Checkmate! [A Gen. 5 RMT]

[KidX]

Hello all and welcome to my first 5th Gen. RMT. It's been awhile since I last posted my team here. Hopefully I can get some good review on my team. Anyways this being my first 5th Gen. team is probably going to be pretty bad. I am at my wit's end with this team. At first everything was alright, but as pokemon needed to be changed, the team was a little unstable. So I have decided to go to the RMT forum and ask for help. I've been reading up on some RMT's before making the team and I've learned what to expect in Gen. 5. So without further ado, on to the team!

At a Glance:

Team Building Process:

First I started out with something that can counter the likes of Doryuzu. So Roobushin was a definite addition to the team especially after I saw its destructive force when it came smashing things. Roobushin is also the one of the two remaining members of the original team.

Next I needed a stallbreaker and a revenge killer for those stupid Shandera's with Psychic. I decided to look at some of my old Gen. 4 teams for help on this one, after some digging here and there Starmie was the best pick overall because of its great speed and diverse movepool. Starmie is the other remaining member of my original team.

I decided that I needed an Electric sponge, but I didn't want Hippowdon or Swampert because a.) Hippo makes SS which is not the best b.) Pert is more defensive and I wanted to get more offensive going. So I was on Serebii looking for a ground type then I saw Randorosu. It was pretty damn strong on both sides of the spectrum and it had a TROLLY base 101 Speed. I checked its movepool and I soon found myself loving it. It proved to be a great scout and it provides great coverage because it learned the QuakeEdge. Plus it could sorta check Doryuzu in a pinch.

I will admit that I was paranoid of ghosts and dragons although I had starmie. I didn't want to put all the burden of revenge killing on starmie plus I lacked a poke that breathed fire, so I searched a bit on Serebii (again) and Sazando did the job perfectly getting STAB Drak Pulse and STAB Draco Meteor was great, plus it learned Fire blast. The only downside is that it cannot have dark pulse + earth power because it's illegal, so surf is just as awesome.

With all this offense going on on my team, I decided that a sturdy wall was needed. Who better than good old Vappy? It can take some hits and Wish pass, does it get any better than this?

Now I needed a lead at first it was Deo-S, but it didn't really give me the results I was looking for. Next I tried heatran, it was OK at first, but after awhile it just barely manages SR up before its KOed into next week. I came to the decision to use Skarmory since it can easily setup entry hazards and phaze + its so friggin bulky!

Alright so the team was not doing too well, so changes were needed, I decided to use T-Tar as my weather killer and as a SR user which clears a spot up for Skarm. Also Sazandora was not the best scarfer ever, so instead I tried out the King of OU, no not Doryuzu, but SALAMENCE.

In Depth:
Changes in Bold

Pawn (Skarmory) (M) @ Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost

Why Skarmory? To start Skarmory is a great lead, able to take hits very well. This thing is EVed so that it can take hits from both sides of the spectrum. Even with all this investment is Sp. Def Skarm still has a sky high 317 Def. which is complemented by a solid 262 Sp. Def and 334 Hp. Whirlwind lets it do tremendous phazing and I can always roost and recover hp. Since you are able to see the other team's pokes before a battle on PO I can easily keep Skarmory for use as my mid-game wall + phazer. Skarm sets up the ever so important SR and on most occasions Spikes, which greatly help my team sweep. Skarm makes a bunch of the OKHO's on certain pokes possible, if it wasn't for skarm, my team would be overrun by flying types. Skarmory gets the name Pawn because it supports the other pieces and without it the other pieces cannot thrive.

Bishop (Tyranitar) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SAtk
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Dark Pulse
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam

Why Tyranitar? Ok so Randorosu was not working out so well so T-Tar replaced it. I actually like this ev spread for t-tar because it lets take hits fairly well from both sides of the spectrum. The surprise factor I like about this set is that it can easily eliminate physical walls like Toxic Orb Gliscor. SR provides a reliable entry hazard and keeps fliers like Borutorosu
in check. Dark pulse hits Shandera and other ghosts or psychic types hard especially since most of them are physically bulky. EQ is a great coverage move and makes T-Tar a great check to heatran and if necessary Doryuzu. Ice beam is my ace in the hole allowing T-Tar to take care of fliers. T-Tar completely ruins weather team's strategy unless they are a SS team. I completely laugh at people who underestimate Tyranitar and try to break through its mighty defenses with a weak attack or with a pretty powerful attack like an EQ from Gliscor which I tank and then blast them with the appropriate attack. Also unlike most tyranitar's I can cope with a burn because I am specially based. The reason why Tyranitar is called the bishop is because I have no better names to give him.

Rook (Roobushin) (M) @ Flame Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 120 HP / 204 Atk / 176 SDef / 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Rock Slide

Why Roobushin? Meet the thing that will make you sh*t yourself. Roobushin is by far one of the most useful members of the team. With flame orb activated and one bulk up this thing reaches a staggering 913 Atk. The EVs are standard except for the 8 Spe EVs I put in so my Roobushin doesn't have to rely on a speed tie with no spe evs or 4 spe evs Robbushins. Bulk up lets this thing become the powerhouse that it's designed to be. Mach Punch makes this thing different from its fellow Fighting types because both Machamp and Hariyama both lack a STAB priority. I just love mach punch because it can easily finish off weakened foes and fast, frail sweepers like Darkrai, not to mention it comes off of a base 140 Atk. Drain punch keeps this thing going for a long time and along with wish support from Vappy, this thing is sticking around for a long time. Rock Slide lets Roobushin take care of Fliers like Zapdos and it can hit ghosts hard as well. Roobushin is my main Doryuzu check this guy can make any Doryuzu shit themselves, I mean look at it, its so scary. Roobushin is called the Rook because of its castle-like defenses and immense power.

Knight (Salamence) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Why Salamence? And here is out next memeber..... He's the king of OU, the one who shakes the earth and he completely smashes any wall its the one and only Salamence! Good old MixMence it gets the job done right and with flare. When it comes to wall breaking nothing is better at it then Mence. I can't express how much I love using Mence, I was sad it was banished to Ubers in Gen 4. but it seems God thought otherwise, giving it a chance at redemption in Gen 5. Draco Meteor is insanely powerful and with STAB and LO behind it leaves holes in the opponents team. Earthquake and Fire blast provide perfect coverage with D-Meteor letting me hit everything for at least neutral damage. Fire blast is really useful for making the oh so common Nattorei shit itself. Outrage is mainly for whacking switches who think I will switch because I'm at -2 and I don't have another Dragon STAB. Ha think again! Outrage has 120 base attack and with STAB and LO almost hits as hard as D-Meteor. Entry hazards, LO and SS can really wear it down, but Vappy can heal it back to nearly full health thanks to wish being slightly altered. Salamence is my knight because it is strong as hell and can easily force switches left and right.

Queen (Starmie) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Trick

Why Starmie? Starmie is by far the MVP of the team. Starmie eats stall up with trick and bolt beam. It acts as a great check to everything. It has blistering 115 base speed and good 100 base sp. atk. Max spe. and sp.atk is necessary to hit as hard and as fast as possible. Hydro pump is insanely power with 120 base attack plus STAB it puts a dent into anything that isn't specially bulky or a water type. The infamous boltbeam combo makes starmie the perfect revenge killer for DD Gyara, DD Mence and Scarf Chomp. Also boltbeam hits everything bar Shedninja (i think) for neutral damage. Starmie is a great way to check weakened scarf Lati@s. Trick is a great way to cripple any walls I don't like plus it makes Evo stone porygon 2 useless. I cannot not count the multiple times Starmie has saved my but when I was down 3-5 or 3-6. Starmie along with Roobushin make great status absorbers. Some of you might want to suggest me to switch to Lati@s, but before you do give some good solid reasons, I don't want to hear things like: "Oh! Lati@s is stronger and more bulky use it!" I have already thought of that when choosing this position on the team. The reason why I didn't choose Lati@s is because neither of them get STAB on water attacks which help takeout T-Tar and Scizor, plus Lati@s will add another Dragon weakness to the team, besides Starmie is faster by 5 Speed, which helps revenge kill. The Queen is the most powerful chess piece because it can move as far as it wants and in any direction it wants, this applies to Starmie because it can check a wide variety of pokes and is the most powerful member of the team.

King (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Boil Over
- Wish
- Protect
- Roar

Why Vaporeon? Ahh! It seems we are at the end of the chessboard (well actually in the middle, but you get my point). The King of my team. Without Vappy here my team would not last too long in the cruel world known as competitive battling. EVs are max and max to get the most out of Vappy's defenses. Boil over is Vappy's only form of attack and it gets STAB and a 30% chance to burn which comes in handy when there are a bunch of physical attackers out there. Wish has been tweaked, so Vappy can pass the 3rd most hp replenishing wish in the game. Protect is obvious for scouting and protecting vappy from harm's way while I wish. Roar lets Vappy act as my second phazer if Skarm is taken down (AS IF jk). Vappy keeps everyone on the team nice and healthy. This may sound strange, but most battles Vappy is the last one of my pokes alive and most of the time its Vappy's great stalling abilities + entry hazards that help me win the battle. Vappy is the King of my team because it needs to stay alive for as long as possible, so my team can function properly.



SHOUTOUTS:

Faldaran: You've been rating teams left and right here in the RMT forum and helping players like me who are struggling with their teams. I would like to take the time to thank you for your hard work. Oh and keep on rating! :)

Haunter: Head of the RMT team, you don't seemed to be recognized as an important person to the forum, but I think that you are probably one of the most important mods because without you where would we get such great team raters?


Anyways thats the end of my RMT. Love it. Rate it. Hate it. Just don't steal it.

 

[Lightning55]

Does Sazandora really need a hasty nature? It already has choice scarf, boosting it to unbelievable speeds, only outsped by scarfchomp and the like. The extra boost to special attack might be much more useful. I really like the 2 phasers, as BP teams with smeargle are too common nowadays.

 

[KidX]

Does Sazandora really need a hasty nature? It already has choice scarf, boosting it to unbelievable speeds, only outsped by scarfchomp and the like. The extra boost to special attack might be much more useful. I really like the 2 phasers, as BP teams with smeargle are too common nowadays.

Thanks for the feedback.

Alright, I'll switch it to a Mild Nature then

 

[Chou Toshio]

First of all, thanks for your PM, because I do think I can give some useful input on this solid team. I'm liking what I see.

Onto the actual rating.

To start out, I hate to say it, but we're going to needs some gimmicks for this team to really excel. I know, it's stupid-- but what are you going to do? With all the super powerful pokemon running around, and the extreme Over-centralization of top OU, it's become so predictable that you practically need the gimmicks to excel.

The first of these gimmicks will be Hidden Power Fire over Trick on Starmie. Let me start by saying that probably the 1 biggest difference between IVth gen and Vth Gen's OU is the introduction of Nattorei. With Resistance to Water, Electric and Grass with neutrality to Ice, Water Types can no longer rely on their old offensive combos. In fact, Nattorei is so influential that Bulky waters as we new them have largely disappeared (even on the PO server with no Shaymin-S). Swampert has dug its hole, Suicune has vanished into the mist, and Vappy is just barely clinging on to its OU presence.

What's the deal? It's Nattorei. Nattorei has succeeded where every previous grass type failed-- not only can it switch into Ice attacks with impunity, but while previous grass types struggled to do anything useful to enemy switch-ins, Nattorei guarantees huge steps of advantage with entry hazards. The result is that while Bulky Waters were pretty much completely free to do their thing and run amoc in IVth gen, in Vth Gen, simply bringing in a bulky water type can be a huge liability.

. . . but, it is because of this predictability, and people's over-reliance on Nattorei, that HP Fire Water types can completely dust Nattorei with ease. No one sees it coming, and since you're not using Politoed, you might as well. I'd say definitely HP Fire on Starmie (and then, due to its lower speed IV, move EVs from Speed to HP until you just outspeed Lati@s/gengar) over trick. With Roob, you're not fearing blissey anyway.

Use HP Fire liberally when you see Natto in team preview (they WILL bring it in), and when possible, lure in and destroy Natto before you start to rely on Vappy. If you bring Vappy in earlier, you will suffer the consequences of a field full of spikes. I mean alternatively, you could find a slot for HP Fire on Vaporeon-- its 110 base Special Attack can be EV'd to OHKO Natto with ease while retaining its bulk.


The next Gimmick for this team is HP Ice on Lando. Trust me on this one-- it works. Gliscor is fucking everywhere, and is public enemy number 1. In fact, most of the best teams I have seen overly rely on Gliscor and Natto to make up their defensive cores. If you can use Lando and Starmie to destroy these two problems, the rest will come easy.


Finally Sazandora-- I would say you should seriously consider what this accomplishes that a scarf Lati@s would not. My preference would be Lati@s-- putting the superior speed (not trolled by Garchomp), with Fighting types literally EVERYWHERE including Roob and Nasty Luke (both of which can destroy Sazandora), you can never have enough fighting resists. Starmie and Lando help check fighters-- but neither of them is Gliscor, they don't have insane defensive stats. One more fighting resist on your other revenge killer will help the team a lot.


Those are my suggestions-- the team is solid with a solid plan, but it needs some anti-metagaming.

 

[Jaroda]

I'm flattered you want my help, I'll see what I can do.

I think Skarmory as a lead in DW without Shed Shell is asking for trouble. What with around 1/4 of teams having Shanderaa you're asking to get screwed over.

I also see a big LO Starmie weakness as one can OHKO half your team with certain moves. I suppose you can get the surprise KO with your scarf Starmie, but that's still risky, especially if it already bites it.

Consider Leftovers over Burn Orb on Roopushin as getting statused isn't terrible difficult with Boil Over and Toxic Spikes everywhere. You'll find the longevity it offers to be amazing. Especially since some opponents think that withOUT a Burn Orb you might be an Iron Fist variant. A foolish choice since Guts is so superior, but it can be the case nonetheless.

I also agree that Sazandora doesn't really accomplish anything that a L@tias couldn't do far better. Dark typing is a liability these days with Blaziken, Roopushin, Lucario, Blaziken, etc.

 

[KidX]

Alright guys thanks for the rates!

First of all, thanks for your PM, because I do think I can give some useful input on this solid team. I'm liking what I see.

Onto the actual rating.

To start out, I hate to say it, but we're going to needs some gimmicks for this team to really excel. I know, it's stupid-- but what are you going to do? With all the super powerful pokemon running around, and the extreme Over-centralization of top OU, it's become so predictable that you practically need the gimmicks to excel.

The first of these gimmicks will be Hidden Power Fire over Trick on Starmie. Let me start by saying that probably the 1 biggest difference between IVth gen and Vth Gen's OU is the introduction of Nattorei. With Resistance to Water, Electric and Grass with neutrality to Ice, Water Types can no longer rely on their old offensive combos. In fact, Nattorei is so influential that Bulky waters as we new them have largely disappeared (even on the PO server with no Shaymin-S). Swampert has dug its hole, Suicune has vanished into the mist, and Vappy is just barely clinging on to its OU presence.

What's the deal? It's Nattorei. Nattorei has succeeded where every previous grass type failed-- not only can it switch into Ice attacks with impunity, but while previous grass types struggled to do anything useful to enemy switch-ins, Nattorei guarantees huge steps of advantage with entry hazards. The result is that while Bulky Waters were pretty much completely free to do their thing and run amoc in IVth gen, in Vth Gen, simply bringing in a bulky water type can be a huge liability.

. . . but, it is because of this predictability, and people's over-reliance on Nattorei, that HP Fire Water types can completely dust Nattorei with ease. No one sees it coming, and since you're not using Politoed, you might as well. I'd say definitely HP Fire on Starmie (and then, due to its lower speed IV, move EVs from Speed to HP until you just outspeed Lati@s/gengar) over trick. With Roob, you're not fearing blissey anyway.

Use HP Fire liberally when you see Natto in team preview (they WILL bring it in), and when possible, lure in and destroy Natto before you start to rely on Vappy. If you bring Vappy in earlier, you will suffer the consequences of a field full of spikes. I mean alternatively, you could find a slot for HP Fire on Vaporeon-- its 110 base Special Attack can be EV'd to OHKO Natto with ease while retaining its bulk.


The next Gimmick for this team is HP Ice on Lando. Trust me on this one-- it works. Gliscor is fucking everywhere, and is public enemy number 1. In fact, most of the best teams I have seen overly rely on Gliscor and Natto to make up their defensive cores. If you can use Lando and Starmie to destroy these two problems, the rest will come easy.


Finally Sazandora-- I would say you should seriously consider what this accomplishes that a scarf Lati@s would not. My preference would be Lati@s-- putting the superior speed (not trolled by Garchomp), with Fighting types literally EVERYWHERE including Roob and Nasty Luke (both of which can destroy Sazandora), you can never have enough fighting resists. Starmie and Lando help check fighters-- but neither of them is Gliscor, they don't have insane defensive stats. One more fighting resist on your other revenge killer will help the team a lot.


Those are my suggestions-- the team is solid with a solid plan, but it needs some anti-metagaming.

The only thing I don't like about having scarf Lati@s is that I will lose fire blast, but I think I can cope since Starmie will get hp fire :P

Hp ice seems like a great idea I'll give that a try. Thanks for the suggestions Chou!

I'm flattered you want my help, I'll see what I can do.

I think Skarmory as a lead in DW without Shed Shell is asking for trouble. What with around 1/4 of teams having Shanderaa you're asking to get screwed over.

I also see a big LO Starmie weakness as one can OHKO half your team with certain moves. I suppose you can get the surprise KO with your scarf Starmie, but that's still risky, especially if it already bites it.

Consider Leftovers over Burn Orb on Roopushin as getting statused isn't terrible difficult with Boil Over and Toxic Spikes everywhere. You'll find the longevity it offers to be amazing. Especially since some opponents think that withOUT a Burn Orb you might be an Iron Fist variant. A foolish choice since Guts is so superior, but it can be the case nonetheless.

I also agree that Sazandora doesn't really accomplish anything that a L@tias couldn't do far better. Dark typing is a liability these days with Blaziken, Roopushin, Lucario, Blaziken, etc.

Shed Shell, hmm... alright I will try it, but I will miss Lefties recovery and since I don't have roost, that could be a problem.

Lefties on Roob? Thats new. I guess I'll give that a try.

Thanks for the rate guys!

 

[Jaroda]

lol, It's pretty common actually if you care about Roo's longevity more than the power, and it can make all the difference sometimes. The speed EVs are unnecessary btw. Speed doesn't make the difference in a Roopushin mirror match, it's whoever came into the battle first and already has a Bulk Up. I also prefer Stone Edge for the big power difference since Roopushin isn't going to flinch anything, but that one is a judgement call.

Well you can probably replace something other than Brave Bird for Roost since it his your primary wall after all. Might I suggest keeping Spikes and simply using something else with Stealth Rock? Plenty of mon can use it that would still benefit your team depending on who you replace like Gliscor, Heatran, Tyranitar, etc.

 

[KidX]

lol, It's pretty common actually if you care about Roo's longevity more than the power, and it can make all the difference sometimes. The speed EVs are unnecessary btw. Speed doesn't make the difference in a Roopushin mirror match, it's whoever came into the battle first and already has a Bulk Up. I also prefer Stone Edge for the big power difference since Roopushin isn't going to flinch anything, but that one is a judgement call.

Well you can probably replace something other than Brave Bird for Roost since it his your primary wall after all. Might I suggest keeping Spikes and simply using something else with Stealth Rock? Plenty of mon can use it that would still benefit your team depending on who you replace like Gliscor, Heatran, Tyranitar, etc.

Ok, I was actually thinking of using T-Tar over Rando, so I might as well give that a try.

Also I have tested your suggestion on Roob and IMHO I like the Flame Orb set better because it can hit so much harder than lefties one.

 

[Jaroda]

If that's the case then get rid of your HP EVs since you're only increasing your Burn damage. Put everything into your Attack and defenses.

 

[[Zangoose]]

Team looks solid, I'll see how I can help...
I completely agree with the above comments; some unpredictable Fire moves would definitely help out your team and save it from Nattorei.
Shandera completely screws your team over. It can trap and OHKO 4 of your members, and cripple the 5th (Roob). Your idea of Tyranitar over Randorosu is good; it'll add that extra Shandera-destroying depth, and when people see Tyranitar they generally hide away their Doryuuzu counters, which could definitely give your team trouble. I'd put Roost and Shed Shell on Skarmory and Stealth Rock on your TTar (should you choose to use it), that way you can take down enemy Shandy with ease.
That's about all I have to say, I'm not really one for big changes. Good luck with the team!

 

[KidX]

Team looks solid, I'll see how I can help...
I completely agree with the above comments; some unpredictable Fire moves would definitely help out your team and save it from Nattorei.
Shandera completely screws your team over. It can trap and OHKO 4 of your members, and cripple the 5th (Roob). Your idea of Tyranitar over Randorosu is good; it'll add that extra Shandera-destroying depth, and when people see Tyranitar they generally hide away their Doryuuzu counters, which could definitely give your team trouble. I'd put Roost and Shed Shell on Skarmory and Stealth Rock on your TTar (should you choose to use it), that way you can take down enemy Shandy with ease.
That's about all I have to say, I'm not really one for big changes. Good luck with the team!

Can you or anyone else suggest a ev spread and movepool for t-tar? I'm all out of ideas. 9.9

Oh and just to add Latios has been tested and I found that it wasn't the most reliable check in the game, I am actually testing out Scarf Chomp at the moment, suggestions on that?

 

[KidX]

Well time for my first BUMP

And a quick update:

I am currently liking my T-Tar set that I am using it is 252 Hp / 40 Atk / 216 Sp. Atk Brave Nature SR / Dark Pulse / EQ / Ice Beam

I also love Mixmence on my team, it makes the lack of trick on Starmie more bearable.

I'll update the thread later cuz I feel lazy.

 

[KidX]

BUMP # 2 CMON RATE PLEASE

 

[e5 y vx]

please update first?
I don't what's going on anymore with your pokemon replacements and what not....

Thanks. I'll edit this with my rate afterwards. ^^,


for Saza, what does the EQ hit?
have you tried U-turn? it might force more switches and it works well with DM, and his vast coverages for mind games making it harder to switch in a resisting poke.

 

[KidX]

please update first?
I don't what's going on anymore with your pokemon replacements and what not....

Thanks. I'll edit this with my rate afterwards. ^^,


for Saza, what does the EQ hit?
have you tried U-turn? it might force more switches and it works well with DM, and his vast coverages for mind games making it harder to switch in a resisting poke.

Done editing rate away.