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Chronicles in Sun (1k RMT)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Jukain, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Introduction​


    Well it has been quite a while since I've posted an RMT, the usual rant, whatever. Today I've got a sun team for you. Pretty standard, maybe not perfect, but it performs well whenever I use it. It's offensive like every sun team and all that and has the super mega powerful Victini. This team started as a team with Lilligant but for it to actually perform well I sadly have to go without it. Oh, and this is also my 1k! There's some stuff in here that'll have to do with that. Okay, here we go.

    Teambuilding​


    I started the team and my thought process was basically must use Lilligant must use Lilligant. I was testing it for an analysis and I needed to test it. This one was a Quiver Dance sweeper, and I used offensive Sunny Day Ninetales because duh I needed sun and for some reason didn't use defensive.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    I wanted a second Chlorophyll sweeper, so I put Venusaur on the team. Just your standard Growth set. I also wanted a Fire-type sweeper, so I put the manly CB Victini on the team. I used Dugtrio to take out their counters.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I wanted hazards, so I threw a Deoxys-D on the team.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    Well, that's the 5 minute team. I tried, but it was total shit. I tried Healing Wish Lilligant, team still sucked. I made a core of Bronzong / LO Latias. Let me tell you, non-max Speed Timid Latias is terrble. It was so infuriating, getting outsped by of all things Garchomp and losing games because of it. I did make it max Speed so I wouldn't facepalm every battle. Deoxys-D got kicked out because I didn't need Spikes and it was so freaking annoying to have a useless mon after the first few turns. Dugtrio because 99% it got no use. Bronzong is so underrated btw, seriously, more people should use it.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]

    This version of the team was /okay/, I'd use it again. I do have a version of this team I use with Forretress > Bronzong, and it's good. Healing Wish support is awesome. However, it's not quite as successful as the next iteration of this team. Reluctantly, I scrapped Lilligant. I needed a spinner / Magic Bouncer so badly, hazards were horrible and this certainly taught me a lesson to not use a hazard-weak team without some method of combating them. I tried Xatu but it was really bad for some reason. I put on Forretress and it did well. From there, I had an issue where Bronzong was no longer pulling its weight. It got removed, and I put Landorus-T in its place to have a good SR setter, Fighting resist, Ground immune, Volt Switch absorber, and goodish Genesect switch-in when I didn't want to bring in Ninetales. Also, I nailed it through my thick skull that offensive Ninetales wasn't dojng me any favors, so I made it defensive. Hooray team ready to go fun ensues.

    At a Glance​



    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    Importable (open)

    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Sunny Day
    - Substitute

    Victini @ Choice Band
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - V-create
    - Bolt Strike
    - Brick Break
    - U-turn

    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
    Serious Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic
    - Volt Switch

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb

    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 128 HP / 128 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    The Weather Inducer​


    [​IMG]
    this and all pokemon art from arkeis



    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
    Timid Nature
    [​IMG]Flamethrower
    [​IMG]Will-O-Wisp
    [​IMG]Sunny Day
    [​IMG]Substitute

    The Nuke​


    [​IMG]

    Victini @ Choice Band
    Ability: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    [​IMG]V-create
    [​IMG]Bolt Strike
    [​IMG]Brick Break
    [​IMG]U-turn

    Adios, entry hazards, I hardly knew ye


    [​IMG]


    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    [​IMG]Spikes
    [​IMG]Rapid Spin
    [​IMG]Toxic
    [​IMG]Volt Switch

    The Chlorophyll Sweeper


    [​IMG]

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    [​IMG]Growth
    [​IMG]Giga Drain
    [​IMG]Hidden Power Fire
    [​IMG]Sludge Bomb

    Team Pivots


    [​IMG]

    Landorus-T @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    [​IMG]Stealth Rock
    [​IMG]Earthquake
    [​IMG]Stone Edge
    [​IMG]U-turn

    [​IMG]

    Latias @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 128 HP / 128 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    [​IMG]Draco Meteor
    [​IMG]Surf
    [​IMG]Roost
    [​IMG]Hidden Power Fire

    Conclusion​


    Well, that's the team. Not much else to say really. In hide tags is other stuff not related to the team whatsoever if you're interested.

    shoutouts + other thing (open)
    The below few paragraphs are an introduction to who I am on Smogon and how I got to today. Don't read if you don't feel like it

    Fresh out of 4th gen WiFi (my cousin had an edited cartridge and gave me the Pokemon), I had started BW (around Garchomp meta maybe). I made an excachomp sand team, bog standard except that it had terrible Curse Ferrothorn on it. I posted it on Smogon (this kinda cool for me making an RMT on my first and 1k post) and found out it was okay and got some good advice. I lurked a bit after that, tried rating a few teams. That wasn't my thing, so I just chilled on Smogon PO and battled. Garchomp got banned, I was like meh, okay. Blaziken got banned too, before Garchomp. I tried doing CAP somewhere in this and got an infraction for Lurk More. I didn't post for a bit after that. I posted a little in DST and got an infraction doing that. Not much significant happened. I did nothing. would say I was kinda just a random meh user, not super duper bad but not good either. This lurking and doing things sporadically all changed when DW came along, however.

    Well, DW had just started with Matthew setting up a metagame, and I was pumped to jump right in. I posted maybe 2 threads in DW DST and posted. I was stubborn even when I was wrong and a contrarian, which certainly didn't make anyone like me. I of course was oblivious to this fact. I jumped into DW S&P and did 2 analyses. I did something for RU too.The writing was not horrific, the QC was a lot but whatever. The real thing was that I had a horrible attitude. At all times, I had to be a smart aleck, bicker, and act like I was better than everyone. Looking back at some of these posts, I can't even believe I posted some of what I did. Somehow this got me no infractions; until I copied the structure of an OU analysis and wound up with a plagiarism infraction. Boom. I was in ICBB for 3 months. That in itself was pretty bad. I wasn't likely to be able to contribute to C&C ever again either, and that sucked. I was banned for another few weeks at another interval. Basically, I had devolved to total shit and given up.

    The moment my ICBB ended, I was so relieved. The first thing I did was, for god knows what reason after everything, PM the person who had infracted me to get permission to contribute to C&C again. However, this time I was determined to not screw up. I had been very politely informed that there would be no third chance. I started reserving some analyses. And then more. And then more. And contributing to projects. Soon, I had an immense workload that peaked at 12 analyses running all at once. I don't know how that happened, it just did. I did much better this time around. I'd learned not to act like an ass, not to be a contrarian, and to respect others, in addition to improved writing skills and metagame knowledge. As I started finishing analyses, my post quality was at a rock bottom low. I was make one-liner posts in the OU SM forum, useless posts, annoying posts, and made annoying titles when my analyses were ready for upload. I was told, firmly, that I was screwing up. I got my act together and churned out more analyses, and in the past month or two got this ladybug badge. Cheers!

    in no particular order

    Birkal - look up inspiration in the dictionary and you will find Birkal. birk-a-dit.

    #TAONU - social chan too much fun. is all that must be said.

    BattleStar - throughout everything, we've been friends. awesome to be around too.

    RODAN - somehow he managed to get ops whenever I was on #pokemon and repeatedly kick me. iirc there was some sort of script that would kick me. what fun, being trolled by rodan that is.

    Zebraiken - a very helpful user that has given me advice on not being stupid multiple times

    sandshrewz - I'm still looking for float-right...

    Matthew - dw best tier :D never talked but still creating good DW is awesome.

    TROP (TropiOUs) - manage to troll the living shit out everything, including me, daily. for example, I am usually greeted on irc with:
    TROP: pokemon0078
    TROP: ur a faget

    ebeast - practically tripled my knowledge of nu just by when I randomly asking things on irc. amazing autogreet as well. nprt nprt.

    Mysterious Trainer - the stupidest a forum poster ever. a long long while ago he used to not be a dick and helped me with my team. what happened...

    alkinesthetase - all I can say is that you always tend to talk about stuff that I don't understand on #pokemon

    other people I can't think of something for: Harsha, TrollFreak, and Molk

    whatever I tried, for some reason had a mental block. no one probably cares but sorry if I forgot you!


    /me is happy about being able to post again
  2. asterat

    asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,006
    Hey ok team I would really like to suggest some EV spread fixings as your as really basic and should be customized.

    Al heatrans are going fuck your whole team up would use LO infernape over victini or earthquake venusaur. Using mixed latios could also help you out.

    Venusaur (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 156 Atk / 172 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Naive Nature
    IVs: 30 Spd
    - Giga Drain
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Growth

    That would be mixed venusaur.

    Your team does not really utilize latias' bulk well and I would use LO latios.

    Latios (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 24 Atk / 244 Spd / 240 SAtk
    Hasty Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Roost/Memento

    Attack EVs always KO SpD heatran after rocks. Speed to outspeed terrakion, hidden power fire lowers speed anyways.

    Mixed Infernape:

    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 84 Atk / 252 Spd / 172 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Close Combat
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn

    I would definitely use 2 of those 3 to easily muscle past heatran.

    Switch your SpD EVs on landorus-t to defense. I am assuming that was a typo.
  3. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    Hi Asterat, thanks for the rate:

    I have been testing mixed Venusaur lately and it's great. I'll edit it in I guess. Latias is needed because Latios just isn't bulky enough to take a ton of resisted hits. Realize, I use Latias and sometimes have it taking Ice Beams. Latios can't do that. Yeah, typo on Landorus-T, oops...
  4. King of Blades

    King of Blades

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Hi!

    There are a few changes to make to this team.

    Firstly, I do agree with Asterat's suggestion of mixed venusaur. It is the set I use every time a build a sun team with venusaur, and it works.

    Another thing is that your team is quite weak to dragons. Your only steel type cannot tank draco meteors at all, and most of those dragons carry a fire move anyway. The only suggestion I can give that might fix this would be mamoswine. Mamoswine packs a strong priority ice shard as well as acceptable bulk. It also carries one of the strongest earthquakes in the game. I really don't know what pokemon to replace it with; the best I can do is give you the set. I really am in no position to deem which pokemon to replace, as they have such good synergy that only you can know the weakest link.

    Here is the set.

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @Life Orb
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed | Adamant | Thick Fat
    ~Ice Shard
    ~Earthquake
    ~Icicle Spear
    ~Superpower

    Well, ice shard is great for killing the therians and dragons. Earthquake hits really hard. Icicle spear is secondary STAB for grass types. Superpower gets coverage on ferrothorn and other nasty stuff that walls mamoswine. Thick Fat removes its weakness to fire, although the moves are still stronger. It also gives it a nice resist to boltbeam, which is mostly fluff because that combination isn't seen much, but it is still very convenient.

    Hope this helps!

    ~KoB
  5. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
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    Hey cool team dude, congrats on 1,000 posts!

    My first suggestion is an easy one, change Venusaur's nature to Timid. While a + Spe nature on a chlorophyll Pokemon at first seems like a waste, I'll tell you why its almost a necessity. Choice Scarf 110s outspeed Modest Venusaur, even in the Sun; Choice Scarf Latios is actually gained a lot more usage and will stop your sweeper in its place. Timid is an easy fix to this and at +2 Venusaur easily OHKOs with Sludge Bomb.

    My second suggestion is to change up your Ninetales spread. At the moment Calm Mind Latias can take advantage on many of your Pokemon to set up and you don't really have any Pokemon who want to take it on, because of this I recommend changing your Ninetales to a more Specially Defensive Spread. The set I suggest is:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 160 SDef / 100 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flamethrower
    - Sunny Day
    - Roar


    One of Ninetales only niches, besides Drought of course :), is as a surprisely bulky special defensive phazer. Ninetales doesn't really mind CM Latias and will be able to roar it out for most of the game, until you're in a better situation to deal with it. This set allows Ninetales to take the Dragon Pulses or HP Fires Latias will throw, while also being able to switch into Bulky Politoeds Scalds. You keep Sunny Day and Will-O-Wisp to deter other Weather starters as well as having more overall utility.

    An interesting little change I've thought about is replacing Toxic on Forretress for Earthquake. Your team really doesn't like Heatran. Landorus-T helps you in some regard, but an Offensive Heatran will have no problems tearing through it and Landorus-T can't even switch in. On the other hand your best switch-in, Latias, can't really dent Heatran too much if in the Sun as Surf is nerfed. Heatran loves switching in on Forretress, usually its about as free a switch as you'll find. But thats where the gimmickiness comes in, smacking a Heatran with Earthquake on the switch in will do a lot for removing it completely for your team. Granted this is definitely a gimmick, and while they can help, they can't be relied on completely.

    I'm not terribly sure what the merits are of Specially Defensive Landorus-T and would love to hear your thoughts on them. I want to recommend something else for that slot that better deals with Heatran but I want to know more about the Pokemon before slating to replace it.

    Good Luck!
  6. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    King of Blades, I think I'm going to not use Mamoswine. There isn't really a "weakest link". Draco Meteors I do have to play around, but Mamoswine doesn't help in taking them and Forretress cannot be replaced because I need a spinner. Thanks for the rate though.

    Joeyboy, I like the look of that Ninetales set, I think I'll try it out. I've contemplated Earthquake but never really tested it, so I'll make that change. Timid on Venusaur is definitely worth consideration. I mainly use Modest because I tend to, very often, bring in Venusaur unboosted. However, if I tried to get boosts, I'm sure I could. Thanks for the rate!
  7. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    I meant to tell you in the Ninetales thread, but didn't get around to it: your speed EVs are surplus. You outrun Jolly Mamoswine, but you have a bit of extra speed you aren't using for anything. The EV spread I suggested was a mirror of the set you were using as I posted (I think?), but with the 120 EVs from Sp. Def placed into Defense instead. If you're only trying to outrun Jolly Mamo, you should be using 252 HP/160 Def/92 Speed, which hits 286 speed to Mamo's 284.
  8. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    oops, thanks sjcrew, I'll make sure to fix that in the Ninetales thread too.
  9. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    327
    Hi man, nice team!
    I can't do a full rate cuz on my phone atm. The team looks good as is so heres a few minor nit picks. First of all the team doesn't like lo latis too much but I guess you can play around that, but have you tried special def forre alongside physically defensive lanT? I would also put Hp ice over toxic on forre seeing as sub tox gliscor is a bitch for the team, or any sub gliscor/lando. For jelli u can just vswitch to Vic and kill something in sun so I don't think that's too big of a problem. Offensive heatran in sun however, is a huge threat. The standard balloon set is devastating for the team to face, as only 2 pokes can touch it ( land is outsped) I don't play sun often so I don't know exactly how sub nails operates ( status the other weather on switch works? Dodging pursuit is nice) but I would suggest Hp ground on nails. Lastly your Latinas can only speed tie with Hp fire latis, which I doubt ur ognna be willing to guess or bank on, so I would distribute 8 speed Eva to Hp or sp att. You still outsped base 108s. I dunno what that puts the Hp at but make it hit xx9 for lo number. One huge threat to this team is a common sand combo ttar + lando. The combo is extremely deadly to your team and is hard to beat. Special def forre with Hp ice remedie the situation somewhat, seeing as lando sets up on 3/6 of ur team. For venusaur u can try max sp att, timid and enough speed to hit 264, then put the rest into Hp to try and tank a timid ep (tho most run modest). This way u hit a bit less hard but outsped scarf latis and horses and can set up easier due to bulk. Rp land is a threat for every sun team but I'm sure with smart switching you can outplay that threat.
    Good luck and grats on 1k!
  10. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Hey there, pokemon0087!

    I've ran Sun teams for a while now, especially variants without Dugtrio like this, and I really know the common weaknesses and ways to patch them, so hopefully I can help you out! First of all, any kind of Heatran is very threatening. Latias' Surf in sun isn't going to be doing much damage, and it only really fears a Brick Break from Victini which is only doing about ~60% to a Specially Defensive Varient. Another major threat is Volcarona. Volcarona can easily set up on Ninetales, Venusaur, Latias, and Forretress and proceed to basically sweep your team. One last weakness I see is mainly to Special Dragons. Special Dragons like Hydreigon, Lati@s, etc. basically get a free kill everytime they switch in. From taking a look at the team, Latias seems the most replaceable. Latias checks opposing Chlorophyll sweepers and Keldeo; the former is checked by what I'm going to recommend, and the latter is fucked by Venusaur. With all of this in mind, I recommend a Choice Band Snorlax instead of Latias. With a Choice Band, Snorlax acts as a fantastic Pursuit Trapper for special dragons, a great Heatran Counter, a great Venusaur check, and it really seems to fit your team well. The EV's and set found at the bottom allow you to live a Banded Tyranitar's Stone Edge and to have maximum attack and special defensive investment to tank things like Specs Latios' Draco Meteors. With the change of Latias ---> Snorlax, you lose a check to one very threatening Pokemon: Landorus. An unconventional way to change this is to add an Air Balloon Volcarona instead of Victini. I would say Balloon Victini, but I've tested it before and it's worse than Volcarona. Without a power boosting item, Victini is rather mediocre. Volcarona, however, is a fantastic user of Air Balloon. With the balloon intact it can set up on Specially Defensive Hippowdon lacking Whirlwind as well as check Special Landorus and Mamoswine, making it an ideal choice for your team. I really advocate max special attack and max speed with a Timid nature and Fire Blast. Fire Blast nets several KO's Fiery Dance doesn't like weakened Gyarados. The last slot could be Hidden Power Ground to OHKO Heatran.

    One of the few nitpicks I have for the team would be using Spikes > Toxic Spikes and Gyro Ball > Toxic on Forretress. Toxic Spikes are really mediocre in the current metagame as they take too much time to set up for the medicore reward they give. Spikes can't be absorbed by common Poison-typed Pokemon like opposing Tentacruel and Venusaur, and they are definitely more effective. Gyro Ball gives you a secondary check to Terrakion and Mamoswine which Landorus-T and Volcarona can't check forever, and I always like having an attacking move on Forretress. One last nitpick would be Ninetales' EV spread: Tornadus-T seems really threatening and Substitute eases Dugtrio switch-in predictions (what your current EV spread does), so try a Specially Defensive spread to help tank Hurricanes better. Here are the sets and changes I recommend below:

    Sets:
    [​IMG]
    Snorlax @ Choice Band | Thick Fat
    Adamant | 40 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 176 SDef
    Body Slam / Pursuit / Fire Punch / Superpower

    [​IMG]
    Volcarona @ Air Balloon | Flame Body
    Timid | 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spd | 30 SpA / 30 SDef
    Quiver Dance / Fire Blast / Hidden Power / Bug Buzz



    Changes:


    • [​IMG]
      • Toxic Spikes ----> Spikes
      • Toxic ----> Gyro Ball
    • [​IMG]
      • 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe Timid ----> 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spe Timid

    Good luck with your team!

    Edit: Landorus-T needs to be Defensive to check Dragons, is that a typo?

  11. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    No, guys, stop suggesting changing the Ninetales spread for stuff she isn't supposed to counter. Ninetales is supposed to get free switches in on Bullet Punches, Iron Heads, Power Whips, etc...then switch in on stuff like Sp. Def Tyranitar after she burns it. How does 120 Sp. Def EVs help her take Hurricanes? It's always a 2HKO if it even hits. All she's supposed to do is take one in a clutch situation.

    Ninetales has plenty of special defense with just 252 HP and this is before considering that she doesn't check any special attacker whatsoever. With the Defense EVs, you can do crazy shit like switch into CB Scizor's Superpower, switch out, and survive a Bullet Punch on the revenge. The Sp. Def set takes 4-5% more damage from Bullet Punch, which is pretty unacceptable.

    Btw, if you're still hurting for Heatran checks, just use a support Garchomp. It leaves you slightly more vulnerable to Terrakion, but Latias, Venusaur, and Victini can take advantage of a CC lock (especially Victini, since he usually gets a kill every time he comes out). If you roll with Garchomp, you'll end up relying on prediction and pivoting to beat Terrakion, but it's better than being walled by Heatran all day!
  12. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,001
    Hi Pokemon0078.
    A strong team overall, this remains a bit ordinary when your team is a classic sun but it includes originals touches such as Forre3, Landorus! But I find that you overlook a little in the moves, you do what against Dragonite once Landorus-T dead? What can probably happen very easily, because even with the special ability to Intimidate you seem to forget that there're 2HKO by Nite contempt without boost, you can even not toxic and leave as he has fire punch + Lum berry, so you'll be forced to kill is very disadvantageous for you and the rest of the team putting a big pressure. I you Council therefore to Victreebel on Venusaure for Revenge Kill Nite/Haxorus/Salamence while touching Pokemon Bugg-Grass-Steel with Weather Ball (Fire):

    Show Hide
    Victreebel (M) @ Life Orb
    Cap.Spé: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+ Spd) - Atk
    -Giga Drain
    -Growth
    -Weather Ball
    -Hidden Power [Ice]


    Then I also noticed that Forr3 had no Hidden power Ice, it is a little annoying thing for you, Gliscor/Landorus/Dug one Volt switch, leaves toxic it can serve you against Jellicents (Anti-spinn) which can be very bad for a Sun. But you have none against Terrakion Sub salar Berry, I'm not going to lie, many teams are weak to Kion but they have generally a pillars preventing it from properly place, here it can come on anyone except Venusaure which may be address by Bliss-Tran-Chans very often in teams to switches, specifying as Forretress does Gyroball so I you Council Donphan on Landorus to put Scizor however the worries is to choose between the Sword Dancer or bander, as they are very effective, but I would advise you to hard it because you are very weak to reuniclus CM saw that Tias he fact that 40% + 1 and a pokemon and Victini quite weak in the Sr's and is no long in a game especially in this form as well as Gengar Sub(disable or 3attaks) :

    Show Hide
    Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / SpeD
    Impish Nature (+ Def, - SAtk)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Ice Shard
    -Rapid Spin
    -Earthquake


    Show Hide
    Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
    Cap.Spé: Technician
    EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+ Atk, - SAtk)
    -U - turn
    -Pursuit
    -Bullet Punch
    -Superpower


    PS: For Forretress you put the attack with an image of types poison (spikes).

    Good Luck.

    ~Leftiez
  13. SegaJennis

    SegaJennis

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    Just thought I should point out that Victory Star only works in Double and Triple Battles, not Singles.

    85% Accuracy is still fairly decent though.
  14. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    252SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Hurricane vs 252HP/120SpDef Flash Fire Ninetales (Neutral): 66% - 78% (232 - 274 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Hurricane vs 252HP/0SpDef Flash Fire Ninetales (Neutral): 74% - 88% (262 - 309 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.


    An almost guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock compared to a good chance to live is a pretty good suggestion in my opinion. Especially since he lacks a good counter and you still tank Bullet Punches, a Superpower, etc. decently. No need to be so hostile about it, friend.

    It works in Single Battles, actually :o

    Edit: I was right in the sense Victini helps itself, but you were right in the sense that Victini doesn't help its teammates! Haha, I misinterpreted your post.
  15. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    O bs, I can't get anything special <.<
  16. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    This further illustrates my point. If you switch into Hurricane, you're only doing it once. If rocks are up, in that scenario, you are effectively dead and Tornadus can set up Rain Dance right in front of you to reverse your momentum. Tornadus requires a good check that isn't Ninetales.
  17. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    Rain Dance Tornadus-T isn't common, especially on Specs Tornadus-T where the calcs suggest a KO, and I would want to not live a Specs Hurricane to not lose the weather war. I don't get your point, please stop this pointless argument.
  18. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    I'm citing a situation that's happened to me several times during an actual match, but that doesn't matter (LO will just U-turn into Politoed as you switch out anyway, making your endeavor pointless). The crux of what I am saying is that you should not be switching Ninetales into Hurricane at all under common conditions. In your calcs, if rocks are up and Ninetales switches into Hurricane, it will die switching back in and Sun won't go up. You have to spin before bringing Ninetales in regardless of circumstance.

    Also, misleading information; Ninetales lives a Specs Hurricane at full HP no matter what: 74.9% - 88.3% You can take a Specs Hurricane after Rocks with 120 So Def EVs, true (66.3% - 78.3%), but you could just as well die and lose your Ninetales for no reason.

    Speaking of Tornadus-T, I don't know how you're beating him at all with this team. :/ The thing I can really think of is changing Forry back to Bronzong and turning Latias into Espeon to prevent rocks. Assuming you switch Lando into Garchomp, you shouldn't be any more vulnerable to Heatran than you were before.

    EDIT: Missing the main point again. I'm saying don't change your spread just to switch into Hurricane after rocks when it's still risky and definitely don't switch into Hurricane at all if you can avoid it. Those 120 EVs cover a contingency that should not be happening over lowering the net damage Ninetales takes from Pokemon she commonly switches into/checks. This is explained in the Ninetales revamp thread.
  19. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    You're assuming you can't spin before the second switch in after tanking the hurricane, but in another scenario Rocks won't be up the first time, presumably spun away? Not the greatest arguments, which I asked you to stop previously..

    Possibly living a hurricane is definitely helpful in several game states, so it's a worthwhile change.
  20. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    Pretty cool sun team.Like previously stated special dragons such as Lati@s is a major threat.It outspeeds 5 out of 6 of your pokemon in sun and all of them outside sun and easily land several kills.They can even pull of a sweep with Specs Dragon Pulse.Heatran also causes a lot of trouble.

    I don't have much experience with Sun teams so I can't really give you a solution for sure but I think using Sawsbuck as your chloro sweeper will help a lot against Special Dragons and Heatran,two of this team's biggest threats.Thanks to it's 95 base speed you can afford to run adamant so you'll be able to outrun and smack the Lati twins hard with LO STAB Frustation/Double Edge in sun and destroy heatran with EQ(Nature Power) or Jump kick(less reliable since heatran carries protect).You don't really lose out much that Venusaur had so i think it's worth to consider.


    The set
    Show Hide
    Sawsbuck (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Horn Leech
    - Frustration
    - Nature Power
    [
  21. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    I'm going to test out the Pokemon changes. idk where you got that Forretress has Toxic Spikes. I'd like to keep the Defense EVs where they are based on what SJCrew said. I think I'm going to use Earthquake instead of Toxic like was suggested before. Thanks for the rates!
  22. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    bumping; I'm going to edit Princess Bri's changes into the OP shortly, I'd like to see if anything's wrong after them.

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