Chesnaught has 4MSS... it's going to want Leech Seed, Spikes, Synthesis, at least one (if not both) of its STABs, and Spiky Shield all on the same set, and giving one up for another opens up some hole in its armor that leave it either outclassed or unable to do its job at its best.
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Pokémon Chesnaught (Revamp Occurring)
- Thread starter Psylink
- Start date
- Status
Gyarados can bounce, although I guess you could switch out of that. I completely agree though that Chesnaught and ferrothorn aren't to be so harshly compared. As long as his different talents are recognized he should have a great spot in ou
I've had some success with a Power Up Punch Assault vest Set
Chesnaught @Assault Vest
Adamant
•Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
•Power Up Punch
•Earthquake
•Stone Edge/Poison Jab
Gives him some extra bulk on the special side, with no investment in special deffense it essentially gets a base stat of roughly 110.
Power up Punch gives him some useful boosting while still working under the effects of Assault Vest.
I chose Seed Bomb for longevity since he loses any form of self recovery. So if you ran Wood Hammer for the power you could use a Wish Passer to compensate.
Chesnaught @Assault Vest
Adamant
•Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
•Power Up Punch
•Earthquake
•Stone Edge/Poison Jab
Gives him some extra bulk on the special side, with no investment in special deffense it essentially gets a base stat of roughly 110.
Power up Punch gives him some useful boosting while still working under the effects of Assault Vest.
I chose Seed Bomb for longevity since he loses any form of self recovery. So if you ran Wood Hammer for the power you could use a Wish Passer to compensate.
I've found a set of:
Chesnaught Leftovers
Impish
Spikes
Spiky Shield
Leech Seed
Seed Bomb/Hammer Arm
Works fantastically as an indirect damager. You can set up Leech Seed on the switch, take a hit with Spiny Shield and switch out to a counter, leaving Chesnaught unharmed and the opponent weakened quite significantly. This is only made more apparent if you get a couple of turns in which you can set up Spikes. Chesnaught isn't really going to be outspeeding much, which would make Hammer Arm a very powerful Fighting move to round out the set, but Seed Bomb can treat you better against ghosts. Chesnaught can switch in and out pretty happily with that monsterous Defense stat and rather potent recovery, and supports his team like an absolute champ.
Chesnaught Leftovers
Impish
Spikes
Spiky Shield
Leech Seed
Seed Bomb/Hammer Arm
Works fantastically as an indirect damager. You can set up Leech Seed on the switch, take a hit with Spiny Shield and switch out to a counter, leaving Chesnaught unharmed and the opponent weakened quite significantly. This is only made more apparent if you get a couple of turns in which you can set up Spikes. Chesnaught isn't really going to be outspeeding much, which would make Hammer Arm a very powerful Fighting move to round out the set, but Seed Bomb can treat you better against ghosts. Chesnaught can switch in and out pretty happily with that monsterous Defense stat and rather potent recovery, and supports his team like an absolute champ.
He can just spiky shield bounce.
Would this set be any good? The point is to take special attacks as well, with only the nature being used for defense boost.
Impish nature
Bulletproof
Holding: Assault vest
252 Sdef, 252 HP
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Power-up punch
Seed Bomb
I am also thinking of using this set. The idea of a bulk up, seeder sounds amazing actually.
Calm nature
Bulletproof
Holding: Leftovers
252 Sdef, 252 HP
Synthesis / Spiny Shield
Bulk Up
Leech Seed
Hammer Arm.
The idea is to come in late game after your opponents special sweeper is dead. Then this comes in on a physical attacker, and get off just 1 bulk up. Then leech seed. My EVs + nature is just there as insurance, turning certain OKOS into 2 hits, or 2 KOs into 3 KOs from special attacks. Its defense will be boosted by bulk up already.
Against other grass types, it will just be spamming hammer arm I guess. I actually think pairing this guy up with a dedicated special wall would be great, maybe Ttar with Assault vest
Impish nature
Bulletproof
Holding: Assault vest
252 Sdef, 252 HP
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Power-up punch
Seed Bomb
I am also thinking of using this set. The idea of a bulk up, seeder sounds amazing actually.
Calm nature
Bulletproof
Holding: Leftovers
252 Sdef, 252 HP
Synthesis / Spiny Shield
Bulk Up
Leech Seed
Hammer Arm.
The idea is to come in late game after your opponents special sweeper is dead. Then this comes in on a physical attacker, and get off just 1 bulk up. Then leech seed. My EVs + nature is just there as insurance, turning certain OKOS into 2 hits, or 2 KOs into 3 KOs from special attacks. Its defense will be boosted by bulk up already.
Against other grass types, it will just be spamming hammer arm I guess. I actually think pairing this guy up with a dedicated special wall would be great, maybe Ttar with Assault vest
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So I have been playing some gen 6 on showdown and have come to the conclusion that chesnaught is grossly underrated by some. It has easily been the best aegislash check in party and takes most physical hits like a champ. It forces a number of switches which it can take advantage of by using leech seed and its stabs seem to hit a lot of pokemon for major damage. spikey shield is wonderful addition to its movepool as well as aerial ace for my teams that struggle with breloom and other chesnaughts. Bullet prroof was a huge blessing as it allows chesnaught to switch in on a lot of would be threats like gengar and specs dragalgae. All in all, chesnaught fits really well on a lot of my teams and only ever fears flying types and special attackers which are both easily nuetered with stealth rocks and a special wall respectively.
Here is another interesting set I thought of:
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Roar
- Synthesis
- Hammer Arm/Stone Edge/Seed Bomb
Aside from Skarmory, Chesnaught is the only pokemon that can learn spikes and phaze with roar. With all of chesnaught's resistances and immunities due to bulletproof. He can easily come in and set up spikes. The good thing about Roar is that now, he won't be set-up bait and can phaze to rack up spikes damage. Roar is also perfect for sub + disable gengar and shadow tag mega gengar. This is similar to Hippowdon but with spikes and Hammer Arm/grass move over stealth rock and Earthquake. It would be optimal to have a stealth rock partner like specially defensive Tyranitar or Specially Defensive Heatran.
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Roar
- Synthesis
- Hammer Arm/Stone Edge/Seed Bomb
Aside from Skarmory, Chesnaught is the only pokemon that can learn spikes and phaze with roar. With all of chesnaught's resistances and immunities due to bulletproof. He can easily come in and set up spikes. The good thing about Roar is that now, he won't be set-up bait and can phaze to rack up spikes damage. Roar is also perfect for sub + disable gengar and shadow tag mega gengar. This is similar to Hippowdon but with spikes and Hammer Arm/grass move over stealth rock and Earthquake. It would be optimal to have a stealth rock partner like specially defensive Tyranitar or Specially Defensive Heatran.
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It turns xHKOs into no hit kos because bullet proof doesn't let anything happen?
Yes I guess, duh.
Very cool. That set should function quite well in ou, although many things Chesnaught beats such as landorus T, gengar, gyarados, rotom W are immune to spikes, but that's okay because they probably won't all be on the same team. I only say that because he will want to phaze into mons he can wall to allow himself to keep phazing, but there are other mons so it's cool. (I realize "phaze" is spelled "phase", but a 'z' is so much cooler). Wood hammer is probably the worst option in the bottom as it hurts his staying power, but the rest is great.
Nice catch. I often forget about the HP breakpoints for subs because in most games, I either run Lefties or don't get the chance to make 4 subs. But it is a super useful thing to have.
Also, fun note. Most people use phaze, as it stands for pseudo-haze, as haze removes all of a pokemon's stat buffs.
Hah! What it they were!
I think what really makes him is his movepool. He does learn Stone Edge, right?
Yes he does and Rock Slide, I'll slash that as an option, but it has low PP and accuracy. It's better to just have stealth rock support.
I think a lot of people have the wrong idea on Chesnaught sets. SubSeed, BU, and SD all seem like really poor sets in OU. The only set I would use on Chesnaught is a set utilizing Spikes, which actually seems pretty decent for reasons I will explain later.
Now I don't see the boosting sets being very good on Chesnaught because it's very easy to stop a Chesnaught sweep with a bunch of different Pokemon. It is very vulnerable on the special side and has many weaknesses. Do not get me wrong -- the typing is pretty good defensively -- but selectively good. Chesnaught has very nice physical bulk and resistances, but it's also easy to hit Chesnaught hard thanks to its low Special Defense and weaknesses to many common types. In essence, Chesnaught can deal with certain Pokemon very well, but is also very easily beaten by certain Pokemon.
For SubSeed, the case is a bit different, although part of the reasoning why the boosting sets are poor applies here. In BW, SubSeed was not a successful strategy in most formats. Previously fantastic SubSeed Pokemon like Sceptile became much less good at SubSeeding in general (1st set on DP analysis -> last set of BW analysis) because of the generally fast-paced nature of the metagame in general. The only viable Pokemon with SubSeed are the ones who have little to no issues with opposing Grass-types, as well as either high Speed, Harvest, Prankster (note that Whimsicott has issues doing it effectively because it cannot touch Grass-types without the unreliable Hurricane), and certain other abilities.
Applying BW standards, Chesnaught does not fit them at all. It has a few things going for it with a SubSeed moveset - Spiky Shield, a defensive typing that allows Chesnaught to set up Substitute pretty easily, and the ability to break past Ferrothorn - but it's not enough to warrant using SubSeed over Spikes.
Anyways, I think Spikes / Synthesis / Seed Bomb / Hammer Arm is nice on Chesnaught because it really takes advantage of Chesnaught's attributes: it can counter certain Pokemon (such as Tyranitar, Excadrill, Landorus-T, and others) very well, but is also easily beaten by other Pokemon. Chesnaught's ability to counter those Pokemon really well gives it opportunities to Spike as the opponent switches into one of the Pokemon that easily beats Chesnaught. Chesnaught can repeatedly do this throughout the match by maintaining its health through Synthesis because it can get quite a few easy switch-ins. Meanwhile, you are (hopefully) weakening the other team with Spikes damage.
This is just a different perspective. You obviously do not have to agree with me on everything, but I feel like a lot of you guys are missing out by using sets that do not have Spikes on Chesnaught. I will probably try the SubSeed set at some point because it seems half-decent, but SubSeed as a strategy in general has not proven to be effective in the last generation.
Now I don't see the boosting sets being very good on Chesnaught because it's very easy to stop a Chesnaught sweep with a bunch of different Pokemon. It is very vulnerable on the special side and has many weaknesses. Do not get me wrong -- the typing is pretty good defensively -- but selectively good. Chesnaught has very nice physical bulk and resistances, but it's also easy to hit Chesnaught hard thanks to its low Special Defense and weaknesses to many common types. In essence, Chesnaught can deal with certain Pokemon very well, but is also very easily beaten by certain Pokemon.
For SubSeed, the case is a bit different, although part of the reasoning why the boosting sets are poor applies here. In BW, SubSeed was not a successful strategy in most formats. Previously fantastic SubSeed Pokemon like Sceptile became much less good at SubSeeding in general (1st set on DP analysis -> last set of BW analysis) because of the generally fast-paced nature of the metagame in general. The only viable Pokemon with SubSeed are the ones who have little to no issues with opposing Grass-types, as well as either high Speed, Harvest, Prankster (note that Whimsicott has issues doing it effectively because it cannot touch Grass-types without the unreliable Hurricane), and certain other abilities.
Applying BW standards, Chesnaught does not fit them at all. It has a few things going for it with a SubSeed moveset - Spiky Shield, a defensive typing that allows Chesnaught to set up Substitute pretty easily, and the ability to break past Ferrothorn - but it's not enough to warrant using SubSeed over Spikes.
Anyways, I think Spikes / Synthesis / Seed Bomb / Hammer Arm is nice on Chesnaught because it really takes advantage of Chesnaught's attributes: it can counter certain Pokemon (such as Tyranitar, Excadrill, Landorus-T, and others) very well, but is also easily beaten by other Pokemon. Chesnaught's ability to counter those Pokemon really well gives it opportunities to Spike as the opponent switches into one of the Pokemon that easily beats Chesnaught. Chesnaught can repeatedly do this throughout the match by maintaining its health through Synthesis because it can get quite a few easy switch-ins. Meanwhile, you are (hopefully) weakening the other team with Spikes damage.
This is just a different perspective. You obviously do not have to agree with me on everything, but I feel like a lot of you guys are missing out by using sets that do not have Spikes on Chesnaught. I will probably try the SubSeed set at some point because it seems half-decent, but SubSeed as a strategy in general has not proven to be effective in the last generation.
Generally, I'm not too much a fan of sub on anything. I see it's use, for sure. But definitely not on Chesnaught.
I agree that Chesnaught's best use will very likely be switching in on things it walls / is immune to, and then setting up a few spikes layers. Bulletproof gives it many, many options and it has useful typing for it to boot, resisting quakeedge, fighting, grass, and water. Additionally it can take out most spinners, hitting Excadrill, Blastoise, Starmie, and Donphan for SE with both STAB moves, and hitting Forretress for neutral.
It is not a pokemon without weaknesses, for sure. His problem will be defog users. especially Crobat, who resist both STABs, can hit through subs IF you use them, outspeeds you, and has defog. Skarmory is a problem as well. But I definitely think that he's got the ability to COMPETE in OU, if the team is built around it
Chesnaught [Assault Vest]
[Adamant][Bulletproof]
200 HP / 168 Attack / 136 Sp. Defense
•Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
•Power Up Punch
•Earthquake
•Stone Edge
Did some calcs on this set I previously posted and came up with the above ev spread. With Assault Vest and 136 evs in Sp. Def Chesnaught achieves a sp. def stat of 330. For example, it's enough to survive a Fire Blast from a Standard Mix Mence set
192 SpA Life Orb Salamence Fire Blast vs. +1 200 HP / 136 SpD (custom): 190-226 (51.77 - 61.58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Still, he will only be able OHKO Salamence back if he has a +1 or more from Power Up Punch, so his ability to fight back against Mixmence is limited, but this does show much his bulk improves through Assault Vest.
And even when Gengar gets Sludge Wave back its reduced to a 2HKO under Assault Vest, even when it's Mega Gengar which is actually preferable since he can counter more reliably with Earthquake.
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. +1 200 HP / 136 SpD (custom): 281-330 (73.75 - 86.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Wave vs. +1 200 HP / 136 SpD (custom): 288-338 (75.59 - 88.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
[Adamant][Bulletproof]
200 HP / 168 Attack / 136 Sp. Defense
•Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
•Power Up Punch
•Earthquake
•Stone Edge
Did some calcs on this set I previously posted and came up with the above ev spread. With Assault Vest and 136 evs in Sp. Def Chesnaught achieves a sp. def stat of 330. For example, it's enough to survive a Fire Blast from a Standard Mix Mence set
192 SpA Life Orb Salamence Fire Blast vs. +1 200 HP / 136 SpD (custom): 190-226 (51.77 - 61.58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Still, he will only be able OHKO Salamence back if he has a +1 or more from Power Up Punch, so his ability to fight back against Mixmence is limited, but this does show much his bulk improves through Assault Vest.
And even when Gengar gets Sludge Wave back its reduced to a 2HKO under Assault Vest, even when it's Mega Gengar which is actually preferable since he can counter more reliably with Earthquake.
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. +1 200 HP / 136 SpD (custom): 281-330 (73.75 - 86.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Wave vs. +1 200 HP / 136 SpD (custom): 288-338 (75.59 - 88.71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I fail to see how Chestnaught is a counter to Aegislash with a tank set. All you would really be doing is LeechSeed stalling him. Sure you can SpikeyShield him and run him put through a combo of that and seed but you have nothing to hit him back and the player wanted to be a jerk he'd predict your hits and kingshield. Id say better counters are Landorus-T, Quagsire, Volcarona heck even Gourgesit can take an unboosted ShadowSneak and Wilowisp then Seed Aegis.
Edit: this is Gourgeist without defense evs
Edit: this is Gourgeist without defense evs
Bulletproof does come in handy a lot. In purely defensive terms they both have some good advantages. Chesnaught resists dark, rock and ground, while Venusaur has a key resistance to fighting as well as only being 2x weak to flying. Since the weather nerf Venusaur doesn't get to use Chlorophyl as reliably, but Synthesis for both choices will be much more usable.
I think the Spikes set would be the most splashable of Chesnaught's, but I don't know what the rest of your team looks like. Megavenusaur is also a great choice if you don't have anything else as your mega.
This is what I was looking for, the mega slot is already filled with Char X but I'm trying to plan for the shaping of the meta where I imagine tons of Gengars will be. In my mind Chesnaught is better equipped to deal with him specifically but VSaur is a better kit for versatility. Just a tough choice.
Using him to Counter Mega Gengar with Chesnaught is possible, but the Gengar has to either have all moves that Chesnaught is immune to (Shadowball,Focus Blastand Sludge Bomb) or you use something like the Assault Vest set I posted, since a lot of Gengar variants are going to start carrying Sludge Wave eventually, and possibly dazzling gleam or psychic now to prepare for Chesnaught. Earthquake will be able to OHKO Mega Gengar, and you could use Stone Edge or Payback on Gengar.
Worth note: Chesnaught is a solid counter to Aqua Jet/Waterfall Locked Choice Band and Belly Drum Azumarill
Chesnaught has base 64 Speed and Azumarill has base 50 Speed
Even with 124 Speed EVs, it brings Azumarill up to 167 speed, while Chesnaught with 16 speed EVs has 168
Assuming the EVs 252/240/16 Impish Chesnaught here are the following calcs
Calcs:
Defensively
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def (custom): 38-45 (10 - 11.84%) -- 9HKO at best
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def (custom): 75-89 (19.73 - 23.42%) -- possible 6HKO
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def (custom): 120-142 (31.57 - 37.36%) -- 0.02% chance to 3HKO
Play Rough Calc: (I assumed physical Azumarill water/psychic using a physical psychic move of 90 BP)
*Note that I assumed an Aqua Jet/Waterfall locked Choice Band Azumarill, but I'll put this for reference. Chesnaught outspeeds Belly Drum Azumarill so this is irrelevant for belly drum set.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def (custom): 338-402 (88.94 - 105.78%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Offensively
0 Atk (custom) Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 218-260 (53.96 - 64.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
*Note that for Belly Drum Azumarill will already be at 50% HP
Chesnaught's Defenses vs Standard Mega Venusaur vs Standard Ferrothorn vs Standard Celebi:
Chesnaught (252 HP / 240 Def /16 Spe Impish)
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def (custom): 120-142 (31.57 - 37.36%) -- 0.02% chance to 3HKO
Standard M. Venusaur (252 HP 252 SpA 4 Def Modest)
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 4 Def (custom): 178-210 (53.45 - 63.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Standard Ferrothorn (252 HP 48 Def 208 SpDef Relaxed)
*Note that Ferrothorn is slower than Azumarill so Superpower or Ice Punch will be used
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 263-310 (74.71 - 88.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 878-1034 (249.43 - 293.75%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 275-324 (78.12 - 92.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Standard Celebi (252 HP 236 SpDef 20 Spe Calm)
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 190-224 (47.02 - 55.44%) -- 17.58% chance to 2HKO
EDIT: Forgot to include Leftovers in calculations. FIXED
Chesnaught has base 64 Speed and Azumarill has base 50 Speed
Even with 124 Speed EVs, it brings Azumarill up to 167 speed, while Chesnaught with 16 speed EVs has 168
Assuming the EVs 252/240/16 Impish Chesnaught here are the following calcs
Calcs:
Defensively
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def (custom): 38-45 (10 - 11.84%) -- 9HKO at best
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def (custom): 75-89 (19.73 - 23.42%) -- possible 6HKO
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def (custom): 120-142 (31.57 - 37.36%) -- 0.02% chance to 3HKO
Play Rough Calc: (I assumed physical Azumarill water/psychic using a physical psychic move of 90 BP)
*Note that I assumed an Aqua Jet/Waterfall locked Choice Band Azumarill, but I'll put this for reference. Chesnaught outspeeds Belly Drum Azumarill so this is irrelevant for belly drum set.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def (custom): 338-402 (88.94 - 105.78%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Offensively
0 Atk (custom) Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 218-260 (53.96 - 64.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
*Note that for Belly Drum Azumarill will already be at 50% HP
Chesnaught's Defenses vs Standard Mega Venusaur vs Standard Ferrothorn vs Standard Celebi:
Chesnaught (252 HP / 240 Def /16 Spe Impish)
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def (custom): 120-142 (31.57 - 37.36%) -- 0.02% chance to 3HKO
Standard M. Venusaur (252 HP 252 SpA 4 Def Modest)
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 4 Def (custom): 178-210 (53.45 - 63.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Standard Ferrothorn (252 HP 48 Def 208 SpDef Relaxed)
*Note that Ferrothorn is slower than Azumarill so Superpower or Ice Punch will be used
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 263-310 (74.71 - 88.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 878-1034 (249.43 - 293.75%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 275-324 (78.12 - 92.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Standard Celebi (252 HP 236 SpDef 20 Spe Calm)
+6 252+ Atk Mystic Water Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 190-224 (47.02 - 55.44%) -- 17.58% chance to 2HKO
EDIT: Forgot to include Leftovers in calculations. FIXED
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