You make a good point but with Charge Beam you have a pretty weak move (which boosts SAtk I admit) leaving you walled by Tyranitar, Lati@s (Latias moreso than Latios), and unable to even touch the rare Krookodile. If being walled by Aegislash (sort of) is necessary than so be it. Also Aegislash CAN have Iron Head. He will still be a pain. I was moreso looking for criticism on the EVs and Item though, wanted to know if I needed to take one defense all out or if I REALLY need leftovers.
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Pokémon Clefable
- Thread starter Kriptini
- Start date
- Status
Trainer_ZER0
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Leftovers isn't needed at all, but it is nice just in case. I split my EVS between Def and SpD just so it can tank both equally.
If your gonna split defenses so they are equal I posted a spread that's overall as optimized for damage as possible while keeping Defense and Special Defense even (Bold 244 HP/156 Def/108 SDef). Also I like to take advantage of my gifts, Like recoil-less Life Orb.
Trainer_ZER0
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
I should try that :D
Although leftovers has saved me from many battles xD
Do you think I should run Lefties over LO? Especially considering I don't have Charge Beam to boost my attack. I've been using Cosmic Power Life Orb Clefable in-game and it works really well for me.
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What about Unaware Clefable? It's definitely viable in OU but doesn't get enough mention here. I am using it right now with Wish/Protect/Fire Blast/Moonblast, but I am still considering other moves since Softboiled by itself would be better than Wish-protect but it's not compatible with Moonblast. Any suggestions to the moveset?
Actually I believe Unaware Clefable is more common than Magic Guard and Soft-boiled is not compatible with Unaware, not Moonblast.
As for movesets, the most common for Unaware Clefable are:
1) Moonblast/Heal Bell/Wish/Protect
2) Moonblast/Heal Bell/Calm Mind/Moonlight (cannot have Soft-boiled with Unaware)
3) Moonblast/Calm Mind/Wish/Protect
I like to have Thunder Wave on my Unaware Clefable. Fucks up Dragon Dancers.
I run an Unaware Clefable with the following.
Clefavle
Ability: Unaware
Item: Leftovers
Modest Nature
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Spe
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Moonlight
This Clefable can set-up on a decent number of set-up sweepers, especially if hazards are gone to bluff Magic Guard. After two boosts, few unboosted Special Attacker can outdamage Moonlight+Leftovers. Moonblast for STAB and Fire coverage for Steel and Grass types, Mega Venusaur still taking more damage from Fire Blast than resisted Moonblast.
EVs set to maximize physical bulk while CM bolsters offenses and Special Bulk. EVs to outspeed neutral speed Aegislash for Fire Blast and Tyranitar to heal and boost against it.
The main thing this set needs dealt with are Fire Types, especially Heatran. I like Keldeo or Gyarados for this role, as Keldeo can use Secret Sword while Gyarados can use intimidate to cover Clefable's Physical defenses, boost itself, and eat Steel Attacks, while Waterfall deals with Fire and Bounce (normal) or Ice Fang (Mega) deals with Grass types, and Earthquake to weaken Steels for Clefable's Fire range.
Clefable also like Hazard support, breaking Dragonite's Multiscale and Focus Sashes so it can get straight to the kill, while the less common Sticky Web alleviates some speed issues and Toxic or Toxic Spikes let Clefable set up on and outstall bulky Mons.
Clefavle
Ability: Unaware
Item: Leftovers
Modest Nature
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Spe
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Moonlight
This Clefable can set-up on a decent number of set-up sweepers, especially if hazards are gone to bluff Magic Guard. After two boosts, few unboosted Special Attacker can outdamage Moonlight+Leftovers. Moonblast for STAB and Fire coverage for Steel and Grass types, Mega Venusaur still taking more damage from Fire Blast than resisted Moonblast.
EVs set to maximize physical bulk while CM bolsters offenses and Special Bulk. EVs to outspeed neutral speed Aegislash for Fire Blast and Tyranitar to heal and boost against it.
The main thing this set needs dealt with are Fire Types, especially Heatran. I like Keldeo or Gyarados for this role, as Keldeo can use Secret Sword while Gyarados can use intimidate to cover Clefable's Physical defenses, boost itself, and eat Steel Attacks, while Waterfall deals with Fire and Bounce (normal) or Ice Fang (Mega) deals with Grass types, and Earthquake to weaken Steels for Clefable's Fire range.
Clefable also like Hazard support, breaking Dragonite's Multiscale and Focus Sashes so it can get straight to the kill, while the less common Sticky Web alleviates some speed issues and Toxic or Toxic Spikes let Clefable set up on and outstall bulky Mons.
Is a full out defensive set viable for Clefable? Just seeing if this would work.
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
152 SDef /252 HP/ 100 Def
Moonblast
toxic/thunder wave
Protect/ Light Screen
Moonlight/Softboiled
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
152 SDef /252 HP/ 100 Def
Moonblast
toxic/thunder wave
Protect/ Light Screen
Moonlight/Softboiled
It might be an option, but if the intention is full defense, I'd use Cosmic Power in place of Protect/Screen if the purpose is to tank rather than pivot.
Also minor point, but Softboiled isn't compatible with Unaware.
Unaware CM Clefable is a really overrated set for some reason that I've seen brought up. It really isn't good. One overlying issue is that it just can't sweep through stuff in the same way that Magic Guard CM can. It can't afford room for Stored Power, as it needs Moonlight + Heal Bell to really be sweeping, which stops it from breaking Roar/Taunt-less Heatran, Chansey, opposing Unaware, and more. Moonlight really is just unreliable too, as in sand it recovers less and only has 8 PP. With Wish + Protect, it loses to a simple Toxic and even has trouble burnt, which forces it to utilize its recover much more often. And to top it all off, Unaware Clef doesn't need CM to do its job: serve as a hard-and-fast stop to a myriad of setup sweepers. Wish / Protect / Moonblast / {Heal Bell or TWave} is a much better set that gets more utility as a defensive Pokemon/Unaware user instead of being a crappy excuse for a sweeper.
I also wanted to bring up Cosmic Power Clefable, which simply put, is absolutely abysmal. The biggest reasoning for this is that it's way too passive. Eventually it's just gonna get critted and taken out. Even with Stored Power, it has to set up for a bunch of turns without being critted or otherwise broken. Or just Taunted/phazed. Because it simply threatens nothing. With CM, Clefable becomes a much less passive setup Pokemon, as it is able to pose a severe threat within a matter of a couple turns and is much less prone to Taunts and such because it is actually threatening offensively. I can see the responses: CP makes it UNBREAKABLE WALL. However, you have to think about it in terms of where that actually gets you: what's better, a weak sitting duck that just happens to be kinda difficult to break offensively (ignoring of course super effective, especially Steel-type, attacks that are running right through it) or a bulky and offensively threatening Pokemon? CP is the former and CM is the latter. The latter is clearly a better scenario for you; CM is miles better than CP.
I also wanted to bring up Cosmic Power Clefable, which simply put, is absolutely abysmal. The biggest reasoning for this is that it's way too passive. Eventually it's just gonna get critted and taken out. Even with Stored Power, it has to set up for a bunch of turns without being critted or otherwise broken. Or just Taunted/phazed. Because it simply threatens nothing. With CM, Clefable becomes a much less passive setup Pokemon, as it is able to pose a severe threat within a matter of a couple turns and is much less prone to Taunts and such because it is actually threatening offensively. I can see the responses: CP makes it UNBREAKABLE WALL. However, you have to think about it in terms of where that actually gets you: what's better, a weak sitting duck that just happens to be kinda difficult to break offensively (ignoring of course super effective, especially Steel-type, attacks that are running right through it) or a bulky and offensively threatening Pokemon? CP is the former and CM is the latter. The latter is clearly a better scenario for you; CM is miles better than CP.
I did. I learned to RNG and put in the time and it's really not that hard tbh. Oh the trolling I do with the set.
Leftovers
Magic Guard
Bold
252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
IV's: 4 Atk
Cosmic Power
Stored Power
Moonblast
Soft-Boiled
In the past months I have tried a lot CM + Stored Power Clefable (with Magic Guard ofc) and I have to admit that its rly strong. It's a reliable pokèmon to beat stall (with Stored Power it can actually beat M Venusaur without too many problems and Chansey takes something like 60% from Stored Power +6 +6 so yeah). Although it's less helpful against offense because of all the steel-type mons it can't beat like Mawile and Scizor without Flamethrower, therefore I tried it with Magnezone to trap-kill steel-types and I'd say that's a pretty solid core to start a team with. In general, Stored Power Clefable is rly underrated and dont want much usage (in ladder mostly, in tournaments its getting more and more usage otherwise) but it can work really well in certain teams that have some problem at breaking stall teams, while Clefable can still provide a decent checks for things like Tyranitar, Greninja and Garchomp.
Why use Stored Power when LO Clefable with Flamethrower fucks up stall just as badly and is way more useful in general thanks to being able to directly threaten Steel-types. Defensive Mega Venusaur can't beat Clefable if it comes in as Clefable uses Calm Mind anyway, and offensive Mega Venusaur 2HKOes Clefable even after a Calm Mind, while Stored Power is not strong enough just with one boost to do any significant damage back to Mega Venusaur, making Stored Power unnecessary against it. As for Chansey and Quagsire:
- 80 SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Quagsire: 199-234 (50.5 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- +6 80 SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 352-417 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
tl;dr Unless you are Suicune weak don't use Stored Power, and 80 SpA EVs + LO is the stallbreaking CM Clefable variant with the most overall utility.
I've recently fallen completely in love with the recently revamped Stealth Rock Clefable set. I got the idea perusing this thread and seeing your post from back in January, alexwolf. That with the facts that a) I got over having to have my whole team Kalos legal, b) I really really really wanted to use Cleffy, and c) just as I started trying it the set was revamped with a "more optimal" EV spread combined to make one of the best and most annoying Stealth Rock setters I've ever used before. It's frequently my lead, and can mess with the opponent badly with its surprising juice behind its attacks. My favorite part, as the analysis says, is that it can deal with most Defoggers and Rapid Spinners on its own and re-set Rocks if they got away. With Magic Guard too, it's deceptively bulky and a great status absorber for a whole game. Calm Mind for me took too long to set up, and I needed Rocks in a better teamslot, and this ol' star came with just the right tools. I don't think I'm ever changing my Rock setter - or at least not for a very long time.
For reference, this is the set I'm using (for more detail, the revamp URL is here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/clefable-stealth-rock-revamp.3514511/ ):
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Soft-Boiled
For reference, this is the set I'm using (for more detail, the revamp URL is here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/clefable-stealth-rock-revamp.3514511/ ):
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Soft-Boiled
I guess because it can actually check some threats as well. I mean, Flamethrower + LO Clefable is cool, but if you are giving 80 EVs in SAtk on it, you can't switch on Greninja anymore for example as HPumps 2HKOs or on Thundurus as Tbolt 2HKOs as well etc (while Stored Power Clefable with some investiment in SDef + Calm Nature can tank that as the following calc shows 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 165-196 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery, in this way it loses some physical bulk but thats it, being able to check both Greninja and Thundurus is huge, also because this kind of Clefable is going to be used with Magnezone and other offensive mons, and having a decent check for one of the most troublesome mons for HO teams is a great thing for an offensive team imo). Also, as I already said that Clefable doesnt need lot of support, use it with a Magnezone an you are fine, your Clefable set is more "independent" of course as it practically needs 0 support, but Stored Power Clefable is able to do almost the same things (even if it needs the steels to be removed) but it can actually act like a defensive pivot as well. Your set is rly interesting imo, and thank you for posting it here (Ive never tried it but Ill do soon I guess) but I think that Stored Power Clefable isnt inferior either, once it gets the support it needs, it has its own niches as well (as you said yourself it can beat Unaware Clefable and CM Cune quite easily), acting like as bulky pivot, which is something that Life Orb Clefable can't do due to the investiment it needs in SAtk to 2HKO Unaware Quagsire or to do a least 25% to Specially Defensive Heatran after 6 Calm Minds, and as strong stall breaker too.
I've been debating the same thing in my head. Clefable's Offensive prowess is seemingly lacking without Life Orb. But on the other hand Leftovers recovery can allowing you to keep spamming Moonblast/Stored Power while Leftovers prevents small hits from adding up and forcing you to use a turn recovering.
If you use Life Orb run Bold 252 HP/176 Def/80 SAtk. If using Leftovers run Calm 252 HP/160 Def/96 SDef.
I will admit that in general, the set I am about to post would be terrible on most teams. Nevertheless, I have had great success with this set on my stall team:
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
- Cosmic Power
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
This set destroys the momentum of any team, which in general would not be favorable. However, pure stall teams benefit from this set since they in general lack momentum, and in this atmosphere of super powerful offense, this set greatly helps wall them. For most pokemon, having two set-up moves leave not enough options for coverage moves, but the point of this set is to force out pokemon that would normally break stall, and gradually build up an offensive presence when given the opportunity (when the opponent does not have steel pokemon or toxic). From my experience, usually 2 critical hits in a row are necessary from powerful attackers to take this thing out. Obviously, this thing is hard walled by steel types, but the strength behind a stall team lies in its synergy, with each pokemon covering for the other's weaknesses. This set has its disadvantages, but I feel that it greatly helps stall teams to wall mixed threats and set-ups (it can even solo mega heracross from my experience, since each hit in a multi-hit move can only crit individually), while life orb sets cannot wall sufficiently and support threats cannot force out the opponent.
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
- Cosmic Power
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
This set destroys the momentum of any team, which in general would not be favorable. However, pure stall teams benefit from this set since they in general lack momentum, and in this atmosphere of super powerful offense, this set greatly helps wall them. For most pokemon, having two set-up moves leave not enough options for coverage moves, but the point of this set is to force out pokemon that would normally break stall, and gradually build up an offensive presence when given the opportunity (when the opponent does not have steel pokemon or toxic). From my experience, usually 2 critical hits in a row are necessary from powerful attackers to take this thing out. Obviously, this thing is hard walled by steel types, but the strength behind a stall team lies in its synergy, with each pokemon covering for the other's weaknesses. This set has its disadvantages, but I feel that it greatly helps stall teams to wall mixed threats and set-ups (it can even solo mega heracross from my experience, since each hit in a multi-hit move can only crit individually), while life orb sets cannot wall sufficiently and support threats cannot force out the opponent.
I think it's because clefable just simply looks like a fairy and also because granbull is labled as " the fairy pokemon" in the pokedex since gen 1.
AD impish john
Consumed by Darkness...
My lead fun unpredictable clefable moveset
Clefable@FocusSach/LifeOrb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 speed / 252 special attack / 4 hp
IVs: 0
Nature: Modest/Timid
-Stealth rocks
-flamethower
-calm mind
-moon blast
This is a lead clefable and you can save it for later in battle. Stealth rocks is obviously for setting up and is for hurting bug fire and flying types. Steel types wall it so i give it flamethower this meant for scizor ferrothorn excadrill magnezone ect. To make clefable more bulky i give it calm mind but it also raises special attack so clefable can hit harder. Moonblast is for STAB and works well with it. I give it focus sach so it can live and set up rocks or life orb becaues magic guard takes no damage from it. Magic Guard is also helpful because toxic stallers dont do anything to it.
Clefable@FocusSach/LifeOrb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 speed / 252 special attack / 4 hp
IVs: 0
Nature: Modest/Timid
-Stealth rocks
-flamethower
-calm mind
-moon blast
This is a lead clefable and you can save it for later in battle. Stealth rocks is obviously for setting up and is for hurting bug fire and flying types. Steel types wall it so i give it flamethower this meant for scizor ferrothorn excadrill magnezone ect. To make clefable more bulky i give it calm mind but it also raises special attack so clefable can hit harder. Moonblast is for STAB and works well with it. I give it focus sach so it can live and set up rocks or life orb becaues magic guard takes no damage from it. Magic Guard is also helpful because toxic stallers dont do anything to it.
Thought I'd bump this because I think the OR/AS meta is really taking a toll of Clef and Fairies in general. I'll bring up Clef though since she's the one I use most and I've noticed she faces a lot more troubles in the OR/AS meta than she did before and it holds her back a lot (speaking primarily of the Calm Minding set seen around so often). Hindrance No1: Mega Metagross, the less important of the two main points I noticed, Megagross muscles through Clefs like no one's business obviously, generally she could always take a hit from a Steel type and usually hit hard back and even OHKO after a +1; stuff like Magnezone and Mega Scizor ate the dick, but Megagross, especially Agility sets with bulkier builds, can switch in on a +1 Clef better than any other Steel type barring Heatran, and it hits shit-hard against it too. Megagross is the battering ram that muscles through Fairies like not much I've seen could do before without a boost.
Hindrance No2: And the one that pisses me off the most, Gunk Shot Greninja. Graninja, from what I've seen, could barely touch Clef before and just turned into set-up fodder if it tried. Now, you'd be quite barmy to leave one in on one of those fucking frogs; so not only has Clef gained a new worthy adversary, she lost one of the best opportunities to set up in the meta, Greninjas are bloody everywhere and they're all Fairy threats now. Of course she's not a shit Pokemon and falling to RU now because of these changes, but she's definitely facing some tough times ahead. So what happens now? Is Clef going to adapt to these changes? Will more viable sets appear or will she knuckle on through as she goes? Am I being retarded and have no clue what I'm talking about like I tend to more often than not?
Hindrance No2: And the one that pisses me off the most, Gunk Shot Greninja. Graninja, from what I've seen, could barely touch Clef before and just turned into set-up fodder if it tried. Now, you'd be quite barmy to leave one in on one of those fucking frogs; so not only has Clef gained a new worthy adversary, she lost one of the best opportunities to set up in the meta, Greninjas are bloody everywhere and they're all Fairy threats now. Of course she's not a shit Pokemon and falling to RU now because of these changes, but she's definitely facing some tough times ahead. So what happens now? Is Clef going to adapt to these changes? Will more viable sets appear or will she knuckle on through as she goes? Am I being retarded and have no clue what I'm talking about like I tend to more often than not?
You're certainly right that Clefable has some new obstacles in ORAS, but let's not cry doom for the old fairy just yet. Clef struggles with Metagross and the buffed Greninja a LOT, but just like the start of last gen this is a meta swarmed with setup sweepers, few of whom are better dealt with than by the Unaware CM set (who can now use 252 Bold if you're looking for a dim silver lining in the Gunk Shot cloud). Unaware Clefable is still an essential glue mon in a meta overrun by new threats who just can't break it, namely various dragons, Slowbro, Gallade, Lopunny, Sceptile, and, most importantly, Sableye. It can sweep, wall, set up rocks, spread paralysis (TW Clef is great to fuck with MegaGross/Gengar/TauntTran/Zard X switchins), peg obvious switches with fire coverage, and is still all in all one of the greater nuisances of the tier. Clef's not going anywhere.
I agree on what you said, CM and Co sets are to passive in this meta and easy to exploit with the new monsters, but unaware cliff hasn't lost its spot as a great wish Passer and utility pokemon with fairy type stab. The Cm set is no longer an easy to achieve winning condition but cliff versatility let's him glue teams and check some really annoying threats with unaware like jolly DD Gallade and other fighting pokemon, while still checking on Slowbro and sableye like it always did. Losing softboiled in favor of achieving that does hurt him against some team archetypes.
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