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Checkmate [Peaked #11]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Conduit, Apr 20, 2013.

?

Should I make a Rain team around Lightning Rod Seaking?

  1. Yes

    106 vote(s)
    69.3%
  2. No

    47 vote(s)
    30.7%
  1. Conduit

    Conduit

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    44
    Checkmate
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This team has brought me quite a bit of success on both Beta and Pokemon Showdown. Peaking number eleven on the Beta server with 1537 points and getting first page on numerous alts after the ladder reset losing only twice(once to Princess Bri because of flinchhax ;) and one to a Perish Song team) while also going 26-0 on Pokemon Showdown. It's definitely one my more entertaining teams to play with building off of good synergy and bulky offense utilizing some Pokemon I've been dying to try in this metagame - Baton Pass Celebi and Xatu. Although I don't ladder too much, I've seen variants and carbon copies of this team a few times, some claiming it theirs, so I decided it was high time that I posted this team. I bring to you Checkmate.

    Process:
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    I wanted to make a team around a Banded variant of Tyranitar which I haven't used since Gen 4 so this is where I started.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Every Sand team needs a solid Rain check, the rival of all rivals, in order to be successful in the current Metagame. Specially Defensive Celebi did just that proving to be a wonderful defensive pivot.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Noticing my major Scizor weakness I began to think of something along the lines of Forretress as a good spinner and a great way to set up rocks. However, I realized that Landorus - T did pretty much the same job while also proving to be a defensive partner to Celebi.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Once again realizing how phenomenally weak the team was to Rain and Ice type attacks, Keldeo came into the picture as one of the best Stall breakers in the game. It also hits a wide variety of the meta incredibly hard.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now looking at the team, I began to wonder what it lacked. It was obviously a good spinner with my team easily crippled by Spikes/TSpikes. I began to go back to Foretress now showing to be great against Dragon types and as a support to Landorus T. However, I began to realize that Ferrothorn would still pose a huge threat - common fare on rain teams so I decided upon Xatu.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Last but not least, Jirachi came to be the steel type that I sought for. It checked Tornadus-T, not banned on Beta, and was my main answer to huge threats like Alakazam and Gengar.

    And So Checkmate Was Born.
    Changes in bold.
    ..........
    [​IMG]
    King @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 56 SDef / 96 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower


    The King of Sand, Tyranitar, has been with me on most of my teams since the third generation. It’s effectiveness has never dropped and it is one of my favorite Pokemon for being such a diverse team member and a badass in general. This banded is very effective in that it hits the entirety of the Overused tier very hard even against resistances. He serves as not only my weather starter but also as a bulky yet hard hitting threat. He is able to check many of the Special Attacking threats such as Latias, Latios, Starmie, Celebi, Jolteon, Espeon, and even Volcarona. His ability to effectively trap and kill serves a large purpose for paving the way for the rest of the team to come in and take out the opponent through consistent offense and pivotal moves. Pursuit does this job as the move I utilize the most. It does insane damage despite being Base 40, on non switchers, with the inclusion of Band. Crunch and Stone edge are basic coverage/STAB moves that are great for weakening incoming threats such as Scizor, if they dare to do so, and Dragonite. Finishing off with Superpower, Tyranitar gains extra coverage against opposing Dark types and also Steel types. Lucario and Heatran can’t safely switch in without fearing a quick KO. The only notable factor about the EV’s is the use of 8 speed as opposed to 4. It is really just to take out the usual Band Tyranitars and proves to be effective in outspeeding variants of Lonely Abomasnow both of which can wreak havoc if given the chance.
    As many people have suggested - Speedy tyranitar has helped a great deal in checking Jellicent, opposing Tyranitar most of which are running significant speed, and many other defensive threats. Test wise - it has been working wonders.

    ..........
    [​IMG]
    Queen @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Calm Mind
    - Baton Pass
    - Recover


    (Kidogo/Ginganinja, I hate you both for posting before me… </3)
    Tyranitar’s darling may look cute but she is one feisty gal. Celebi picks things up as my way to check the omnipresent rain teams. Usually, people run the common Tinkerbell Celebi which proves to be a great nuisance in tandem with offensive teams, however, it honestly can’t do much offensively at all, and with that set being so common and each to counter, I decided upon the almost non existent Calm Mind set. If you are running a Rain team without either Jirachi or Ferrothorn, get ready for hell. This thing is not only bulky at the bat but it’s even more so with Special Defense boosts along with being a heavy hitter. Here are some calcs:
    Show Hide

    +2 0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 97-114 (32.44 - 38.12%) -- 98.46% chance to 3HKO
    +2 0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 108 SpD Tentacruel: 127-150 (34.89 - 41.2%) -- 75.68% chance to 3HKO
    +2 0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 75-88 (24.83 - 29.13%) -- possible 4HKO
    -
    252 SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. +1 252 HP / 216+ SpD Celebi: 91-109 (22.52 - 26.98%) -- possible 5HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 216+ SpD Celebi: 169-201 (41.83 - 49.75%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +2 252 SpA Thundurus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. +1 252 HP / 216+ SpD Celebi: 164-194 (40.59 - 48.01%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    So please tell me how good that is. Not too shabby with no Satk investment at all. Thus, Giga Drain serves to be the primary move in which I can actually attack although I switch from time to time into Psychic to deal with Fighting types better. Now the crux of this set is Baton Pass. Yes, it isn’t all that uncommon with Scizor and Tyranitar using Pursuit all the time but that’s not the only purpose. For once, I use Baton Pass for two purposes: escaping a faint and passing Calm Mind boosts to the whole team. Yes, the whole team. I actually find it handy that basically every team member can actually benefit from the CM boosts. Landorus-T lives a Hydro Pump from Keldeo at +1. Xatu at +1 can take on a myriad of of Steel threats with Heatwave, even Jirachi. Tyranitar is my main pass when an opponent switches in Volcarona or Latis because at +1 in Sand – it’s not going down. However, the star lies within Keldeo. With 4 move coverage and +1/1 or more – Keldeo sweeps teams. The insanity behind it has brought me so many wins from the Get go. So, Celebi plays one of the largest roles on this team. The rest is self explanatory – Specially Defensive to check Landorus, Keldeo, Politoed etc.
    ..........
    [​IMG]
    Rook @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 236 HP / 180 Def / 92 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stealth Rock


    The brute, the mighty, the Rook. Whenever I need a wall to protect the King and Queen, Landorus-T is there. Whenever I need an offensive monster Landorus-T Is there. Honestly, the weight that Landorus-T hold cannot be exchanged with any other Pokemon, literally. My main check to any offensive threat lies in Landorus. The therian form was blessed with the ability Intimidate making it a better defensive threat than Gliscor. Not only this, but it gains access to Stealth Rock which every team surely needs. Moving on, Landorus-T has a versatile moveset through Earthquake and HP Ice doing wonders against the main problems to this team – Scizor, Jirachi, Dragonite, Salamence, Lando-T himself. Being able to take out boosts is a great way for the team to gain momentum and then either taking the opponent out then and there or even switching to an appropriate check – namely Jirachi. I believe that the only definitive factor of this Landorus would be the EV spread which I believe is the best for this particular set. Running at 264 Speed – I haven’t been outrun by a similar Lando-T yet and the way it can also outspeed so many common threats is a sight to behold. Tentacruel gets KO’d off the bat because they are ballsy enough to stay in for a Scald. Breloom? Hell, if it’s at lower than 70% its not hurting anything. Max Speed LO Scizor? Yeah, get 2hkod. Seriously, the only trouble that this has is with Aqua Tail Garchomp in Rain and Hydro Pump Salamence. Nothing can utilize this role as well as Landorus T.
    ..........
    [​IMG]
    Knight @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Secret Sword
    - Surf
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]


    When this team lacked a late game sweeper and a major offensive presence, Keldeo galloped down to fill the role. The Knight, cleverly named :3, stomps over the opposing kingdoms through raw power. There is not a single Pokemon that resists every move that Keldeo has… except for Shedinja. As a great offensive core with Tyranitar, Keldeo really benefits with its main counters dealth with which are namely Latias, Starmie, and Celebi. They put an end to Keldeo’s myriad of strong attacks so when they are out of the picture, this cutie causes pandemonium on the playing field. Now, I am not running a typical Keldeo set. I found that in order for this team to preform well, I needed Keldeo to be able to not be hindered by a choice item or 4 move syndrome. So, with Expert Belt, which also catches people off guard by faking a choice set, Keldeo can easily KO most of the Metagame with the amount of Super Effective hits that it gets. Secret Sword and Surf Together are the primary STAB moves and is overall better than running the risk of Hydro Miss. At first glance, this team is incredibly weak to Gyarados, specifically the Moxie variants. So Hidden Power Electric helps with this as it isn’t as common anymore. Many inexperienced players get caught up in trying to set up that they forget about it netting a quick KO on Mr. Shenlong. Icy Wind has been opted over HP Ice due to the fact that HP Elec gives more coverage and the fact that I like the nifty Speed Drop against Latis, sometimes at low enough health for a KO. However, the main reason this specific set was chosen was because it is the primary receiver from Celebi. Instead of running a run of the mill CM set on Keldeo with little coverage, this set up allows me to put just about everything in OHKO range. Most of my wins come from Mid/Late game sweeps from Keldeo after a single CM pass. It’s also nice to boast that I’ve won a game, with a Keldeo sweep, in nine turns which is a record for me. Also, Keldeo happens to serve a purpose of taking on Scarf Politoed as Celebi fears Ice beam along with dealing with Ferrothorn and Scizor, thankfully.
    ..........
    [​IMG]
    Bishop @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 220 HP / 236 Def / 36 SDef / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - U-turn
    - Heat Wave
    - Toxic
    - Roost


    The Bishop comes in as the support predicting opponent moves and making them backfire. Xatu is such an underrated Pokemon in the Overused tier. I rarely ever see it outside of Sun teams which isn’t all that fair considering its purpose is extremely valuable. The necessity of a way to get rid of hazards has always followed the team. Although not detrimental, hazards on the field definitely would cost the team many losses considering that Stall can definitely outplay the team otherwise, notably non spinning Sand Stall such as Ninety’s Aromasticity. Proving to be an effective counter to defensive threats such as Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Tentacruel, Xatu is a vital part of the team. Another benefit is that Xatu is great at stopping Jellicent and Sableye cold although Shadow Ball and Foul Play can pose to be irritating at times. B/W 2 brought Xatu Heatwave and for that I am extremely grateful to Gamefreak. Scizor, Forretress, Ferrothorn, Bronzong, or even Abomasnow (Mainy Leech Seed variants) have so much trouble finding a way to get through Xatu on the get go with its decent bulk. All are 1-2hkod and often times, a majority of OU players are unaware of the set that Xatu uses so they expect Thunder Wave, Toxic, Reflect, or even Psychic. However, they are surprised with a quick KO. Surprisingly enough, the game has often come down to only Xatu and Scizor and thankfully Scizor cannot take out a full health Xatu with Bullet Punch :3. U-Turn serves a purpose to get away from Tyranitar and proving to be a great move in scouting opposing Pokemon and trapping the Latis and Celebi occasionally. Toxic and Roost work wonders together as they out offensive threats who try to force their way through Xatu when they can’t get up hazards. The Evs are pretty much to make it phsyically bulky and the Speed Ev’s allow Xatu to outrun max speed Adamant Scizor which is still a problem with constant U-Turning.
    ..........
    [​IMG]
    Pawn @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Ice Punch


    Finally, the Pawn is the annoying little member that just seems to be everywhere threatening a plethora of pieces. Jirachi is hands down one of the best Scarfers for not only this team but the Meta in general. It is the glue of the team making sure that countless Pokemon aren’t trying to set up and proving to be another late game sweeper once its checks are out. The hax is probably the better side to Jirachi – 30% freezes, flinches, and burns are no laughing matter. So it may cause rages but that doesn’t really negatively impact the team. Joking aside, Jirachi usually serves as my primary lead against the majority of teams. It U-turns most of the time, usually in an effort to get weather up and trap an opposing weather starter with Tyranitar. However, as I don’t necessarily like Rocks up with Xatu on the team, I might feel overzealous and Iron Head Tyranitar. Ice Punch and Fire Punch are pretty solid in taking out x4 weaknesses after rocks/prior damage such as Dnite, Salamence, Landorus, Scizor. Iron Head is the move that is so handy in dire times. Flinch hax is just so helpful allowing me to finish off Pokemon without gaining damage getting me a win even when it’s the last one. Also, it is neat to take out U turning Tornadus T who believe they can just leave and recover not expecting a Scarf set. Once Tornadus T is out of the way, Rain teams become significantly less threatening.
    Zen Headbutt has been used over Fire Punch because it really alleviates the fact that fighting Pokemon can really set up on this team. It also does a significant amount to Pokemon that don't resist it.
    ..........

    Conclusion

    So, this is the end of my second RMT on Smogon and I hope you all enjoyed it. Please rate/critique/comment on the team – I won’t get angry :<… Promise. If you liked the team and or want to use it, why not leave a Luvdisk so I know how many People are testing it and thought the team was good because I really like seeing my teams on the ladder and if it helps you on the ladder, even better!
    Importable:
    Show Hide

    King (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Queen (Celebi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Calm Mind
    - Baton Pass
    - Recover

    Rook (Landorus-T) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 236 HP / 180 Def / 92 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stealth Rock

    Knight (Keldeo-R) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Secret Sword
    - Surf
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Bishop (Xatu) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 220 HP / 236 Def / 36 SDef / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - U-turn
    - Heat Wave
    - Toxic
    - Roost

    Pawn (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    - Ice Punch
  2. Conduit

    Conduit

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    44
    Threat List
    Major threats in red, minor threats in orange


    [​IMG]Volcarona – The main thing to do is to get rocks up and not let it get more than +1 and let Keldeo take it out as long as it doesn’t have Giga Drain otherwise it is good game at that point. Bulkier variants aren’t too bad as TTar can actually live a Bug buzz at +1. Luckily if it switches into Celebi during a CM, it shouldn’t be too much trouble to Baton pass as they usually set up. It takes some prediction though.

    [​IMG]Mamoswine- The biggest threat tho the team hands down. It hits everything for Super Effective damage bar Keldeo. The only thing I can really do is Lead with Jirachi and break the Lead Sashes and get into Xatu. Basically after that it's just a ohko from either Jirachi or Keldeo but that isn't always the case because they will be switched out 99% of the time. So it pays to keep one if not two of the named checks alive.

    [​IMG]Gyarados- Hp electric Keldeo is my main answer. However there are the Bounce version which threaten Keldeo, and often times I can’t usually stop a DD with other members. So, this is why it pays to play conservatively against Gyarados and U turn frequently until Gyarados comes in… Ttar and Keldeo can both tank a Waterfall and kill it at that point. If it starts becoming too much of a problem, Thunder Punch over Fire Punch on Jirachi would do the trick.

    [​IMG]Dugtrio- *Sigh* Unless I can break the sash before it comes in, this thing takes out ttar and just wrecks it. Normally on sun teams as well, so it pays to trap Ninetales quick – or if you get burned Stone Edge will still KO Ninetales making the opposing team virtually useless. Sometimes opponents come into jirachi but luckily most of the moves KO Duggy especially in sun.

    [​IMG]Landorus-T- If they have HP Ice then Xatu is probably the best switch in or getting Keldeo into it is another plus side. However, Rook should take care of opposing ones because it is almost always faster so the 2hko is there. Stone Edge variants aren’t too scary. Landorus T checks it.

    [​IMG]Infernape- This is a scary ape. It can use so many sets and I never know which one until the first few turns. I’ve lost to some HP Ice infernape, SubSalac Infernape, and some other weird sets on the lower ladder… thankfully I don’t see it too much. The regular sets are checked by either Keldeo, Landorus-T, or Keldeo. Scarfers are the easiest as when they get in a fire attack, Ttar can come in with Stone Edge hitting most switches hard in the case that an opponent does switch. Be careful who you lead with.

    [​IMG]/[​IMG]Keldeo/Rotom-W - The only way these two pose a threat is if they carry HP Bug or Signal Beam respectively. At that point if you don't play your best or get haxed...you'll lose. I hate people that use it -.-

    _________

    [​IMG]Victini- Out of sun, this thing isn’t too formidable. In the sun, Victini is a beast. Luckily Tyranitar is 3-4hkod by Bandtini V create so Pursuit spells the end of it. Just be careful not to switch TTar in too early because it has U turn and maybe Brick Break or Final Gambit.

    [​IMG]Terrakion- I hate the Sash leads because they can get up rocks even on Xatu because of the fear of Stone edge. I’ll lead with Jirachi and just iron head it hopefully getting a crit. If not… it’s already done with after another Iron head or rocks. Luckily, even if the opponent leads with Scarf Terrakion, Jirachi won’t be OHKO’d by Eq although it is annoying to have such an important member lose so much health.

    [​IMG]Tyranitar- Banded and Scarf variants can be iritating. From Band Stone Edges to Scarf Ice Beams, Tyranitar can be scary. Luckily everything on my team has a move to injure it. It is easily handled by Jirachi and Landorus and Keldeo in any case.

    [​IMG]Landorus- Not too much trouble if Celebi is at least health for the most part. One Calm Mind makes it virtually impossible for Landorus to kill Celebi with HP Ice and also gives me more CM set ups. Unfortunately, Celebi isn’t always at full health so it pays to predict and try to get in Xatu and toxic it right away. It’ll eventually succumb to a faint after a few moves. Offensive ones can say hi to Landorus-T and Xatu although HP ice is annoying.

    [​IMG]Garchomp- Ugh, Sub ones aren’t too bad I guess but Yache is irritating thankfully Jirachi can revenge kill it if Landorus T faints. Aqua tail ones are the worst though. So against Garchomps in rain – get in Celebi or Keldeo and Baton Pass. If it’s choiced then it just takes good prediction. If it’s locked in outrage as a Scarf, then lando gets it and if it’s band then Keldeo gets it.

    [​IMG]Hydreigon- Annoying as hell with its coverage. Luckily Jirachi always outspeeds it but a lot of times something goes down first. If it’s against sand or no weather, I suggest getting ttar in on the Fire Blast or Draco meteor then going for a Stone Edge/SuperPower. If it has no focus blast then Ttar should live most attacks even Surf. Otherwise, locked sets can probably get set up on by Celebi followed by a BP to Keldeo who also checks Hydreigon.

    [​IMG]Heatran- Only a threat if its specs or scarf because nothing on my team likes a STAB Fire Blast or the notable HP Ice/Grass/Earth Power. In any case Keldeo, Tyranitar, and Landorus fare well. Against the SR sets just lead Jirachi and U turn into Xatu, then U turn into Keldeo as they usually Lava Plume and follow with Surf/Secret Sword. If they predict that and still get up rocks – Oh well just f*** it up after.
  3. Truuu

    Truuu

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Hey man, great team! I can see why it does so well. First of all, I don't see the necessity of band tar, If you ran more sp def, you could perhaps check volc a little easier while still hitting "threats" such as lati@s. I saw your calcs but I'm not very convinced by calm mind on the celebi, Kyurem b turns it into substitute bait so perhaps psychic would be a more pragmatic choice. Otherwise, excellent team!!!!
  4. Dakar

    Dakar

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    94
    This is just a quick suggestion; I'm heading out to dinner soon and will be able to do a full analysis after.

    Since you seem to have problems with Gyrados and Volcarona, you could try changing up Jirachi's moveset by adding in HP Rock and running it as a mixed Scarfer, using a 4 HP/128 Atk/124 Sp. Atk/252 Sp. Def. EV spread, switching Ice Punch for it.

    Alternatively, you could also switch Ice Punch for Trick, shutting down Volcarona and Gyarados (Especially if they're boosting).
  5. Conduit

    Conduit

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    44
    Hey Truuu :3
    The only reason I really like having Tyranitar is because I don't have to worry about not KO'ing Sub Latias sets which is one of my biggest fears despite having Jirachi. The SDef variants, while being my favorite set, does well but I don't think it would pose as much of a threat while also trapping Ninetales.
    But you're right it would help a lot with Volc - so would this set work with the same moves...
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    EVs: 180 HP / 176 Atk / 152 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    I'll definitely test this.

    Also, you're right Kyurem can be a pain, but I usually send a CM boost to Jirachi so that EP isn't as threatening and Spam Iron head. I've been testing Psychic over Giga Drain overall and that has worked better so far so you're definitely right about that.
    But otherwise I kind of like Calm Mind because it's something more unique :).

    Thanks so much for the rate, you're one of my fav battlers/clan member :D
    ________

    Hey Dakar! Mixed Rachi does seem quite interesting but after one Quiver Dance, Hp Rock only 2hko's unfortunately. So, I would have to get it in with the perfect prediction to KO it. Ice Punch is actually more useful though because of Dragons being another huge threat to the team.

    However Trick over Fire Punch is a good idea as it also cripples stall. Good idea and thanks for the rate :)
  6. VN.

    VN. im african and you know i got hyenus
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    989
    Ahh I remember fighting this team [I won lol ggGG]

    Anyways have you considered trying out SD Scizor over Jirachi? Tornadus-T obviously isn't a thing at Smogon and hopefully at PO after the test concludes, and I see a few benefits to Scizor for this team. It checks Mamo along with most of the stuff that Jirachi does and also adds a bit of an offensive presence to the team since CB Tar can do a good job at softening/trapping most of its counters. One set in particular that might benefit this team is SD Flight Gem Acrobatics Scizor, this set basically lures in and wrecks stuff that think they counter Scizor like Tentacruel and Jellicent, which also happen to be counters to Keldeo, making it easier for him to sweep and all that. The only real problem I see with this is that you'd lose a Scarfer, so maybe run Scarf Keldeo over the current like Ginga has, which can also check Volcarona a lot better, the only problem I see with that is that you lose the ability to vary in your attacks once Celebi BPasses which can hurt your ability to damage stall and even offense, though in all honesty I think a team with CB Tar and SD AcroScizor can pretty much remove all of Keldeo's counters easily. So yeah, Scarfkeld and SD Scizor>Jirachi is just something to think about, the team is really at the peak stage I think, where any changes probably open up or add a bit of weakness in other areas. Good team though, luvdisced!

    EDIT: Ohh also, definitely change Tyranitar's EVs, probably run enough speed to outspeed Jellicent and Skarmory, as owning those 2 is one of the main merits of CB Tar, you probably want to be at around 183 Spe, maybe more because of speed creep, but yeah it's pretty essential you hit this point lol.
  7. Conduit

    Conduit

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    44
    :< Yeah I think I remember you, yesterday?
    Anyway, Scizor does sound like a really good addition to the team, as it does take care of Mamo and some of the other threats. Honestly, Acrobatics is new to me so I would definitely give it a try. However, the only problem with Scizor>Jirachi is my lack of a solid lead/scarfer. In a lot of situation, Jirachi gets me the KO against potential sweepers while also proving to be effective in some way contributing to taking out opposing leads or ensuring Sand is the only weather up. Plus, Keldeo really needs the ability to use 4 moves but once again I can't say you're wrong with SD Acro Scizor... that just looks like it would fit really well so I'll test that out... Boy I have some heavy testing to do !

    Edit: Hopefully you didn't face someone that had a d in their name... I won't say their alt or anything but they were using this team and well he isn't the nicest person.
  8. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    461
    Hey man, great team! Very solid, I really only see it losing to specific threats you happen to be weak to, so I'll try to suggest fixes for them specifically, but first some quick set comments:
    Yeah, definitely get more speed on tar, you do NOT want to get burned by jelli or walled because skarm can roost on you. Beating those two is a great benchmark.

    Damn, celebi is suddenly getting a whole new lease on life with the BP business. What is all that speed for on celebi? In general, BPbi wants to be slower than the opp to protect the recipient--honestly, I'd go with no speed on your bi since without psychic it doesn't need to beat adamant loom and would benefit from being slower than everything aiming to beat it. Additionally, I wonder if you'd want a physically defensive spread--while SpDbi with CM is impossible for special attackers to break through, it's still very vulnerable to physical hits. On the other hand, if you get a CM up on a physically defnsive bi, the opp will have a hard time damaging it with anything. This would also help your gyara and mamo weaknesses, as defneisve bi is a p good bet vs gyara (forces it to use a rpedictable bounce, which you BP to ttar on) and lead mamo manages ~30% max vs bi with shard. Additionally, I really wonder why you don't use psychic > giga--it hits literally everything you listed harder, and particularly on CMbi you're not threatened by waters at all, so it's not necessary to hit them SE imo.

    Landy looks good, nothing to add there.

    Keldeo is fine, my one question is the hp slot--idk how much help hp electric really will be on non-scarfed deo since you can't even switch in to gyara, as it jsut gets +1 and then bounces, and then sweeps. Why not go for hp ghost, which hits basically everything the same except lets you hit lati@s and celebi harder (or even hp bug, but then you lose coverage on jelli)? Additionally, I do wonder how much sweeping you'll be able to get done when any scarfer can come in and outspeed you--have you considered scarfing deo (i know this is what I run, and it may jsut be because rain lets me spam surf so i dont need to switch moves as often)? This would also let you change rachi's item/slot--as was mentioned multipe times, SpDrachi could work well on the team. Then again, different sets work well on different teams and the versatility of ebelt is super valuable as well.

    Xatu is good, I'm not super familiar with him so not much to add. I wonder if a more offensive anti-hazard mon could work though, like a spinner--maybe sandslash actually? With SD, this thing gets past all the ghosts easily, and it actually really helps vs volc, gyara, victini, terrakion (leads: you eq and then RS, free kill and no rocks). I'm not sure if xatu is strictly necessary synergy-wise, so I wonder why not try out slash? A LO set could work well (SD / RS / EQ / SE).

    Rachi seems good, not much to add :) Could try out tpunch somewhere for gyara.

    OK, solid team overall, I think you noted basically all the weaknesses. I really wonder if you might want to try slash > xatu--not only is it more offensive (which seems to fit your team better), it does arguably as good a job as xatu of keeping hazards off the field since it can beat the standard blockers, while having some sort of set-up sweeper definitely helps vs stall (other than CMbi of course :D). It also helps a ton vs volc, gyara, terrakion, heatran, and it gives you a cool ttar switch-in due to its nice defense. Then again, slash is a kinda mediocre mon but I could see it working on this team.

    Let's see, other stuff. I feel like this team could really benefit from some kind of bulky water--volc, gyara, nape, victini, and tran all seem to suggest something like this, while a bulky defensive water also helps vs mamo, landy-t, ttar, and chomp. I'm not completely sure completely what to suggest and over what, but i could see fitting something in > rachi if you go with the slash option, as that gives you a RSer and a revenge-killer all in one. Maybe try out something like defensive rotom-w, idk.

    Anyway these suggestions might very well not work out for you and the team is obviously already solid as is, so imo don't go out of your way to try and check these threats if they'll just expose more problems. Nice work on the team man, glad to see another user of BPbi, luvdisced for that if nothing else xD.
  9. Conduit

    Conduit

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Damn that's a long rate but I like it ;).

    I've already been testing 108 and 176 Speed Ev's on TTar and I like the former much better than the current spread I'm using so I'll update that.

    I'll be honest, the speed on Celebi has been there mainly to ensure I'm faster than Adamant Scizor and opposing Celebi because I don't like taking a U turn from either. Also, it's surprisingly effective against Tentacruel that don't have heavy speed investment. Also, the fact that I can outspeed Modest Politoed is a plus. I'll try running a lower speed which I guess would help but honestly I usually get outsped anyway. I actually tried a defensive set but I was really weak to Rain without a CM so I opted out so as not to rely on getting CM just to take a Hydro Pump in the rain.

    Actually, you'll be surprised but when I play right Gyarados doesn't get too many chances to get DD up. Noting that I have 4 Pokemon that can switch out with a move- Keldeo can just come in on a Gyarados. But in the usual case as it does get +1, it can be pain. Obviously the few things I can do are get into Landorus for the Intimidate and then get to Rachi and spam Iron Head/Ice Punch. So yeah a Scarf would help but to be honest I prefer Scarf Rachi over Keldeo and the access to 4 moves is too good to pass up imo. Also, Keldeo does get many sweeps. Most scarfers can't really OHKO but it depends. Honestly, I don't just stay in after a boost if there is a threat coming in since that's rash. I do have to switch out a lot, that's for sure. But Keldeo has put its weight numerous times.

    I dunno, Xatu really isn't the best when it comes to typing - so yeah the team doesn't look too good on paper - but it's really effective at stopping hazards at the get go. I was quite honestly considering Foresight Hitmonchan over Xatu but that won't work as well I can already tell. But, Sandslash does get Sand Rush so I will have to try that out because it would be like Exca in some ways.

    I guess a Bulky water like Slowbro/Rotom-W would work but quite honestly putting that over Keldeo would be my only option and then this team would really be offensively weak :o.

    Overall, thanks for the rate man, you're the best :)

    This is what I'm testing :

    Faster TTAR - In process
    Thunder Punch over FIre Punch on Jirachi - In process
    Sandslash over Xatu - Going to
    Lower Speed Celebi - Going to
    Psychic over Giga Drain on Celebi - In Process

    This is what I tested but didn't really like the changes sorry :<
    SD Acro Scizor
    Trick Jirachi
  10. D i a b l o

    D i a b l o Guest

    Hi man;

    Nice team you have but there are some mistake on sets; first of all Tyranitar, it must have 144 on Spd for exceed Jellicent e Abomasnow, then, at Landorus-T you can put only 12 on Spd (with Jolly nature) for exceed Tentacruel, RotomW (specially defensive) and Breloom.
    Celebi must have Nasty Plot>Calm Mind for that set, IMO because Keldeo is revengekilled by Latios, Terrakion or opponent Keldeo with Psyshock or Secret Sword so useless.
    Last thing is Jirachi, in your team Trick is very important for Volcarona, so you can change Fire Punch on Trick (Fire Punch because Ice Punch is important for dragon, obviously).

    Good Look for the team, dude :DD
  11. Livio

    Livio
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Hey dude, the teams seems cool and is really solid, but as you above told, you have some embarassing weakness, first of all Gyarados, especially the sub DDancer. It has totally free setup on 5 your pokemon (Rachi locked on Ice Punch/Iron Head, TTar locked on Superpower, Xatu, Celebi and, if the oppo discovers that u don t run rock move, Lando-T too) and you have no way to stop it after only one dance. Since you are also weak to Mamoswine and Landorus-T (and Keldeo in case of Hp Bug) i would suggest you to try Rotom-W, with a moveset of: Will-o-Wisp/Hydro Pump/Volt Switch/Pain Split and an Evs spread of 252HP/208Def/36Satk/16Spd Modest Nature. It allows you to enter on whatever move of these pokemons, avoids the 2hoko by LO Mamoswine Adamant Superpower, and has not problem to enter on Secret Sword of Keldeo (Landorus and Celebi in caso of Hp bug are not a good switch in), it also helps you to make Gyarados not more a threat of your team. Furthermore is a good answer to a threat that you didn t mention, i mean Lando-N with U-turn, since you have nothing that could enter on it and need to take risks with some prediction. The main problem is the pokemon that should replace, Keldeo is your only sweeper, and other pokemons seem indispensable for the functioning of the team. A possibility is Xatu, but you have to consider how much can be annoying for your team the Entry Hazards, not much a problem in my opinion since this team is a sort of Full volt-turn and most of times you should have the so-called "Momentum".

    Hope I helped, see ya ^

    Tl;dr

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 36 SAtk / 16 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Pain Split
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
  12. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    Hi, sorry, it will be a quick rate because I don't have much time to rate nowadays. However, the team looks classic and cool. The only thing coming out of the blue is Xatu (that to be honest, I find pointless because it does not help your team so much, and many of your weaknesses are amplificated by its presence).
    So don't get too angry about people using a version of this team, because basically you would be saying that you invented Sand BO x).

    Oh well, onto the rate, I noticed that a Bulky Gyarados deals with absolutly all your weaknesses. You should give it a try over Xatu. And, I'd change Landorus-T for the Incarnate version with a set like SR/U-Turn/HPIce/EP or something like that with a bulky spread.
    Finally, I'd definitely get rid of Fire Punch on Jirachi for Healing Wish (so much more useful, really, giving a second life to your sweepers is something you always want and it helps to trap aswell), and give more Speed to your Ttar because at the moment, he won't be trapping anything called Jellicent (which is kind of annoying but you got some good answers to the blue blob).
    Oh and, Jolly Jirachi is most of the time useless, unless you want to speed tie Scarf Mence. Try an Adamant Nature with just enough speed for Haxorus Adamant at +1, or for Dragonite at +1 if you think that no one cares about Haxorus (this will give you a nice extra bulk to toy with).

    I hope I helped, sorry for the quick rate considering that you requested one, good luck !
  13. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    You are very weak to sun teams, as you have already outlined in your post, this is because your only two fire resistor (tyranitar and keldeo) cant really do much against a sun team, sure choice band tyranitar can pursuit ninetales to death, but it has to be carefull if the opponent has dugtrio. In general i dont think that only tyranitar is enough to take care of sun, so you probably need to change something in your team.

    At the moment the only thing that comes to my mind is running and orb Latios over something, sun teams are often weak to its draco meteor and its typing helps a lot when facing Victini/Venusaur. Basically if you look at your threathlist you will find that any problem is fixed if you put Latios. To be honest i would put it instead of xatu, because they check some of the same things, such as Breloom and other fights, but with Hidden power fire / Surf / Draco meteor / Recover. I know psyshock is always usefull to take care of fighting types, but surf is essential to hit Heatran and tyranitar, and hidden power fire will affievolite your weakness to Ferrothorn, Forretress and Skarmory, limiting the chance they have to setup hazards on you.

    The only last problem i see is volcarona, but i dont think there is a lot to do to fix it, just hit it hard with everything you have in, and try to setup stealth rock early. Keldeo should be able to tank an hit anyway, and if you hate bulky variants you can opt for Trick over Ice punch on jirachi to limit its sweep.
    Other than that, great team!
  14. Conduit

    Conduit

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    Dead Whiz
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    Hey man thanks! So I've been testing a 108/184 speed TTAR and I've found the first one to be really helpful but I've thought of going somewhere in the middle as I just got outsped by a Jelli which really hampered it. So I'll test out the 144 speed which looks pretty good. The speed of Landorus actually allow me to outspeed Jolly loom and plus it's nice to outspeed other Landorus-T. On Celebi, Calm Mind is irreplaceable in my opinion because this team really needs the SDEF boosts or at least that's what it feels like to me. Celebi always comes back to set up later :)
    Trick on Jirachi honestly hasn't worked to well for me. I've been finding Thunder Punch to be so helpful against Gyara so far.
    Thanks for the rate man :).


    Uomo Solo
    Show Hide

    Rotom-W really never came to mind to be honest. It actually looks like it will fit well, although losing Keldeo would be a bad idea. I think I will try it over Xatu and see how it works for the most part. Although I become horribly weak to Breloom.
    Thanks so much for the rate :).


    Remedy
    Show Hide

    Hey man! Thanks for the rate! Sorry if that part of the intro came out like that but I didn't mean that I was mad about it - and I know this is pretty much a standard team - but the movesets were the same ;o.
    Alright so... Bulky Gyarados sounds great - I would run something along the lines of Dtail/Roar, Waterfall, Rest, Sleeptalk. However, without a spinner its longevity is hindered even with rest because it won't be able to come in on a lot of the attacks it is intended for losing a fourth of its health.
    Landorus - I doesn't get Intimidate though which Is my only problem with it - along with the fact that it isn't as Bulky though it does hit harder.
    Jirachi- Healing Wish sounds surprisingly effective and I will have to try it over the Thunderpunch I'm testing. Adamant sounds efficient(Jolly only really for tying other achi)
    Thanks :3.


    Neliel
    Show Hide

    Yes, sun teams are quite the issue in most cases especially since the common ones have
    a Ninetales, Volcarona, Dugtrio core. Tyranitar is usually brought in to trap after Ninetales is sitting at about 60% or less. However, it's hard to do so with Dugtrio everywhere. I've been thinking of running a physical set with a Shed Shell instead.

    Latios does seem like a nice fit but with my play style I would probably lean towards CM Latias with HP fire. However, it won't really be the best check against Ferro and Heatran whom are pretty good partners. So, I'll be testing Latios as well.

    Volca :< yeah. Thanks for the rate man!


    So Pokemon wise -
    Testing Rotom-w over Xatu, Gyarados over Xatu, and Latios over Xatu.
  15. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    I may have been unclear damn. I was talking about a Sub/DD set with Intimidate and some EVs in HP so like, say, set-up on a Keldeo, or on a Scizor... something like that.
    The point isn't to come in and out several times, you come in once on one of your threats (Volcarona, Mamo, Nape, Keldeo...) you cancel their sweep and you start yours. Gyara doesn't have much surefire counters. Rotom-W is one, but considering the presence of Keldeo (and if you chose this path, of Lando) you'll overload him pretty easily and I can bet that the Rotom-W won't be really healthy when he will need to stop Gyarados. Moreover, all Gyarados's counters are totally set-up bait for a Celebi.
    The Healing Wish helping just a ton in this case, because basically you'll have two attempts to sweep available with Gyarados.

    I hope I've been clearer.
  16. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

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    hi man cool team. the tried and tru tar keld combo always puts in work. i dont see why u would have so much speed on tar, but if u intend on keeping that speed i suggest that u move the hp evs to spdef to increase special bulk for volc. Moreover i would recommend that u switch fire punch on rachi for zen hb which not only helps v volc, gyara, ebelt keld, but also croak which can potentially sweep w an sd up under rain. I think psychic has more coverage on celebi but thats just an opinion. I dont see a huge significance in xatu so it's the most replaceable. I think having a starmie would help again kyurem, ebelt keld, and gengar (u still need to predict around this). starm also doubles as a great cushion mon to pivot vs sun and rain etc, and generally has more utility than xatu who eclipses celebi. other than that the team looks solid, but i woulda personally use hp bug on keld. good luck!
  17. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    Sorry to double post, but after some testing with your team, i was thinking that a rain dance keldeo with water gem is probably the best way to fix your weakness to sun without changing any pokemon, try it instead of one of your coverage move. Sure it kinda nerf your sand inducer but.. i dont even think you care that much about rain, nothing here really "abuse" of sand. Give it a try :3
  18. Conduit

    Conduit

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    Remedy
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    That's an interesting suggestion Remedy - However, I really don't think that Gyarados is going to help all that much with my threatlist bar Volcarona and variants of Infernape etc. I would most likely have used it if it weren't for the fact that I just need to have a spinner if I'm using a Pokemon with a Rock weakness because that's the kind of playstyle I shoot for - conservative. I"ve been liking Zen Headbutt on Jirachi as my last slot so I think I'm going to keep testing it. As for Xatu - I've been using the Latios suggestion and it's been doing all right - Life Orb variant.
    Thanks man ;)


    CTC
    Show Hide

    Hey Ctc! I've been testing Zen Headbutt and 92 speed TTAR and I've seen the team do a lot better, still Jellicent, but also against Toxicroak, Tentacruel, and especially Keldeo. I tested Starmie but honestly it didn't get too much time to Rapid Spin considering the team's weakness to Lando T and the fact that most of the threat list does a number to it. I tend to use a Reflect Type variant which didn't do so well with this team and then I tried a more offensive set which kept getting trapped. Latios over Xatu has been working alright though.
    Thanks so much for the rate :)


    Neliel
    Show Hide

    I've used a Rain Dance Keldeo before to deal with things like Venusaur and Victreebel but I didn't really consider it for this team. It seems like a pretty cool set and I probably won't miss to much with HP elec since a STAB Surf in rain would do a toll to Gyarados. Although, making me that much more Gyara weak :<. I'll try it though.
    Thanks for the suggestion :P
  19. StrawHatIan

    StrawHatIan

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
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    Hi Conduit! This is a pretty solid team you have. I have a suggestion for a change you could make. A physical Rain Dance Kingdra would make a pretty solid check to most of your threats, bar Gyarados. If a pure physical set doesn't fit, then you could try a mixed set mainly for opposing Landorus-T. Rain Dance can help you win weather wars and it'll shut down sun teams, I believe this was mentioned before. You could swap out Xatu for it if need be. That's just my suggestion, but this will still be a good team regardless of whether you take it.

    Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 40 SAtk / 228 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Rain Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Outrage
    - Ice Beam
    Feel free to tinker with the ev spread and the last moveslot isn't set into stone.
  20. kakuna

    kakuna

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
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    Sun teams and rain teams alike are pretty threatening to you, as you rely on celebi to repel almost all rain teams and tyranitar to carry you through against sun. Sun is the bigger problem of the two because it often utilizes dugtrio to trap tyranitar and then sun is up for good, which makes jirachi, celebi, xatu, and keldeo much less effective. I think an additional water and fire resist would help you out so I am suggesting latias over your current xatu. The set could be calm mind, life orb tank, or choice scarf. Latias is adept at taking hits from sun sweepers and could help to kill sun sweepers. Why choice scarf though when you have scarf jirachi??? Because you should try out rapid spin forretress with spikes support over jirachi. Keeping a scarfer is pretty essential, latias (or latios) or keldeo would be the ideal places to use a choice scarf. For one forretress would help against gyarados who can kind of steamroll your current build due to everything but jirachi and xatu being weak to its viciously powerful STAB combination. Forretress can volt switch put for about 45% and go into your new scarfer who can kill gyarados with draco meteor or HP electric, depending on which one you pick.

    Summary:
    Forretress > Jirachi
    Scarf*/Calm Mind/LO Lati@s over xatu
    *If not scarf use scarf keldeo
  21. Conduit

    Conduit

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    Strawhatian
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    Kingdra looks promising. I've been testing out Latios and that has been doing very well so Kingdra would also be a good test over Latios since both serve similar purposes. However, I really find Ferrothorn to be a problem otherwise - Luckily Lat can nail it with hp fire. I believe I would use HP Fire/Fighting over Ice Beam or Rain Dance and I will run a Hydro/Dpulse set. Thanks for the rate :3


    Kakuna
    Show Hide

    Yeah, they are quite irritant but mostly Sun. I have to fear Dugtrio constantly which is why I tested a Shed Shell variant of TTAR which has been doing okay although the difference in power is highly noticable. Anyway, I've actually been testing Latios over Xatu for quite some time and I think that with a bit of tweaks with Ev's it would make the team so much better. I think a Life Orb Latias would function similarly although it would lose a lot of power. Anyway, Foretress may help with spinning but it just makes me weak to Latis and Gengar and many other special threats.
    Thanks for the rate :3
  22. AJR

    AJR

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    Don't have much time for a rate, but off the top of my head you could think about running a bulky Gyarados instead of Landorus-T. It does basically everything Lando does (doesn't hard counter Terrak ofc but still a decent check), but also covers Volcarona, Mamoswine, other Gyarados, Keldeo, Infernape, Victini, both Landorus, Garchomp, and Heatran - in other words, practically your entire threat list.

    Doing so would require shifting SR somewhere else, of course (Jirachi, Tyranitar and Celebi can all potentially make room), but I think it's still definitely a change you could try.

    Hope that helps! Nice team, good luck :)
  23. Conduit

    Conduit

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    AJR
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    I think that Stealth Rock on anything but Landorus T would weaken the sets they already have and plus the benefit of Landorus is its electric weakness and ability to actually check Dragons taking them out with Intimidate and HP Ice. Although, you're right Gyarados would help with checking threats - it would go down relatively quick with such a large burden and 3x Electric weakness + 2 SR weaknesses makes the team seem incredibly vulnerable to Rain - more than it is. Although, Latios has helped take care of some previous weaknesses but not by much. I'm honestly going to Kingdra now and will be testing that over Xatu for now.

    Thanks so much for the rate! ;)


    So ultimately some other testing that has occurred:
    Starmie Reflect Type - Worked very well but I just want to see some other Pokemon in the mix
    Psychic Celebi - Worked very well except Gastrodon / Quagsire were relative pains so I shall keep Giga Drain just for them... for now =.=
    Kingdra - Will be trying
    Latios - I got to 1348 with Latios over Xatu (Ladder reset) which was around rank 48 but as I started to realize I kept losing to the common Scizor because Bullet Punch was always a threat along with predicting pursuit...
    DD Gyara - Over Xatu this thing just kept dying to rocks... I tried healing wish Achi but more often than not it was more important than Gyara...
    Rotom - I didn't see this help the team too much which I found Xatu to be much more helpful against stall - The only thing Rotom helped with was Heatran to be honest.
  24. Conduit

    Conduit

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    Clefairy
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    Well, I don't think I said I invented the set and to be honest I have a similar set on my RSE OU team as well. But it is an uncommon set in this metagame and has only recently started gaining popularity, in this Meta, probably because people started to use Baton Pass over U turn to escape Pursuiters which has been a pretty common move but then realize they can pass boosts as well. I think you might be referring to my post directed toward Keldeo and Ginga but that was all in good fun! Sorry if I came off like that though.

    On a side note - I did invent a Belly Drum Slowbro set that I used in my in game team in Gen 2 :).


    Edit: To keep this on topic - Kingdra has not worked very well as it's not bulky enough to support the team or cover my Rain Weakness that much. I have tried a rest talk variant that's actually been doing well. I'm going to revert to Starmie for a bit.
  25. blunder

    blunder

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    Who made this set?

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