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Charmander

Discussion in 'BW LC' started by Banryu, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. Banryu

    Banryu

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    CHAR~!
    [​IMG]
    Name: Charmander
    Type: [​IMG]

    Base Stats:
    HP: 39
    Attack: 52
    Defense: 43
    Speed: 65
    Sp. Atk: 60
    Sp. Def: 50

    Abilities:
    Blaze - The power of this Pokemon's Fire-type attacks increase when its HP falls below 1/3rd.
    Solar Power (Dream World) - The Pokemon's Special Attack increases by 1.5x while in sunlight, but the Pokemon's HP decreases every turn.

    Movepool:
    Level-Up:
    Show Hide
    1. Scratch
    1. Growl
    7. Ember
    10. Smokescreen
    16. Dragon Rage
    19. Scary Face
    25. Fire Fang
    28. Bursting Flame
    34. Slash
    37. Flamethrower
    43. Fire Spin
    46. Purgatory - Fire-type; Special; 100 BP; 50 Accuracy; 5 PP; Effect: 100% chance to Burn.


    Black & White TM/HM:
    Show Hide
    TM01 Claw Sharpen - Dark-type; Other; BP / Accuracy: --; 15 PP; Effect: Raises the user's Attack and Accuracy one level each.
    TM02 Dragon Claw
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM17 Protect
    TM21 Frustration
    TM27 Return
    TM28 Dig
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM40 Aerial Ace
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Nitro Charge - Fire-type; Physical; 50 BP; 100 Accuracy; 20 PP; Effect: Raises the user's Speed one level.
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM48 Sing a Round
    TM49 Echo Voice
    TM50 Overheat
    TM56 Fling
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM65 Shadow Claw
    TM75 Swords Dance
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    TM94 Rock Smash
    HM01 Cut
    HM04 Strength


    Egg Moves:
    Show Hide
    Belly Drum
    Ancientpower
    Bite
    Outrage
    Beat Up
    Dragon Dance
    Crunch
    Dragon Rush
    Metal Claw
    Flare Blitz
    Counter
    Dragon Pulse
    Focus Punch


    Gen IV Exclusive Moves:
    Show Hide
    Headbutt
    Fire Punch
    Thunderpunch
    Fury Cutter
    Snore
    Swift
    Heat Wave
    Mud-Slap


    Potential Sets:
    1. SolarMander @ Berry Juice / Expert Belt

    Nature: Timid
    EVs: (WIP)
    Ability: Solar Power
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power Grass
    - Rock Slide / Dragon Pulse
    - Dragon Dance / Nitro Charge

    • Solar Power raises Charmander's Special Attack to a whopping 22
    • Shallow but workable Special movepool
    • Fire Blast + HP Grass has good neutral coverage
    • Fire/Grass is resisted by Fire (plus Mantyke) and Dragon; handled by Rock Slide and Dragon Pulse respectively
    • can use Dragon Dance to become more of a sweeper, also boosts Rock Slide's power
    • can use Nitro Charge for more Special-ized sets, but is blocked by Flash Fire
    • reliant on sunlight for damage output, so weak to weather-inducers, whether automatic or otherwise; Vulpix support would help a ton
    • best Solar Power user in Little Cup (the only other being Sunkern)
    • loses to priority
    2. Dragon Dancer (physical)
    Charmander @ Life Orb / Berry Juice
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 44 HP / 180 Atk / 12 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
    Ability: Blaze
    - Dragon Dance
    - Flare Blitz
    - Brick Break
    - Thunderpunch

    • Only Fire-type to get Dragon Dance, beats Bronzor and Teshiido more easily than Dragon-type DDers
    • mostly same as 4th Gen DDmander
    3. Nitro Dance Charmander @ Berry Juice / Life Orb / Salac Berry
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 44 HP / 180 Atk / 12 Def / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
    Ability: Blaze
    - Swords Dance
    - Nitro Charge
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute / Fire Punch / Flare Blitz

    • Only LC Poke other than Torchick to get SD + Nitro Charge
    • unique because Charmander has better offensive coverage than Torchic, the other LC Poke to get said combo (Torchic gets Speed Boost anyway, LOL)
    • Substitute helps for setup when used in the last slot, but Fire Punch or Flare Blitz is an option too if you don't want to rely on Nitro Charge's poor BP (Fire Punch needs to be transferred from Gen IV, but is compatible with Nitro Charge TM)
    • still ridiculously priority-weak
    Sooo, with Charmander's new toys, might it have the chance to shine? Being the only Solar Power user in Little Cup and the best Nitro Dancer (LOL Torchic has Speed Boost anyway) give it some things that make it unique, which lord knows it was lacking last generation...

    Discuss!
  2. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Mantyke doesn't resist Grass.

    Does Charmander kill Pururiru (the water/ghost) with Thunderpunch at +1? +1 with LO? +2?

    Solar Power Charmander actually looks pretty cool. I wouldn't bother with Sunny Day, Charmander needs Vulpix.
  3. PlatinumDude

    PlatinumDude

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    Charmander can't learn Dragon Pulse, so it can't really handle other Dragons that well other than AncientPower.
  4. Ramblin Wreck

    Ramblin Wreck

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    Banryu: Base Special Attack is 60, not the actual stat. Its actual stat with a Timid nature is 15. So.... 22, not 90.
  5. Banryu

    Banryu

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    No, but it has a ridiculous special defense stat. :0 And thus it's better to hit it supereffectively and, if possible, physically. I ran a Scarf Charmander set in 4th Gen that had basically the same moves, but also with Overheat... it couldn't kill Mantyke with HP Grass, but landed a solid 2HKO (with the switchin) with Rock Slide.

    I haven't tested anything yet... so no calcs. :0 If I can find a damage calculator that has 5th Gen Pokemon in it, though, I'll be sure to get some calcs up here.

    I agree though, I think Solar Power Charmander looks pretty darn epick. And I think you're right about the Vulpix thing. :0 Suppose maybe I should slash Dragon Pulse and Ancientpower in that last slot in place of SD.

    It can't, huh. :0 I guess someone hasn't checked Charmander's new egg moves...
  6. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Bump!

    Give Charmander some love.
  7. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
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    Not true. I think Zuruggu beats them better, as it can keep setting up DDs on Bronzor, and can keep itself healed with Drain Punch.
  8. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Meh, still seems outclassed by some combination of magby/houndour/dratini like last gen. Add in some new dragon dancers too . . .
  9. Arch

    Arch

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    He's still a fairly situational Dragon Dancer. It's been said time and time again that he has some niches against some top defensive threats, but not much else.

    He did get some toys like Nitro Charge and Solar Power, but his lack of reliable priority hurts.

    I'm not sure a sub on Charmander is a good idea, as Solar Power is going to really hinder survivability. I thought a mixed set might be viable in the sun, as Solar Power generally covers your Sp.Atk stat so you can invest in Atk and Speed. I'm on the wall about the decision between Dragon Dance / Nitro Charge for that set though. I'll post a set later. maybe.
  10. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Lack of priority sucks, agreed. Dx Charmander will pretty much always die to it. ;__;

    I think you're right about Sub, though. 1/8th HP from Solar Power each turn means Charmander has only 8 turns to sweep (LOL good luck surviving that long anyway), and Sub cuts it down to six if you're running that. :0 I hadn't considered that when I put it. Someone mentioned using Sunny Day on Solarzard in the Charizard thread as a means to stop auto-weather Pokes switching in, what do we think about that? Will Hippopotas and Snover (LOL) be enough to warrant it? ...probably not.

    But yeah, the more you mention it, the more I think a mixed Solar Power set could be really good. :O Maybe something along the lines of this?

    - Fire Blast
    - HP Grass
    - Rock Slide (Dragon Pulse)
    - Dragon Dance (Nitro Charge / Overheat)

    I give the option of being mixed or special, although I think Mixed is probably best. My biggest concern with it is that Charmander's base stats are pretty weak, meaning it's gonna have a tough time being mixed, but Solar Power and DD's boosts make up for that a little, at least. Last gen, I ran a Scarf Charmander with Flamethrower/HP Grass/Rock Slide/Overheat, and it worked really well; Rock Slide KO'd any Flash Fire switchins, and netted a clean 2HKO on Mantyke switchins that didn't have Oran. With a DD boost, even a minimally-invested Charmander should be able to 2HKO any Mantyke, and max Speed +1 Charmander will outspeed most Scarfers (faster ones like Gastly and Mankey still outspeed).

    I really like this set, good thinking, Arch. Changing the Solar Power set in the OP to this.

    EDIT: Sorry, didn't see these other posts... responses are as follows.
    True, perhaps. :0 Maybe this makes the SolarMix set better than the physical DD one, though.

    For the most part, yeah, but Magby/Houndour don't get boosting moves, and Dratini struggles with Bronzor/Teshiido, so there's that. As for the new DDers, Zuruggu has been mentioned, and I agree with that. But Kibago is plagued by the same curse as Dratini, and what's more, it's even more useless against Steels (Dig is its only move to hit them).
  11. pharaohcalvin

    pharaohcalvin

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    Just as a note, it does have priority in the form of quick attack, not a very good one but it does get it from the birthday charamnder events from Japan.
  12. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Isn't it level 40 when it gets it?
  13. pharaohcalvin

    pharaohcalvin

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    That is true, now that you mention it, never mind carry on.
  14. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Yeah, Quick Attack Charmander is ineligible for Little Cup. :0 Man, we only wish he got it... SD/DD + Fire Punch + DClaw + Quick Attack would kick so much more ass than anything else Charmander does... x___X

    But no, Charmander doesn't get it, and thus it gets raped by any priority attack not named Ice Shard. :\
  15. pharaohcalvin

    pharaohcalvin

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    Yep, I went and looked it up once it was mentioned that is should be lvl 40 and it was, sorry about the mistake.
  16. Plusle

    Plusle

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  17. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    ^Huh? Wasn't that unconfirmed in the OP? So how does it prove your point that all Charmanders are male?(They do have a 7:1 gender ratio, but it doesn't mean that you can't get a female Charmander.)
  18. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    Check the sticky at the top of the page.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83972
  19. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Ach. Sucks ass for Charmander, say goodbye to one much-need improvement to his reportoire.

    /delayed
  20. NeoSeth

    NeoSeth

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    He still has DD. I've found it to be pretty good with all the Steel-types running around (FIRE PUNCH YEAAAHH). Slowpoke is a pain though.
  21. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Steel-types eh?

    Zuruggu used "g'day mate"

    I guess you could use it on a sun team. Charmander has a more reliable super-powerful STAB move too.

    It's also more immune to burns.

    And Flare Blitz is cool for activating Blaze if priority doesn't fuck you over.

    I wanted Solar Power >_>
  22. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Thunderpunch can be used for Slowpoke, but Evo stone and Slowpoke's natural bulk (and Charmander's crappy Attack) still makes that pretty difficult, yeah....

    I wanted Solar Power too. Dx I liked that mixed set I came up with... ;__; (DD/Flamethrower/HP Grass/Rock Slide w/ Solar Power)
  23. Arch

    Arch

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    That mixed set could have been a really great opportunity for him to be a respected mixed attacker. Unfortunately, I think his usage is going to drop even lower this generation with the new best DD'er that does his niche better, Scraggy.
  24. masterful

    masterful

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    A Specs set could be interesting with the Solar Power boost, as the recoil damage is not that enormous and SR isn't as ubiquitous in LC as it is in maybe OU.
  25. Banryu

    Banryu

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    EDIT: Wait... what? No! Little Cup Charmander doesn't get Solar Power. Dx Therefore this is out of the question. Sorry. =___=

    Agreed. :\ What a shame. v__v

    Well the good news is that if LC ever is divided into tiers, Charmander has a better chance of not being outclassed in a lower tier... :D'

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