It's not 70%, it is 67% minimum.70% minimum is still shaky ground, though. What if Slowbro had to take on a Dragonite or something earlier in the match and didn't get a chance to Slack Off? Even with regenerator, relying on Pokemon to be in good health all the time is dodgy. Cloyster is pretty tough to check thanks to the ability to go Hydro Pump or Razor Shell along with that retarded defense. It's usually best to either carry a faster revenge killer or some solid priority, even if you have a defensive check. Cloyster still has a tough time setting up on a lot of popular Pokemon, though, and it's a lot less threatening if it does not have Rain support.
I kept meaning to try defensive Cloyster back when I played OU, but I never got around to it. If I ever come back it's right up there on my "try this" list.
He is not a check, he is a counter, and one of the best to Cloyster. Of 'course Slowbro will fail to take on Cloyster sometime because he will be weakened from another threat, or because a crit will happen, but this is true for any counter to any pokemon, so i don't see why people keep bringing it up... It's in the player's hand to see what threatens him the most in the opposing team, and value his pokes accordingly.I'm not saying that Slowbro cannot beat Cloyster, because that's untrue; in most cases, yes, he will probably come out on top. However, he should not be the sole Cloyster check on a team, because there are situations in which he WILL be killed. The only team that really dgas at all about Cloyster is special HO, since GL setting Cloyster up on any special attacker not locked into HP Ice and surviving the 1+ Vacuum wave special HO is going to carry. I remember the last time I used Cloyster I had times when versus Physical HO I'd smash on Dnites Outrage after Scizor was dead and just clean sweep. That defense is ridiculous. Mew, Lucario and Infernape at least can all carry Vaccum Wave, although Mew needs Modest and a Life Orb to always KO with SR on the field and can never KO without it. Still, it's special HO. Cloyster can't do shit even with screens.
This is untrue. Even with 252 Adamant Conkeldurr and Cloyster taking Stealth Rock damage, Conkeldurr cannot OHKO a -1 Cloyster with Mach Punch. Scizor is even worse off, and Luke needs Vaccuum Wave.The abundance of Scizor/Lucario/Conkeldurr makes him virtually unusable
Usage does not affect if the Pokemon is a counter or not here. If your argument was true, all Pokemon that aren't countered by the top ten Pokemon have no counters.There is an issue with slowbro being a counter, that is the fact that is not exactly common, as such cloyster can often blow through unprepared teams. That being said cloyster is a hit or miss pokemon it will either do nothing or smash the opponent up.
In either case, he switches in, he's killed the next turn.Except that a +2 LO Hydro Pump in rain does 67,01%-79,19%, which is never a ohko even after SR + 1 layer of Spikes, after Lefties recovery.
Which is why you switch in on the Shell Smash. I have no idea why you would let them set up and then go to your counter.In either case, he switches in, he's killed the next turn.
He slacks off, cloyster outdamages
He switches, something else dies
See the pattern?
I used to run a Specially Defensive Empoleon, as it made a good Special Tank. I always had a jolly time switching in on Cloyster knowing it can't KO it with anything, and then I retaliate with Grass Knot.Empoleon completly shuts down the standard Shell Smash/ Icicle Spear/ Rock Blast/ Hydro Pump set unless its carrying something unexpected. Having said that Empoleon is only spotted once in a blue moon in OU
The question is, what is slowbro going to do to cloyster after he takes 60-70%?Which is why you switch in on the Shell Smash. I have no idea why you would let them set up and then go to your counter.
Yeah?The question is, what is slowbro going to do to cloyster after he takes 60-70%?
Psychic?
yeah he is!The question is, what is slowbro going to do to cloyster after he takes 60-70%?
Psychic?
We were talking about LO Cloyster, which gets ohkoed 100% of the time with Psychic after a Shell mash, while White Herb variants require SR as you said, and only do 51%-60% to Slowbro in rain at +2 with HP.ohkos with rocks, most of the time without them
No it can't.Looks like dealing with Cloyster isn't all that easy...
The Slowbro argument aside,
I've recently come to realise that Mamoswine can switch in on Cloyster when Shell Smashing and beat it with EQ/superpower followed by an ice shard.
You must had accidentaly put a + SpA nature, since the calc you showed is for 4 SpA Modest Cloyster. 4 SpA Cloyster at +2, in rain, with LO, does exactly 66.75 - 78.42% to 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro, which means that Slowbro comfortably survives. Also if you see the calcs i did a while before, you will see that the combination of Hydro Pump and LO and rain and the accuracy of HP, amounts to a ~1% chance of Slowbro getting hit from such an attack, according to the moveset statistics.just pointing out that with a Life Orb and Rain (which im assuming is up considering you are running Keldo), Hydro Pump is doing 74.3 - 87.61% according to a honko calc. Again, not really the "best" counter out there.
I have been using Cloyster a lot lately, and its really fun. Its great atm since everyone is running Gliscor to check Terrakion (which Cloyster can set up on) and it scares out Dragonite / Mence / Landorus etc etc. Its pretty darn good, and Hydro Pump under Rain smashes shit like Skarmory and Bronzong which people switch in, expecting to wall or weaken, and then get owned. I am not denying it has its weaknesses, but when it sets up, its usually taking a pokemon or three down with it.
You are right. I must've been oblivious to Mamo's water weakness.No it can't.
Jolly +2 Icicle Spear vs 4/0 Mamoswine = 109.39% - 128.73%
edit: oh, Thick Fat I guess but Thick Fat Mamo is terrible...
double edit: 'water attack'