Pokémon Chesnaught (Revamp Occurring)

[sims796]

This is not to say that Ferrothorn usage won't keep Chesnaught down, quite the opposite. However, Chesty's unique in that he's able to accomplish specific tasks, and check specific threats.

I'll admit, Ferro's one of my favorite spikers. Often, I'd just throw him in when I need a wall and call it a day. No pre planning or anything, just "huh, I think I should have something tanky here...@#$% it, Ferrothorn" and he'd rarely disappoint.

However, if you need something to set up Spike, but you reeaaally want the other team to not have Tyranitar on the field, use Chesnaught. If you need a spiker, but you don't want to set aside another team slot for a phazer, use Chesnaught. If you need a Spiker, but Excadrill is the one Spinner that none of your other pokemon can handle, use Chesnaught. You you need a Spiker, but @#$% Gengar, use Chesnaught. If you don't like the taste of mushrooms...

Well, you get my point. I'd imagine him having a set dedicated to OU on Smogon's X/Y pokemon analysis. He'll be UU, perhaps. but have that one OU utility.

 

[Otter Power]

He's a good spiker specifically because he does things that Ferro and Klefki cannot; he can set up Spikes, absolutely threaten certain pokes into allowing a free chance to lay down Spikes, and heal himself, all at once. Hell, he can even phaze! And Taunt!

IMO that actually gives him a nice Niche as a counter to other spikers (Especially KLEFKI) whilst being one himself. I completely forgot about taunt, I think that would be really cool when used with spiky shield!

 

[Sōusuke Aizen]

IMO that actually gives him a nice Niche as a counter to other spikers (Especially KLEFKI) whilst being one himself. I completely forgot about taunt, I think that would be really cool when used with spiky shield!

Pretty Sure Klefiki can wall Chesnaught as it resists 1 stab the other neutral.Oh and Prankster Spikes.

 

[AOPSUser]

This is not to say that Ferrothorn usage won't keep Chesnaught down, quite the opposite. However, Chesty's unique in that he's able to accomplish specific tasks, and check specific threats.

I'll admit, Ferro's one of my favorite spikers. Often, I'd just throw him in when I need a wall and call it a day. No pre planning or anything, just "huh, I think I should have something tanky here...@#$% it, Ferrothorn" and he'd rarely disappoint.

However, if you need something to set up Spike, but you reeaaally want the other team to not have Tyranitar on the field, use Chesnaught. If you need a spiker, but you don't want to set aside another team slot for a phazer, use Chesnaught. If you need a Spiker, but Excadrill is the one Spinner that none of your other pokemon can handle, use Chesnaught. You you need a Spiker, but @#$% Gengar, use Chesnaught. If you don't like the taste of mushrooms...

Well, you get my point. I'd imagine him having a set dedicated to OU on Smogon's X/Y pokemon analysis. He'll be UU, perhaps. but have that one OU utility.

Because Tyranitar likes taking Power Whips from Ferrothorn?

There's a reason I never keep my Tyranitar in on a Ferrothorn you know.

 

[sims796]

Alright, now you're just nitpicking. Yes, Ferrothorn can handle Ttar (for the most part). The point wasn't that Chesnaught can handle him and Ferro can't. If you really wanna get technical, Chesnaught can handle him better than Ferro, as Ttar is highly allergic to Hammer Arm and has both of his STABs resisted, (and Ferro lost his resistance to Dark). As long as Tar isn't packing Ice Beam for whatever reason.

But that's splitting hairs, and besides the point that I made in the post that you've quoted.

 

[AOPSUser]

Alright, now you're just nitpicking. Yes, Ferrothorn can handle Ttar (for the most part). The point wasn't that Chesnaught can handle him and Ferro can't. If you really wanna get technical, Chesnaught can handle him better than Ferro, as Ttar is highly allergic to Hammer Arm and has both of his STABs resisted, (and Ferro lost his resistance to Dark). As long as Tar isn't packing Ice Beam for whatever reason.

But that's splitting hairs, and besides the point that I made in the post that you've quoted.

That was one of the points you cited about using Chesnaught over Ferrothorn. And there's more Fire Blast TTars than Ice Beam ones but it's not like Chesnaught is surviving a Fire Blast either.

You can't beat Gengar consistently because a lot of them run either Dazzling Gleam, HP Fire, or HP Ice.

Also if your entire team can't handle Excadrill, then you probably wouldn't have done well in early BW1, lol. Excadrill isn't something teams are scared of these days, especially since so many things outspeed him now and the now-common bulky Ghosts take shits on him.

And it's not like Excadrill can get past Ferrothorn that easily anyways.

 

[sims796]

That was one of the points you cited about using Chesnaught over Ferrothorn. And there's more Fire Blast TTars than Ice Beam ones but it's not like Chesnaught is surviving a Fire Blast either.

You can't beat Gengar consistently because a lot of them run either Dazzling Gleam, HP Fire, or HP Ice.

Also if your entire team can't handle Excadrill, then you probably wouldn't have done well in early BW1, lol. Excadrill isn't something teams are scared of these days, especially since so many things outspeed him now and the now-common bulky Ghosts take shits on him.

And it's not like Excadrill can get past Ferrothorn that easily anyways.

And still very much nitpicky. Point is, there are things that Chesnaught can do that Ferrothorn simply cannot. If Fire Blast Ttars are so popular, then why is it scared of Ferrothorn, which takes a Fire Blast far worse?

No, you cannot beat every variant of Gengar. You can force a switch on the ones that lack either of the moves that you've mentioned.

And Finally, Excadrill can get past Ferro easily. By spinning. That is it's main purpose, and it only has to do it once. It is still a powerful spinner, and if for some reason your team lacks a way to stop that particular poke from accomplishing his task, you have a Spiker that can easily get rid of him, or at the very least, scare him away in one shot.

As I've said quite a few times, Chesnaught can do things that Ferro cannot. He can phase, Taunt, actually handle and outright check a few popular OU mons with his very presence.

 

[FlameUser64]

Actually, I've found Chesnaught with a utility set to be fairly useful so far, as it lets the rest of my team do other things without having to have more than one Pokémon dedicated to hazards/phazing. My Chesnaught has Leftovers and is running Spiky Shield, Roar, Spikes, and Hammer Arm. Turns out that Goodra's Special Attack really sucks and it has paper-thin physical defence. Many people on Showdown seem to have the idea in their heads that Chesnaught can't take a Fire Blast from Goodra. Sure, it 2HKOs doing ~64% each hit, but that means you have to hit with a Fire Blast twice in a row and honestly, there are a ton of things Chesnaught can switch in on and then Spiky Shield against for Leftovers recovery, and that's if it's not running Synthesis. Many times I have switched in Chesnaught on a predicted Volt Switch, then had the opponent send in Goodra, on the basis of hitting Chesnaught with Fire Blast, only to have Goodra be OHKOd by Hammer Arm. This is with 4 Attack EVs and a neutral nature, as well as uninvested Special Defence.

 

[AOPSUser]

And still very much nitpicky. Point is, there are things that Chesnaught can do that Ferrothorn simply cannot. If Fire Blast Ttars are so popular, then why is it scared of Ferrothorn, which takes a Fire Blast far worse?

No, you cannot beat every variant of Gengar. You can force a switch on the ones that lack either of the moves that you've mentioned.

And Finally, Excadrill can get past Ferro easily. By spinning. That is it's main purpose, and it only has to do it once. It is still a powerful spinner, and if for some reason your team lacks a way to stop that particular poke from accomplishing his task, you have a Spiker that can easily get rid of him, or at the very least, scare him away in one shot.

As I've said quite a few times, Chesnaught can do things that Ferro cannot. He can phase, Taunt, actually handle and outright check a few popular OU mons with his very presence.

Well most TTar don't run Fire Blast and can't get past either.

But anyways, if Excadrill Spins in front of Ferrothorn that's dumb, Power Whip 2HKOes and Iron Barbs hurts badly. Nothing's stopping him from doing it after Ferro is gone, but it's the same situation with Chesnaught.

Chesnaught and Ferrothorn, thanks to their differing movepools and typings, check different popular OU mons with their presence.

 

[sims796]

Well most TTar don't run Fire Blast and can't get past either.

But anyways, if Excadrill Spins in front of Ferrothorn that's dumb, Power Whip 2HKOes and Iron Barbs hurts badly. Nothing's stopping him from doing it after Ferro is gone, but it's the same situation with Chesnaught.

Chesnaught and Ferrothorn, thanks to their differing movepools and typings, check different popular OU mons with their presence.

Um, yes. That was my point. Amonst other things. I'm not quite sure what the back and forth was about in this case. If I were to nitpick, Hammer Arm is a definite OHKO, but that is irrelevant to the main point.

 

[AOPSUser]

Um, yes. That was my point. Amonst other things. I'm not quite sure what the back and forth was about in this case. If I were to nitpick, Hammer Arm is a definite OHKO, but that is irrelevant to the main point.

Three of your main points don't really make any sense. Of course Chesnaught does get Roar over Ferrothorn. But the TTar, Gengar, and Excadrill points don't really hold much water.

That said, Chesnaught is kinda hard to use in the current metagame. Talonflame and Aegislash are just not going down anytime soon and we all know Chesnaught beats Greninja right? (/sarcasm). Plus hazards are a bit easier to get rid of this gen, and Crobat and Skarmory have a giant type advantage against Chesnaught, and they can just Defog away your Spikes.

And Grass/Fighting isn't that good of a defensive typing. That 4x Flying weakness is not good since it attracts Defoggers, which means you have to either give up Roar for Stone Edge or give up your recovery or STAB. Plus it's weak to Fire, one of the most common coverage moves in the game (ironically thanks to Ferrothorn), weak to Ice (another common coverage type), and doesn't have that many resists. And its Special Defense isn't exactly winning any awards.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows not to spam Sludge Bomb against Chesnaught lol.

 

[sims796]

I'm sorry, but it's as if you neglected to read the rest of the thread. All of these points were discussed in detail repeatedly.

Yeah, as long as Excadrill remains a top tier threat (and Aegislash too) and the premier rapid spinner, Chesnaught will be a very viable option, being both a hard counter to Excadrill and also preventing him from immediately spinning away his Spikes. Not to mention that the second best spinner, Mega Blastoise, also doesn't like switching into Chesnaught and can be stalled out very easily with Leech Seed (no Lefties on Mega Blastoise helps a lot with this), while Mega Blastoise can't break through Chesnaught if it got seeded on the switch and lacks Ice Beam.

Being able to immediately counter Ttar, hold back certain Gengar, and OHKO a prime Spinner is nothing to scoff at, and that isn't even all that he is able to check. Having a 4x weakness to flying of all things is tough, but certainly not the worst - heck, flying as an offensive type isn't even on of the more common types! We've mentioned time and time again that he has weaknesses to both Fire and Ice; two attacks primarily Special in nature, to a mon that isn't supposed to take special attacks. All you are doing is listing things that beats Chesnaught, and I could do the same for Ferro. He's not supposed to wall Greninja. He's not supposed to tank Talonflame. Hazards being easier to handle is a point against all hazard starters. He simply has options to handle a few of them. If you really wanted to pick on him, try calling out that Fairy weakness, which is also manageable.

And what do you mean by "Of course Chesnaught does get Roar over Ferrothorn."? That's a rather major point to use him over another spiker.

As it has been mentioned - constantly, I might add - he's supposed to come in on his many resists (6 in total, all common in one fashion or another), set up spikes, and check certain mons hard, such as yes, Ttar, Breloom, some Gengar, certain Mega Blastoise, etc. If you're using him in fear of Greninja, you are doing something horribly wrong. It isn't his place to stay in, it's to use his typing to come in easily, and use his vast support options to be able to do his job.

 

[AOPSUser]

I'm sorry, but it's as if you neglected to read the rest of the thread. All of these points were discussed in detail repeatedly.





Being able to immediately counter Ttar, hold back certain Gengar, and OHKO a prime Spinner is nothing to scoff at, and that isn't even all that he is able to check. Having a 4x weakness to flying of all things is tough, but certainly not the worst - heck, flying as an offensive type isn't even on of the more common types! We've mentioned time and time again that he has weaknesses to both Fire and Ice; two attacks primarily Special in nature, to a mon that isn't supposed to take special attacks. All you are doing is listing things that beats Chesnaught, and I could do the same for Ferro. He's not supposed to wall Greninja. He's not supposed to tank Talonflame. Hazards being easier to handle is a point against all hazard starters. He simply has options to handle a few of them. If you really wanted to pick on him, try calling out that Fairy weakness, which is also manageable.

And what do you mean by "Of course Chesnaught does get Roar over Ferrothorn."? That's a rather major point to use him over another spiker.

As it has been mentioned - constantly, I might add - he's supposed to come in on his many resists (6 in total, all common in one fashion or another), set up spikes, and check certain mons hard, such as yes, Ttar, Breloom, some Gengar, certain Mega Blastoise, etc. If you're using him in fear of Greninja, you are doing something horribly wrong. It isn't his place to stay in, it's to use his typing to come in easily, and use his vast support options to be able to do his job.

Chesnaught gets Roar but it does have 4MSS, especially on a Spiking set.

I never said you're using him for Greninja, but that he is beaten hard by the top three mons in OU currently, which makes him hard to use.

Also, some Gengar, some Mega Blastoise. You do have to scout those movesets first, make sure Blastoise isn't using Ice Beam, Mega Gengar doesn't have Hidden Power, etc. I haven't seen Breloom on the ladder more than twice, and it is relatively rare.

And shouldn't it be "Some TTar" too thanks to Fire Blast (which I've seen a decent number of them run)?

Its weaknesses are manageable but so are Ferrothorn's. And it's weak to the three most used mons in OU, which makes it a bit hard to use.

And it's not supposed to take special attacks, but the opponent is going to use exactly those on Chesnaught: special attackers. Fire and Ice just happen to be especially common special attacking moves.

Isn't Ice Beam common on Blastoise anyways? If not it really should be.

 

[sims796]

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Nature: Impish
- Spikes
- Hammer Arm
- Synthesis
- Roar / Leech Seed

By far the best set Chesnaught can run. SubSeed and boosting sets suck in OU for obvious reasons that have already been mentioned but this set is quite useful. It deals with quite a big deal of metagame defining threats, such as Excadrill, Tyranitar (DD MegaTtar sets too, which are fucking scary for some teams), Landorus-T, Gengar, and Aegislash, and does something useful with the switches it forces by using Spikes. You don't really need a Grass STAB as almost none of the Pokemon that you are using Chesnaught for cares about Seed Bomb, and Hammer Arm and Roar get the job against the Pokemon that you want to check. Roar is a great move on Chesnaught that more people should use, and it deals with Pokemon such as SD Aegislash, boosting Landorus-T, and a ton of physical with set up moves that you can't hurt otherwise. Leech Seed is useful against teams with Smooth Rock Hippowdon, where Synthesis will often not be enough healing with the pressence of sand and allows you to not get outstalled by Hippowdon.

The utility defensive spiker set is far and away the best, IMO. The unique attributes of bulletproof coupled with his good, physically defensive inclined typing and stats allow him to switch in and set up a few layers of spikes on many pokemon. Spiky shield is a cool trick that wears down spinners, as well. The BU sets are alright, but .... others do it better. While Chesnaught's typing is good for walling a lot of physical attackers, it is not conducive to staying in for long periods of time given his weak special defense, speed, and many other weaknesses. Chesnaught is more of a spiking pivot. I find the subseeding sets to be similarly lacking.

 

[AOPSUser]

set

And...now you miss out on any coverage whatsoever. Meaning no Stone Edge for Talonflame and Crobat, no Seed Bomb as STAB, whatever. Aegislash walls it very hard, Talonflame walls it (lol), and they force you out. Mons that resist Hammer Arm in general aren't hurt by the set and if they have strong special moves or SE STAB it can't use Roar against them.

quote

As a Spiking pivot, it's going to come in, Spikes, and go, and that means a lot of the time it won't have time to use Roar? Sure it can get up a layer of Spikes but if I switch to a Defogger I can force you out while simultaneously threatening your Spikes. If I have a Flying type I don't even care about the Spikes.

Sure you can try to Roar out the predicted Talonflame switch but what if they stay in instead? A lot of teams aren't that weak to Spikes and Roar works well with mostly SR, which requires another mon.

And people do still use Forretress in OU. And Starmie still forces it out.

 

[sims796]

Who cares about coverage? You come in on a poke, and leave the second something comes after you. Yes, that means you switch out rather than try and take on a Pokemon that not only holds your main two weaknesses as STABs, but outspeeds you. You do not bother with coverage. You get a move that works wonders in threatening the pokes that you actually want him to fight, and use moves that accomplishes the task that you want him to accomplish. He is not a sweeper. It is not his job to sweep.

You use Roar when you need too. When you get a set up sweeper that he can tank, and you want them to stop setting up. And that Defog weakness? It effects every single Spiker/Stealth Rocker/Toxic Spiker in the game. They are not partial only to him. If you have a problem with Spikes, so be it, but that is hardly a Chesnaught issue.

 

[AOPSUser]

Who cares about coverage? You come in on a poke, and leave the second something comes after you. Yes, that means you switch out rather than try and take on a Pokemon that not only holds your main two weaknesses as STABs, but outspeeds you. You do not bother with coverage. You get a move that works wonders in threatening the pokes that you actually want him to fight, and use moves that accomplishes the task that you want him to accomplish. He is not a sweeper. It is not his job to sweep.

You use Roar when you need too. When you get a set up sweeper that he can tank, and you want them to stop setting up. And that Defog weakness? It effects every single Spiker/Stealth Rocker/Toxic Spiker in the game. They are not partial only to him. If you have a problem with Spikes, so be it, but that is hardly a Chesnaught issue.

If you switch out right the second that thing comes in, you've had one turn to do something, which is either Spikes, hit for no damage, or Roar if you out-predict the opponent. The Spikes can be erased with Defog and doesn't even affect Talonflame, the most popular switch-in to him.

Also Chesnaught attracts Defoggers because of his typing. Crobat loves switching into him, but maybe not into Tyranitar. Or even Ferrothorn. Defoggers force him out and can easily switch into him for the most part, that is why Defog in particular affects him.

 

[sims796]

Then have something to take out Defoggers. These are the sorts of things that teams will need to manage. If one pokemon cannot handle it, have another. If his flaw is that, despite being able to do a lot, he isn't able to do everything, then that isn't much of a weakness. Have a pokemon to handle his most common switch-in. In fact, it's even been mentioned that he teams up very well with Ttar himself, who handles most of what Chesto is weak too, and vice versa.

Or should we start considering the scenario where Chesto is your last remaining poke?

 

[AOPSUser]

Then have something to take out Defoggers. These are the sorts of things that teams will need to manage. If one pokemon cannot handle it, have another. If his flaw is that, despite being able to do a lot, he isn't able to do everything, then that isn't much of a weakness. Have a pokemon to handle his most common switch-in. In fact, it's even been mentioned that he teams up very well with Ttar himself, who handles most of what Chesto is weak too, and vice versa.

Or should we start considering the scenario where Chesto is your last remaining poke?

If the opposing team has a Defogger and switches it into Chesnaught then you risk having a turn wasted because of Defog. But you also can't stay in on that Crobat or Skarmory either. So the net result in that case is no work done.

If something stays in when you Roar you take damage while having phazed a mon you would have forced out anyways.

Chesnaught isn't just forced out, he's forced out by stuff that can erase all his work with one move. That's not a good position to be in momentum-wise. Sure you can avoid it but you'd have to use Roar on that Crobat every time it comes in, and then you have to predict when it comes in, and that's just quite messy. Or you can hope your opponent has none of Talonflame/Aegislash/Skarmory/Crobat but given their usage that's not a good thing to be hoping.

And then there's Forretress and Starmie, who can just spin away the Spikes and either wall Chesnaught or force him out.

 

[sims796]

If the opposing team has a Defogger and switches it into Chesnaught then you risk having a turn wasted because of Defog. But you also can't stay in on that Crobat or Skarmory either. So the net result in that case is no work done.

If something stays in when you Roar you take damage while having phazed a mon you would have forced out anyways.

Chesnaught isn't just forced out, he's forced out by stuff that can erase all his work with one move. That's not a good position to be in momentum-wise. Sure you can avoid it but you'd have to use Roar on that Crobat every time it comes in, and then you have to predict when it comes in, and that's just quite messy. Or you can hope your opponent has none of Talonflame/Aegislash/Skarmory/Crobat but given their usage that's not a good thing to be hoping.

And then there's Forretress and Starmie, who can just spin away the Spikes and either wall Chesnaught or force him out.

Which, as mentioned, is an issue plagued by every single hazard setter in the game. Rather than hope that an opponent doesn't have your counter, prepare for it. Ferrothorn is forced out by Talonflame/Skarmory/Crobat. He is still used to set up hazards. Are you saying that hazards aren't useful now? You went from speaking about Chesnaught to speaking about hazard setters in general. He does not attract Defoggers simply because he's flying weak; he attracts Defoggers because they are made to erase his work. Pair him up with a mon that is made to handle his counters, like Ttar, who as mentioned, handles pretty much all of those mons. This is the basis of hazard setting; remove or otherwise neutralize hazard removers, and unless you're stating that Defog makes hazards invalid, or that Spikes is somehow terrible (and if you felt that, then no, don't use Chesnaught), then he is no different. Expect your hazards to be removed constantly, as every single team must have a way to handle them, and it is your job to put them back up.

By your logic, Skarmory is a terrible pokemon. It's weak to Fire, Electric, and vulnerable to special attacks in general. It Spikes, which is easy to blow away. Sure, it takes physical attacks, but it's weak to a number of pokemon in OU alone. Because it has weaknesses, it must be borderline unusable. But that isn't the case. You use it when you can. Like Skarmory, you send it out when you are able. You know the opposing team will have a way to handle hazards,it's been that way since hazards first came along.

 

[NotSoClutch]

So Ive read a lot that aegislash beats chesnaught. I find this hilarious since chesnaught beats aegislash about 50% of the time when it runs leech seed and spiky shield. Aegislash needs a steel type move to do anything significant and the increasingly popular shadow ball mixed set is hilariously walled to death. Chesnaught carrying earthquake or seed bomb annihilate aegislash. Chesnaught also has notably decent special bulk and in UU, it will likely be able to run dedicated offense with assault vest to some success. The main reason chesnaught is so effective isn't because it beats different threats than ferrothorn, it's because it counters many of these threats and isn't afraid of being ohkoed by fire

 

[AOPSUser]

Which, as mentioned, is an issue plagued by every single hazard setter in the game. Rather than hope that an opponent doesn't have your counter, prepare for it. Ferrothorn is forced out by Talonflame/Skarmory/Crobat. He is still used to set up hazards. Are you saying that hazards aren't useful now? You went from speaking about Chesnaught to speaking about hazard setters in general. He does not attract Defoggers simply because he's flying weak; he attracts Defoggers because they are made to erase his work. Pair him up with a mon that is made to handle his counters, like Ttar, who as mentioned, handles pretty much all of those mons. This is the basis of hazard setting; remove or otherwise neutralize hazard removers, and unless you're stating that Defog makes hazards invalid, or that Spikes is somehow terrible (and if you felt that, then no, don't use Chesnaught), then he is no different. Expect your hazards to be removed constantly, as every single team must have a way to handle them, and it is your job to put them back up.

By your logic, Skarmory is a terrible pokemon. It's weak to Fire, Electric, and vulnerable to special attacks in general. It Spikes, which is easy to blow away. Sure, it takes physical attacks, but it's weak to a number of pokemon in OU alone. Because it has weaknesses, it must be borderline unusable. But that isn't the case. You use it when you can. Like Skarmory, you send it out when you are able. You know the opposing team will have a way to handle hazards,it's been that way since hazards first came along.

Talonflame doesn't get Defog. Ferrothorn can set up in Skarmory and Crobat's face, although they do get Defog, unless it gets Whirlwinded. Meanwhile Chesnaught does zilch to either of the premier OU defoggers without Stone Edge.

If you switch to TTar while Crobat uses U-Turn that puts you in a bad place. Once the Defogger switches into Chesnaught, they can do whatever they want, while you have to switch.

Skarmory is easily trapped by Gengar/Magnezone. But it gets Defog, one of two currently OU-viable mons to do so. You have to play a lot more carefully with it nowadays. But that's irrelevant to the Chesnaught discussion.

With Chesnaught, it's a bit easier to remove his hazards, simply because the two main Defoggers and two popular Rapid Spinners in OU force him out very easily, and three of those mons can switch into him too. Plus Forretress doesn't have to Spin, it can Volt Switch out of your obvious Aegislash. Crobat can U-Turn out of your obvious Tyranitar. Skarmory doesn't even have to run Defog, it can just set up its own hazards and start doing its own phazing.

If you look below Crobat and Skarmory as Defoggers you have a whole ton of Flying-types come Pokebank, so then it'll be a lot harder to use Chesnaught. Unless you run Stone Edge over Roar or Hammer Arm.

 

[FlameUser64]

Good news for Chesnaught if Mega Gengar remains unbanned: Rumour has it that Pokemon without the blue pentagon on their status screen cannot use Mega Evolution. This, in my eyes, lends further credibility to the theory that the blue pentagon confirms a Pokemon to be native to Kalos. In other words, if these two rumours are indeed correct, Mega Gengar with Sludge Wave does not exist unless mechanics have changed to allow Pokemon to pass tutor/event moves to their own species through breeding. (I would not be entirely surprised if this occurred.)

Quote from: https://twitter.com/Parque_Compi/status/404038104631103489

"Como se rumoreaba hace días; los Pokémon transferidos por el Banco de Pokémon no se podrán utilizar y las megaevoluciones sí."

Google Translate: "As rumored for days, the Bank transferred Pokémon Pokémon can not be used and megaevoluciones other."

Corrected for actual English: "As rumored for days, the Pokémon Bank-transferred Pokémon can not use Mega Evolutions either."

 

[sims796]

I'm glad somebody is posting other than us two, I was afraid that this was as far as the convo goes.

As said, the reason you use is because he doesn't have to Volt Switch out of Aegislash. He doesn't have to U-Turn out of Ttar. He can straight KO them, or better yet, come in ON them and continue his work. What he can do that quite a few other Spikers can is come in on popular things that no other can. He has trouble beating Defog users, so have a mon able to beat a Defogger. Ferro cannot continue it's work as it will get blown away and have his spikes removed. He faces just as much trouble against Defog as the rest of them, so you will need something to beat them no matter what.

That is what is so special about him; he can wipe out a threat with little issue, do his job laying down traps while simultaneously acting as a hard check to a number of pokemon. No hazard user can handle everything, and you do not build a team around him. However, he is able to fill out a certain niche in your team if you need a more offensive Spiker that can handle what he can handle. That part has been emphasised countless times in this thread. If you're using him and you're afraid of Talonflame, he doesn't need to be on your team. If you're using him but are afraid of Skarmory, he doesn't need to be on your team. If you need to have Stone Edge on Chesto because you don't have any other mons capable of stopping Flying types (or Stealth Rock user of your own) then you don't need Chesto. If you have those basis covered, but what a bulky pokemon that can actually net you a few KOs while hard checking other mons, you use Chesto.

 

[sims796]

I would really like to have some opposing opinions other than us two. I'm not saying you're outright wrong, but that the flaws aren't nearly as damning as you make it out to be. I would love more voices on this.