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OU Clefable

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Spirit, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Spirit

    Spirit
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Clefable
    ☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆
    Overview
    ########

    Generation after generation, Clefable has languished in the shadows of its many contemporaries, but no more is this the case, as Clefable's astronomical rise to OU super-stardom is attributed to its brand-spanking, new Fairy typing. Two phenomenal abilities in Magic Guard and Unaware allow it to take on a multitude of roles including an Unaware Calm Mind set, a Magic Guard Calm Mind set, a physical wall, and even a tank. With Unaware, Clefable is able to effortlessly halt a significant quantity of boosting sweepers and even use such sweepers as setup bait, whereas Magic Guard works fantastically in negating every form of residual damage, making Clefable an incredibly dangerous Pokemon for stall-based teams and nearly impossible to wear down. Furthermore, Clefable's amazing movepool—both supportively and offensively—along with its outstanding abilities allows it to perform all of its given roles incredibly well and showcases its potential to adapt in a constantly changing metagame, all the while making it the perfect glue to many teams, easily stitching the holes in teams that struggle with top-tier threats such as Azumarill, Thundurus, and the various Fighting- and Dragon-types inhabiting the OU tier. In stark contrast to how vast Clefable's movepool is, its stats pale in comparison. With not a single base stat over 100, it is quite apparent that Clefable must often specialize in only two stats in order to achieve the highest success rate for any of its sets. While Clefable's typing is unquestionably good, its mediocre defenses can only take it so far. This flaw is all the more evident when Clefable is compared to sturdier supporters such as Chansey, which, unlike Clefable, has the raw bulk to take on the likes of Mega Charizard Y. However, it is Clefable's sheer versatility that always puts its user one step ahead of the opponent and ultimately makes it the wild card of the match.

    Unaware + Calm Mind
    ########
    name: Unaware + Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Moonblast
    move 3: Moonlight / Wish
    move 4: Heal Bell/ Flamethrower / Protect
    ability: Unaware
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    nature: Bold

    Moves
    ========

    Calm Mind allows Clefable to pose as an offensive threat after a few boosts while also making it difficult to take out with special attacks. Moonblast is Clefable's most reliable STAB move that works well in wearing down many of its common switch-ins before setting up. With Wish + Protect, Clefable is able to keep itself healthy as it uses Calm Mind, while also acting as a key team player. However, despite the unappealing PP of Moonlight and its effects under sandstorm, it's also a good recovery option and has the benefit of freeing up a moveslot. In that moveslot, Heal Bell works superbly by removing the threat of Toxic as Clefable sets up and provides relief from other status afflictions for its teammates, whereas Flamethrower can prove to be especially handy when dealing with Steel-types such as Scizor, Mega Mawile, and Skarmory; it also gets the quick KO at +1 against slower Steel-types such as Ferrothorn. Moonlight also bestows Clefable with one other very notable advantage: the capability to defeat Mega Charizard Y. Due to the fact that Moonlight restores up to 66% of its overall health under sunlight, and combine that with the fact that Drought only lasts for five turns, should Clefable have attained a Calm Mind boost prior to Mega Charizard Y switching in, then it can repeatedly use Moonlight for the duration of the sun turns, thus eventually bringing it down once the weather condition dissipates. In light of alternate move options, Clefable can make use of Shadow Ball. Shadow Ball grants excellent neutral coverage in tandem with Moonblast and allows Clefable to muscle past Heatran in a more efficient fashion.

    Set Details
    ========

    Unaware is what gives this set its distinct flavor, as it allows Clefable to accomplish impressive feats by using boosted setup sweepers such as +6 Manaphy and +6 Azumarill as setup bait. With Unaware, this set is also guaranteed to come out on top versus every relevant Calm Mind user in OU. The EVs and a Bold nature maximize Clefable's Defense stat for two reasons: the first is that Calm Mind already patches up Clefable's uninvested Special Defense stat, so any Special Defense investment is just flat-out redundant, and the second is that with these EVs, it can set up a lot more comfortably against powerful physical attackers such as Dragonite, Conkeldurr, and defensive Landorus-T, while not being thrown for a loop when up against formidable Psyshock users such as Latios.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This set is meant to fulfill two simultaneous roles: a fantastic check to a multitude of setup sweepers courtesy of Unaware and a solid late-game win condition with Calm Mind. This Clefable should be played as a defensive Pokemon at the start of the match and only go for a Calm Mind sweep mid- to late-game because at that point, many of its checks and counters are properly weakened. On the other hand, with its solid defenses, it counters or checks the following setup sweepers at the earlier stages of the match: Swords Dance Talonflame, Belly Drum Azumarill, Calm Mind Suicune, Tail Glow Manaphy, Swords Dance Garchomp, Dragon Dance Mega Tyranitar, Dragon Dance Gyarados, Nasty Plot Thundurus, and many more. It's also key to note that this Clefable will always come out on top against opposing Calm Mind users, so there's little to fear when up against such threats, and in fact, it is in Clefable's best interest to set up against these types of Pokemon. While it's better to save Calm Mind for when Clefable can sweep, the move is useful in that it pumps up Clefable's Special Defense, allowing it to better deal with more powerful offensive threats such as Choice Specs Keldeo and Mega Gardevoir.

    Stall- and bulky offense-based teams are where this Clefable thrives. Most of the time, it is good to not reveal Calm Mind until the later stages of the match; in other words, fool your opponent into thinking that it's merely a defensive set, as in that case, they're less likely to play carefully with their Clefable checks due to the fact that it might not pose an offensive threat. Something to keep in mind is that it's best not to mindlessly switch Clefable into Trick users, even those that it normally counters. Likewise, when up against these threats one-on-one, it's good to scout their move with Protect should they choose to stay in. Protect is also good to use to ease pivot switching, accumulate Leftovers recovery, and in general, play mind games with your opponent. Unlike other Protect users, Clefable does not have to fear most setup sweepers, as the only thing to watch out for when using the move is giving your opponent a free turn to set up entry hazards.

    Team Options
    ========

    Keldeo aids Clefable by being able to deal with Heatran, Bisharp, and many other Steel-types; in return, Clefable easily counters Latios and Latias, two Pokemon that Keldeo struggles with. Aegislash is also a good partner, as it Pursuit-traps pesky special walls such as Chansey, while luring out both Heatran and Bisharp and then smacking the two with Sacred Sword. Furthermore, Clefable helps Aeigslash by countering Mandibuzz and effectively dealing with Garchomp. Mega Gyarados also makes for a good partner, as it deals with Heatran, Aegislash, Bisharp, and Excadrill, whereas Clefable deals with Thundurus, Rotom-W, and Fighting-types such as Conkeldurr. In addition, it provides Wish support to all its partners, thus increasing their overall longevity.

    A Pokemon that threatens to stop this set cold is Mega Venusaur; due to this, Latios and Latias work as effective partners to deal with Mega Venusaur and other less common Poison-types. In the case of Latios, it can lure out and substantially weaken Heatran and Bisharp with Earthquake, making it easier for Clefable to pull off a late-game sweep. Both of these Pokemon also provide Defog support, which is quite useful to deter the threat of entry hazards. Clefable also supports Latios and Latias by acting as a bulwark for Dark- and Dragon-type moves. While these pairs struggle a bit with Aegislash, among other Steel-types, Clefable can team up with Talonflame, a Pokemon that beats both Steel-types and Mega Venusaur. For Talonflame, Clefable deals with Rotom-W, and for all three, it works as a solid switch-in to Tyranitar.

    In terms of more stall-based partners, Clefable pairs especially well with Quagsire, Gliscor, or Hippowdon. Quagsire and Clefable form a vicious Unaware core, as Quagsire counters Mega Charizard X, Scizor, and Bisharp, all physical attackers that Clefable struggles with; meanwhile, Clefable deals with other Dragon- and Fighting-types. Hippowdon works for similar reasons, but its improved bulk allows it to beat Aegislash and be better equipped to take on Mega Mawile and Talonflame. Furthermore, Hippowdon provides Stealth Rock support, making it easier to wear down Clefable's checks. In contrast to Quagsire and Hippowdon, Gliscor functions as an effective status sponge once Toxic Orb has activated, meaning that it has an easier time switching in on the likes of Heatran and Chansey.

    Magic Guard + Calm Mind
    ########
    name: Magic Guard + Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Moonblast
    move 3: Soft-Boiled
    move 4: Flamethrower / Stored Power
    ability: Magic Guard
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    nature: Bold

    Moves
    ========

    Calm Mind bolsters Clefable's special stats, allowing it to both withstand special attacks with greater ease, as well as dish out moderately strong attacks of its own after a few boosts. Moonblast is a must with any Clefable really, as it is its most reliable STAB. Some key benchmarks to keep note of is that Clefable must have two boosts to OHKO Latias, Assault Vest Conkeldurr, and Mandibuzz. Soft-Boiled is absolutely necessary to keep replenishing Clefable's health in between setup. Flamethrower does well in melting most Steel-types; for instance, after a single boost, it OHKOes Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory. Stored Power gives Clefable some incredible stall-breaking utility, as at +6, On the other hand, Stored Power compensates where Moonblast is lacking by easily shattering Heatran, Chansey, and Mega Venusaur, as well as opposing Unaware users due to its mechanics. Lastly, Shadow Ball is a good coverage move in place of Flamethrower by providing Clefable with excellent neutral coverage alongside Moonblast; most importantly, it gives Clefable the capability to take down Heatran.

    Set Details
    ========

    The key to this set's success is via Magic Guard. With this ability, Clefable is completely uninhibited by status moves, allowing it to boost in the face of weak walls such as Chansey and Quagsire. In light of other possibilities, Clefable is able to use Magic Guard in tandem with Soft-Boiled, thus lessening the need for more convoluted healing, such as Wish + Protect. Moreover, Magic Guard's utility opens the floodgate of options by allowing Clefable to utilize moves such as Cosmic Power and items such as Life Orb without being overly subjugated to status in the case of Cosmic Power, nor nasty recoil in the case of Life Orb.

    While Life Orb might seem like a strange choice, the fact that Clefable is impervious to passive damage via Magic Guard along with its access to reliable recovery in Soft-Boiled lessens the need for Leftovers. When its attacks are boosted by a Life Orb, Clefable is able to achieve KOs it wouldn't have otherwise, such as on Latias and Conkeldurr at +1 with Moonblast. In addition, Moonblast is able to cleanly 2HKO Unaware Quagsire, essentially preventing it from outstalling Clefable. With a Life Orb, Clefable also has a better chance to come out on top versus Chansey, making it a very effective stallbreaker. On the flip-side, Leftovers makes it easier for Clefable to continually set up Cosmic Power boosts; this is especially useful when Clefable is up against more offensively-inclined teams.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This set is fairly straightforward and easy to use—have Clefable come in on a weak wall such as Rotom-W, Mandibuzz, or Chansey, and from there, it can set up Calm Mind against these threats with no concern. It's good, however, to dispose of Whirlwind and/or Roar users and remove Heatran before attempting to do this, as all these threats keep Clefable in line so long as they're healthy. As far as teams to use this Clefable on, it best fits on almost any team in need of a stallbreaker or a generally good sweeper. Do keep in mind that one of this Clefable's primary purposes is to take out stall, so it's best not to force it to assume the role of a wall itself; be cautious if you attempt to switch it into more powerful physical attackers such as Garchomp and Terrakion.

    Forcing a switch on the likes of Dragonite or doing the above is usually the best way to get off a Calm Mind boost or two. Also, should your version of Magic Guard Clefable run Cosmic Power, two boosts is the most it needs, as it prevents even Life Orb Bisharp from 2HKOing Clefable with Iron Head. Keep this in mind: don't get too greedy with boosts. Having Clefable accumulate too many boosts increases the odds of a critical hit incurring, which ends up only wasting turns and time and ultimately puts you in a bad position if Clefable is taken out this way. Oftentimes, teams carry multiple checks to Clefable, most of them being Fire-weak Steel-types. To take advantage of that, it's good to go for Flamethrower once Clefable forces a switch as opposed to Calm Mind; this way, it can take out at least one of its checks, thus making it easier to pull off a sweep later on in the match.

    Team Options
    ========

    Magic Guard Clefable is very self-sufficient and fits on almost any team, but it appreciates Pokemon that deal with Heatran, and to a lesser extent, Bisharp. Keldeo and Quagsire are perfect partners, given their ability to easily plow through or wall both of these Pokemon respectively and work as solid switch-ins. While Keldeo and Quagsire do indeed have good synergy with Clefable, Heatran and Bisharp are unlikely to stay in on them; as such, it's better to pair Clefable with a Pokemon that lures out both of these threats and nails them on the switch. One such notable example is Earthquake Latios, which does a colossal amount of damage to the two Steel-types should they be foolish enough to directly come in.

    Physically Defensive
    ########
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Moonblast
    move 2: Wish
    move 3: Protect
    move 4: Heal Bell / Thunder Wave / Stealth Rock
    ability: Unaware
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Bold

    Moves
    =======

    Moonblast is Clefable's compulsory STAB, as its great neutral coverage and solid Base Power does well in wearing down bulky targets such as Rotom-W. With Wish + Protect, Clefable works as a solid Wish passer for stall- and balanced-based teams. Protect also does well in garnishing Leftovers recovery, allowing a worn-out Clefable to avoid a potential 2HKO. Heal Bell allows Clefable to act as a reliable cleric; therefore, it permits Clefable's offensive teammates to play a bit more aggressively, as the threat of status is watered down to a significant degree. On the other hand, Thunder Wave is fantastic on Clefable by crippling setup sweepers it has difficulty KOing such as Mega Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados, and immobilizing common switch-ins such as Mega Charizard Y and Gengar, thus creating an advantageous situation for its teammates. However, should your team lack a dedicated Stealth Rock user, then Clefable can perform this role exceptionally well given its ability to force switches and discourage several common Defog users such as Latios and Mandibuzz from coming in and removing the entry hazard.

    Toxic may be used in the last slot to cripple Hippowdon, Zapdos, Volcarona, Talonflame, and bulky Mega Charizard X. Just be wary that many of Clefable's other switch-ins are completely unfazed by Toxic, as they are either Poison- or Steel-types. Moonlight is an option over Wish + Protect so that Clefable acquires an extra moveslot to support its teammates, although the low PP and dilution under sandstorm makes this move a rather high opportunity cost, especially when taking into account that this Clefable needs all the PP it can get when it's up against opposing stall teams.

    Set Details
    ========

    The set is geared more towards physical defense, as it allows Clefable to better deal with the likes of Garchomp and Terrakion. Should your team have a proper way of dealing with boosting sweepers, Clefable may forgo Unaware in exchange for Magic Guard. Due to its immunity to all forms of passive damage, Magic Guard Clefable makes for a much more efficient Wish passer. Magic Guard also gives Clefable more flexibility in its moveslots, as it can now run Soft-Boiled for recovery, giving it an extra moveslot to support its teammates with or utilize a coverage move such as Flamethrower. Do note, however, that the entire allure towards using defensive Clefable is to remove the threat of setup sweepers; you'll find that by forgoing Unaware, not only does Clefable lose the ability to counter Pokemon it's supposed to, but its sheer passiveness allows a multitude of bulky threats to set up on it.

    A specially defensive spread is a viable alternative, as it allows Clefable to hard-counter Greninja, all variants of Nasty Plot Thundurus, and Tail Glow Manaphy while still having enough bulk to comfortably wall the likes of Conkeldurr and better deal with Keldeo, Sludge Wave-less Landorus, and Life Orb Deoxys-S. The only issue with such a spread is that Clefable struggles to tank physical attacks more easily, thus reducing the overall pool of Pokemon it normally beats. In particular, Garchomp's Earthquake and Latios's Psyshock will do a sizable chunk, so much so that Clefable should only switch in with the utmost prudence.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Defensive Clefable best fits on balanced or stall teams in need of cleric and/or Wish Support. Clefable's ability to check or counter the likes of Garchomp, Manaphy, Thundurus, Swords Dance Talonflame, Mega Tyranitar, Azumarill, Kyurem-B, Dragonite, Latios, Conkeldurr, Terrakion, Suicune, and Breloom, as well as soft-check many other set up sweepers courtesy of its defensive typing and Unaware, makes it invaluable on these sorts of teams. Clefable is best brought out to check the above threats and may be done so at nearly any moment of the match.

    When up against offensive teams, Clefable is able to force many switches; as such, this is the best time to fire off a Thunder Wave to cripple the opposing switch-in or lay Stealth Rock on the field. Keep in mind that if Clefable's health is around 50% upon switching into a certain threat, then it's better to simply recover at that moment so that Clefable can continue to check the Pokemon in question. Also, due to its low PP, Heal Bell is to be used sparingly, especially when up against opposing stall teams where the cleric's role is invaluable in winning the status war. It's good to keep in mind, however, that unlike Heal Bell, it's advisable for Clefable to use Protect to scout for certain coverage options such as an Iron Head from Kyurem-B or accumulate Leftovers recovery in order to avoid a possible 2HKO from Terrakion's Life Orb-boosted Stone Edge, among other attacks.

    Team Options
    ========

    In terms of defensive partners, Clefable works quite well with the following: Mega Venusaur, Quagsire, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T. Clefable provides Heal Bell support to all four, which is much appreciated given that the above Pokemon detest burns; in return, Quagsire, Landorus-T, and Hippodown help check Steel-types such as Heatran, Excadrill, Mega Scizor, and Bisharp, whereas Mega Venusaur easily deals with Keldeo and some of the previously mentioned Steel-types.

    More offensively-inclined partners include Mega Medicham, Mega Gyarados, and Conkeldurr. Due to Clefable's vulnerability to Steel-types and to a lesser extent, Poison-types, the above Pokemon are useful in more ways than one. Mega Medicham easily destroys any Steel-type with its STAB-boosted High Jump Kick and slaughters Mega Venusaur with Zen Headbutt. Just like Mega Medicham, Conkeldurr also helps deal with Steel-types, but it also takes down Gengar thanks to its meaty defenses and Guts ability, which allow it to easily tank a Shadow Ball and take advantage of Will-O-Wisp. Lastly, Mega Gyarados forces out many of Clefable's checks and proceeds to set up. It goes without saying that Clefable can also aid the Pokemon in question; for instance, Clefable provides cleric support for the former two and Wish support to all three, all the while keeping Latios in line for Conkeldurr and Mega Medicham and Thundurus for Mega Gyarados.

    Tank
    ########
    name: Tank
    move 1: Moonblast
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Thunder Wave
    move 4: Soft-Boiled
    ability: Magic Guard
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    nature: Modest

    Moves
    ========

    Backed by a Life Orb and maximum Special Attack investment, Moonblast deals a surprising amount of damage, easily 2HKOing most Quagsire, Rotom-W, and Hippowdon. Fire Blast on the other hand OHKOes almost every OU Steel-type. Thunder Wave allows Clefable to cripple Gengar, Mega Charizard Y, and other common switch-ins, while acting as an emergency check if need be to Keldeo and Greninja. Soft-Boiled keeps Clefable healthy, allowing it to continually batter through defensive walls and recover in between attacking. Thunderbolt may be used over Thunder Wave, as it OHKOes Talonflame and Mega Charizard-Y after Stealth Rock, as well as giving Clefable the opportunity to beat defensive Heatran one-versus-one. Psychic is also viable, as it allows Clefable to lure out and OHKO Gengar and 2HKO Mega Venusaur and other Poison-types. Hidden Power Ground may be used to lure out Heatran and easily 2HKO every variant after Stealth Rock.

    Set Details
    ========

    Magic Guard is chosen as the main ability in order to nullify Life Orb recoil, thus giving Clefable the perfect median of power and durability alongside its high Base Power coverage moves and access to reliable recovery in Soft-Boiled. The maximum Special Attack investment allows Clefable to pack a punch, which in tandem with the HP investment, permits Clefable to easily tank most attacks and strike back hard. Speed investment is an option in order for Clefable to get the jump on fast defensive threats such as Mandibuzz and Skarmory to KO them before they Defog, but between Thunder Wave and the fact that Clefable really needs every bit of bulk it can get its grubby little hands on to make the set function, it really isn't worth it most of the time.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This Clefable's main purpose is to simply weave in and out of the match sponging weak or resisted hits, recover over the course of this ordeal, all the while throwing out Life Orb-boosted attacks in order to wear down the opposition for its teammates. Because of its Magic Guard ability, its minimal dependency on Speed, and the fact that it doesn't use physical attacks, this Clefable works as a fantastic status-sponge for bulky offensive teams, easily coming in to sponge burns from weak Scald users such as Quagsire, Will-O-Wisp from Mega Charizard X, Toxic from Chansey, and Thunder Wave from Thundurus. Furthermore, due to its immunity to passive damage and sheer defiance to go down in the face of weak attacks and status, it also solidly switches in on most defensive Pokemon and takes anything they have to throw at it.

    Basically, between its solid bulk, good resistances, strong attacks, and Thunder Wave, this Clefable is meant to be played via short-term strategic goals by not targeting the Pokemon it is currently up against, but rather, the one meant to come in and check it. In doing so, Clefable can eventually cripple or even take out most of its checks mid-game, paving the way for a Pokemon that shares similar counter-measures to sweep.

    Team Options
    ========

    Stealth Rock support is highly appreciated, as it makes it easier for Clefable to do its job of wearing down the opposing team's offensive and defensive Pokemon alike. Stealth Rock Landorus and Garchomp are both very good offensive partners that set entry hazards and aid Clefable in breaking down the opposing team. Clefable aids Landorus by being able to deal with almost all of its checks, such as Mandibuzz and Rotom-W, and in the case of Garchomp, Clefable lures out Skarmory and OHKOes it with Fire Blast and lures out opposing Clefable, 2HKOing them with a Life Orb-boosted Moonblast.

    Luring in Steel-types and bulky defensive Pokemon and smashing them to pieces is what this Clefable does best, so Pokemon that benefit from the removal of such threats will greatly appreciate its partnership. Swords Dance Mega Scizor in particular benefits greatly with the removal of Aegislash and a weakened Rotom-W. Slow sweepers such as Manaphy, Mega Mawile, and Belly Drum Azumarill also appreciate Clefable's paralysis support. Manaphy is a very good partner in general, as it can boost to +3 via Tail Glow and smash Mega Venusaur, as well as many of Clefable's other checks, with Psychic.

    Other Options
    ########

    Clefable has a slew of other supportive and disruptive tactics, including Encore, Healing Wish, Trick + Flame Orb, Magic Coat, Counter, and Cosmic Power. Encore works effectively with Magic Guard variants by halting boosting sweepers; it is also useful for locking slower entry hazard setters into one move. However, Clefable should best stick to Unaware if it wants to combat boosting sweepers, and outside of the previously mentioned application, Encore has limited use. Healing Wish can be a game-changing move on more offensively-based teams by restoring the health of an injured sweeper, although sacrificing Clefable is generally imprudent given its vital role as a team player. Trick + Flame Orb in tandem with Magic Guard is a great way to cripple many of Clefable's common switch-ins such as Bisharp, Excadrill, and Scizor, among others. Another way Clefable can become even more of an annoyance is with Magic Coat, as it deflects entry hazards from the Deoxys formes and gives faster Taunt users a taste of their own medicine. Counter also finds use by getting a surprise KO on physical attackers that want to try their luck with Clefable, but this option is an immediate giveaway and subsequent waste if used carelessly. Cosmic Power may be used on the Calm Mind sets to ease set up, but lacks any other use outside of that. Keep in mind that sets geared towards accumulating multiple Cosmic Power boosts in tandem with Stored Power are a complete waste of Clefable's potential.

    In regard to more offensive options, Clefable's vast offensive movepool includes Focus Blast, Charge Beam, Ice Beam, Seismic Toss, and Knock Off. Focus Blast may be used over Flamethrower on the Calm Mind sets to break past Heatran, but its low PP and unappealing accuracy might be a turnoff. Charge Beam may also be used to simultaneously attack and potentially bestow Clefable with a Special Attack boost, but it is laughably weak. Ice Beam works effectively by destroying Gliscor, Zapdos, and Landorus-T, but it has limited use outside of that. Seismic Toss is an option on the defensive sets for a consistent damaging move. Lastly, Knock Off's disruptive shenanigans work well in crippling many of Clefable's opponents, but again, it is quite weak.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Bulky Taunt users**: In order to take Clefable down, Taunt users that naturally outspeed it are necessary to both keep Clefable from supporting its teammates and grab multiple Calm Mind boosts. Heatran, Mew, specially defensive Talonflame, and Deoxys-D easily come in on just about every one of Clefable's attacks; prevent it from boosting, spreading status, or recovering via Taunt; recover off any damage they might have attained upon switching in; and slowly but surely, wear Clefable down with their own attacks. However, the latter three are instantaneously crippled by an incoming Toxic on the switch, though the only thing that stops Taunt Heatran from countering Clefable is a surprise coverage move specifically aimed to beat it.

    **Poison-types**: Clefable's most notable check is Mega Venusaur, as it easily switches in on all of Clefable's standard attacks and 2HKOes it with Sludge Bomb; however, Clefable can muscle through it with the Calm Mind set. Other checks are Amoonguss, Gengar, and Scolipede. Amoonguss only has to watch out for a Life Orb-boosted Fire Blast; otherwise, it's a solid check to Clefable for reasons similar to Mega Venusaur, but in contrast, it does not lose to the Calm Mind sets because of Clear Smog. In the case of Gengar and Scolipede, neither of them enjoy switching in on a Fire-type move, but should they get in safely, they can easily destroy Clefable with their STAB-boosted Poison-type attacks.

    **Steel-types**: Just about every offensive Steel-type checks Clefable fairly well by virtue of their natural type advantage and brute strength. These Pokemon include Aegislash, Bisharp, Mega Mawile, Mega Scizor, and Excadrill. However, it is precautionary that all these avoid directly switching in on Clefable, as it frequently carries a Fire-type move that 3HKOes them at the very least or, as in a few cases, OHKOes them at a moment's notice.
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  2. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    On the offensive CM set you say:
    But you need only 164 Spe EVs to outrun min Speed Goodra, Heatran, and Mandibuzz. But, why do you even need to outspeed them? Mandibuzz has nothing on you and gets OHKOed by Moonblast anyway, so it's never switching into Clefable, and Goodra can do little after a Calm Mind while you can just boost on its face or 2HKO with +1 Moonblast. Finally, SpD Heatran walls you and Roars you out, while offensive Heatran usually carries Flash Cannon, which 2HKOes you even after a Calm Mind boost. So, i really don't think that all this Speed is needed; your best option would be to use enough Speed to outrun min Speed Politoed before it can Encore you or use Perish Song and OHKO it with Thunderbolt, and for that you only need 84 Spe EVs, meaning that the best EV spread would be 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe with Modest.
  3. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Made the change.
  4. Namso

    Namso
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    Just gonna look at the sets themselves.

    I would personally drop Stealth Rock on the specially defensive set. Clefable needs to either support its team with reliable cleric support or neuter offensive/defensive threats with Toxic. Stealth Rock is better done by a vast amount of other users and Clefable shouldn't be one of them. You can mention it in the set comments.

    Slash Magic Guard with Unaware as well, it's still a perfectly viable and effective option if you are running Toxic. If not, Unaware is better because of Aromatherapy curing you of status and stuff.

    Offensive Calm Mind really isn't appealing to me right now. You're too slow, you aren't that bulky without maxing out defenses, and I think it's just gonna be too difficult to pull off a sweep like that, especially since you might not even be running recovery. The defensive Calm Mind set seems more appealing and you basically get the same sweeping effect out of it, except you do it more reliably.

    Cosmic Power set looks kind of weird too, but I know some QC members like it I believe. I think it's just the moveset itself that's a little quirky.

    I'll leave that for now.
  5. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    The cosmic power set it is so passive that damn near anything that sets up, such as lucario, dragonite, scizor, gyarados and such have their way with you. Due to this, unaware is practically compulsory so that you dont get swept trying to set up. But, then the set is so vulnerable to toxic because the turns it takes to actually do any damage far exceed the turns it takes for toxic to do 100% damage. Both set up sweepers and toxic users are pretty damn common. Personally, I dont find it viable like this.
  6. Spirit

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    Okay, so I addressed both of the above. I made the Cosmic Power set w/just Rest Talk and Unaware; that should solve the above problems. I put moonblast in set details i suppose ?_?

    Fuzznip, I don't really agree on Magic Guard getting a slash on specially defensive, mostly b/c special boosting sweepers walk all over and then there's the fact that florges and sylveon would sorta outclass it otherwise.

    I also changed the set order and left Offensive cm in hide tags in case any qc members think it's worth it.
  7. Chillarmy

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    A couple of things about the first second set bother me. Foremost, why Toxic slashed in the final slot? Fairies in general are Steel-bait, and despite its expansive movepool, Clefable is no exception to this; Clefable can take out most of what it's supposed to check with Moonblast. I suppose that now it can't beat... Volcarona, but there are certainly other better options worth the slash. Fire Blast, for example, claps many of Clefable's common switch-ins, making it less likely to get setup on; though... I'd sooner prefer to see Softboiled slashed with Aromatherapy. Softboiled prevents Clefable from losing to stall (WW / Roar beat Protect, so all the opposing player has to to is wear Clefable down and continuously switch in their phazer to prevent it from healing), and allows it to, more frequently, remain at a comfortable amount of HP. Granted, Clefable won't be able to make use of Unaware, but Magic Guard is still an amazing ability, and it gives Clefable a fighting chance against most stall teams.

    Second, why is specially defensive the preferred spread? Unaware is generally more effective against physical attackers like Terrakion, Dragonite Garchomp, Mega Lucario, etc. Even without heavy Special Defense investment, Clefable can overcome most of the special attackers it's supposed to be checking (I suppose that LO Volcarona can smash through now, but, hey, Heatran has pretty good synergy with Clefable anyway). Moreover, withou def investment, Clefable will also lose to Psyshock Lati@s, which is kinda sad.

    Taking into consideration how quickly boosting physical attackers can gain momentum on most [stall] teams, I... I just don't see much of a point in going so overboard with the SDef investment.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  8. Spirit

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    B/c you don't want to be caught in 50 turn+ stall war with opposing walls that have recovery? That's pretty intuitive honestly. And I'd rather not use Fire Blast on something defensive anyway. Maybe Flamethrower, but honestly Toxic is pretty needed to wear these types of threats out. I'd rather not spend a billion turns trying to beat things like Jellicent and Hippowdon.

    It doesn't really lose to stall? The situation you're describing almost never happens. Why would they Roar / WW against Clefable anyway, especially when there's the possibility that they may risk taking a Toxic / Flamethrower to the face.

    B/c having two physically defensive spreads is redundant? Plus it's useful to beat stuff like LO Keldeo and Greninja. Basically anything with 110 base SpA + a Life Orb can 2HKO non specially defensive spreads. I could go on, but you get the point.

    I appreciate your commentary, but none of it is particularly useful. =/
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  9. Cshadow

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    I just want to say that this is the silliest way to reason for something. A spread is efficient or inefficient. It doesn't matter how many times a spread is repeated so long as the moveset(s) are functionally different.

    EDIT: This was a stupid thing to say and I understand what he was getting at now by saying this. I was in a bad mood and jumped the gun a bit. My bad. I have a better understanding of what the Specially Defensive set aims to achieve with that spread now~
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  10. Namso

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    Just coming in to say to cut the sass, as that helps no one. Consider the suggestions being put on the table, and agree or disagree in a respectful manner.

    I'll take a look at this again tomorrow. I call on other QC members to give their input here in the mean time.

    Thanks.
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  11. alexwolf

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    Icecream stop dismissing very relevant points presented by Chillarmy. There are many common phazers, such as SpD Heatran, Hippo, and Skarmory, which stop cold the recovery of Wish Clefable. If Clefable is annoying enough to the opponent, then the opponent can certainly take the risk of his Hippowdon getting Toxiced or his Skarmory eating a Flametrhower, if it means denying to Clefable her recovery and allowing your sweepers to get past her. Softboiled prevents this from happening. Similarly, a spread with enough Defense to be able to wall certain physical/mixed attackers, such as Latias, Dragonite, and SD Mega Lucario, defintely has merits and is worth consideration.

    So what we need to find out is whether Softboiled and a more physically defensive spread are worth putting in the main set or just in the set comments.
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  12. Spirit

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    alexwolf, my problem with that suggestion is that by using Soft-Boiled, you lose the ability to counter very relevant set up sweepers such as Nasty Plot Thundurus and Tail Glow manaphy (you have to forgo unaware), which is the whole point of even using the special spread. Even if the opponent takes the risk with Skarmory, they only have one shot as doing so because of how much a Flamethrower would do. That's not even mentioning how that sort of attempt can back fire in their face if a weakened sweeper or something is brought in and gets the wish recovery on an almost dead skarmory or a crippled wall, etc. It's a very risky and situational way to handle clefable, which is why I don't really endorse that sort of thing. I'm open, however, to a more optimal spread if anyone has any ideas. I'm fine with soft-boiled getting a mention in the set comments for being more reliable i guess, but I really detest that "point" for the reasons above. I'm not opposed to constructive criticism, I find the helpful actually. It's just that those points aren't every well thought out imo.
  13. Cshadow

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    Is there any particular reason that slashing or AC'ing Moonlight couldn't solve that particular issue? Moonlight may not be as reliable as Softboiled, but the nerf to Sand and Rain make this less significant, and it allows Clefable to keep Unaware (and check / counter all the same Pokemon it is supposed to check / counter).
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
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  14. Namso

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    Okay, talked with QC about this. We have decided the following:

    Rename the Defensive Calm Mind set to just Calm Mind.

    Add a physically defensive set with Unaware and make it the second set. Physically defensive Clefable is one of the better sets, being able to check a plethora of scary boosting physical attackers, including Mega Lucario.

    Remove the Cosmic Power set and move it to OO, it's not that good and Clefable is better off using Calm Mind usually.

    Rest of the sets are fine.

    No mentions of Moonlight. It only has 8 PP and sand is still prevalent. Wish + Protect is still best on Unaware sets.
  15. Spirit

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  16. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    QC APPROVED 1/3
  17. nmitchell890

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    Clefable lures more steel types I drink cans of booze. This thing needs Flamethrower or Fire Blast in my experience to stand a chance.
  18. Tainic

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    IIRC Unware also permits Clefable to win Calm Mind wars against things like Reuniclus or Lati@s, as it ignores the SDef Boosts, it should be mentioned somewhere in the boosting sets.
  19. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Definitely don't forget to mention the perks of Unaware and Magic Guard and when the player should select to use them.

    - Unaware catches most opposing Calm Mind users off-guard as well as some offensive threats that you mentioned
    - Magic Guard ensures protection against Leech Seed, residual burn and Toxic damage, and of course a few other things you mentioned

    For Calm Mind mention Shadow Ball IMO. Ghost + Fairy has unresisted coverage barring Pyroar and allows Clefable to bypass Heatran (this can matter in some match-ups - not always but some). You still hit other targets pretty hard too. For example Steels don't resist Shadow Ball aside from Bisharp and you still hit threats like Reuniclus and Jirachi super effectively.

    Physical and Special Defensive sets confuse me. Not so much because of the EVs and such - but the movesets.

    Physically Defensive
    ########
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Moonblast
    move 2: Wish / Soft-Boiled
    move 3: Protect / Flamethrower
    move 4: Aromatherapy / Toxic
    ability: Unaware / Magic Guard
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe

    Specially Defensive
    ########
    name: Specially Defensive
    move 1: Wish
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Moonblast
    move 4: Aromatherapy / Toxic
    ability: Unaware
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 244 SpD / 12 Spe

    Exactly what justifies the difference in movesets between the two of them? The second set definitely looks cleaner; however, I would imagine that the options listed in Physically Defensive work on Specially Defensive as well. I would choose between the movesets on what to use. And honestly making Unaware as the main ability is probably better in these scenarios - you don't want boosting sweepers to really bypass Clefable and its defenses are not necessarily that suitable for the metagame (they're decent, but nothing that screams spectacular).

    Go into a little detail with Encore being able to stop boosting sweepers; especially those reliant on Substitute and they can be taken advantage of. Both Unaware and Magic Guard can take advantage of situations of Encoring certain attacks for free switch-ins on your team.

    I would like to stamp this, but before I do I would like a little more input on QC with the Defensive Sets and possibly if Encore should be in Moves on both of these sets or left in OO (I'm leaning towards the latter). The abilities are also questionable since the two sets are inconsistent.

    I'm not a huge fan of the Tank set personally. I'll have to ask QC members on this one too.
  20. Spirit

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    The difference in movesets is the ability. Unaware is illegal with Soft-Boiled so you have to resort to wish + protect to use it, and seeing as how the abilities are slashed that's why the set looks that way as well. =/

    If QC decides no Magic Guard on physical clefable, it'll make it look "cleaner" I guess.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
  21. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Talked a bit on IRC. I'm okay with the defensive sets - just mention stuff like how Magic Guard avoids being 2HKOed by Specs Psyshock from Latios.

    I'm iffy on the Tank set but... it seems alright. I mean it's not like Clefable hits like a pansy with Life Orb and max SpA investment. It definitely suffers in tanking attacks a bit easier, though.
    [​IMG]
    QC 2/3
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
  22. CyclicCompound

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    Just one big thing I noticed about your analysis. I'm not QC, so take what I say with a grain of salt if you so desire, but in my opinion this needs to be rectified.

    Ummm... Not true. Heatran (particularly the specially defensive variant, which is the most common) is near-guaranteed to beat every single Clefable set mentioned, because, simply put, Clefable can barely dent it. Out of all of the sets posted, here's the most Clefable will ever be doing to Heatran:

    252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 79-94 (20.4 - 24.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

    And that's not even factoring in that Heatran has Protect to stall for even more recovery.

    Heatran is unfazed by Toxic, laughs at Moonblast, is immune to Flamethrower, and will Roar Clefable out at the first sign of setup. The ONLY situation in which Heatran would not win would be if Heatran is facing the CM variant and Clefable is the last Pokemon standing, nullifying Roar—however, this is highly unlikely and doesn't stop Heatran from essentially hard-countering Clefable in every other scenario. I'd advise you put more mention of Heatran throughout your entire analysis—for example, mentioning in Team Options teammates that are good at taking Heatran down or switching into it. I'd go as far as mentioning it in the overview, considering Heatran is such a dominant force in the metagame (6th most used, found on a little over 15% of all teams). However, again, I'm not QC, so do whatever you think informs the reader best without cluttering it up. But I do think that Heatran warrants a lot more attention, considering all of the points highlighted above.
  23. Spirit

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    Yes it is.

    Because Protect + Leftovers can only oust Thunderbolt for so long. That's not even counting the fact that heatran might take previous damage from rocks or another attack which makes it even easier to take out. Realistically, Heatran will go down sooner or later; even one vs one it will lose if the clefable user is competent. It can't outstall and recover more than thunderbolt can damage it, it will lose. The spd heatran in particular is the one the offensive set doesn't care much for b/c it can eventually beat it. Although, I don't think it's a bad idea to mention how annoying Heatran is. So thanks for that.

    And this is all assuming that clefable doesn't bother to run anything else on its standard sets, lol.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
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  24. CyclicCompound

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    It's not that Heatran beats Clefable—like you said, it doesn't. But it's still an immediate stop to Clefable should it carry Roar, which lets the opponent's team essentially not have to care about Clefable since Heatran is an extremely reliable temporary solution. Plus, you're giving Heatran a free switch-in, so you have to account for the fact that Heatran can proceed to be a nuisance to the rest of your team, should it desire. That's where you need to add stuff in team options that can easily take on Heatran.

    Also, your point about wearing down Heatran is extremely valid. Heatran is one of the easiest Pokemon to wear out, by virtue of Stealth Rock, Knock Off, so on and so forth... however, it's not enough to simply expect Heatran to be worn out. I would add mention of the things that wear Heatran out. Think about it this way: in order to beat Heatran, you need to wear Heatran out faster than the rest of your opponent's team wears you out—doing that requires support that again comes in the form of teammates.
  25. Rope-A-Dope

    Rope-A-Dope

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    A bulky set w/LO is the set I've been using lately and it has been to great success. I've been using Calm Mind in the 4th moveslot on the physically defensive set ^^. The EV spread allows Clefable to take most neutral physical hits well enough set up a Calm Mind or two and become a defensive monster on both sides of the spectrum while being able to fire off powerful attacks. With enough Calm Minds and Wish/Soft-Boiled recovery this set can beat most Heatran sets one-on-one.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014

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