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Cloyster done

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Danilo, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. Danilo

    Danilo
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    [Overview]

    <p>Cloyster is in a sticky situation in ADV OU, as it faces stiff competition from other Spikes users. Skarmory, while lacking Rapid Spin, resists nearly every physical attacking type, possesses a workable Special Defense stat, has a great movepool, and is immune to Spikes. Forretress has arguably the best defensive typing in the game, Rapid Spin, a decent Special Defense stat, and an excellent movepool. On the other hand, Cloyster has a mediocre defensive typing, giving it a weakness to a plethora of common physical attacks in OU, such as Rock Slide and Focus Punch, and special attacks such as Thunderbolt. Additionally, Cloyster has a terrible Special Defense stat; as a result, Cloyster is forced to run a ton of Special Defense EVs to even hope to take even a resisted Surf. Furthermore, Cloyster has a terrible HP stat which hinders its ability to survive throughout the battle. So, you might now wonder, why does Cloyster deserve a spot on my team? In comparison to all of the other Rapid Spin users in ADV OU, Cloyster possesses the best mixed offensive stats. With access to a powerful STAB Ice Beam and an Explosion coming off of a base 95 Attack stat, Cloyster is sure to deal some damage while supporting your team. Additionally, Cloyster beats all other Rapid Spin users in OU, with the exception of Starmie, due to its good Special Attack stat and excellent Defense stat. Also, Cloyster's lack of Steel typing prevents Magneton from trapping it, giving your team a huge advantage over offensive teams using Magneton to trap and destroy other Spikes users such as Forretress and Skarmory. Finally, Cloyster's offensive typing lets it defeat the threats that Skarmory is forced to Whirlwind away. Despite its flaws, Cloyster certainly deserves to be considered for a spot on more offensive teams in need of Spikes and Rapid Spin support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Explosion / Surf
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Lax
    evs: 252 HP / 162 Def / 80 SpA / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Cloyster's most common and viable set. Spikes is what sets Cloyster apart from defensive Water-types such as Swampert, Milotic, and Starmie; Spikes almost always gives you an advantage over your opponent by turning 3HKOs into 2HKOs and making Explosion even deadlier. Rapid Spin is another one of the few advantages Cloyster has over some other bulky Water-types and Skarmory, as it ensures that your team will not be punished for switching. Ice Beam is a strong STAB move that lets Cloyster defeat Salamence immediately rather than phaze it out and deal with it later on in the battle. Additionally, Ice Beam is also useful for hitting Zapdos that might switch into Cloyster; however, Cloyster should not be staying in on Zapdos for fear of Thunderbolt. The last moveslot should be tailored towards your team's needs. Explosion is the preferred move, as it OHKOes nearly anything that doesn't resist it and is useful when you believe Cloyster has served its purpose. However, Surf can be used over Explosion if your team needs a second answer to Tyranitar; Cloyster's Defense stat is large enough to ensure that it can take a +1 Rock Slide and retaliate with a powerful STAB Surf. If Cloyster is not being used as your secondary Tyranitar check, it's best to stick with Explosion. It's also worth noting that with Surf, Cloyster beats Forretress much more easily.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is fairly simple. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Cloyster can survive for as long as possible; 80 Special Attack EVs are needed to 2HKO any Gengar hoping to meet Rapid Spin as opposed to Ice Beam; additionally, 80 Special Attack EVs are needed to pose an offensive threat to Skarmory, and 16 Speed EVs are needed to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory; finally, 162 Defense EVs ensure that Cloyster can repeatedly take hits from Choice Band Salamence's Hidden Power Flying. Don't worry too much about using a Special Defense stat reducing nature, as Cloyster can't take any special attack due to its pitiful Special Defense and HP stats. However, a more specially defensive Cloyster is useful for giving Cloyster more opportunities to set up Spikes. The spread for the aforementioned Cloyster would be 252 HP / 80 SpA / 170 SpD with a Relaxed nature. With such an EV spread, Cloyster can take Surfs from Milotic and Swampert, set up Spikes, and still be healthy enough to check threats later in the game. As far as move changes, Rest could be used in the fourth moveslot if you're playing Cloyster more defensively.</p>

    <p>Some of Cloyster's best teammates are physical walls that cover its weaknesses. Swampert covers Cloyster's Rock- and Electric-type weaknesses, allowing the two Water-types to efficiently check a plethora of common threats in OU due to their excellent defensive traits, such as Salamence, Tyranitar, Hidden Power Ice Zapdos, Flygon, Aerodactyl, and Metagross. Another fabulous physically defensive partner for Cloyster is the uncommon Steelix. Although Steelix and Cloyster share a Fighting-type weakness, Steelix is immune to Electric-type moves, is neutral to Grass-type moves, and appreciates Cloyster's Water-type resistance. Additionally, Steelix appreciates the Spikes that Cloyster provides so that it can rack up damage with Roar on a predicted switch. The combination of Steelix and Cloyster can check Salamence, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Raikou, Zapdos, Celebi, Jirachi without Fire Punch, Aerodactyl, Flygon, and Metagross.</p>

    <p>Some of Cloyster's other best teammates are special walls that cover its weaknesses. Snorlax is one of the better overall teammates available. Similar to Cloyster, Snorlax has an offensive presence. However, unlike Cloyster, Snorlax has the potential to rip through unprepared teams with its feared Curse set. Additionally, Snorlax has one of the best Special Defense and HP Stats in OU, which allows it to check a plethora of special attackers, set up Curse, and sweep all at the same time. Blissey is in a similar boat with Snorlax, because with Calm Mind, Blissey can sweep through an entire team. Also, Blissey essentially covers all of Cloyster's special attacking weaknesses due to her absurd HP and Special Defense stats. Celebi is another good teammate that can take on many of Cloyster's common switch-ins such as Snorlax and Water-types. Additionally, the combination of Celebi, Swampert, and Cloyster have nearly perfect synergy. The aforementioned defensive core also tends to force a lot of switches, which makes full use of Cloyster's Spikes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As mentioned earlier, Cloyster's movepool is incredibly mediocre. Toxic can be used over Explosion or Surf to cripple a switch-in, but many of Cloyster's switch-ins have Rest, including Dusclops and Curse Snorlax, or Natural Cure, such as Starmie. Hidden Power Electric is useful for making Cloyster a better Gyarados check. Other than Toxic and Hidden Power Electric, stick to the given set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Defeating Cloyster should not be a daunting task. Firstly, Cloyster's Special Defense stat is awful. Next, check to see if your team has any special attackers. If you have a special attacker, then it can probably beat Cloyster. Even bulky Water-types such as Milotic and Swampert will defeat Cloyster if you bombard it with Surf or Hydro Pump. When fighting Cloyster with a bulky Water-type, beware of a random Explosion, as it will defeat you without remorse, with the exception of Suicune. Starmie is one of the better special attackers to check Cloyster with because it can switch into any of Cloyster's moves, bar Explosion, Rapid Spin away Spikes, and defeat Cloyster with Psychic, Thunderbolt, or a couple of Surfs. Remember, when checking Cloyster with a special attacker to beware of Explosion. If for some reason your team lacks a special attack, don't worry too much. Toxic is a great, albeit passive, way to deal with Cloyster. Toxic forces Cloyster to use Explosion earlier, limits the time Cloyster supports its team, and makes it easier for your other physical sweepers to sweep. Despite Cloyster's titanic Defense stat, there are physical attacks that can still break its shell. Dragon Dance Tyranitar, arguably the largest threat in ADV OU, can 2HKO Cloyster with Rock Slide while surviving Ice Beam and an Explosion. Over an extended period of time, Aerodactyl can defeat Cloyster with a series of STAB Rock Slides. Curse Snorlax can take any special attack Cloyster throws at it and can survive an Explosion if it is at +2 Defense. Fighting-types such as Medicham, Heracross, Machamp, Blaziken, and Hariyama can easily defeat Cloyster with Brick Break or Focus Punch. Mixed attackers including Metagross and Tyranitar make for excellent checks, as they resist Explosion, can take an Ice Beam, and can demolish Cloyster with Hidden Power Grass. All in all, any competent team should be able to defeat Cloyster.</p>
  2. Triangles

    Triangles

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    Starmie beats Cloyster easily, and is one of the most common spinners in OU.
  3. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_ I COULD BE BANNED!

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    It's a moot point since Starmie beats Forretress and Skarmory just as easily.
    Cloyster can however defeat Claydol, which the other two can't even touch.
  4. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Forgot about Starmie, good catch Triangles xD
    qc me
  5. gene

    gene GENE
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    cloyster should not be using special defense evs, it's completely pointless. i've always used max hp / enough for 180 speed / split the rest between defense and spatk (usually about half and half).

    rest is an option over surf for a more defensive play style.
  6. Danilo

    Danilo
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    I don't think Special Defense EVs are useless. Being able to use Spikes against bulky Water-types is very useful, as is exploding on Celebi as it fails to OHKO with Psychic. I've been very happy with the specially defensive Claydol spread that's being used in the analysis.

    I will add Rest to the AC.
  7. gene

    gene GENE
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    it's more important to take less damage from things like cbmence hp flying and flygon eq than to try to tank milotic surfs or something. also celebi often uses hp grass/giga drain and good luck surviving that...
  8. Danilo

    Danilo
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    both spreads have their merits. I'd like to get a second opinion before changing anything. I might just have a strong emphasis of a physically defensive spread in the first paragraph of the AC
  9. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Carl agrees with Gene so I'll make a more physically defensive spread the main spread. I'll have a strong emphasis of a specially defensive one in the AC
  10. Carl

    Carl or Varl
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    i'm inclined to agree with gene as he is the cloyster master

    i can see where spdef could be helpful but it's only helpful in like rare instances.. in general, better defense with your stab ice beam provides a nice second option check for the aforementioned mons.
  11. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    I use SDef since I'm paranoid/don't care about minimizing already not-nearly-enough-for-a-3HKO damage from Salamence, but I'll have to piggyback on the words of Carl/gene here. I believe it's still worth at least mentioning the purpose of SDef EVs, though.
  12. Danilo

    Danilo
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    alright the main spread is changed. i mentioned a more specially defensive spread in the first paragraph of the AC
  13. Triangles

    Triangles

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    Uninvested Cloyster does around 65% to 252/184 Bold Suicune with Explosion.
    I'd also emphasise Starmie, especially Thunderbolt variants, as a counter to Cloyster, because as well as beating it 1 on 1 easily, it also spins Cloyster's Spikes away and as such lowers its usefulness. I wouldn't just breeze past the fact that special attackers counter Cloyster either - elaborate and name specific pokes such as SubCM Jirachi, Raikou, Jolteon, Thunderpunch or HP Grass Metagross, and even stuff like RestTalk Specially Defensive Zapdos and CM Celebi to an extent (there are even more I could list), but state that apart from Jirachi and Metagross, they will not take an Explosion too well.
  14. Danilo

    Danilo
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    I'll remove the Suicune part and list him as an exception. I'll talk about Mixed Metagross but I don't think it's necessary to go into too much detail. The reader should understand that any faster special attacker is a fine way to check Cloyster. I'll give Starmie a special mention since it can take Ice Beams, Rapid Spin, and kill Cloyster.
  15. Triangles

    Triangles

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    All that I'd add to the analysis is that Swampert and Celebi in conjunction cover all of Cloyster's type weaknesses - Pert covers Rock and the Electrics which run HP Ice, and Celebi covers Fighting, and Electrics with HP Grass. Also, as a defensive pair, they force many threats to switch, and rack up Cloyster's Spikes damage. Also, I'd add HP Electric to OO, as it can make a good counter to Gyarados with it, if your team has issues with Gyara. Also, mention that Surf Cloyster is better for beating forretress than Explosion Cloyster.

    Other than that: Approved 1/2
  16. gene

    gene GENE
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    should be fine now, approved 2/2
  17. Danilo

    Danilo
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    i also approve xD
    ready for gp
  18. shrapn3l

    shrapn3l

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    i pretty much always use surf over ice beam currently since hitting tyranitar and smacking forretress (definitely the most popular spinner at the moment) is much more useful than hitting zapdos and celebi on the switch or whatever. meanwhile cloyster should not be your only mence/flygon counter pretty much ever unless you have restalk or something, and you will scare them off regardless of whether or not you show ice beam anyway, plus you have explosion for ddmence if they call your bluff late game and put you in a tough situation. i also disagree about the s.def evs because getting 2hkod by swampert who you are supposed to counter easily is fucking pathetic. you will be getting many more opportunities to set up on swampert than cbmence and flygon is better off hitting you with fire blast (which almost 2hkos you with a lax nature, and mence does over 60%) regardless of if it's standard with wimpy 298 attack earthquakes that will never kill you or the holographic-rare cb variant.
  19. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego I'm not ready 4 freddy
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    Amateur check
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    [Overview]

    <p>Cloyster is in a sticky situation in ADV OU. Firstly, Cloyster faces stiff competition from other Spikes users in ADV OU. Skarmory, while lacking Rapid Spin, resists nearly every physical attacking type, posses a workable Special Defense stat, has a great movepool, and is immune to Spikes. Forretress has arguably the best defensive typing in the game, Rapid Spin, an okay Special Defense stat, and an excellent movepool. On the other hand, Cloyster has mediocre defensive typing, giving it a weakness to a plethora of common physical attacks in ADV OU, such as Rock Slide and Focus Punch, and special attacks like Thunderbolt. Additionally, Cloyster has a terrible Special Defense stat; as a result, Cloyster is forced to use a ton of Special Defense EVs to ensure that it's able to take even resisted Surfs. Finally, Cloyster has a terrible HP stat which hinders Cloyster's ability to survive throughout the battle. So, you may now wonder, why does Cloyster deserve a spot on my team? In comparison to all of the other Rapid Spin users in ADV OU, Cloyster posses the best mixed offensive stats. With access to a powerful STAB Ice Beam and an Explosion coming off of a base 95 Attack stat, Cloyster is sure to deal some damage while supporting your team. Additionally, Cloyster beats all other Rapid Spin users in OU, with the exception of Starmie, due to its good Special Attack stat and excellent Defense stat, if the aforementioned Rapid Spin users lack the uncommon Toxic. Also, Cloyster's lack of Steel typing prevents Magneton from trapping it, giving your team a huge incremental advantage over offensive teams using Magneton to trap and destroy Forretress and Skarmory. Finally, Cloyster's offensive typing lets it defeat the threats that Skarmory is forced to Whirlwind away. Despite its flaws, Cloyster certainly deserves to be considered for a spot on more offensive teams in need of Spikes and Rapid Spin support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Explosion / Surf
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Lax
    evs: 252 HP / 162 Def / 80 SpA / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Cloyster's most common and viable set. Spikes is what sets Cloyster apart from defensive Water-types like Swampert, Milotic, and even Starmie; Spikes almost always gives you an advantage over your opponent, turns 3HKOs into 2HKOs, and makes Explosion even deadlier. Rapid Spin is another one of the few advantages Cloyster has over some other bulky Water-types and Skarmory, ensuring that your team is not punished when they switch. Ice Beam is a strong STAB move that lets Cloyster defeat Salamence immediately rather than phaze it out and deal with Salamence later on in the game. Additionally, Ice Beam is also useful for hitting a Zapdos that may switch into Cloyster; however, Cloyster should not be staying in on Zapdos for fear of Thunderbolt. The last moveslot should be tailored towards your team's needs. Explosion is the preferred move as it OHKOs nearly anything that doesn't resist it and is useful when you believe Cloyster has served its purpose. However, Surf can be used over Explosion if your team needs a second Tyranitar answer. Cloyster's Defense stat is large enough to ensure that it can take a +1 Rock Slide and retaliate with a powerful STAB Surf. If Cloyster is not being used as your secondary Tyranitar check, it's best to stick with Explosion. It's also worth noting that with Surf Cloyster beats Forretress much more easily.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is fairly simple. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Cloyster can survive as long as possible; 80 Special Attack EVs are needed to 2HKO Gengar hoping to meet Rapid Spin as opposed to an Ice Beam. Additionally, 80 Special Attack EVs are needed to pose an offensive threat to Skarmory, (comma) 16 Speed EVs are needed to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory, (comma) and 162 Defense EVs ensure that Cloyster can repeatedly take hits from Choice Band Salamence's Hidden Power Flying. Don't worry too much about using a Special Defense stat reducing nature, (AC) as Cloyster can't take any special attack due to its pitiful Special Defense and HP stats. However, a more specially defensive Cloyster is useful for giving Cloyster more opportunities to set up Spikes. The spread for the aforementioned Cloyster would be 252 HP / 80 SpA / 170 SpD with a Relaxed nature. With the previously mentioned EV spread, Cloyster can take Surfs from Milotic and Swampert, set up Spikes, and still be healthy enough to check threats later in the game. As far as move changes, Rest could be used in the fourth moveslot if you're playing your Cloyster more defensively. </p>

    <p>Some of Cloyster's best teammates are physical walls that cover its weaknesses. Swampert covers Cloyster's Rock-, (RC) and Electric-type weakness, allowing the two Water-types to efficiently check a plethora of common threats in OU due to their excellent defensive traits, such as Salamence, Tyranitar, Hidden Power Ice Zapdos, Flygon, Aerodactyl, and Metagross. Another fabulous physically defensive partner for Cloyster is the uncommon Steelix. Although Steelix and Cloyster share a Fighting-type weakness, Steelix resists Electric-type moves, is neutral to Grass-type moves, and appreciates Cloyster's Water-type resistance. Additionally, Steelix appreciates the Spikes that Cloyster provides so that it can rack up damage with Roar on predicted switch. The combination of Steelix and Cloyster can check Salamence, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Raikou, Zapdos, Celebi, Jirachi without Fire Punch, Aerodactyl, Flygon, and Metagross.<p>

    <p>Other great teammates to Cloyster's best teammates are special walls that also cover its weaknesses. Snorlax is one of the better overall Cloyster teammates available. Similar to Cloyster, Snorlax has both an offensive and defensive presence. However, unlike Cloyster, Snorlax has the potential to rip through unprepared teams with its feared Curse set. Additionally, Snorlax has one of the best Special Defense and HP stats in ADV OU which allows Snorlax to check a plethora of special attackers, set up Curse, and sweep all at the same time. Blissey is in a similar boat with Snorlax because with Calm Mind Blissey can sweep through an entire team with ease. Also, Blissey essentially covers all of Cloyster's special attacking weaknesses due to her absurd HP and Special Defense stat. Celebi is another good teammate that can take on many of Cloyster's common switch ins, including Snorlax and Water-types. Additionally, the combination of Celebi, Swampert, and Cloyster have nearly perfect synergy. The aforementioned defensive core also tends to force a lot of switches, (AC) which makes full use of Cloyster's Spikes.

    [Other Options]

    <p>As mentioned earlier, Cloyster's movepool is incredibly mediocre. Toxic can be used over Explosion or Surf to cripple a switch-in, but many of Cloyster's switch-ins have Rest, such as Dusclops and Curse Snorlax, or Natural Cure users, such as Starmie. Hidden Power Electric is useful for making Cloyster a better Gyarados check. Other than Toxic and Hidden Power Electric, stick to the given set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Defeating Cloyster should not be a daunting task. Firstly, look at Cloyster's Special Defense stat. You may notice that's it's awful. Next, check to see if your team has any special attackers. If you have a special attacker, then you're good. Even bulky Water-types such as Milotic and Swampert will defeat Cloyster if you bombard it with Surf or Hydro Pump. When fighting Cloyster with a bulky Water-type, (AC) beware of Explosion, (AC) as it will defeat you without remorse, with the exception of Suicune. Starmie is one of the better special attackers to check Cloyster because it can switch into any of Cloyster's moves, barring Explosion, Rapid Spin away Spikes, and defeat Cloyster with Psychic, Thunderbolt, or after a couple of Surfs. Remember, when checking Cloyster with a special attacker to beware of Explosion. If for some reason your team lacks a special attack, don't worry too much. Toxic is a great, albeit passive, (AC) way to deal with Cloyster. Toxic forces Cloyster to use Explosion earlier, limits the time Cloyster supports its team, and makes it easier for your other physical attackers to sweep. Despite Cloyster's titanic Defense stat, there are physical attacks that can still break its shell. Dragon Dance Tyranitar, arguably the largest threat in ADV OU, can 2HKO Cloyster with Rock Slide while surviving Ice Beams and an Explosion. Over an extended period of time, Aerodactyl can defeat Cloyster with a series of STAB Rock Slides. Curse Snorlax can take any special attack Cloyster throws at it and can survive an Explosion healthily if at +2 Defense. Fighting-types such as Medicham, Heracross, Machamp Blaziken, and Hariyama can easily defeat Cloyster with Brick Break or Focus Punch. Mixed attackers like Metagross and Tyranitar make for excellent checks as they resist Explosion, can take an Ice Beam, and can demolish Cloyster with a Hidden Power Grass. All in all, any competent team should be able to defeat Cloyster. </p>
  20. DittoCrow

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    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Cloyster is in a sticky situation in ADV OU. Firstly, Cloyster, as it faces stiff competition from other Spikes users. Skarmory, while lacking Rapid Spin, resists nearly every physical attacking type, posses a workable Special Defense stat, has a great movepool, and is immune to Spikes. Forretress has arguably the best defensive typing in the game, Rapid Spin, an okay decent Special Defense stat, and an excellent movepool. On the other hand, Cloyster has mediocre defensive typing, giving it a weakness to a plethora of common physical attacks in OU, such as Rock Slide and Focus Punch, and special attacks likesuch as Thunderbolt. Additionally, Cloyster has a terrible Special Defense stat; as a result, Cloyster is forced to run a ton of Special Defense EVs to if it even hopes to take even a resisted Surf. Finallyurthermore, Cloyster has a terrible HP stat which hinders Cloyster'its ability to survive throughout the battle. So, you may now wonder, why does Cloyster deserve a spot on my team? In comparison to all of the other Rapid Spin users in ADV OU, Cloyster posses the best mixed offensive stats. With access to a powerful STAB Ice Beam and an Explosion coming off of a base 95 Attack stat, Cloyster is sure to deal some damage while supporting your team. Additionally, Cloyster beats all other Rapid Spin users in OU, with the exception of Starmie, due to its good Special Attack stat and excellent Defense stat, if the aforementioned Rapid Spin users lack the uncommon Toxic. Also, Cloyster's lack of Steel typing prevents Magneton from trapping it, giving your team a huge advantage over offensive teams using Magneton to trap and destroy other Spikes users such as Forretress and Skarmory. Finally, Cloyster's offensive typing lets it defeat the threats that Skarmory is forced to Whirlwind away. Despite its flaws, Cloyster certainly deserves to be considered for a spot on more offensive teams in need of Spikes and Rapid Spin support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Explosion / Surf
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Lax
    evs: 252 HP / 162 Def / 80 SpA / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Cloyster's most common and viable set. Spikes is what sets Cloyster apart from defensive Water-types likesuch as Swampert, Milotic, and even Starmie; Spikes almost always gives you an advantage over your opponent, by turnsing 3HKOs into 2HKOs, and makesing Explosion even deadlier. Rapid Spin is another one of the few advantages Cloyster has over some other bulky Water-types and Skarmory, ensuringas it ensures that your team iswill not be punished when theyfor switching. Ice Beam is a strong STAB move that lets Cloyster defeat Salamence immediately rather than phaze it out and deal with Salamenceit later on in the game. Additionally, Ice Beam is also useful for hitting a Zapdos that may switch into Cloyster; however, Cloyster should not be staying in on Zapdos for fear of Thunderbolt. The last moveslot should be tailored towards your team's needs. Explosion is the preferred move, as it OHKOes nearly anything that doesn't resist it and is useful when you believe Cloyster has served its purpose. However, Surf can be used over Explosion if your team needs a second answer to Tyranitar answer.; Cloyster's Defense stat is large enough to ensure that it can take a +1 Rock Slide and retaliate with a powerful STAB Surf. If Cloyster is not being used as your secondary Tyranitar check, it's best to stick with Explosion. It's also worth noting that with Surf, Cloyster beats Forretress much more easily.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is fairly simple. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Cloyster can survive for as long as possible; 80 Special Attack EVs are needed to 2HKO Gengar's who are hoping to meet Rapid Spin as opposed to an Ice Beam; additionally, 80 Special Attack EVs are needed to pose an offensive threat to Skarmory;, and 16 Speed EVs are needed to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory; finally, 162 Defense EVs ensure that Cloyster can repeatedly take hits from Choice Band Salamence's Hidden Power Flying. Don't worry too much about using a Special Defense stat reducing nature, as Cloyster can't take any special attack due to its pitiful Special Defense and HP stats. However, a more specially defensive Cloyster is useful for giving Cloyster more opportunities to set- up Spikes. The spread for the aforementioned Cloyster would be 252 HP / 80 SpA / 170 SpD with a Relaxed nature. With the previously mentioned EV spread, Cloyster can take Surf's from Milotic and Swampert, set up Spikes, and still be healthy enough to check threats later in the game. As far as move changes, Rest could be used in the fourth moveslot if you're playing your Cloyster more defensively. </p>

    <p>Some of Cloyster's best teammates are physical walls that cover its weaknesses. Swampert covers Cloyster's Rock-, and Electric-type weakness, allowing the two Water-types to efficiently check a plethora of common threats in OU due to their excellent defensive traits, such as Salamence, Tyranitar, Hidden Power Ice Zapdos, Flygon, Aerodactyl, and Metagross. Another fabulous physically defensive partner for Cloyster is the uncommon Steelix. Although Steelix and Cloyster share a Fighting-type weakness, Steelix resists Electric-type moves, is neutral to Grass-type moves, and appreciates Cloyster's Water-type resistance. Additionally, Steelix appreciates the Spikes that Cloyster provides so that it can rack- up damage with Roar on predicted switch. The combination of Steelix and Cloyster can check Salamence, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Raikou, Zapdos, Celebi, Jirachi without Fire Punch, Aerodactyl, Flygon, and Metagross.</p>

    <p>Other of Cloyster's best teammates are special walls that cover its weaknesses. Snorlax is one of the better overall Cloyster teammates available. Similar to Cloyster, Snorlax has an offensive presence. However, unlike Cloyster, Snorlax has the potential to rip through unprepared teams with its feared Curse set. Additionally, Snorlax has one of the best Special Defense and HP Stats in OU which allows Snorlax to check a plethora of special attackers, set up Curse, and sweep all at the same time. Blissey is in a similar boat with Snorlax, because with Calm Mind, Blissey can sweep through an entire team with ease. Also, Blissey essentially covers all of Cloyster's special attacking weaknesses due to her absurd HP and Special Defense stats. Celebi is another good teammate that can take on many of Cloyster's common switch -ins likesuch as Snorlax and Water-types. Additionally, the combination of Celebi, Swampert, and Cloyster have nearly perfect synergy. The aforementioned defensive core also tends to force a lot of switches which makes full use of Cloyster's Spikes. </p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As mentioned earlier, Cloyster's movepool is incredibly mediocre. Toxic can be used over Explosion or Surf to cripple a switch-in, but many of Cloyster's switch-ins have Rest such as, including Dusclops and Curse Snorlax, or Natural Cure like, such as Starmie. Hidden Power Electric is useful for making Cloyster a better Gyarados check. Other than Toxic and Hidden Power Electric, stick to the given set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Defeating Cloyster should not be a daunting task. Firstly, look at Cloyster's Special Defense stat. You may notice that's it' is awful. Next, check to see if your team has any special attackers. If you have a special attacker, then you're goodit can probably beat Cloyster. Even bulky Water-types likesuch as Milotic and Swampert will defeat Cloyster if you bombard it with Surf or Hydro Pump. When fighting Cloyster with a bulky Water-type, beware of a random Explosion, as it will defeat you without remorse, with the exception of Suicune. Starmie is one of the better special attackers to check Cloyster because it can switch into any of Cloyster's moves, bar Explosion, Rapid Spin away Spikes, and defeat Cloyster with Psychic, Thunderbolt, or after a couple of Surfs. Remember, when checking Cloyster with a special attacker to beware of Explosion. If for some reason your team lacks a special attack, don't worry too much. Toxic is a great, albeit passive way to deal with Cloyster. Toxic forces Cloyster to use Explosion earlier, limits the time Cloyster supports its team, and makes it easier for your other physical sweepers to sweep. Despite Cloyster's titanic Defense stat, there are physical attacks that can still break its shell. Dragon Dance Tyranitar, arguably the largest threat in ADV OU, can 2HKO Cloyster with Rock Slide while surviving Ice Beams and an Explosion. Over an extended period of time, Aerodactyl can defeat Cloyster with a series of STAB Rock Slides. Curse Snorlax can take any special attack Cloyster throws at it and can survive an Explosion healthily ifif it is at +2 Defense. Fighting-types likesuch as Medicham, Heracross, Machamp, Blaziken, and Hariyama can easily defeat Cloyster with Brick Break or Focus Punch. Mixed attackers likeincluding Metagross and Tyranitar make for excellent checks, as they resist Explosion, can take an Ice Beam, and can demolish Cloyster with a Hidden Power Grass. All in all, any competent team should be able to defeat Cloyster. </p>



    c/p (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Cloyster is in a sticky situation in ADV OU, as it faces stiff competition from other Spikes users. Skarmory, while lacking Rapid Spin, resists nearly every physical attacking type, posses a workable Special Defense stat, has a great movepool, and is immune to Spikes. Forretress has arguably the best defensive typing in the game, Rapid Spin, a decent Special Defense stat, and an excellent movepool. On the other hand, Cloyster has mediocre defensive typing, giving it a weakness to a plethora of common physical attacks in OU, such as Rock Slide and Focus Punch, and special attacks such as Thunderbolt. Additionally, Cloyster has a terrible Special Defense stat; as a result, Cloyster is forced to run a ton of Special Defense EVs to even hope to take even a resisted Surf. Furthermore, Cloyster has a terrible HP stat which hinders its ability to survive throughout the battle. So, you may now wonder, why does Cloyster deserve a spot on my team? In comparison to all of the other Rapid Spin users in ADV OU, Cloyster posses the best mixed offensive stats. With access to a powerful STAB Ice Beam and an Explosion coming off of a base 95 Attack stat, Cloyster is sure to deal some damage while supporting your team. Additionally, Cloyster beats all other Rapid Spin users in OU, with the exception of Starmie, due to its good Special Attack stat and excellent Defense stat. Also, Cloyster's lack of Steel typing prevents Magneton from trapping it, giving your team a huge advantage over offensive teams using Magneton to trap and destroy other Spikes users such as Forretress and Skarmory. Finally, Cloyster's offensive typing lets it defeat the threats that Skarmory is forced to Whirlwind away. Despite its flaws, Cloyster certainly deserves to be considered for a spot on more offensive teams in need of Spikes and Rapid Spin support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Explosion / Surf
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Lax
    evs: 252 HP / 162 Def / 80 SpA / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Cloyster's most common and viable set. Spikes is what sets Cloyster apart from defensive Water-types such as Swampert, Milotic, and Starmie; Spikes almost always gives you an advantage over your opponent by turning 3HKOs into 2HKOs and making Explosion even deadlier. Rapid Spin is another one of the few advantages Cloyster has over some other bulky Water-types and Skarmory, as it ensures that your team will not be punished for switching. Ice Beam is a strong STAB move that lets Cloyster defeat Salamence immediately rather than phaze it out and deal with it later on in the game. Additionally, Ice Beam is also useful for hitting Zapdos that may switch into Cloyster; however, Cloyster should not be staying in on Zapdos for fear of Thunderbolt. The last moveslot should be tailored towards your team's needs. Explosion is the preferred move, as it OHKOes nearly anything that doesn't resist it and is useful when you believe Cloyster has served its purpose. However, Surf can be used over Explosion if your team needs a second answer to Tyranitar; Cloyster's Defense stat is large enough to ensure that it can take a +1 Rock Slide and retaliate with a powerful STAB Surf. If Cloyster is not being used as your secondary Tyranitar check, it's best to stick with Explosion. It's also worth noting that with Surf, Cloyster beats Forretress much more easily.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is fairly simple. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Cloyster can survive for as long as possible; 80 Special Attack EVs are needed to 2HKO Gengar who are hoping to meet Rapid Spin as opposed to Ice Beam; additionally, 80 Special Attack EVs are needed to pose an offensive threat to Skarmory, and 16 Speed EVs are needed to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory; finally, 162 Defense EVs ensure that Cloyster can repeatedly take hits from Choice Band Salamence's Hidden Power Flying. Don't worry too much about using a Special Defense stat reducing nature, as Cloyster can't take any special attack due to its pitiful Special Defense and HP stats. However, a more specially defensive Cloyster is useful for giving Cloyster more opportunities to set up Spikes. The spread for the aforementioned Cloyster would be 252 HP / 80 SpA / 170 SpD with a Relaxed nature. With the previously mentioned EV spread, Cloyster can take Surfs from Milotic and Swampert, set up Spikes, and still be healthy enough to check threats later in the game. As far as move changes, Rest could be used in the fourth moveslot if you're playing your Cloyster more defensively.</p>

    <p>Some of Cloyster's best teammates are physical walls that cover its weaknesses. Swampert covers Cloyster's Rock- and Electric-type weakness, allowing the two Water-types to efficiently check a plethora of common threats in OU due to their excellent defensive traits, such as Salamence, Tyranitar, Hidden Power Ice Zapdos, Flygon, Aerodactyl, and Metagross. Another fabulous physically defensive partner for Cloyster is the uncommon Steelix. Although Steelix and Cloyster share a Fighting-type weakness, Steelix resists Electric-type moves, is neutral to Grass-type moves, and appreciates Cloyster's Water-type resistance. Additionally, Steelix appreciates the Spikes that Cloyster provides so that it can rack up damage with Roar on predicted switch. The combination of Steelix and Cloyster can check Salamence, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Raikou, Zapdos, Celebi, Jirachi without Fire Punch, Aerodactyl, Flygon, and Metagross.</p>

    <p>Other of Cloyster's best teammates are special walls that cover its weaknesses. Snorlax is one of the better overall teammates available. Similar to Cloyster, Snorlax has an offensive presence. However, unlike Cloyster, Snorlax has the potential to rip through unprepared teams with its feared Curse set. Additionally, Snorlax has one of the best Special Defense and HP Stats in OU which allows Snorlax to check a plethora of special attackers, set up Curse, and sweep all at the same time. Blissey is in a similar boat with Snorlax, because with Calm Mind, Blissey can sweep through an entire team. Also, Blissey essentially covers all of Cloyster's special attacking weaknesses due to her absurd HP and Special Defense stats. Celebi is another good teammate that can take on many of Cloyster's common switch-ins such as Snorlax and Water-types. Additionally, the combination of Celebi, Swampert, and Cloyster have nearly perfect synergy. The aforementioned defensive core also tends to force a lot of switches which makes full use of Cloyster's Spikes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As mentioned earlier, Cloyster's movepool is incredibly mediocre. Toxic can be used over Explosion or Surf to cripple a switch-in, but many of Cloyster's switch-ins have Rest, including Dusclops and Curse Snorlax, or Natural Cure, such as Starmie. Hidden Power Electric is useful for making Cloyster a better Gyarados check. Other than Toxic and Hidden Power Electric, stick to the given set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Defeating Cloyster should not be a daunting task. Firstly, Cloyster's Special Defense stat is awful. Next, check to see if your team has any special attackers. If you have a special attacker, then it can probably beat Cloyster. Even bulky Water-types such as Milotic and Swampert will defeat Cloyster if you bombard it with Surf or Hydro Pump. When fighting Cloyster with a bulky Water-type, beware of a random Explosion, as it will defeat you without remorse, with the exception of Suicune. Starmie is one of the better special attackers to check Cloyster because it can switch into any of Cloyster's moves, bar Explosion, Rapid Spin away Spikes, and defeat Cloyster with Psychic, Thunderbolt, or a couple of Surfs. Remember, when checking Cloyster with a special attacker to beware of Explosion. If for some reason your team lacks a special attack, don't worry too much. Toxic is a great, albeit passive way to deal with Cloyster. Toxic forces Cloyster to use Explosion earlier, limits the time Cloyster supports its team, and makes it easier for your other physical sweepers to sweep. Despite Cloyster's titanic Defense stat, there are physical attacks that can still break its shell. Dragon Dance Tyranitar, arguably the largest threat in ADV OU, can 2HKO Cloyster with Rock Slide while surviving Ice Beam and an Explosion. Over an extended period of time, Aerodactyl can defeat Cloyster with a series of STAB Rock Slides. Curse Snorlax can take any special attack Cloyster throws at it and can survive an Explosion if it is at +2 Defense. Fighting-types such as Medicham, Heracross, Machamp, Blaziken, and Hariyama can easily defeat Cloyster with Brick Break or Focus Punch. Mixed attackers including Metagross and Tyranitar make for excellent checks, as they resist Explosion, can take an Ice Beam, and can demolish Cloyster with Hidden Power Grass. All in all, any competent team should be able to defeat Cloyster.</p>



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  21. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    thanks!
    1 more
  22. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Ruiner of Alph

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,477
    C/P check on it's way~

    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>Cloyster is in a sticky situation in ADV OU, as it faces stiff competition from other Spikes users. Skarmory, while lacking Rapid Spin, resists nearly every physical attacking type, possesses a workable Special Defense stat, has a great movepool, and is immune to Spikes. Forretress has arguably the best defensive typing in the game, Rapid Spin, a decent Special Defense stat, and an excellent movepool. On the other hand, Cloyster has mediocre defensive typing, giving it a weakness to a plethora of common physical attacks in OU, such as Rock Slide and Focus Punch, and special attacks such as Thunderbolt. Additionally, Cloyster has a terrible Special Defense stat; as a result, Cloyster is forced to run a ton of Special Defense EVs to even hope to take even a resisted Surf. Furthermore, Cloyster has a terrible HP stat which hinders its ability to survive throughout the battle. So, you might now wonder, why does Cloyster deserve a spot on my team? In comparison to all of the other Rapid Spin users in ADV OU, Cloyster possesses the best mixed offensive stats. With access to a powerful STAB Ice Beam and an Explosion coming off of a base 95 Attack stat, Cloyster is sure to deal some damage while supporting your team. Additionally, Cloyster beats all other Rapid Spin users in OU, with the exception of Starmie, due to its good Special Attack stat and excellent Defense stat. Also, Cloyster's lack of Steel typing prevents Magneton from trapping it, giving your team a huge advantage over offensive teams using Magneton to trap and destroy other Spikes users such as Forretress and Skarmory. Finally, Cloyster's offensive typing lets it defeat the threats that Skarmory is forced to Whirlwind away. Despite its flaws, Cloyster certainly deserves to be considered for a spot on more offensive teams in need of Spikes and Rapid Spin support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Explosion / Surf
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Lax
    evs: 252 HP / 162 Def / 80 SpA / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Cloyster's most common and viable set. Spikes is what sets Cloyster apart from defensive Water-types such as Swampert, Milotic, and Starmie; Spikes almost always gives you an advantage over your opponent by turning 3HKOs into 2HKOs and making Explosion even deadlier. Rapid Spin is another one of the few advantages Cloyster has over some other bulky Water-types and Skarmory, as it ensures that your team will not be punished for switching. Ice Beam is a strong STAB move that lets Cloyster defeat Salamence immediately rather than phaze it out and deal with it later on in the battle. Additionally, Ice Beam is also useful for hitting Zapdos that might switch into Cloyster; however, Cloyster should not be staying in on Zapdos for fear of Thunderbolt. The last moveslot should be tailored towards your team's needs. Explosion is the preferred move, as it OHKOes nearly anything that doesn't resist it and is useful when you believe Cloyster has served its purpose. However, Surf can be used over Explosion if your team needs a second answer to Tyranitar; Cloyster's Defense stat is large enough to ensure that it can take a +1 Rock Slide and retaliate with a powerful STAB Surf. If Cloyster is not being used as your secondary Tyranitar check, it's best to stick with Explosion. It's also worth noting that with Surf, Cloyster beats Forretress much more easily.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is fairly simple. Maximum HP is necessary to ensure that Cloyster can survive for as long as possible; 80 Special Attack EVs are needed to 2HKO Gengar which are hoping to meet Rapid Spin as opposed to Ice Beam; additionally, 80 Special Attack EVs are needed to pose an offensive threat to Skarmory, and 16 Speed EVs are needed to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory; finally, 162 Defense EVs ensure that Cloyster can repeatedly take hits from Choice Band Salamence's Hidden Power Flying. Don't worry too much about using a Special Defense stat reducing nature, as Cloyster can't take any special attack due to its pitiful Special Defense and HP stats. However, a more specially defensive Cloyster is useful for giving Cloyster more opportunities to set up Spikes. The spread for the aforementioned Cloyster would be 252 HP / 80 SpA / 170 SpD with a Relaxed nature. With such an EV spread, Cloyster can take Surfs from Milotic and Swampert, set up Spikes, and still be healthy enough to check threats later in the game. As far as move changes, Rest could be used in the fourth moveslot if you're playing Cloyster more defensively.</p>

    <p>Some of Cloyster's best teammates are physical walls that cover its weaknesses. Swampert covers Cloyster's Rock- and Electric-type weakness, allowing the two Water-types to efficiently check a plethora of common threats in OU due to their excellent defensive traits, such as Salamence, Tyranitar, Hidden Power Ice Zapdos, Flygon, Aerodactyl, and Metagross. Another fabulous physically defensive partner for Cloyster is the uncommon Steelix. Although Steelix and Cloyster share a Fighting-type weakness, Steelix is immune to Electric-type moves, is neutral to Grass-type moves, and appreciates Cloyster's Water-type resistance. Additionally, Steelix appreciates the Spikes that Cloyster provides so that it can rack up damage with Roar on predicted switch. The combination of Steelix and Cloyster can check Salamence, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Raikou, Zapdos, Celebi, Jirachi without Fire Punch, Aerodactyl, Flygon, and Metagross.</p>

    <p>Some of Cloyster's other best teammates are special walls that cover its weaknesses. Snorlax is one of the better overall teammates available. Similar to Cloyster, Snorlax has an offensive presence. However, unlike Cloyster, Snorlax has the potential to rip through unprepared teams with its feared Curse set. Additionally, Snorlax has one of the best Special Defense and HP Stats in OU, which allows it to check a plethora of special attackers, set up Curse, and sweep all at the same time. Blissey is in a similar boat with Snorlax, because with Calm Mind, Blissey can sweep through an entire team. Also, Blissey essentially covers all of Cloyster's special attacking weaknesses due to her absurd HP and Special Defense stats. Celebi is another good teammate that can take on many of Cloyster's common switch-ins such as Snorlax and Water-types. Additionally, the combination of Celebi, Swampert, and Cloyster have nearly perfect synergy. The aforementioned defensive core also tends to force a lot of switches, which makes full use of Cloyster's Spikes.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As mentioned earlier, Cloyster's movepool is incredibly mediocre. Toxic can be used over Explosion or Surf to cripple a switch-in, but many of Cloyster's switch-ins have Rest, including Dusclops and Curse Snorlax, or Natural Cure, such as Starmie. Hidden Power Electric is useful for making Cloyster a better Gyarados check. Other than Toxic and Hidden Power Electric, stick to the given set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Defeating Cloyster should not be a daunting task. Firstly, Cloyster's Special Defense stat is awful. Next, check to see if your team has any special attackers. If you have a special attacker, then it can probably beat Cloyster. Even bulky Water-types such as Milotic and Swampert will defeat Cloyster if you bombard it with Surf or Hydro Pump. When fighting Cloyster with a bulky Water-type, beware of a random Explosion, as it will defeat you without remorse, with the exception of Suicune. Starmie is one of the better special attackers to check Cloyster because it can switch into any of Cloyster's moves, bar Explosion, Rapid Spin away Spikes, and defeat Cloyster with Psychic, Thunderbolt, or a couple of Surfs. Remember, when checking Cloyster with a special attacker to beware of Explosion. If for some reason your team lacks a special attack, don't worry too much. Toxic is a great, albeit passive, way to deal with Cloyster. Toxic forces Cloyster to use Explosion earlier, limits the time Cloyster supports its team, and makes it easier for your other physical sweepers to sweep. Despite Cloyster's titanic Defense stat, there are physical attacks that can still break its shell. Dragon Dance Tyranitar, arguably the largest threat in ADV OU, can 2HKO Cloyster with Rock Slide while surviving Ice Beam and an Explosion. Over an extended period of time, Aerodactyl can defeat Cloyster with a series of STAB Rock Slides. Curse Snorlax can take any special attack Cloyster throws at it and can survive an Explosion if it is at +2 Defense. Fighting-types such as Medicham, Heracross, Machamp, Blaziken, and Hariyama can easily defeat Cloyster with Brick Break or Focus Punch. Mixed attackers including Metagross and Tyranitar make for excellent checks, as they resist Explosion, can take an Ice Beam, and can demolish Cloyster with Hidden Power Grass. All in all, any competent team should be able to defeat Cloyster.</p>

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  23. Danilo

    Danilo
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    done go uploaddd
  24. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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