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Pokémon Chesnaught

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Psylink, Oct 15, 2013.

?

What variant of Bulk Up should I do?

  1. Bulk Up

    36.8%
  2. SubBU

    20.0%
  3. Both

    18.4%
  4. Neither (post reasons in a comment)

    24.8%
  1. TheEvergreenChameleon

    TheEvergreenChameleon

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2013
    Messages:
    83
    I wouldn't really say that Chesnaught 'hard counters' either Excadrill or Tentacruel. It can take Tentacruel's attacks, but really can't do much in , doesn't appreciate being poisoned or burned. You'll also find far more Excadrill utilising Iron Head due to the increased popularity of Gourgeist, Trevenant and Togekiss, which presents a 2HKO.

    Depends on what tech Breloom is running. It fares pretty well against the Life Orb set, since it can threaten Breloom out if it switches in on Mach Punch, Bullet Seed, Spore or Rock Tomb, but risks being 2HKOed if it comes in on Swords Dance, whilst CB Techniloom 2HKOs with either Superpower or Power Up Punch. Unless Chesnaught is running Poison Jab or Aerial Ace, it cannot OHKO in return, so it's a decent switch in, but it does take some prediction on your part to utilise effectively.
    Plasma.EXE likes this.
  2. FlameUser64

    FlameUser64

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
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    224
    So I've been thinking, Chesnaught has a lot of coverage moves available to it. I've also noticed, however, that this presents something of a problem as it also really likes to run Spiky Shield, Leech Seed, and/or Synthesis, and it needs a boosting move such as Bulk Up. Is it viable to use Chesnaught as an offensive mon without running Spiky Shield? Something like Bulk Up, Hammer Arm, Seed Bomb, Rock Slide/Stone Edge? Is Feint viable for any reason ever, such as poking opponents whose Focus Sash has triggered before they can do anything else?

    I'm new to competitive battling and to Smogon, so forgive me if I say something too noobish. I just happen to really, REALLY like Chesnaught.
  3. Psylink

    Psylink

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
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    256
    Chesnaught is the type of Pokemon you would use if you need a slow, yet hard hitting, defensive Pokemon. When used as a boosting sweeper, it is outclassed by Conkeldurr if it's slow, and Lucario-M if fast. As an All-Out Attacker, it's outclassed by Breloom. Generally, Chesnaught's great support movepool is too important to fit into a set, or outclassed. This is the best set we have right now:

    Chesnaught @ Leftovers
    Bulletproof
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk (might change based on damage calcs for Excadrill and co)
    Impish Nature
    Spikes
    Leech Seed / Synthesis
    Low Sweep
    Seed Bomb / Taunt

    -----

    Zarel , when will we have a damage calc for X and Y?
  4. FlameUser64

    FlameUser64

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
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    224
    M'kay, fair enough. Low Sweep, though? It's not his hardest hitting move, and he's going to be outspeeding much anyway, right? Is there any point running Reflect on Chesnaught? He already has awesome Defence, so it's not much there, but...
  5. Quaily

    Quaily

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    489
    liquid ooze is also a threat with tentacruel having less reason to run rain dish. I can't see chesnaut fairing well against it in any situation if tentacruel starts carrying a poison move for fairies.

    spiky shield seems very appealing because even if something counters it you can still do some damage to it. if talonflame comes in you can still hit it before switching out, pretty useful if SR is up. SR in general is going to be important since the only types that really wall it badly are almost all rock weak(flying, bug)
  6. Twilightfairy

    Twilightfairy

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    34
    Not sure if done. But i've been running this

    Careful
    Bullet Poof
    252 hp/252 spdef
    Leftovers

    Subsitute
    Leech Seed
    Payback
    WoodHammer/SeedBomb

    It has managed to survive a handful of special attacks, and subsitute protects from status.

    I also ran an admant one before I bred the careful one
    Admant
    252 hp/252 attack

    Assult Vest

    WoodHammer
    Earthquake
    Facade
    Powerup punch

    Not as tanky but it hit like a truck.
  7. Namine

    Namine

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    62
    I came up with this set:

    Nature: Adamant
    Item: Leftovers/Assault Vest/Lum Berry
    Evs: 252 HP / 252 ATK / 4 def
    Moves:
    - Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
    - Hammer Arm/Power-up punch
    - Payback/Shadow Claw/Stone edge
    - Spiky Shield/Bulk Up/ Swords Dance/EarthQuake

    The first and second moves are stab seed bomb for no recoil, wood hammer for more damage, Hammer Arm for raw power and power-up punch to gain attack when attacking low hp foes.
    The third move is for coverage and in in the case of payback/shadow claw provides coverage of at least neutral to everything.
    The fourth slot is for a filler move either for boosting or regaining health with lefties or Extra coverage.

    This set is for attacking weakened foes or weakening foes and not to really sweep.
  8. Psylink

    Psylink

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    256
    To everyone reading this: Stop posting SubSeed sets, they suck in OU, not because of Chesnaught itself, but it's the nerf of Substitute that wrecked it.


    I suppose you're right there, changing it soon.

    Outclassed by Breloom. The only thing Chesnaught can pull off without being outclassed is a defensive set. I need an experienced player's opinion before I post a set like that.

  9. Namine

    Namine

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    62
    I used it in The battle maison and it worked quite well, however you're right by it being outclassed by breloom.
    EDIT: The thing it has over breloom however is it's bulk which breloom sort off lacks.
  10. FlameUser64

    FlameUser64

    Joined:
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    I think using Shadow Claw on Chesnaught makes sense if you're trying to use it as a counter to Mega Gengar. Hitting for NFE damage isn't exactly desirable for a counter. You could also mess up a Dragalge by switching in on a Sludge Bomb and hitting it with Dragon Claw. Doubt your opponent would be expecting that, since no-one uses anything other than defensive utility on Chesnaught.

    Actually, I think Chesnaught as a whole is a Pokémon designed to be used as a counter. He will suffer 4MSS no matter what he does; he cannot cover all his bases. That leaves the question of what you do want him to cover, as that can be any of a number of things thanks to his massive variety of offensive types. That probably depends on what your particular team is weakest against. Whatever physical-based opponent (or Special-based for certain cases like Lucario, Mega Gengar, Dragalge, etc.) you use him to counter, he'll generally be very good at it, as long as you remember that his "viable counters" list doesn't include Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, or Fire-, Psychic-, and Fairy-types in general.
  11. Psylink

    Psylink

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
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    256
    Chesnaught would rather set up Spikes on Gengar while it switches out then do Shadow Claw. Chesnaught doesn't have a lot of room for offensive moves on his main set. Dragalge sucks until Adaptility is released. His teammates will help him with his 4MMS (Heatran works great as a partner for a defensive core once released, except for Fighting, but you can get a Fairy or something for that).

    Chesnaught, in my opinion, is a Defensive Tank with many options, using his amazing support movepool as he needs to alongside his STAB moves.

    I'll post an Assault Vest set, it seems better than it's boosting sets.
  12. Sire

    Sire

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Could Seed Bomb or even Wood Hammer work as an option on the fourth slot of the Utility tank set over Roar/Leech Seed/Stone Edge?
    It's still a second stab and it should hit Starmie and (Mega) Blastoise switching in to spin for quite a bit.
    Would that be a bad idea?
  13. mac1275

    mac1275

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
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    358
    Nope, not at all. I think the more questionable choice is stone edge to be honest. The only reason to use stone edge would be to hit things that would likely OHKO anyway like flying and fire types. You could predict the switch and hit for major damage, but you already have utility to keep things like talonflame at bay by using roar on a predicted switch. I personally think that roar is kind of silly with leech seed, but thats your call and it seems to be getting love from others so maybe it is a good idea.
  14. Jonatas

    Jonatas

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    My Chestnaught is currently this one

    Terriermon
    Item-Sitrus berry
    Adamant 252 Defense/252 S.Defence
    Belly Drum
    Synthesis
    Bullet Seed
    Earthquake

    What you guys think?
  15. papita

    papita

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    87
    That set is dreadful. If you want it to be offensive then give him attack investment. If you want it to be defensive then give it a nature that boost that. And please don´t use it with belly drum. Use Swords Dance and even then you might as well use Breloom. Anyway if Chestnaught doesn´t make it to OU i think it would still be OU viable. It would be less valuable as a Gengar counter once pokebank comes out because of Sludge Wave though.
  16. Psylink

    Psylink

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    256
    Guys, stop posting offensive sets, the only offensive set that has any chance of being viable is maybe the Assault Vest, and I need an experienced player's opinion before I even post one.
  17. zferolie

    zferolie

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
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    Um... they are allowed to post whatever they want man. This is a thread to discuss Chesnaught, and just because you dislike the sets doesn't mean they can't post them :|
  18. Psylink

    Psylink

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    They can post, I just don't agree with their opinion. If someone wants to find it, even though it may be outclassed, they can take the time and effort to do so. This also has to do with the "New users" thread kd24 posted.
  19. sims796

    sims796

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    By all means, disagree with them. Thankfully, I don't really need permission to post things you may not happen to agree with.

    At the same time, offensive sets listed may as well be made for other tiers. General opinion that I see here is that while he is OU viable, he may not be an OU staple. So why not also discuss other, non-OU sets? Will they be viable there?
  20. Fundance

    Fundance

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    305
    Gengar does not get Sludge Wave through gen V move tutor.
  21. zferolie

    zferolie

    Joined:
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    He gets it from Dream World... but I don't think we will be seeing too much of them in link battles, due to it being a pain to get... and correct me if I am wrong, but didn't they stop the dream world service for last gen?
  22. BROloom

    BROloom

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
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    Correct, however he obtained it via the dream world, so his point is perfectly valid.
  23. lmitchell0012

    lmitchell0012 Banned deucer.

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    I wonder if chesnaught gets shell smash...

    Oddly enough, there actually is something in his egg group that gets it. Torkoal has access to this move, so perhaps he can pass it on to chesnaught.
  24. Scoopapa

    Scoopapa
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Physically defensive Spikes is definitely viable in OU, but I think it really has to work a niche with Ferrothorn sporting Spikes and similar (arguably better) typing, but being able to tank on the special side and set SR as well. Should it fall out of OU, I think it will be able to branch out into more bulky offense roles, such as Choice Band or 3 attacks + Synthesis and Adamant. In OU there are just too many powerful pokemon with typings that allow them to take its STAB attacks with ease, making it hard to punish your opponent for allowing it to switch in...unless you are setting up Spikes on them.

    Bulk Up and Swords Dance are just not good ideas. It's too slow for SD and too frail in SpD for Bulk Up. Special Attackers will have an easy time revenge killing, even if they aren't very fast. Also the #1 catch-all revenge killer Talonflame is going to easily destroy you with Flying moves despite any Bulk Up boosts. Your best bet is to be a pivot; switch in, force your opponent to defend, then use attacks, spikes, or Leech Seed while they switch.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  25. Anartya

    Anartya

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    Jun 9, 2011
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    Spikes Ferrothorn is always paired with Stealth Rock Tyranitar, but both have poor synergy as any fighting pokemon can break it (notably Breloom) as well as any pokemon with swords dance and Earthquake, like Excadrill. Mega Venusaur hates Sandstorm as it doesn't have leftovers, Breloom isn't bulky, Amoongus is somewhat bulky but still can't handle Swords Dance excadrill and doesn't really have spikes. Chesnaught however has much better synergy with Tyranitar and has both spikes and roar. It also counters breloom and both counters and checks Excardrill and is able to carry leftovers. Defensive Chesnaught is also more bulky than Defensive M. Venusaur
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013

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