar at +1 even with Adamant so that's important to note. At +2 you outspeed 110+ Scarfers with Adamant as well. I'll slash it in.

    This set seems to be a good show case of what CharY can do. I would say that Solar Beam is a main stay for this set and cannot be slashed for anything else, and since Dragons almost always resist the Fire/Grass combo, Dragon pulse can be a nice substitute for Focus Blast bar Heatran of course.

    Charizard@CharizarditeY
    Timid/Modest Nature
    EVs: 252 SPA/ 252 Speed/ 4HP

    Fire Blast
    Solar Beam
    Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse
    Air Slash/Roost

    radica also mentioned the prospects of OHKOing a Politoed, which also leads us to experiment with a trapper set:

    Charizard@CharizarditeY
    Timid/Modest/Naive Nature
    EVs: 252 SPA/ 252 Speed/ 4HP

    Fire Spin
    Solar Beam
    Focus Blast
    Flare Blitz/Air Slash/Roost


    Our main targets here are Politoed and Tyranitar although you can trap others as well. For example:

    252 SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in sun: 199-235 (30.52 - 36.04%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    But when you use Flare Blitz:

    0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey in sun: 397-468 (60.88 - 71.77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    I'll leave both sets to be discussed for a while before adding them in the OP.

    Edit: Mega Stones cannot be tricked or knocked off.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    - 252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y SolarBeam vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Rotom-W: 234-276 (77.22 - 91.08%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    - 252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias in sun: 137-162 (45.36 - 53.64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    - 252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 316-374 (97.83 - 115.78%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Thank god we have Goodra, as Mega Charizard Y massacres any of the pivots offensive teams can use (Latias is 2HKOed by Fire Blast, can't even OHKO back, and is Pursuit bait) to tank Fire attacks. I will do calcs against a 252 HP set with Assault Vest (85 HP / 140 SpD):

    - 252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Goodra in sun: 86-102 (22.99 - 27.27%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

    While

    - 252+ SpA (115 SpA) Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 186-220 (62.62 - 74.07%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    We are saved!
  13. Magicfire

    Magicfire

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    When I first saw the stats and abilities, I thought that Charizard was going to be way overpowered. But now, the main reason I think Charizard will have trouble in the higher tiers is because his speed isn't too great, and it sure isn't getting higher than Base 100 without a Dragon Dance or Flame Charge, at least for the moment. With so many faster threats that can KO Charizard X or Charizard Y, like Latios, Thundurus, and Garchomp, Charizard's Mega Evolutions might not be too difficult to take down. They certainly can't keep on switching out and back in time after time again with that Stealth Rock weakness as well.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
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  14. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    120 Df on CharX? For real? I have a hard time believing this. O_O Everyone and their mother and their mother's cousin and their mother's cousin's boss is going to want to use CharX. I mean, Black and Blue Fire/Dragon? It could have the stats of Charmander and it'd be overused. Kids are suckers for that stuff.

    However, competitive viability is far too great. I was going to say Uber, but with 100 Spd and no item faster Dragons will have the upper hand. Standard scarf Latios can easily take out even a CharX, especially with Stealth Rock. As usual, the real debate depends on how much you want CharX over another Megamon. CharY at least has a lot of utility specifically for Sun based teams.
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  15. Thunderhorse

    Thunderhorse

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    On the subject of the (needlessly) increased attack stat, has anyone ever given thought to a wallbreaker MegaZardY? I remember Solar Power Zard being able to completely fry almost anything in two hits, and the Mega Y form has decently comparable stats with it. Since it lacks anything boosting speed or special attack (and since it's special movepool still sucks anyway), maybe you could run a semi-Tyranniboah-ish set with it. Something like Fire Blast/Solar Beam/Focus Punch/Substitute (Maybe Roost > Substitute if you don't feel comfortable with only 5-4 subs at most and want to try a bit more raw predictions)? Send it in on a wall with low attack power or something it resists (you might be able to get in easy switches on Fairy moves with increased special def and a resistance to fairy that MegaZardX can't boast), sub on the switch. What will probably be sent out is either Blissey, TTar, or a bulky water (not always, but most commonly). Blissey and TTar are both dealt with Focus Punch with the correct EV investment (or you can go Mega and use Solarbeam on TTar), bulky waters are dealt with going Mega and Solarbeaming. Even though Zard is slow compared to sweepers, it is more than fast enough to outspeed walls that don't usually invest in speed so you can play around with the correct EVs needed in attack.

    This is by no means a perfect set up, as it gets countered by dragons (most of which will probably fry to Fire Blast anyway though. If you're against a Dragonite though, you're kinda SOL) and Rotom-H, and it can be hard to weave it in and out of battle if you don't have Stealth Rock cleared on your field, but it should be able to punch some holes in the opponent's team even by just spamming sun-boosted fire blasts. It will almost never sweep and win you the game singlehandedly, but it could open up the door for one of your classic superstar sweepers to come in. You can also enjoy the benefit of the enemy probably thinking you're running MegaZardX and trying to incorrectly predict around that.

    Just throwing something out that might make his increased attack stat not a complete waste. I don't even know whether it'll be good or not, but I'm kinda interested in playing around with that. As far as pure sweeping potential goes, it's outshone by MegaZardX completely since it not only has a better movepool, but can increase its speed and attack with Dragon Dance. But I think it'll have its niche.

    MegaZardX's build is easy though. Flare Blitz or Fire Punch, Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Dragon Dance. Done, get ready to sweep teams.

    As a side note, I do like that trapper build that was presented earlier in the topic. Very cool.
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  16. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo Shots fired

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    alexwolf your latias calcs are off, 99% of the good OU players say that latias should never run under 72 HP EVs, because that is the absolute minimum for latias to do it's best in the OU metagame
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  17. muzillu

    muzillu Banned deucer.

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    I think both Char's are good, but I personally prefer Charizard Y for aesthetic reasons and for his monstrous Sp Atk; not to mention the fact that he can viably run Solarbeam without charge time and because Charizard X will still be switched in to 4x SR weakness anyway. And yes, Ground attacks affect Char X. As a hardcore Charizard fan, I sincerely hope either one or two of these Megas enter OU (preferably Y if not both), and you can be sure I'll be using them anyway ;)
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  18. Duckster

    Duckster

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    Voted Y. A Drought is still a Drought.

    Imo Yizard will serve as this generation's premier Sun bringer. So many fast threats get Taunt to shut down Stealth Rock. If anything, Prankster key is going to be the main entry hazzard, tossing Spikes out to break sashes.

    I see it killing Steels for grass types or killing dragons for ally fire types.

    Fire Blast / Heat Wave
    Solar Beam / Dragon Pulse / Focus Blast
    Focus Blast / Dragon Pulse
    Protect / Tailwind

    Depends what your team looks like. You could even run 4 attacks if you want to have a defensive switch against a rock or jacked Sp. Def water type.

    Heat Wave is a great spread attack in 2v2 though this thing is not a Solar Power zard holding Fire Gem :(

    Re: X

    Probably could cause a Ruckus in the old 1v1 OU metagame.
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  19. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Voted both, because the question is phrased horribly. A Charizard is a Charizard, and if Zard is OU so are both his Mega forms.
  20. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Duck Hunting Dawg
    is an Artist

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    the fact that charzard x and y are mega pokes kinda messes it up since it has to switch in as a flying/fire first then possibly get half their hp stripped from stealth rocks so roost is pretty much a necessity. Kinda of a shame really...
  21. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    I don't think they NEED roost, if you're running a Mega Charizard you had better focus your entire team on stopping the Rocks.
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  22. halodeoxys

    halodeoxys

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    It might be viable to lead with zard holding a stone and evolve it before stealth rocks come out and work to just ruin as much as it can before it faints like a Darmanitan, or switch out if you're using Zard X as the rocks will do half as much than it would with regular or Mega Y. If using it in OU then magnezone and starmie will probably be decent partners for it.
    That being said imo zardzy will be UU, OU imo will just be a little too much.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2013
  23. DTHaseo

    DTHaseo

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    Can someone be so kind as to run some calcs with fire punch? While I like flare blitz a lot, (plus the animation just looks sick with Zard X), I'm not a fan of recoil damage. If the calcs come out to be pretty positive in comparison to flare blitz it could definitely be worth a slash IMO.

    Edit: Also, both zards will be viable regardless of SR, weaknesses, etc in OU. There are too many pokemon that also hold true to this same testament. The only thing that can definitely hurt their usage is the mega-stone slot as others have said.

    Edit 2: Forgot about the on site calc. Ran them, and I'm happy to say that fire punch definitely seems like it's worth the slash if you would rather not deal with the recoil. It'll miss out on some OHKO's though. This was all with a jolly nature though.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  24. I2edShift

    I2edShift

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    I think both of them will be in OU... Frankly they're way to powerful to be in anything else, and both will probably be worthless in Ubers. Being much more rounded, CharX is probably going to be much more common, though the Rock/Ground/Dragon weakness has me questioning just how useful it will really be. Dragon, Earthquake and Rock type moves are all pretty common.

    Even with it's x4 Stealth Rock weakness, CharY is either going to be on sun-oriented teams, need a lot of team support, or be a special nuke and/or wall-breaker. I can also see him earning a spot on hyper-offensive teams to, just completely unsupported. Simply lead with him to forgo hazards, Mevo right off the bat, then proceed to nuke everything (159 SpA + Drought Fire Blast? lol) that's thrown at you with Fire Blast, Solar Beam, Dragon Pulse, and Focus Blast/Earthquake.

    It's pretty much mandatory to maximize speed. CharY is pretty easy to KO even if it isn't hit with Stealth Rock beforehand (Choice Scarf + Rock attack duh). Terrakion will pretty much be the bane of CharY's existence, even without a Scarf it still out-speeds it. Also, like justTDUBBit mentioned below, having a charizard in your party is a dead givaway that you're running a Mega Evo on it. Doing anything else with it is a waste of a team slot.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  25. Pata Hikari

    Pata Hikari

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    MegaCharizardY I can see as a valuable force for sun teams to win the Weather War, especially with the new mechanics. Rain is up? No problem, Charizard MegaEvolves to bring back the sun, sure it's just five turns with him, but that still turns the match's momentum on your side.

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