Chart Shift (Now Playable on the Aqua Server!)

[Isa Simple]

Chart Shift. (Approved by Eevee General).
Chart Shift is a meta game with no fancy direct changes to a pokemon’s type, ability, stats, or moves. In fact there are no direct changes to pokemon, but instead to the pokemon type chart. The new type chart is displayed below.

By just sliding the defensive typings one slot to the left the meta is turned on its head. With new defensive values leading to many new threats rising from as deep as NU. Some top tier OU threats lose their effectiveness and others become even stronger.

Given that all the type chart changes is defensive values, the main things to look out for are:
Pokemon that have good defenses but have been held back by their typing in the past.
Immunity/resistance granting abilities that synergies well with new defensive values.
Set up opportunities granted by more resistances/immunities.
Entry Hazards


Just a pinch of notable changes:

Mantine is now very potent with Water/Flying now granting it the resistances and immunities of a Fire/Ground type, with Water absorb patching up a 4x weakness. It now has only 1 weakness along side 2 immunities and 5 resistances. It also has great SpD, Scald to threaten physical attackers, Roost and Defog.

Azumaril becomes even stronger with the defensive values of a Fire/Steal type granting it five 4x immunities to potentially set up an easy Belly Drum and hit like even bigger truck than CB Azumaril already is.

Slowbro is now 4x weak to Stealth Rocks O_O


It may take some time getting used to and understanding the meta game, but if you keep the type chart handy its easy to understand. Basically only defensive values are effected much. Offense isn’t affected too much as even though you don’t hit certain types as you did before, you hit their new equivalent.
e.g. Earthquake used destroy fire types, it no longer does this, but it instead hits water types, which effectively are fire types.


Playability: Now playable on the Aqua Server! Thanks to Snaquaza and Ghoul King <3

 

[Mulan15262]

FYI, the chart is broken so people can't see what the type chart is here.

 

[Pikachuun]

FYI, the chart is broken so people can't see what the type chart is here.

Yeah. Use this one instead!

Hide

 

[Throbulator36]

All right. Meta where wigglytuff is better than klefki and mawile defensively.

 

[En Passant]

If you thought Mega Diancie was scary before, now it inherits Scizor's single Fire weakness.

 

[Adrian Marin]

Defensive type changes:

Chansey > Fairy
Zapdos > Ground/Flying
Avalugg > Grass
Hippowdon > Poison
Umbreon > Dragon
Reuniclus > Flying
Clefable > Steel
Dragonite > Ghost/Ground
Mew > Flying
Cryogonal > Grass
Celebi > Electric/Flying
Milotic > Fire
Vaporeon > Fire
Mega Steelix > Dark/Poison
Latias > Ghost/Flying

da mimez iz coming 2 tawn!

 

[NOCturnal Hunter]

Defensive type changes:

Chansey > Fairy
Zapdos > Ground/Flying
Avalugg > Grass
Hippowdon > Poison
Umbreon > Dragon
Reuniclus > Flying
Clefable > Steel
Dragonite > Ghost/Ground
Mew > Flying
Cryogonal > Grass
Celebi > Electric/Flying
Milotic > Fire
Vaporeon > Fire
Mega Steelix > Dark/Poison
Latias > Ghost/Flying

da mimez iz coming 2 tawn!

:D

Chart Shift. (Approved by Eevee General).
Chart Shift is a meta game with no fancy direct changes to a pokemon’s type, ability, stats, or moves. In fact there are no direct changes to pokemon, but instead to the pokemon type chart. The new type chart is displayed below.

By just sliding the defensive typings one slot to the left the meta is turned on its head. With new defensive values leading to many new threats rising from as deep as NU. Some top tier OU threats lose their effectiveness and others become even stronger.

Given that all the type chart changes is defensive values, the main things to look out for are:
Pokemon that have good defenses but have been held back by their typing in the past.
Immunity/resistance granting abilities that synergies well with new defensive values.
Set up opportunities granted by more resistances/immunities.
Entry Hazards


Just a pinch of notable changes:

Mantine is now very potent with Water/Flying now granting it the resistances and immunities of a Fire/Ground type, with Water absorb patching up a 4x weakness. It now has only 1 weakness along side 2 immunities and 5 resistances. It also has great SpD, Scald to threaten physical attackers, Roost and Defog.

Azumaril becomes even stronger with the defensive values of a Fire/Steal type granting it five 4x immunities to potentially set up an easy Belly Drum and hit like even bigger truck than CB Azumaril already is.

Slowbro is now 4x weak to Stealth Rocks O_O


It may take some time getting used to and understanding the meta game, but if you keep the type chart handy its easy to understand. Basically only defensive values are effected much. Offense isn’t affected too much as even though you don’t hit certain types as you did before, you hit their new equivalent.
e.g. Earthquake used destroy fire types, it no longer does this, but it instead hits water types, which effectively are fire types.


Playability: Well... friendly coders?

HOLY F#CK THAT IS SO COOL (btw with my keyboard issues, that was hard to type out "COOL")!!!!!!

 

[Mygavolt]

So, to sum it up, defensively:
Normal -> Fairy
Fairy -> Steel
Steel -> Dark
Dark -> Dragon
Dragon -> Ghost
Ghost -> Rock
Rock -> Bug
Bug -> Psychic
Psychic -> Flying
Flying -> Ground
Ground -> Poison
Poison -> Fighting
Fighting -> Ice
Ice -> Grass
Grass -> Electric
Electric -> Water
Water -> Fire
Fire -> Normal


Therefore:

• Zard-X is immune to Ghost and Fighting
• Fairies will replace Steels as the best defensive type (Mime and Gardevoir = Skarm, no more Ferrothorn typing)
• Defoggers are more effective with the Flying type being resistant to Rock (Togekiss anyone?)
• Dragons are the new spinblockers (and Noivern has a fast Taunt for Defoggers)
• Altaria-Mega -> Ghost/Steel
• Rock beats Rock, Bug beats Bug, Ground beats Ground, Fighting beats Fighting, Ice beats Ice, Electric beats Electric, and Water beats Water (a lot more self-weak types than before...)
• Electric-types have greater incentive to use Lightning Rod and Volt Absorb
  
• same for Water-types with Water Absorb and Storm Drain (like Mantine, as mentioned in the OP)
• and Flygon (equivalent to Poison/Ghost with Levitate...sup Gengar)
• but then Mega Gyarados (-> Fire/Dragon) comes in and Waterfalls/Earthquakes like a madman.
• Thick Fat Mamo is basically the new Mega Venusaur

Changes to Rotom forms:

• Rotom-Wash -> Water/Fire
• Rotom-Heat -> Water/Normal
• Rotom-Mow -> Water/Electric (coincidence?)
• Rotom-Frost -> Water/Grass
• Rotom-Fan -> Water/Ground
• normal Rotom -> Water/Rock (bleh)

Something to think about: Roost removes the Flying type, which is defensively equivalent to Ground. Therefore, it removes: weakness to Water, Grass, and Ice; resistance to Poison and Rock; and immunity to Electric.

 

[Ghoul King]

I honestly don't understand this meta at all.

 

[Kit Kasai]

I honestly don't understand this meta at all.

Just look at the type chart Pikachuun posted it explains everything basically

 

[Swede]

RIP All Fighting types left to suffer with Ice weaknesses.

Also congrats to the now Poison-Dark Excadrill that can fully abuse that Air Balloon to wreck teams.

 

[Shinuzzo]

Carnivine wishes it didn't have medicore defensive stats or was faster about now.

 

[Ghoul King]

Just look at the type chart Pikachuun posted it explains everything basically

If it explained anything I wouldn't have said anything. It doesn't explain anything. This is a meta doing... what exactly? The explanation is confusing, and other people's posts don't clarify anything either.

 

[Throbulator36]

If it explained anything I wouldn't have said anything. It doesn't explain anything. This is a meta doing... what exactly? The explanation is confusing, and other people's posts don't clarify anything either.

Each type gains the defensive weaknesses and strengths of another type and loses its own. For example normal is immune to dragon resists fighting and is weak to steel.

 

[Swede]

Each type gains the defensive weaknesses and strengths of another type and loses its own. For example normal is immune to dragon resists fighting and is weak to steel.

Or, in an easier way to remember, Ghoul King, use the chart Pikachuun posted and move each typing one slot to the left. Mygavolt also summed it up nicely.

 

[Isa Simple]

Specially defensive Tyranitar is very strong now, being able to wall many top tier special attackers such as Keldeo, Greninja, Mega Charizard-Y, Gengar and many more with its Dragon/Bug defensive values, while still gaining SpD from Sand Storm.

A lot of normal types become really strong defensively with Fairy's defensive values:
• Intimidate Stoutland can take a lot of hits now and deals with a lot of Dragons, being immune to their STAB and having Play Rough to hit them back.
• Lickilicky is quite strong with a strong support move pool and Thick Fat's bonus resistances, given a lot of Dragons have Fire coverage Lickilicky is a great check to them, can be invested to wall physical Dragons like Mega Garchomp and Mega Charizard-X or special dragons like Latios really effectively.
• Snorlax also has Thick Fat's bonus resistances and can boast its outstanding special defensive. Given that Snorlax's SpD is so high it can invest fully in Def in order to take hits from either side very effectively, while still being able to hit back with a respectable 110 Atk.
• Miltank is another great defensive normal type that greatly appreciates Fairy's defensive values. Miltank has access to both Thick Fat and Sap Sipper depending on what you are going for or can even pull off a Curse/Scrappy set. Miltank has great Def and a splendid support move pool with moves such as Heal Bell, Stealth Rocks, Thunder Wave/Body Slam, and most notably Milk Drink for reliable recovery.

So a lot of top tier Dragons now have far stronger checks and can be walled by a variety of normal types. However they can wall them, these normal types are still normal types so can't necessarily hit the Dragons back as their STABs aren't super effective. That said though, Stoutland has 110 ATk with acces to Play Rough and Ice fang, Lickilicky can hits the Latis with Knock Off, and Miltank and Snorlax have Earthquake or Rock slide to dent Zard-X and stuff.

 

[FlameUser64]

Specially defensive Tyranitar is very strong now, being able to wall many top tier special attackers such as Keldeo, Greninja, Mega Charizard-Y, Gengar and many more with its Dragon/Bug defensive values, while still gaining SpD from Sand Storm.

A lot of normal types become really strong defensively with Fairy's defensive values:
• Intimidate Stoutland can take a lot of hits now and deals with a lot of Dragons, being immune to their STAB and having Play Rough to hit them back.
• Lickilicky is quite strong with a strong support move pool and Thick Fat's bonus resistances, given a lot of Dragons have Fire coverage Lickilicky is a great check to them, can be invested to wall physical Dragons like Mega Garchomp and Mega Charizard-X or special dragons like Latios really effectively.
• Snorlax also has Thick Fat's bonus resistances and can boast its outstanding special defensive. Given that Snorlax's SpD is so high it can invest fully in Def in order to take hits from either side very effectively, while still being able to hit back with a respectable 110 Atk.
• Miltank is another great defensive normal type that greatly appreciates Fairy's defensive values. Miltank has access to both Thick Fat and Sap Sipper depending on what you are going for or can even pull off a Curse/Scrappy set. Miltank has great Def and a splendid support move pool with moves such as Heal Bell, Stealth Rocks, Thunder Wave/Body Slam, and most notably Milk Drink for reliable recovery.

So a lot of top tier Dragons now have far stronger checks and can be walled by a variety of normal types. However they can wall them, these normal types are still normal types so can't necessarily hit the Dragons back as their STABs aren't super effective. That said though, Stoutland has 110 ATk with acces to Play Rough and Ice fang, Lickilicky can hits the Latis with Knock Off, and Miltank and Snorlax have Earthquake or Rock slide to dent Zard-X and stuff.

Remember Play Rough is no longer SE on Dragon! Use Crunch if Stoutland learns it. Knock Off at least still hits Latis because Dragon is weak to it, though Psychic no longer is. By the way, Dragon is immune to Normal as well now, since Dragon is now Ghost defensively while Normal is now Fairy defensively.

 

[Throbulator36]

Specially defensive Tyranitar is very strong now, being able to wall many top tier special attackers such as Keldeo, Greninja, Mega Charizard-Y, Gengar and many more with its Dragon/Bug defensive values, while still gaining SpD from Sand Storm.

A lot of normal types become really strong defensively with Fairy's defensive values:
• Intimidate Stoutland can take a lot of hits now and deals with a lot of Dragons, being immune to their STAB and having Play Rough to hit them back.
• Lickilicky is quite strong with a strong support move pool and Thick Fat's bonus resistances, given a lot of Dragons have Fire coverage Lickilicky is a great check to them, can be invested to wall physical Dragons like Mega Garchomp and Mega Charizard-X or special dragons like Latios really effectively.
• Snorlax also has Thick Fat's bonus resistances and can boast its outstanding special defensive. Given that Snorlax's SpD is so high it can invest fully in Def in order to take hits from either side very effectively, while still being able to hit back with a respectable 110 Atk.
• Miltank is another great defensive normal type that greatly appreciates Fairy's defensive values. Miltank has access to both Thick Fat and Sap Sipper depending on what you are going for or can even pull off a Curse/Scrappy set. Miltank has great Def and a splendid support move pool with moves such as Heal Bell, Stealth Rocks, Thunder Wave/Body Slam, and most notably Milk Drink for reliable recovery.

So a lot of top tier Dragons now have far stronger checks and can be walled by a variety of normal types. However they can wall them, these normal types are still normal types so can't necessarily hit the Dragons back as their STABs aren't super effective. That said though, Stoutland has 110 ATk with acces to Play Rough and Ice fang, Lickilicky can hits the Latis with Knock Off, and Miltank and Snorlax have Earthquake or Rock slide to dent Zard-X and stuff.

Post about defensive normals that doesn't mention blobs or wigglybuffed

 

[Isa Simple]

Post about defensive normals that doesn't mention blobs or wigglybuffed

Wigglytuff has already been briefly mentioned and the blobs were already good before, I was mentioning the notable normals that weren't that good before and deserve some notice.

 

[Isa Simple]

Remember Play Rough is no longer SE on Dragon! Use Crunch if Stoutland learns it. Knock Off at least still hits Latis because Dragon is weak to it, though Psychic no longer is. By the way, Dragon is immune to Normal as well now, since Dragon is now Ghost defensively while Normal is now Fairy defensively.

Oops, just woke up and confused myself xD Its gonna be a rough day.
In that case crunch is good for Stoutland, Lickilicky is even better with Knock Off hitting far more Dragons, and Scrappy may be more useful on Miltank.

 

[Mygavolt]

Here are a few things I've been thinking about, a little food for thought (with questions underlined):

Scrappy, Foresight, and Odor Sleuth: Given their flavor texts, hidden in this hide tag:

Flavor text

wouldn't these only work on Ghost-types who are also dual-Dragon? (i.e. Giratina or any dragon affected by Trick-or-Treat) If so, they'd be much more useless than they've ever been (and Mega Lopunny would be severely nerfed).

Miracle Eye: (flavor text here) Same deal as Foresight and Odor Sleuth—wouldn't this only work on Psychic-types who are also dual-Bug? Wait, that doesn't exist (outside of CAP). Still, the question remains.

Spikes and Toxic Spikes:

• Should Flying-types or Psychic-types be immune to Spikes?
• Should grounded Poison-types or grounded Ground-types be able to dispel Toxic Spikes?
• Should Steel-types or Fairy-types be immune to Toxic Spikes, grounded or not? Maybe both?

Freeze-Dry: It is super-effective on Water-types, which are defensively like Fire-types. This means it does 4x damage to Crawdaunt, Slowbro, Gyarados, and Walrein, along with those naturally 4x weak to Ice.

Forest's Curse and Trick-or-Treat:

• Forest's Curse gives its target weakness to Ground and resistance to Electric, Flying, and Steel. This could work well on Trevenant because it gets Earthquake. It's useless on Psychic-types, though, as they are immune to Ground (and Trevenant does not get Smack Down or Gravity).
• Trick-or-Treat gives its target weakness to Water, Grass, Ground, Fighting, and Steel, and resistance to Normal, Fire, Poison, and Flying. This pleases Gourgeist because it has Grass STAB.

Powder moves: Should Grass-types or Ice-types be immune to powder moves?

Trapping: Should Ghost-types or Dragon-types be immune to trapping?

Status conditions:

• Related to the point about Toxic Spikes, should Steel-types or Fairy-types be immune to poison?
• Should Electric-types or Grass-types be immune to paralysis? (For the record, Flying-types are immune to Thunder Wave because they are immune to Electric.)
• Should Fire-types or Water-types be immune to burn?
• Should Ice-types or Fighting-types be immune to freezing?

post #404

 

[FlameUser64]

Here are a few things I've been thinking about, a little food for thought (with questions underlined):

Scrappy, Foresight, and Odor Sleuth: Given their flavor texts, hidden in this hide tag:

Flavor text

wouldn't these only work on Ghost-types who are also dual-Dragon? (i.e. Giratina or any dragon affected by Trick-or-Treat) If so, they'd be much more useless than they've ever been (and Mega Lopunny would be severely nerfed).

Miracle Eye: (flavor text here) Same deal as Foresight and Odor Sleuth—wouldn't this only work on Psychic-types who are also dual-Bug? Wait, that doesn't exist (outside of CAP). Still, the question remains.

Spikes and Toxic Spikes:

• Should Flying-types or Psychic-types be immune to Spikes?
• Should grounded Poison-types or grounded Ground-types be able to dispel Toxic Spikes?
• Should Steel-types or Fairy-types be immune to Toxic Spikes, grounded or not? Maybe both?

Freeze-Dry: It is super-effective on Water-types, which are defensively like Fire-types. This means it does 4x damage to Crawdaunt, Slowbro, Gyarados, and Walrein, along with those naturally 4x weak to Ice.

Forest's Curse and Trick-or-Treat:

• Forest's Curse gives its target weakness to Ground and resistance to Electric, Flying, and Steel. This could work well on Trevenant because it gets Earthquake. It's useless on Psychic-types, though, as they are immune to Ground (and Trevenant does not get Smack Down or Gravity).
• Trick-or-Treat gives its target weakness to Water, Grass, Ground, Fighting, and Steel, and resistance to Normal, Fire, Poison, and Flying. This pleases Gourgeist because it has Grass STAB.

Powder moves: Should Grass-types or Ice-types be immune to powder moves?

Trapping: Should Ghost-types or Dragon-types be immune to trapping?

Status conditions:

• Related to the point about Toxic Spikes, should Steel-types or Fairy-types be immune to poison?
• Should Electric-types or Grass-types be immune to paralysis? (For the record, Flying-types are immune to Thunder Wave because they are immune to Electric.)
• Should Fire-types or Water-types be immune to burn?
• Should Ice-types or Fighting-types be immune to freezing?

post #404

Steel is immune to Poison inherently. Fairy can still be poisoned by Twineedle but is otherwise immune (including Toxic Spikes) due to being immune to Poison-type moves.
— Ghost-types are immune to trapping inherently so that stays a Ghost-type trait (and also makes them OP as heck because they're no longer weak to Pursuit-trapping).
— Grass-types are immune to Powder moves inherently so that stays a Grass-type trait.
— Electric is immune to Paralysis inherently so that stays, same with Poison's immunity to Poison status, Ice's immunity to Freeze, and Fire's immunity to Burn. Grounded Poison-types still dispel Toxic Spikes due to inherent Poison status immunity.
— For Spikes, I might argue that actually Psychic should be immune as it's technically a Ground-type move, although that raises the question of what happens with Toxic Spikes. (Would Psychic be immune due to being immune to Spikes, or should Flying be immune as Toxic Spikes is not a Ground-type move?)

That's my opinion on the subject, anyway.

 

[Isa Simple]

Thank you FlameUser64 for answering all these questions for me and correctly. You seem to understand the meta game better than I did this morning (God its been a rough day). As for the Flying types and Spikes/ToxicSpikes situation, these quotes from Bulbapedia pretty much sum it up.

"Flying-Type pokemon are not considered grounded for effects that affect grounded Pokemon. (These affects first appeared in Generation II, with entry hazards)"
This means that flying types are immune to spikes because they are not considered grounded, not because they are immune to ground type. Hence Flying types are still immune to spikes and t-spikes even though they are no longer immune to ground.

Spikes
"Flying and Levitating Pokemon are affected under Gravity, holding an Iron Ball, or if Baton Passed an Ingrain."
This means even pokemon immune to ground are still affected by spikes if they are grounded. Hence, grounded Psychic types that lack a secondary typing giving them immunity to t-spikes, still take damage from spikes and are affected by t-spikes.

Toxic Spikes
"Toxic Spikes has no effect against Flying-Type, Poison-Type, or Steel-Type Pokémon or Pokémon with the Ability Immunity, Levitate, Leaf Guard (during intense sunlight) or Magic Guard."
Given that Steel types can potentially be poisoned by Twineedle, the fact that steel's can't be poisoned by t-spikes indicates that they are imune to t-spikes due to the typing's immunity rather than an inherited trade of steels. So Fairy's will be immune to t-spikes, but just like steels don't clear them, neither will fairies. Removing t-spikes is still down to the grounded poisons.

Also on a related sort of mechanics thing. Rock types still gain SpD in Sand Storm while Ghosts do not.

 

[FlameUser64]

Thank you FlameUser64 for answering all these questions for me and correctly. You seem to understand the meta game better than I did this morning (God its been a rough day). As for the Flying types and Spikes/ToxicSpikes situation, these quotes from Bulbapedia pretty much sum it up.

"Flying-Type pokemon are not considered grounded for effects that affect grounded Pokemon. (These affects first appeared in Generation II, with entry hazards)"
This means that flying types are immune to spikes because they are not considered grounded, not because they are immune to ground type. Hence Flying types are still immune to spikes and t-spikes even though they are no longer immune to ground.

Spikes
"Flying and Levitating Pokemon are affected under Gravity, holding an Iron Ball, or if Baton Passed an Ingrain."
This means even pokemon immune to ground are still affected by spikes if they are grounded. Hence, grounded Psychic types that lack a secondary typing giving them immunity to t-spikes, still take damage from spikes and are affected by t-spikes.

Toxic Spikes
"Toxic Spikes has no effect against Flying-Type, Poison-Type, or Steel-Type Pokémon or Pokémon with the Ability Immunity, Levitate, Leaf Guard (during intense sunlight) or Magic Guard."
Given that Steel types can potentially be poisoned by Twineedle, the fact that steel's can't be poisoned by t-spikes indicates that they are imune to t-spikes due to the typing's immunity rather than an inherited trade of steels. So Fairy's will be immune to t-spikes, but just like steels don't clear them, neither will fairies. Removing t-spikes is still down to the grounded poisons.

Also on a related sort of mechanics thing. Rock types still gain SpD in Sand Storm while Ghosts do not.

Steel cannot be poisoned by Twineedle as of Generation III, so it also has inherent Poison immunity. Fairy lacks inherent Poison status immunity but is immune to Poison-type moves, granting them immunity to poisoning from all sources except Twineedle. (I'm just gonna presume Toxic Spikes works the same way as Thunder Wave in that regard.)

 

[Mygavolt]

Also on a related sort of mechanics thing. Rock types still gain SpD in Sand Storm while Ghosts do not.

So, in that sense, the types immune to Sandstorm should still be Rock, Ground, and Steel. Also, Ice should be immune to Hail.

This all makes sense, but I don't seem to have a response about Scrappy, Foresight, Odor Sleuth, and Miracle Eye.

Scrappy, Foresight, and Odor Sleuth: Given their flavor texts, hidden in this hide tag:

Flavor text

wouldn't these only [be useful against] Ghost-types who are also dual-Dragon? (i.e. Giratina or any dragon affected by Trick-or-Treat) If so, they'd be much more useless than they've ever been (and Mega Lopunny would be severely nerfed).

Miracle Eye: (flavor text here) Same deal as Foresight and Odor Sleuth—wouldn't this only [be useful against] Psychic-types who are also dual-Bug? Wait, that doesn't exist (outside of CAP). Still, the question remains.