Pokémon Chesnaught (Revamp Occurring)

[Floettes]

IMO, Chesnaught's typing, stats, etc. means that it is outclassed on both the defensive and offensive side for OU. I'm expecting this guy to go UU and fit in comfortably (it checks many sweepers, both physical and special, with its fantastic bulk). Chesnaught's only niche is countering most in game Gengar, provided that they run Sludge Bomb instead of Sludge Wave. Also, in this stage of the metagame, most people run Sludge Bomb instead of Sludge Wave on their Gengar, but in the future, I'm expecting to see more of the latter. It's a gimmicky OU mon, but here are potential sets that can work in both UU (if it gets put there) and OU.

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Bulletproof
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
Spikes
Leech Seed
Spiky Shield/Taunt
Roar

It's a pretty standard physically defensive set, but it's outclassed a majority of the time by Ferrothorn. However, what makes this Chesnaught different from Ferro is its ability to phaze out things that try to switch in on it/shuffle the opponents team. Leech Seed and Spiky Shield provide moderate recovery, passive damage, and scout Choice-locked opponents.

This set is best suited for bulky offense/stall teams. Keep in mind that this set can't take powerful banded physical attacks, such as Adamant Chioce Banded Terrakion's CC and banded Outrages from the likes of Haxorus and Kyurem-B. For that reason, partners like Gliscor and Togekiss are appreciated.

You can run a specially defensive set with the same moves as listed above, but the physically defensive set typically works out better.

 

[Adonzo]

That set is huuuge taunt bait, and having Leech Seed and Roar on the same set makes no sense, since Leech Seed fades when you force them out.

 

[Floettes]

That set is huuuge taunt bait, and having Leech Seed and Roar on the same set makes no sense, since Leech Seed fades when you force them out.

Yeah I know, but that's why you either don't switch in on something with Taunt or play around Taunt users. Plus, I honestly see Taunt in only about 1/20 of the teams I face.

If you want to, use an attacking move over Spiky Shield. All of the other moves are necessities.

 

[farranpoison]

I kinda want to try running an Assault Vest set on Chesnaught, perhaps 252 HP/252Def/4Atk or SpD with Impish Nature?

Basically I want something that can counter MVenusaur (lol Sludge Bomb, meet Bulletproof) and then deal lots of damage to whatever switches in, like Talonflame.

So I'm thinking of running this moveset.

-Seed Bomb
-PUP
-Stone Edge/Rock Slide (screw you talonflame!)
-Earthquake

So decent? Or is it just not worth running Assault Vest? And should I move some Def EVs to Attack?

 

[Floettes]

I kinda want to try running an Assault Vest set on Chesnaught, perhaps 252 HP/252Def/4Atk or SpD with Impish Nature?

Basically I want something that can counter MVenusaur (lol Sludge Bomb, meet Bulletproof) and then deal lots of damage to whatever switches in, like Talonflame.

So I'm thinking of running this moveset.

-Seed Bomb
-PUP
-Stone Edge/Rock Slide (screw you talonflame!)
-Earthquake

So decent? Or is it just not worth running Assault Vest? And should I move some Def EVs to Attack?

It seems a bit gimmicky IMO. It looks like all it does is rarely get a kill, get used as death fodder, or become setup fodder for something like SD Chomp. It could be a nice Talonflame lure w/ SE but Assault Vest doesn't look like it does much on this set. PUP looks to be a waste of a moveslot on this set since it's not like Chesnaught's all that scary at +1 with no attack investment, and PUP is generally a very weak move.

Lack of recovery is also a big downside of this set. Try to use Chesnaught in a role it's good at fulfilling!

 

[farranpoison]

It seems a bit gimmicky IMO. It looks like all it does is rarely get a kill, get used as death fodder, or become setup fodder for something like SD Chomp. It could be a nice Talonflame lure w/ SE but Assault Vest doesn't look like it does much on this set. PUP looks to be a waste of a moveslot on this set since it's not like Chesnaught's all that scary at +1 with no attack investment, and PUP is generally a very weak move.

Lack of recovery is also a big downside of this set. Try to use Chesnaught in a role it's good at fulfilling!

:(

Ah well, it was worth a try.

I do want some way to run Rock Slide/Stone Edge on a set, though. I was looking through the thread, and sets are all over the place, so I have no idea where exactly to start.

 

[NotSoClutch]

IMO, Chesnaught's typing, stats, etc. means that it is outclassed on both the defensive and offensive side for OU. I'm expecting this guy to go UU and fit in comfortably (it checks many sweepers, both physical and special, with its fantastic bulk). Chesnaught's only niche is countering most in game Gengar, provided that they run Sludge Bomb instead of Sludge Wave. Also, in this stage of the metagame, most people run Sludge Bomb instead of Sludge Wave on their Gengar, but in the future, I'm expecting to see more of the latter. It's a gimmicky OU mon, but here are potential sets that can work in both UU (if it gets put there) and OU.

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Bulletproof
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
Spikes
Leech Seed
Spiky Shield/Taunt
Roar

It's a pretty standard physically defensive set, but it's outclassed a majority of the time by Ferrothorn. However, what makes this Chesnaught different from Ferro is its ability to phaze out things that try to switch in on it/shuffle the opponents team. Leech Seed and Spiky Shield provide moderate recovery, passive damage, and scout Choice-locked opponents.

This set is best suited for bulky offense/stall teams. Keep in mind that this set can't take powerful banded physical attacks, such as Adamant Chioce Banded Terrakion's CC and banded Outrages from the likes of Haxorus and Kyurem-B. For that reason, partners like Gliscor and Togekiss are appreciated.

You can run a specially defensive set with the same moves as listed above, but the physically defensive set typically works out better.

If you are going to have a phazer, you don't ever want leech seed. What truly sets Chesnaught apart from the likes of Ferrothorn is that it is actually an offensive threat. Ferrothorn has terrible offensive typing and movepool. Chesnaught on the other hand can use fighting moves to hit opponents hard. If you want to run a roar set, please take out leech seed and add in hammer arm or unslash taunt and spiky shield. Chesnaught is the bulkiest fighting type in the game and if your team is lacking a pivot and is in need of a fighting type, Chesnaught works really well. Any gengar running sludge wave can't use egg moves, so I don't see too much of a reason to switch sludge bomb for sludge wave unless Chesnaught sees significant OU usage or on teams that don't want the opponent to get basic poison status. I do however agree that chesnaught will likely drop to UU, but I will probably be using one on some of my OU teams.

 

[kraken1987]

I didnt see a dedicated SubSplit set on here. With painsplit and woodhammer recoil this dude is pretty good

Chesnaught Life orb
Adamant
EVs: 252 Att, 252 Def, 4 SpDef

Moves:
Substitute
wood hammer
Earthquake/shadow claw
pain split


the point of the set is to cause a switch set up a sub and start firing off life orb boosted wood hammers and hurting yourself. With no hp investments pain split can act as a pretty reliable form of recovery. When deciding between EQ or shadow claw its really whatever your team needs but shadow claw hits gengar and does neutral damage to skarmory forretress and ferrothorn
I guess you could also run a fighting move in this slot if you saw fit. Also a defensive nature could be used as well as a specially defensive ev spread. Overall this set aims to tank hits and deal decent damage.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

As the previous person mentioned laying down spikes. Also Roar is essential so Breloom can't set up Swords Dance or Substitute on you! It can't use spore on you since you are a grass type. But let me run some calculations to show you:

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 87-105 (22.89 - 27.63%) -- possible 5HKO

In the worst cases:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught : 175-208 (46.05 - 54.73%) -- 8.98% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Breloom Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 169-199 (44.47 - 52.36%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 138-163 (52.67 - 62.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Problem is that no longer is the worst case scenario if you're facing Breloom. This is:

252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Chesnaught: 247-292 (65 - 76.8%)

Breloom's vulnerability to Talonflame means you will rarely find it running a dancing set any more. I've been finding that a lot of players have been opting out of Spore due to how common the new grass types have been, and a Band + Adamant allows Breloom to take out Pokemon such as Trevenant that would otherwise have free switch ins against it, whilst Superpower allows it to take down Pokemon it could not handle without Spore (such as Skarmory). I personally run a Banded Breloom, and it's thus far proven a lot more effective than the Scarfed and Orbed variants I've played around with, since it has the advantage of really hurting Brelooms current common switch ins - a list which includes Chesnaught.

 

[Anartya]

Problem is that no longer is the worst case scenario if you're facing Breloom. This is:

252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Chesnaught: 247-292 (65 - 76.8%)

Breloom's vulnerability to Talonflame means you will rarely find it running a dancing set any more. I've been finding that a lot of players have been opting out of Spore due to how common the new grass types have been, and a Band + Adamant allows Breloom to take out Pokemon such as Trevenant that would otherwise have free switch ins against it, whilst Superpower allows it to take down Pokemon it could not handle without Spore (such as Skarmory). I personally run a Banded Breloom, and it's thus far proven a lot more effective than the Scarfed and Orbed variants I've played around with, since it has the advantage of really hurting Brelooms current common switch ins - a list which includes Chesnaught.

Why are you using 252 HP / 0+ Def Chesnaught? That isn't even common nor standard!

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/completed-chesnaught.3490573/

This is the correct calculation:

252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 204-240 (53.6 - 63.1%)

Then you have atk and def drop due to superpower:
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 135-160 (35.5 - 42.1%)

Add 6% due to Leftovers and at most:
63.1% + 42.1% - 6% = 99.2% Fails to 2HKO, while Chesnaught can just use synthesis.

 

[NotSoClutch]

^and spiky shield for chip damage and extra leftovers

 

[Nikolizzle]

How about this, then:

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Bulletproof
Impish, 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Atk

Spikes
Spiky Shield
Synthesis
Hammer Arm

 

[deathgaze]

Would a variation with wood hammer and synthesis work?

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

Why are you using 252 HP / 0+ Def Chesnaught? That isn't even common nor standard!

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/completed-chesnaught.3490573/

This is the correct calculation:

252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 204-240 (53.6 - 63.1%)

Then you have atk and def drop due to superpower:
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 135-160 (35.5 - 42.1%)

Add 6% due to Leftovers and at most:
63.1% + 42.1% - 6% = 99.2% Fails to 2HKO, while Chesnaught can just use synthesis.

What you're essentially saying is that if there is no rain, hail or sand (which either provide the extra damage or nerf Synthesis) and no entry hazards of any kind, and Chesnaught is at full health, it is able to force Breloom to switch out once, whilst providing your opponent the opportunity to switch anything he wants in for free. Or, alternatively, it can KO Breloom and be left within revenge range of just about any Pokemon currently running around in OU, all of whom will be faster thanks to Hammer Arm's speed dropping properties.

If Chesnaught is the best you have to bring in against Breloom, you have problems.

 

[NotSoClutch]

What you're essentially saying is that if there is no rain, hail or sand (which either provide the extra damage or nerf Synthesis) and no entry hazards of any kind, and Chesnaught is at full health, it is able to force Breloom to switch out once, whilst providing your opponent the opportunity to switch anything he wants in for free. Or, alternatively, it can KO Breloom and be left within revenge range of just about any Pokemon currently running around in OU, all of whom will be faster thanks to Hammer Arm's speed dropping properties.

If Chesnaught is the best you have to bring in against Breloom, you have problems.

If your opponent is using banded breloom, an unpopular set i might add, and goes for the superpower, chesnaught can use synthesis regardless of breloom does to heal. Even if there is chip damage, chesnaught will survive and gain health since breloom will be doig less and less each time if breloom decides to switch, chesnaught has successfully shaken off a hit without a scratch in normal conditions and about 80% heapth in sandstorm. To me, that is a success. And, if a breloom thinks it can stay in and ko which it cannot, synthesis can be used until breloom is doing almost nothing to the opposing chesnaught while putting itself in the position to be ohkoed. While not a breloom counter, I would say that is a nice check on teams that cant afford toassume a banded shroom.

 

[Anartya]

What you're essentially saying is that if there is no rain, hail or sand (which either provide the extra damage or nerf Synthesis) and no entry hazards of any kind, and Chesnaught is at full health, it is able to force Breloom to switch out once, whilst providing your opponent the opportunity to switch anything he wants in for free. Or, alternatively, it can KO Breloom and be left within revenge range of just about any Pokemon currently running around in OU, all of whom will be faster thanks to Hammer Arm's speed dropping properties.

If Chesnaught is the best you have to bring in against Breloom, you have problems.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gp-ready-0-2-breloom.3490810/

That is 90% of the Breloom's you will find, all walled to death by Chesnaught. I replied to correct your calculation, nothing more.
If you are putting Chesnaught in your team for the sole purpose of countering Breloom, then you doing something wrong here. Chesnaught is a spiker and a defensive pivot, but can also act a very good phazer. It just turns out that it can wall breloom, despite having no fighting resistance, unlike Ferrothorn. If you want a Breloom counter, then you should be looking to Gliscor, which laughs at your gimicky choice band set. Plus Superpower is only available after pokebank.

 

[Floettes]

Seems that this guy can only run a dedicated defensive/utility set to function in OU. Banded/offensive/boosting sets are highly outclassed by other OU Pokes. From my viewpoint, any set with an attacking move is probably gimmicky at best in the current OU metagame. Stick with Roar, Synthesis, Spikes, Taunt, Spiky Shield, etc.

 

[sims796]

Seems that this guy can only run a dedicated defensive/utility set to function in OU. Banded/offensive/boosting sets are highly outclassed by other OU Pokes. From my viewpoint, any set with an attacking move is probably gimmicky at best in the current OU metagame. Stick with Roar, Synthesis, Spikes, Taunt, Spiky Shield, etc.

I somewhat disagree. While you are absolutely right to say that he must be a supporter to be used in OU, he can afford at least one attack. That's what sets him apart from other tanky supporters. You want something to punish certain pokes, otherwise he's not doing his full job.

 

[Otter Power]

Could I possibly run a Chesnaught set without spikes? I'm thinking Leech seed+Spiky Shield, and two offensive moves. What should I use for the last two moves, and what item should I give him? (Preferably not leftovers, I'm using it on someone else already...)

 

[RabidChipmunk]

Seems that this guy can only run a dedicated defensive/utility set to function in OU. Banded/offensive/boosting sets are highly outclassed by other OU Pokes. From my viewpoint, any set with an attacking move is probably gimmicky at best in the current OU metagame. Stick with Roar, Synthesis, Spikes, Taunt, Spiky Shield, etc.

I literally cannot think of a single Pokemon who shouldn't run offensive moves. Being able to wield a decently powerful Hammer Arm is the only thing that makes Chesnaught a counter to things like Excadrill and Tyranitar and not just a somewhat annoying roadblock. Carrying no attacking moves removes Chesnaught's ability as a counter and makes him complete and utter Taunt-bait, as it does to any defensive Pokemon (hell, even Chansey runs Seismic Toss). So, carrying an attacking move, preferably Hammer Arm.

 

[AOPSUser]

I literally cannot think of a single Pokemon who shouldn't run offensive moves. Being able to wield a decently powerful Hammer Arm is the only thing that makes Chesnaught a counter to things like Excadrill and Tyranitar and not just a somewhat annoying roadblock. Carrying no attacking moves removes Chesnaught's ability as a counter and makes him complete and utter Taunt-bait, as it does to any defensive Pokemon (hell, even Chansey runs Seismic Toss). So, carrying an attacking move, preferably Hammer Arm.

Shuckle, for one. Also Dusclops possibly. And some more.

Note that these are all lower-tiered mons.

Trying to use Chesnaught in OU is currently very hard with all the Aegislash and Talonflame, not to mention Dazzling Gleam Mega Gengar, running around. Yes, you can make it work in OU, but there's a reason that you don't see that many of them. Not to mention that a lot of specially offensive mons can and will force him out (Greninja (ironic right), Noivern, Starmie, etc.). Sure it's a good Spiker but so are Ferrothorn and Klefki. Also Grass isn't that good of a defensive typing and neither is Fighting--Grass is weak to the omnipresent Fire and Flying, Fighting to Fairy and Flying.

Now, in lower tiers, Chesnaught would be really interesting. UU may not even be the place for it thanks to Houndoom, Victini, Chandelure, and Darmanitan running around at once (seriously, Gen 5 UU was really borked). Not to mention all the Ghosts, like Chandelure, Mismagius, Dusclops (why????). Unless everything falls at once (lol@Victini in RU), Chesnaught just isn't going to be good in OU or even UU due to his typing.

 

[sims796]

His typing has been discussed throughout the thread. Grass/Fighting is an interesting defensive combination. For one, to my knowledge, Grass has always been considered as a decent defensive typing. Fire and (lol) Flying aren't as common as one would think - Fire, maybe, but Flying? Not to mention most Fire moves are special, in which he has no place trying to counter. He is able to come in and hard counter quite a few things, while simultaneously setting up Spikes. Even in lower tiers, where I think he'll end up, a handful of Fire types will not be enough to stop him. All that you are saying is that there are some pokes that a physically defensive tank cannot stop, mainly, special mons.

He's a good spiker specifically because he does things that Ferro and Klefki cannot; he can set up Spikes, absolutely threaten certain pokes into allowing a free chance to lay down Spikes, and heal himself, all at once. Hell, he can even phaze! And Taunt!

His main issue is that yes, Ferrothorn and other options are a hell of a lot safer, and that, at least in OU, he's far too specific in what he can handle. However, he handles what he can handle very well.

 

[Floettes]

I literally cannot think of a single Pokemon who shouldn't run offensive moves. Being able to wield a decently powerful Hammer Arm is the only thing that makes Chesnaught a counter to things like Excadrill and Tyranitar and not just a somewhat annoying roadblock. Carrying no attacking moves removes Chesnaught's ability as a counter and makes him complete and utter Taunt-bait, as it does to any defensive Pokemon (hell, even Chansey runs Seismic Toss). So, carrying an attacking move, preferably Hammer Arm.

1. Most viable Taunters in OU (Skarmory, Terrakion, etc.) already threaten Chesnaught out, so there's no way it would even be staying in on those guys.

2. Because of Roar and Synthesis, there really is no reason for Chesnaught to run any attacking moves. Chesnaught's primary roles are to take hits, phaze the enemy, get up hazards, and scout choice locked users.

3. Should Chesnaught use an attacking move, its role would be outclassed by other things like Ferrothorn. All 4 moveslots should be dedicated to support moves.

4. 99.99% of the time, Excadrill/Tyranitar won't be staying in on Chesnaught so you're better off getting up a layer of Spikes on the switch than Hammer Arming whatever your opponent decides to go into.

You're not wrong or anything, these are just my opinions. :]

 

[Anartya]

1. Most viable Taunters in OU (Skarmory, Terrakion, etc.) already threaten Chesnaught out, so there's no way it would even be staying in on those guys.

I agree to Skarmory, but not Terrakion:
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 184-217 (48.4 - 57.1%)

The most extreme case:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 317-374 (83.4 - 98.4%)

0 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 372-440 (114.8 - 135.8%)

Hammer Arm is all you really need. Wood Hammer/Seed Bomb/Stone Edge are all not viable given what Chesnaught will be walling/countering.

 

[sims796]

The reason why Excadrill and Ttar won't stay in is because he has a move to threaten them out. That is why they aren't afraid of Ferrothorn. Or aren't as afraid, as the case may be. I'm not sure how his role is taken over by Ferro, considering

1. His attack is higher
2. His STAB has far superior coverage
3. He can carry a move for self defense and Spike and Phase
4. He has an actual recovery move if you decide to opt out of any of the above options

All things that Ferro lacks.