Pokémon Chesnaught (Revamp Occurring)

[Ajwf]

Use EQ on Chesnaught for Aegi. Works better, less situational... A bit redundant but heatran switches get hit as well.

 

[pitties]

Why is SubBU and BU options in the poll when those sets aren't even described in the OP? Anyways, if I had to choose, I would say chesnaught has no business running bulkup and should just stick to physical walling sets.

Oh and another cool little set I tried: CB chesnaught.

Chesnaught @ Choice Band
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Stone Edge
- Hammer Arm
- Earthquake

It hits like a truck and completely walls common pokemon like tyranitar and scizor. Even choice banded bullet punch does only 38% to 0 def chesnaught. On the other hand chesnaught does massive damage to traditional switchins:

252+ Atk Choice Band Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 135-160 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 163-193 (38.4 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 169-200 (55.9 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 183-216 (51.6 - 61%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 153-181 (50.6 - 59.9%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 205-243 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Anyways, long story short, CB chesnaught catches common switchins offguard with massive damage usually doing a clean 50%. Also, mandibuzz and skarm cannot use roost, but chesnaught has to watch out for the brave bird.

Also, chesnaught could run 52 speedevs to outspeed uninvested base 70s like bisharp, and breloom, while also outspeeding scizor. Additionally, it could run 108 speed to outspeed defensive heatran.

 

[totoTavros]

For Latios/Gliscor/Latias, couldn't they just let you kill yourself on your own?
Latios needs to roost 8 times, Gliscor can just sub+protect, you'd need to kill 14 subs, and Latias needs to roost 6 times. I mean, you might crit, but as that only happens once

 

[pitties]

this is on the switch and what latios would spam roost instead of using psyshock? I would just go into a ttar or bisharp to deal with it. the point of CB chesnaught is to just weaken things to clean up later.

 

[Palpitoad the Blue]

What about this:

Chesnaught@Leftovers
EVs: 252 Def, 252 HP, 4 Atk
Nature: Adamant
Moves:
Seed Bomb
Hammer Arm
Spiky Sheild
Pain Split

Now this Physical defensive Chesnaught can easily take a hit or two and then recover using Pain Split. Thats the thought anyways. I have used this to take Outrage from a Garchomp and Spiky Sheild works quite well for that, damaging the Garchomp as it attacks. And the Chesnaught should be able to do some damage too thanks to its nature.

 

[13ulbasaur]

What about this:

Chesnaught@Leftovers
EVs: 252 Def, 252 HP, 4 Atk
Nature: Adamant
Moves:
Seed Bomb
Hammer Arm
Spiky Sheild
Pain Split

Now this Physical defensive Chesnaught can easily take a hit or two and then recover using Pain Split. Thats the thought anyways. I have used this to take Outrage from a Garchomp and Spiky Sheild works quite well for that, damaging the Garchomp as it attacks. And the Chesnaught should be able to do some damage too thanks to its nature.

Is pain split really worth it to get the enemy Pokemon low-ish over a more reliable recovery like synthesis or leech seed? Chesnaught hits hard either way.

 

[sims796]

I've been using a Subseed set. It can't beat or even harm any single defogger, it doesn't have the speed or capability to go an offensive route, and Subseed, when I can get a sub up that the opponent can't break in one shot (lol Aegislash,) allows Chesnaught to beat stuff it really has no business beating. It also makes Mega Tyranitar and Mega Gyarodos easier to handle, because they can both have Ice coverage, but once you get seeds up and have enough health to get a sub up they're done.

Again, I really have to give it up to the Subseed set, it's truly amazing. When it gains momentum, it will fuck over the enemy team, even if it doesn't actually take out a mon.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-131681772

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-131564073

Two rather hilarious examples, though admititley not the best, as my opponents made ludicrously bad moves in response, but it still kicked ass.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Again, I really have to give it up to the Subseed set, it's truly amazing. When it gains momentum, it will fuck over the enemy team, even if it doesn't actually take out a mon.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-131681772

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-131564073

Two rather hilarious examples, though admititley not the best, as my opponents made ludicrously bad moves in response, but it still kicked ass.

Yeah Sub is pretty good, and people should use it more. But, after reading this ridiculously long but also really good post by Ajwf, I don't think Sub and Shield are good on the same set. Chesnaught has a really expansive offensive movepool, so instead of just stalling stuff out, you can hit them.

Coverage and the Substitute

Chesnaught has access to multiple coverage attacks. For this section, we'll also be considering his second stab, Grass, coverage due to the lack of help grass actually provides. The only real note I'll give grass it the ability to solve Quagsire, Keldeo and Azumarill much harder, but only works on switches or if they lock wrong for the latter two. With Earthquake, Stone Edge/Rock Slide, Shadow Claw, Dragon Claw, Wood Hammer/Seed Bomb, Poison Jab, Gyro Ball and Payback, Chesnaught has a great deal of coverage. But what should we use to help out with fight?

My personal preference is Earthquake. This means that any Aegi short of Balloon is crushed instantly and can't sub-toxic. This also helps hit grounded electrics like Raikou and Manectric on switches as well as SE hits on grounded poisons (tentacruel, Venusaur, and Nidos coming in or locked into bad moves). You do completely lose Lati@s, Gyarados, Dragonite and Landorus.

Stone Edge/Rock Slide are other good options, voiding the loss of Dragonite and Gyarados, and allowing Chesnaught behind a sub to beat Talonflame and Pinsir-mega, which is very cool. It's a much more offensive option, not offering as much for a defensive pivot but works very well with a sub set. You do have to stall out Aegi with leech seed, though.

Shadow Claw is a pretty decent option. While you have to worry about Aegislash's King Shield, you can hit Aegi, Gengar, Alakazam, Lati@s, Espeon hard, all of which can provide Chesnaught hard. This set MUST have a substitute as most of these will have Psychic. For Alakazam, Espeon and Latios, it will take two hits to kill them. However, Latios needs draco meteor to have a chance to KO (it won't have psychic). Psyshock is only a 2hko. Alakazam sporting Psyshock over Psychic will lose as he can only just deal over 50% with Psyshock. The best part is a sub will scout this for you.

The last attack worthy of real note is Poison Jab. Allowing you to hit everything in OU outside of Landorus, Aegislash and Gliscor for neutral damage when paired with hammer arm, Poison jab is a fantastic coverage move. It shouldn't be used with substitute as the set does kind of want to take Sylveon on as it switches in, and you'd be sacrificing Hit Points at that point.

 

[sims796]

That...is a very, very informative post.

I don't necessarily agree that Spiky Shield and Sub are a bad combination, I will agree that it's a disservice to ignore his plethora of offensive moves. Hell, one problem I've had is that with SS/Sub is that he's not to difficult to stall out.

EDIT: And this was the first match

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-131564073

Ok, I'll admit, Offensive Move/Hammer Arm/Substitute's awesome.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-131697478

 

[silversurfer718]

Sorry for the necro, but it's gotta be said.

Drain Punch AND Thunderpunch by move tutor in ORAS.

I cannot wait.

 

[Ajwf]

I've been running an offensive Chesnaught recently:

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Hammer Arm
- Taunt
- Shadow Claw

This is a hilariously good set... It outspeeds Jolly azumarill+ 1 ev to speed creep 44 speed rotom and anything else concerned with jolly azumarilly. The attack is enough to OHKO bulky (96 HP) azumarill and 56% chance to ohko full bulk azumarill. With the HP investment, it still serves to counter everything it originally did. The only thing you miss is recovery in form of leech seed/synthesis, but this is a balance team set, not a stall set... But drain punch does make me excited for fixing recovery issues... it seriously might be enough to push it up another rank in viability and possibly make it a renown premier OU wall.

Chesnaught really has gotten better since Aegi got banned because of the redundant EQ/Hammer arm coverage issue. Now, there's basically no reason to run EQ. The moveset options Chesnaught has is hilarious still, but taunt has proven pretty useful. Chesnaught being a great counter to landorus-t makes you get U-turned on a lot, leading to Heatran/mew/annoying Support mons coming in trying to wisp your team. With taunt, you stop that pretty quickly. Spike skarmory, who generally thinks Chesnaught is free set-up fodder, is reduced to BB spamming the next turn on an easy switch-in to a hazard-clearer or simply something to clear Skarm out (I use manectric-mega so it's absolutely perfect). Shadow Claw is a good way to take 60% of latios' hp on an otherwise easy switch. The only thing I really think Chesnaught could use (other than the Drain punch he gets) is fire punch, because Scizor-mega walls the living hell out of non-seed chesnaught.

 

[silversurfer718]

I run a very similar set, although I run Stone Edge over Shadow Claw to hit birdspam and flying dragons on the switch. (That will get replace with thunder punch)

I agree, Drain Punch was THE #1 move I hoped for an am so happy it got it. Besides spore and status blocking, there is no reason to use defensive Breloom over this thing. Now that it doesn't worry about speed drop, it can even challenge Azumarill if it gets a hit in on the switch without needing the recoil/crap coverage of Wood Hammer.

 

[Force Majeure]

I can see Leech Seed/Drain Punch/SS and leftovers recovery being very annoying on stallier teams. I LOVE IT!

I like it as well, but Drain Punch has relatively low BP compared to Hammer Arm. One of the things I like about C-Naught is its ability to retaliate against junk with high BP moves like H-Arm and Wood Hammer. Drain Punch may put Chesnaught dangerously close to the "too passive" trap ala Chansey and my bottom bitch Alo.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

I like it as well, but Drain Punch has relatively low BP compared to Hammer Arm. One of the things I like about C-Naught is its ability to retaliate against junk with high BP moves like H-Arm and Wood Hammer. Drain Punch may put Chesnaught dangerously close to the "too passive" trap ala Chansey and my bottom bitch Alo.

Hammer Arm isn't particularly powerful in the first place, and it comes with that chance to miss (and it lowers your speed, not that important with 60ish base speed but it's something.) Drain Punch's passive healing is very valuable, I doubt most sets would be better off running Hammer Arm.

 

[Pyritie]

I like it as well, but Drain Punch has relatively low BP compared to Hammer Arm. One of the things I like about C-Naught is its ability to retaliate against junk with high BP moves like H-Arm and Wood Hammer. Drain Punch may put Chesnaught dangerously close to the "too passive" trap ala Chansey and my bottom bitch Alo.

Doesn't it also get superpower?

 

[Talpr0ne]

Doesn't it also get superpower?

It does get Superpower, but it is a TERRIBLE move on it because it lowers attack and defense, compromising BOTH its ability to wall and that of retaliating back.

Drain Punch's low base power compared to Hammer Arm doesn't even hurt that much considering that almost all of the stuff that Chesnaught walls are weak to Fighting.

 

[Ajwf]

...With the exception of Breloom, Landorus-t, Non-Hp Fly Keldeo and non-Wisp gengar *this changes with the GameStop promotion event giving a shiny gengar sludge wave, but at least you have a way to know if it might have it*

 

[Talpr0ne]

...With the exception of Breloom, Landorus-t, Non-Hp Fly Keldeo and non-Wisp gengar *this changes with the GameStop promotion event giving a shiny gengar sludge wave, but at least you have a way to know if it might have it*

Hammer Arm doesn't do jack shit to Landorus and Gengar either, and Breloom will never be able to hurt Chesnaught(Mach Punch is only a 6HKO at best after Stealth Rocks, while Bullet Seed is blocked by Bulletproof), so the added damage doesn't exactly help. And against Keldeo you are going to use a grass move anyway if you carry one.

Gengar btw already got Sludge Wave in GenV Global Link event, which wasn't even always shiny, plus how do you even recognize a shiny Gengar by first sight lol

 

[Ajwf]

Hammer Arm doesn't do jack shit to Landorus and Gengar either, and Breloom will never be able to hurt Chesnaught(Mach Punch is only a 6HKO at best after Stealth Rocks, while Bullet Seed is blocked by Bulletproof), so the added damage doesn't exactly help. And against Keldeo you are going to use a grass move anyway if you carry one.

Gengar btw already got Sludge Wave in GenV Global Link event, which wasn't even always shiny, plus how do you even recognize a shiny Gengar by first sight lol

No, I really wasn't trying to make a point, just showing that chesnaught does take on other stuff than dark/rock/Steels/normals.

Gengar CAN have sludge wave otherwise, however it restricts it with a bunch of moves... I forget what he loses but I believe will-o-wisp or pain split was one of the huge ones. As for staying in on gengar, depends on the chesnaught set+support around him. I personally don't mind... wisp is taken care of by heal bell and even then I run shadow claw. I also have taunt, so if they do that sub wisp garbage (which starts with sub, most importantly, since even wood hammer does 45% to gengar), I can avoid wisps or just bell it later.

 

[Karxrida]

No, I really wasn't trying to make a point, just showing that chesnaught does take on other stuff than dark/rock/Steels/normals.

Gengar CAN have sludge wave otherwise, however it restricts it with a bunch of moves... I forget what he loses but I believe will-o-wisp or pain split was one of the huge ones. As for staying in on gengar, depends on the chesnaught set+support around him. I personally don't mind... wisp is taken care of by heal bell and even then I run shadow claw. I also have taunt, so if they do that sub wisp garbage (which starts with sub, most importantly, since even wood hammer does 45% to gengar), I can avoid wisps or just bell it later.

Will-O is a TM move for Gengar, and any Gengar running Sludge Wave is probably running a 3-Attacks LO set with Taunt or D-Bond so it doesn't need Tutor Moves anyway.

 

[Kejmur]

Anyone tried AV Chesnaught now when it has Drain Punch ? With it it may act as mixed tank with the ability to check for example Aegislash (as I think it will end up retested in ORAS metagame), Keldeo, Rotom-W, Raikou, Mega Manectric, some Grass types, Mega Sceptile, Mega Ampharos. etc. while still keep in check standard physical attackers like Tyranitar, Bisharp, Landorus-T or Gyarados. I need to check some calculations (Max HP/Max Atk sounds as most reasonable option with Drain Punch/Wood Hammer or Seed Bomb/Earthquake/Dragon Claw move choices and Atk EVs to power up healing from Drain Punch), but in theory it doesn't sound as bad for stall/balanced teams to form some FWG cores. Any thoughts or suggestions to potentially change something here ? As I consider to test it out, but no idea it EVs spread is truly ideal here.

 

[Voltage]

Anyone tried AV Chesnaught now when it has Drain Punch ? With it it may act as mixed tank with the ability to check for example Aegislash (as I think it will end up retested in ORAS metagame), Keldeo, Rotom-W, Raikou, Mega Manectric, some Grass types, Mega Sceptile, Mega Ampharos. etc. while still keep in check standard physical attackers like Tyranitar, Bisharp, Landorus-T or Gyarados. I need to check some calculations (Max HP/Max Atk sounds as most reasonable option with Drain Punch/Wood Hammer or Seed Bomb/Earthquake/Dragon Claw move choices and Atk EVs to power up healing from Drain Punch), but in theory it doesn't sound as bad for stall/balanced teams to form some FWG cores. Any thoughts or suggestions to potentially change something here ? As I consider to test it out, but no idea it EVs spread is truly ideal here.

While I can't deny this is a good thought, I can't see it really gaining any traction. Ches really appreciates the passive recovery of Leech Seed and, occasionally, the passive damage of Spiky Shield. Drain Punch only works against so many different threats, and when any flying type comes in, you'll have do immediate switches, giving your opponent a free switch. It seems really counter intuitive to lose to birds every single time in my mind. Of course, I'll definitely try out AV Ches, I just can't see it working all that well.

 

[Salemance]

Omg I am in love with that three attacks taunt set. Its damn fun being able to have such a fun defensive/offensive grass type like him CD

Again it is very fun. Had it paired with a team that used Mega Pidgeot (still work in progress it is) and it was funny seeing it do everything from cockblocking Ferro and denying a Mega Slowbro from setting up/resting (which it could do before but drain punch just makes it more fun than hammer arm).

 

[shilly]

how much attack investment should i run on my impish drain punch naught? i thought about running 252 hp/8 atk/248 def, but i wonder if that little atk evs would make drain punch a bit too passively damaging?

 

[Yamborski]

Can someone explain to me why all of a sudden Chesnaught is seeing usage? I mean don't get me wrong it's good... and has always been good but all it seems to have gained is Drain Punch which is nice but is it really ground breaking? Almost all of the new megas seem to match up favorably against Chesnaught so its not like it has much of a niche countering many of them.

Is there some new team setup or EV spread involving Chesnaught that I missed? I get that it's a great Pokemon but why are people talking about it now.