1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Claydol (Physically Defensive)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Danilo, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    [​IMG]

    [Why this set deserves to be on site]
    . Claydol has a small niche in checking two huge threats in the OU metagame, Landorus and Terrakion.
    . Claydol can 2OHKO both of those threats, making it a reliable counter, in addition to being a check.
    . Claydol has access to the invaluable Rapid Spin, a move many defensive pokes in OU only dream of. In addition to checking Terrakion and Landorus, Claydol can support teammates that are weak to entry hazards, with Rapid spin.
    . Claydol is able to avoid Spikes and Toxic Spikes due to its ability, which is invaluable on any rapid spinner.



    [Overview]
    .Overall decent defense spread with 60HP,105 DEF and 120 SPD
    .Useful immunity with the ability levitate.
    .Access to rapid spin.
    .No access to reliable recovery outside of Rest.
    .The ability to dodge most entry hazards and the resistance to Stealth Rock only makes it a more efficient Rapid Spinner.

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Stealth rock / Toxic
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 252 HP / 252 DEF / 4SPD


    [SET COMMENTS]
    . This set is likely Claydol's most competitively viable set.
    . Claydol is able to check Terrakion and Landorus as Terrakion's STAB moves are resisted by Claydol, and Landorus's can't hit Claydol with Earthquake.
    . Ice Beam allows Claydol to prevent Dragonite and Salamence from setting up on itself. Ice beam also allows Claydol to hit Landorus.
    . Claydol has access to rapid spin, which can aid Claydol's teammates in sweeping.
    . Claydol makes for an excellent and efficient Stealth Rock user since it can check common physical sweepers like Landorus and Terrakion, and then set up Stealth Rocks as they switch. If Stealth Rock is already being used, Toxic can also be used in the second slot.
    . Earthquake gives Claydol a power STAB move that allows Claydol to two hit KO standard Terrakion

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    . In addition to checking Landorus and Terrakion, Claydol can switch in on Mienshao without much to fear, other than taking a bit of damage from U-Turn.
    . A screen of choice, whether it be Light Screen or Reflect, can also be used in the fourth move slot.
    . Psychic is a good way for Claydol to hit Conkeldurr, as well as adding an additional STAB move.
    . Claydol is also a excellent switch in to all gliscor variants that are lacking Toxic. Ice Fang will be doing minuscule damage to Claydol, and Claydol can fire back with a 4X super effective Ice Beam.
    . Claydol makes an excellent member to a Sun team. Claydol resists rock type moves, and is immune to all ground type moves. In addition to supporting a Drought team with its typing, it can also remove entry hazards, which Drought teams struggle with in particular.

    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    . Claydol can also use Psychic as a move in the 4th move slot, but Earthquake hits more things for super effective damage.
    . Claydol can also run a dual screening set but this means that Claydol will likely be losing out on Rapid Spin.
    . Claydol learns Calm Mind, but is largely outclassed by Reuinculus.
    . Grass Knot deserves a mention because it can hit Gastrodon switch ins.
    . Hidden Power Fire allows you to hit common switch ins like Ferrothorn and Scizor, whom Claydol has trouble with.

    [COUNTERS]
    . Claydol can't do much to bulky waters, other than Toxic.
    . Adamant Lucario has a solid chance of killing Claydol if it manages to get up a Swords Dance as Claydol switches in, and Stealth Rocks are up.
    . Gyarados spells doom for Claydol, as it can not take STAB Waterfalls from the beast.
    . Powerful special attackers in general will destroy Claydol, although Claydol has very nice natural special bulk.

    [TEAMMATES]
    . Chansey and Blissey can cover the special attacks that Claydol can't take, while supporting Claydol with Wish. Claydol can also take all the STAB fighting moves that Chansey and Blissey are afraid of.
    . Jirachi complements Claydol well, as Jirachi resists many of Claydol's weaknesses and Claydol is immune to Jirachi's ground weakness. Similar to Chansey and Blissey, a specially defensive Jirachi can take special moves aimed at Claydol.
  2. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Now that Excadrill's gone, Claydol is going to require even more justification to get an OU analysis, since it was one of its few reliable checks. It's almost complete setup fodder for stuff like Gyarados, and apart from controlling hazards it doesn't really do much in OU. Dragonite isn't even OHKO'd by Ice Beam after Stealth Rock (63.2% - 75.5%), and Earth Power only does 52.8% - 62.2% to Specially Defensive Heatran. I'm not feeling it, but I guess being a reliable check to Terrakion and Landorus (HP Ice only deals 30.2% - 35.8%) is useful.
  3. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    I agree certainly agree with you about the Gyarados part of your argument, but in reality, I'm not sure if anything can realistically check Dragonite(IMO of course). Since Terrakion and Landorus are gaining in popularity, I felt that Claydol could occupy a small niche by checking those two pokes. Thanks for the feedback.
  4. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    Alright I'll make sure to add that when I come back home. Thanks for the help
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,564
    If Claydol's role is to counter Terrakion, it NEEDS Earth Power. Slash Toxic with Rapid Spin or Stealth Rock, not with the move it's using to take out Terrakion -_-

    I agree with GtM - Claydol's niche is restricted to countering 2 mons. It doesn't even counter Landorus well, since even non-choiced Landorus often packs U-turn for momentum. It's really only good for countering Terrakion. It's not even good at it, since it needs to break Terrakion's Air Balloon first, and Earth Power doesn't even OHKO a -1 Terrakion in sandstorm, while Terrakion scores a 3HKO. So basically Claydol is used to counter all Terrakion variants, except for the Double Dance Air Balloon Terrakion in sandstorm.
  6. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    Maybe I should suggest Earthquake has opposed to Earthpower. Earthquake does slightly more to Terrakion and it ignores the special defense boost Terrakion gets in the sand. Making changes now to the thread now.
  7. TTar13

    TTar13

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    9
    Just a quick note, i believe grass knot has only 20 base power on rotom-w.
  8. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,158
    Inefficient. I would just favor going for a Relaxed nature if you want to call the set "Physically Defensive".

    Claydol really isn't as bad as it looks. Even though Excadrill getting banned gives it less of a reason to exist, it still checks lots of other meta threats like Terrakion and Dragonite (which I have noticed have gone up in usage lately). I think that it deserves an OU analysis, but it will be up to QC to make that decision.
  9. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    Ive been waiting for this ! Claydol has a niche as a small support mon on offensive teams, very similar to Donphan, taking hits and countering 2 of the biggest threats.
    I support the fact that Earthquake is better than Earth Power. Think about his targets .. SDef Jirachi ? Ttar ? SDef Heatran ? Terrakion under sandstorm ? They all take more from Earthquake.
  10. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    Oh damn really LOL. I'll be sure to take that part out. Editing now
  11. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    Oops lol, i was doing some of the editting around 12 so i made a silly mistake D;
    I've finished editing everything and i believe it is done, more constructive criticism would be nice though :D
  12. Lesser Smaug

    Lesser Smaug

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    145
    Mienshao and Landorus often carry Hidden Power Ice. You could say Choice Terrakion carry X-Scissor too, but it will most often be using its STAB moves, which Claydol resist.
  13. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    Claydol has a ridiculous base 120 special defense stat. HP ice from both of the mons you mentioned will not be doing too much damage.
    Hp ice from the standard Landorus is a 3 hit ko
    Hp ice from Mienshao is a 4 hit ko.
    X-Scissor from a scarf terrakion is a 3hit ko while and a the choice band set is a 2ohko. but in the case you get hit with a choice banded x scissor, claydol can just switch out into a teammate that resist x-scissor.

    Note*: I've stated that Claydol can switch into Gliscor, in order to make the set a little more viable.
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,564
    Claydol can certainly take a HJK from Mienshao for the team, but it would then need to immediately switch out to avoid taking a LO U-turn.

    I also fail to see how Claydol beats Dragonite who has a chance to 2HKO without DD up, and takes pittance from Ice Beam. How does Claydol deal with TTar, who often packs Crunch?

    I don't see how Claydol is beneficial to offensive teams, since it kills momentum and is set-up bait for Rain / Ferrothorn / Grass mons / Dual Screeners / Smash Passers, etc. At least Donphan has the beefy attack to punish offensive mons that tries to set up on it with STAB EQ / Stone Edge combo, or simply disrupt set up with Roar. It also reliably spins Rocks for the team thanks to Odor Sleuth.
  15. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    This set isn't meant to beat Dragonite, but it does threaten the mon if stealth rocks are up.
    I do agree with your point on how Claydol doesn't function well against Rain teams, but it does a decent job in checking Landorus, and a good job at checking Terrakion. I've also found it a good switch into Taunt/Swords Dance Gliscor, which stall teams have problems for.
    Maybe I should mention that Claydol is probably best fitted on a stall team.
  16. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    And Claydol has on the other hand a ground immunity and a fight resist, making him a better Terrakion/Claydol counter than Donphan, who's 2HKOed by hp ice and can die from CB Close Combat. They both have good and bad side
  17. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    Agreed, they it's definitely a trade off but what's better about Claydol is that it can carry Ice Beam to prevent Gliscor from setting up all over it. If Donphan is running Odor Sleuth, it's likely not running Roar, which lets Gliscor set up on it. Personally, I don't like Odor Sleuth Donphan because all the major spin blockers can hit Donphan with a scald/surf (in Jellicent's case) or a shadow ball (in Gengar's case). Ultimately, it's going to be up to Q/C team to see if this set is decent enough to be on site. I'm just glad that I didn't do a terrible job with my presentation haha.
  18. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,170
    I would just like to point out the best reason for using Claydol over Donphan: Levitate. Immunity to ground is so important for a spinner its not even funny. First of all, it gives Claydol immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, allowing it to come and go as it pleases. Since both Donphan and Claydol lack instant recovery, being able to avoid Spikes and Toxic Spikes goes a long way in the long run. Especially when playing stall. If Donphan gets poisoned by Toxic Spikes as it goes for a spin, the opponent can just wait until Donphan dies of Poison and just get their hazards back up later. Claydol does not have such problems. Claydol is in my opinion one of the most useful members of a Sun team. It boasts a Ground immunity and a Rock resist, provides spin support, and gives you an answer to common threats such as Terrakion and Landorus. All these reasons together, make Claydol a viable Pokemon in OU.
  19. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    Thanks New World Order, I completely forgot about the immunity to Toxic Spikes and Spikes. This certainly makes Claydol more viable in OU. I've only used Claydol on stall/defensive teams but I haven't tried it on a sun team yet. Knowing your knowledge of the metagame,and the reasons you listed, Claydol could be an excellent member of a sun team. I'll add your insight to my thread. Thanks!

    Note*- should i list Ninetales as a partner, or is that already assumed when I mentioned that Claydol works well on Drought teams?
  20. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    Claydol's niche is certainly sun teams. Other than that, Claydol is pretty useless it just sits on its ass and Rapid Spins. Not too useful in OU. It can't switch into CB Terakion continuously because it lacks recovery, so its main niche it's not even that good at.
  21. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    It can certainly switch in on CB Terrakion multiple times, it does a much better job of checking it than Skarmory since Skarm gets 2ohko'd. The same is true about Gliscor(but if stone edge misses, than it can ko with eq), but Claydol is different in that aspect.
  22. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¬°YA HA!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,886
    Since you mentioned Grass Knot in OO, Hidden Power Fire should be mentioned as well. It can nail common switch-ins such as Ferrothorn and Scizor, and allow Claydol to deal massive damage to Forretress.
  23. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    I'll mention that but Claydol is the beats Forretress already since the most Forre can do is Payback
  24. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,307
    Well, I'll be taking down this thread in two days so that I can get to work on another analysis.
  25. Iconic

    Iconic
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,900
    claydol is pretty much inferior to just about every rapid spinner imaginable in OU. with excadrill gone, there's even less reason to use it. doesn't really warrant an analysis.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)