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Charizard

Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by Zippo, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. Zippo

    Zippo

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    [​IMG]

    Charizard
    78/84/78/109/85/100
    Abilities:
    Blaze:Power Up Fire-type moves if the user is at 1/3 health or lower
    Solar Power:User loses 1/8 of hp each turn but its special attack rises by 50%

    Lvl Up moves:
    Show Hide
    Charizard: Lv1: Dragon Claw
    Lv1: Shadow Claw
    Lv1: Air Slash
    Lv1: Scratch
    Lv1: Growl
    Lv1: Ember
    Lv1: Smokescreen
    Lv7: Ember
    Lv10: Smokescreen
    Lv17: Dragon Rage
    Lv21: Scary Face
    Lv28: Fire Fang
    Lv32: Bursting Flame
    Lv36: Wing Attack
    Lv41: Slash
    Lv47: Flamethrower
    Lv56: Fire Spin
    Lv62:Purgatory
    Lv71: Heat Wave
    Lv77: Flare Blitz


    TM moves:
    Show Hide
    TM01 - Claw Sharpen
    TM02 - Dragon Claw
    TM05 - Roar
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM22 - Solar Beam
    TM26 - Earthquake
    TM27 - Return
    TM28 - Dig
    TM31 - Brick Break
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM35 - Flamethower
    TM38 - Fire Blast
    TM39 - Rock Tomb
    TM40 - Aerial Ace
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Nitro Charge
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM48 - Sing A Round
    TM49 - Echo Voice
    TM50 - Overheat
    TM52 - Focus Blast
    TM56 - Fling
    TM58 - Free Fall
    TM59 - Incinerate
    TM61 - Will-O-Wisp
    TM65 - Shadow Claw
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM75 - Swords Dance
    TM78 - Level Ground
    TM80 - Rock Slide
    TM82 - Dragon Tail
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM94 - Rock Smash
    HM01 - Cut
    HM02 - Fly
    HM04 - Strength


    Egg Moves:
    Show Hide
    Belly Drum
    AncientPower
    Bite
    Outrage
    Dragon Dance
    Beat Up
    Crunch
    Dragon Rush
    Metal Claw
    Flare Blitz
    Counter
    Dragon Pulse
    Focus Punch



    Charizard did not get that much this gen, but at least it got some nice ups
    Solar Power:With Drought ninetales charizard can fit into sunny day teams as a suicide (due to Solar Power and you may hold a Life Orb too) sweeper with his nice BP moves
    Stat Up moves:Claw sharpen, Belly Drum and Dragon Dance are all great stat up moves. Nitro Charge is outclassed by Dragon Dance but it can be used for killing weak opponents while boosting your speed


    Possible Sets
    Set 1:Choice Scarfer
    Ability:Solar Power/Blaze
    Nature:Naive/Hasty
    EVs:72 Attack/186 Sp Attack/252 Speed
    Item:Choice Scarf
    ~Fire Blast/Flamethrower
    ~Earthquake
    ~Hidden Power Grass/Hidden Power Ice/Hidden Power Electric
    ~Air Slash/Crunch/Outrage
    This Set takes advantage of Charizard's Above-Average attacking stats. 72 attack evs are there to ensure that Charizard OHKO's any set that Heatran runs(except shuca berry version) and OHKO The standard Calm Mind Mismagius with a crunch with SR in play 100% of the time. The other moves are there for coverage. Fire Blast/Flamethrower does good damage on everything which doesnt resist it and hidden power of your choice for Swampert/Dragons/Gyarados


    Set 2:Belly Drummer
    Ability:Blaze
    Nature:Adamant/Jolly
    Evs:252 attack/4 defense/252 speed
    Ivs:30 HP
    Item:Salac Berry
    ~Belly Drum
    ~Substitute
    ~Fire Punch
    ~Earthquake/Thunder Punch
    The well-known belly drummer set. Scare something, substitute on the switch belly drum behind the sub and get a +6 on attack while getting a +1 on your speed due to Salac Berry as well. Then sweep unless your opponent's team has a Milotic/Slowbro in it


    Set 3:Sunny Day
    Nature:Timid/Modest
    Ability:Solar Power
    Item:Life Orb/Wise Glasses
    Evs:4 hp/252 Special Attack/252 Speed
    ~Fire Blast/Flamethrower
    ~Hidden Power Ice/Hidden Power Electric
    ~Air Slash
    ~Solarbeam/Dragon Pulse/Focus blast
    With sun up and solar power activated fire blast will do a shitload of damage on anything which doesnt x4 resist it(84.3% - 99.2% to slowbro, 48.7% - 57.6% to slowking and an amazing 59.7% - 70.3% to blissey from a Modest Max SpA Charizard with Life Orb). Rest moves are there for coverage

    Any opinions and/or any other sets you guys can suggest?
  2. KokoaKiwi

    KokoaKiwi

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    Why not run SolarBeam on the last set instead of HP grass? Other than that, I can see that last set working once Stealth Rocks are gone.
  3. Zippo

    Zippo

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    oh yes sorry forgot he can learn it :P
    i will edit the OP
  4. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

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    I'd run Wise Glasses or Leftovers on the Sunny Day Abuse set. I was wrong for earlier suggesting Sitrus, as a few turns of leftovers would have the same effect. Solarbeam over a Hidden Power as a more reliable means of dealing with enemy bulky waters. I'd also run Focus Blast if you have a way of dealing with Shandaara, or Dragon Pulse if you have a way of dealing with Heatran, as both I see would be rather critical enemies to Sun outside of Drizzletoad.
  5. Murkglow

    Murkglow

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    Why run HP Grass over Solar Beam? Because it will be crazy easy this gen to just swap weather on him at a moment's notice? You plan to throw Solar Beam and Politoad/Tyranitar pops in, you are forced to waste a turn charging while he can either KO you (if he is faster) or then swap to a grass absorber. Either way it's a free turn/weather set up for him.

    Not to say Solar Beam can't be used on a dedicated sunny day team (and indeed Char might need the extra damage or coverage a different Hp might provide) but there are very definate down sides to running it.
  6. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

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    You raise a fine point. Though, I would think if Stealth Rock is prevalant, Charizard might take the place of lategame cleanup after the rocks are spun and a potential Politoad is taken care of.

    I would reccomend HP Grass slashed alongside Solarbeam for this reason.
  7. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    1: "Oh yeah, a Torterra. This is going to be easy pickings. I might as well switch from this Jumpluff/Venusaur into a Charizard who can shut it down."

    *Possible Stealth Rocks*

    1: "No matter. I see that SubSeed coming from a mile away."

    *Rock Slide KO's Charizard*

    1: "... WHAT?!"

    2: "Switch-ins to Fire or Ice types are totally predictable against a Torterra. Oh, and sunlight was kind of a giveaway, just so you know."
  8. KokoaKiwi

    KokoaKiwi

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    I still think SolarBeam is the best choice. Kill the toad, and you're free to spam 'beam.
    Besides Drizzletoed and Tyranitar, I can't think of a good reason to choose HP Grass, since Hippowdown can't touch you unless it carries Stone Edge.
  9. DarkRadiance

    DarkRadiance

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    Hum... Charizard would be great with Starmie's and Ninetales' Support. With Drought (9tales), Solar Power, SolarBeam and Rapid Spin (Starm) can be really great.

    252 SpAtk Modest LO with Sun Charizard calcs vs. Standard Wishbliss (252 HP / 0 SpD): 59% - 70% O____O
  10. Zippo

    Zippo

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    Yes i wrote this on the Sunny Day abuse set. amazing damage output
  11. relix

    relix

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    actually
    i was thinking of the new turtle thing being a good partner for Charizard, but if Zard is going to be on a sunny day team then a water type won't be the best partner available. Probably a physical based grass type with resistance to rock, like Birijion with its fighting STAB that can rip apart blissey and tyranitar or Nattorei who is more physically bulky, can set up rocks, and handle the threats above if they don't have a fire type move.
  12. Saint Ashes

    Saint Ashes

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    You're not always guaranteed to have sun up, so I wouldn't rule Hidden Power Grass off of his sets altogether. Otherwise you'll have Politoad's coming in and ruining your solar rampage.
  13. Ulysses

    Ulysses

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    You should add in Focus Blast and Air Slash to some of the sets.
  14. Lazyboy0337

    Lazyboy0337

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    3. Rock Slide? No Stone Edge? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  15. Zippo

    Zippo

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    air slash is definitely useable in the choice scarfer set but i dont think that focus blast can be used in any other set due to low accuracy
  16. iruchii

    iruchii

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    Timid 252 SpA Life Orb Charizard Hidden Power Grass against standard support Politoed: 32.8% - 39.1%

    It's going to ruin your rampage regardless.
  17. Zippo

    Zippo

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    if you want to use him as an all-out sweeper you have to support him with ninetales for permanent sun. DrizzleToed can ruin, not only charizard, but every sunny day pokemon. Drizzletoad has to be taken out before you can sweep with sunnyday abuser Zard
  18. Ulysses

    Ulysses

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    Focus Blast is Charizard's only way of hitting Rock types and Heatran.
  19. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Or run a LifeOrb Claw Sharpen set with Focus Blast, Fire Blast and Earthquake.The sole issue is Accuracy here, atleast CS will help in 100% accurate Focus Blast and Fire Blast.
  20. Envoy.of.Water

    Envoy.of.Water

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    Which is why Clorophyll Venusaur is a great partner, I think. It has a type advantage over all of the perma-weather inducers (Poison for Abomasnow), has a massive speed boost in sunlight and can take out Drizzletoed with STAB Grass moves.

    A Ninetales/Venusaur/Charizard/spinner core could be devastating in the right hands, I think.
  21. Zippo

    Zippo

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    Ulysses:it has access to earthquake which is listed in choice scarf set and its there JUST for OHKOing heatran. If you are so worried about rocks use hidden power grass (most rock types have weak SpD and a dual type that is x4 weak to grass, if they are part steel use earthquake or fire blast)

    Calm Pokemaster:if you use claw sharpen its better to use earthquake since you get a boost on attack too

    envoy of water:and saur is only one of the counter which can be brought on for drizzletoad
  22. lumpor

    lumpor

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    For the drummer set, isn't it better to use nitro charge instead of fire punch? It'll still basically OHKO anything that doesn't resist it, and it ensures charizard will be faster than all scarfed pokemon as well
  23. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

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    I have doubts even a +6 Nitro Charge would kill certain things.
  24. Zippo

    Zippo

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    Nitro charge is not always a OHKO on common walls like chansey

    So yeah if you want to get walled by chansey you can use nitro charge:P
  25. Envoy.of.Water

    Envoy.of.Water

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    I know there are others, but Saur does have great synergy with both Char and Ninetales. Clorophyll and Synthesis abuse are made easier by Ninetales, it has a better offensive typing than most of the faster Clorophyll users (like Leafeon) and better stats than the others (Jumpluff).

    Additionally, it also has the ability to take Water and Electric type moves aimed at Charizard and shrug them off, whereas Charizard can take Fire type moves aimed at Venusaur. Yeah, other Grass types can boast this too, but few can boast all of Venusaur's advantages at the same time. Vileplume, Victreebel, Sunflora, Bellossom, Shiftry and Tropius are all slower and don't hit nearly as hard. Ludicolo and Cacturne want to stay out of the sun, Shiftry has worse defensive typing (x4 Bug weakness). Leafeon has worse typing and a worse physical STAB move (Power Whip > Leaf Blade), Jumpluff has horrid stats, etc.

    Basically, yes, Venusaur is just one among many Drizzletoed counters, but it is arguably one of the best ones and it has fantastic synergy with Charizard.

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