1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Cloyster (Full Revamp)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by complete legitimacy, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,135
    [​IMG]
    Cloyster
    Credits go to zdrup15 for the original analysis and also to yee for the utility set. A special thanks to Nachos for updating the Checks and Counters section. I updated the Shell Smash set and also rewrote Other Options.

    [Overview]

    <p>With the introduction of BW, Cloyster received a gift it could only have dreamed of: Shell Smash. With one of the best boosting moves around, the clam now finds itself being able to perform an entirely different role as of the most threatening sweepers around. Taking Cloyster's Skill Link ability into account, it can abuse a 125 Base Power Icicle Spear and Rock Blast at +2 Attack, that will destroy anything that doesn't resist them. Its Water-type move of choice also makes sure that Steel-types aren't surefire counters, as a +2 STAB Hydro Pump or Razor Shell will inflict huge damage to most of them.</p>

    <p>However, Cloyster isn't without its flaws. Its Ice typing provides it with a crippling weakness to Stealth Rock, as well as the often-seen priority moves such as Mach Punch. With Conkeldurr and Lucario in the tier, one has to make sure they are eliminated first or Cloyster won't be able to sweep after setting up. Cloyster also has some troubles getting past bulky Water-types, such as Jellicent and Vaporeon, that can burn or phaze it and thus, prevent a sweep.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Icicle Spear
    move 3: Rock Blast
    move 4: Hydro Pump / Razor Shell
    item: White Herb / Life Orb
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Naive / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Cloyster's main set is one that can sweep most teams with ease; in fact, it's a liability to have a bulky Ground-type when your opponent has a Cloyster. This set is best used on an offensive team, where other sweepers can open up holes in defensive cores for Cloyster to take advantage of. Shell Smash is the crux of this set, doubling Cloyster's Attack, Special Attack, and Speed to threatening levels. Icicle Spear is the perfect move for Cloyster; because of Skill Link, it will always hit five times, effectively making it a 125 Base Power STAB move. Rock Blast offers great coverage with Icicle Spear, hitting Fire-, Water-, and Ice-types for at least neutral damage. In the last slot, either Hydro Pump or Razor Shell are acceptable. Hydro Pump is the preferred option for getting past Skarmory, Scizor, Forretress, and Metagross, since it hits their weaker Special Defense; however, Razor Shell will destroy Tyranitar and Heatran without fail, as they both commonly run specially defensive sets.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Speed investment allows Cloyster to outspeed Scarf Latios with Hidden Power Fire and Modest Venusaur in the sun, among other things. Full investment in Attack bolsters the power of Icicle Spear, Rock Blast, and Razor Shell greatly, while the remaining EVs are thrown into Special Attack to slightly boost the power of Hydro Pump. A Naive nature boosts Speed while not detracting from Hydro Pump's power, but if you are using Razor Shell, a Jolly nature is the way to go. Likewise, if you are not using Hydro Pump, the 4 EVs can instead go into HP. White Herb is the preferred item on this set, as it restores Cloyster's godly Defense and Special Defense, cushioning it from priority attacks such as a Scizor Bullet Punch or a Conkeldurr Mach Punch. However, Cloyster does get some notable KOs with a Life Orb, such as Ferrothorn with Icicle Spear and bulky Rotom-W with Rock Blast. White Herb is usually superior, as Cloyster often doesn't need the extra power and lowering its defenses makes it more susceptible to priority. Other items are viable on Cloyster as well, however. Focus Sash allows Cloyster set up on even the most powerful of special attackers, but due to the abundance of entry hazards, Sandstorm, and priority, Focue Sash is easily broken. King's Rock gives both Icicle Spear and Rock Blast a 41% flinch rate, giving Cloyster the chance to even get past its short list of checks. An Icicle Plate can also work as an alternative to Life Orb, as it still allows Cloyster to pick up the OHKO on Ferrothorn without the recoil damage.</p>

    <p>If using Cloyster on a sun team, Hidden Power Fire should be used instead of the Water-type attack, as it can hit Steel-types while getting pseudo-STAB. However, this leaves Cloyster walled by Heatran, which already gives sun teams problems, so using Cloyster on a sun team is not recommended. However, using Cloyster in conjunction with rain support from Politoed is an excellent decision. By boosting the power of Hydro Pump or Razor Shell, rain allows Cloyster to defeat checks such as Conkeldurr, Jirachi, specially defensive Jirachi, specially defensive Forretress (believe it or not, Volt Switch actually OHKOes), and Magnezone after it sets up.</p>

    <p>Dual screens are also great support for Cloyster; with Reflect up, Cloyster can survive Jolly Choice Band Terrakion's Close Combat, even after one layer of Spikes. Espeon is a fantastic partner, as its ability, Magic Bounce, prevents hazards or Taunt from being used, which gives Cloyster an easier time setting up. Entry hazard support is also greatly appreciated, as with just Stealth Rock up, Cloyster can OHKO Choice Scarf Rotom-W and Choice Scarf Politoed most of the time. Both Forretress and Ferrothorn have good synergy, but Forretress can also utilize Rapid Spin to aid Cloyster. Another useful teammate is Magnezone, since it can trap and KO troublesome Pokemon such as Scizor, Jirachi, and Ferrothorn, giving Cloyster a much easier time sweeping.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Icicle Spear
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    move 4: Surf / Ice Shard
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Relaxed / Impish
    evs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p> While Cloyster is normally used as a Shell Smash sweeper, it has a unique niche defensively. This set focuses on its base 180 Defense and utility moves in a way similar to Forretress; in exchange for a less useful defensive typing, you gain a significantly better attacking capability. STAB Icicle Spear takes out threats such as Dragonite, Substitute Gliscor, and Sturdy Level 1 Aron.</p>

    <p>Icicle Spear remains the biggest selling point of Cloyster, since it receives a STAB boost and will always hit five times thanks to Skill Link. Rapid Spin may seem like an ineffective choice when Cloyster is both affected by all entry hazards and is 2x weak to Stealth Rock, but it often finds opportunities to spin hazards away against physical tanks and many physical attackers on offensive teams. Spikes or Toxic Spikes should be used to soften up the opponents team or when a bulky Ghost-type switches in, but using both is inadvisable; Cloyster fills its niche more effectively with another attacking move and will certainly not have the opportunity to set up both hazards. Surf is a good secondary STAB move to broaden coverage against Steel-types, Fire-types, and Mamoswine, but Ice Shard is also useful to pick up a possible KO on Gengar and to revenge kill threats such as Dragon-types and Landorus.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The following calculations demonstrate Cloyster's excellent physical bulk.</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+1 Adamant Dragonite Outrage vs. Cloyster 52.8-62.7%</li>
    <li>Jolly Terrakion Close Combat- 63.4-75.2%</li>
    <li>Jolly Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat- 81.8-97%</li>
    <li>Adamant Breloom Focus Punch- 87.1-103%</li>
    <li>Ferrothorn Power Whip- 39.6-47.5%</li>
    <li>Specially Defensive Tyranitar Superpower- 36.3-42.9%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>The EV spread gives Cloyster an extra point in Defense and allows it to obtain a few notable KOs. Assuming you have Stealth Rock and hail on the field, Icicle Spear will OHKO Gengar, 2HKO standard Gastrodon, and 3HKO standard Ferrothorn. While the Attack EVs provide Cloyster with a little more power, you also have the option of adding more Defense. 16 SpD EVs guarantee that Cloyster will survive Dragon Pulse from an unboosted 4 SpA EVs Latias.</p>

    <p>On sun teams, Hidden Power Fire is an excellent secondary attacking move; it is the ideal attack against Steel-types such as Scizor, Skarmory, and Forretress. Rain gives Surf more power, but Cloyster is then outclassed by Tentacruel and Starmie, who do better on rain teams. Rock Blast can make further use of Skill Link, hitting Pokemon such as Gyarados and Volcarona hard. Razor Shell may replace Surf as a secondary STAB move, but it doesn’t hit physically bulky Steel-types such as Skarmory and Forretress hard. Lastly, Clamp or Whirlpool can be used to prevent direct switching, which may help keep momentum in your favor. However, the popularity of “Volt-Turn” tactics makes these moves less viable.</p>

    <p>To maximize Cloyster's utility, it should be used only on hail, sun, or weatherless teams, as sand and rain teams are better off using other Rapid Spin users. The main thing to remember when fitting this Cloyster into a team is that a resisted Surf is as threatening to Cloyster as a super effective Close Combat; in other words, you can’t rely on Cloyster to check special attackers at all. Nidoqueen is an excellent defensive partner who not only covers three of Cloyster's weaknesses, but also absorbs Toxic Spikes, giving Cloyster more opportunities to switch in. Latias and Celebi are also ideal partners for Cloyster; they also cover three of its weaknesses, sponge special attacks that plague Cloyster, and take advantage of Cloyster's Ice-type resistance.</p>

    <p>Function-wise, Abomasnow and Ninetales are great partners; the former gives Cloyster the advantage of robbing its opponents of Leftovers recovery, while the latter allows Hidden Power Fire to be used as a solid secondary attack. A spinblocker is a good teammate to help preserve Cloyster’s hazards. Jellicent is generally the best option because it boasts more resistances than other defensive Ghost-types, which is very important considering Cloyster only resists Water- and Ice-type moves.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Explosion could see use on one of Cloyster's sets, but with the mechanics change in BW, Explosion is much less effective and is better off not being used. Toxic could also get some use on the utility set to wear down bulky Water-types, but Cloyster will take large damage, even from their resisted attacks, due to its poor Special Defense, leaving Cloyster unable to effectively stall them out. Also, a Choice Scarf set can come in handy for checking faster threats such as Dragonite, Landorus, Virizion, Tornadus, Latios, and Infernape, among others. However, it is generally not recommended, as Cloyster's lack of power is usually its downfall without Shell Smash to boost its stats.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Being part Ice-type is a double-edged sword for Cloyster. On one hand, it gains an awesome STAB move, on the other, it takes 25% damage from Stealth Rock whenever it switches in, and is liable to being hit by both Spikes and Toxic Spikes. For this reason, having Stealth Rock on the field is a good first answer to Cloyster. A Bullet Punch from Choice Band Scizor will 2HKO Cloyster after it has taken Stealth Rock damage, while the only thing Cloyster can do back is Hydro Pump, which fails to OHKO Scizor even at +2, leaving aside the fact that it has shaky accuracy; if rain is up however, Scizor will be easily OHKOed. Conkeldurr will 2HKO offensive Cloyster with Mach Punch as well. Vaccum Wave Lucario is another option to deal with Cloyster; as Vacuum Wave hits its pitiful Special Defense, and Lucario will easily KO if it holds a Life Orb. As Cloyster is incredibly fast after Shell Smash, there aren't many Choice Scarf users that can outspeed it after it gets a boost. However, Latios can do so and will send the clam back to the ocean with Draco Meteor.</p>

    <p>Generally speaking, bulky Water-types and Steel-types can handle Cloyster. Bulky Rotom-W resists Cloyster's STAB moves, and isn't too fussed about Rock Blast. It can promptly OHKO the clam with Thunderbolt, making it a good switch-in to Cloyster in general. Jellicent and Tentacruel also have the possibility to annoy Cloyster greatly. Both can use Scald on Cloyster and hope for a burn, they also have other options that can put a damper on Cloyster's life. Will-O-Wisp from Jellicent will help prevent Cloyster from being a huge problem, and Tentacruel's option is Toxic, which will quickly wear Cloyster down when used in tandem with Protect. Slowbro is another bulky Water-type who can tank anything that Cloyster can throw at it, and target its weaker Special Defense stat with Psychic or Flamethrower. It can also use Thunder Wave on Cloyster to cripple it. Skarmory can't do much to Cloyster, but can Whirlwind it out to prevent the immediate problem. This is significant due to the fact that Cloyster usually carries a White Herb, and Cloyster is extremely vulnerable later on in the game without its White Herb. Defensive Jirachi can quite easily take Cloyster's Water STAB move, and retaliate with Thunderbolt on a Calm Mind version or Body Slam and Iron Head on a physical Jirachi. Ferrothorn can take a +2 Icicle Spear, and either hit back with Power Whip or cripple Cloyster with Thunder Wave. Thanks to Unaware ignoring Shell Smash boosts, Quagsire can take Icicle Spear nicely and Toxic Cloyster back, or even hope to burn it with Scald. A slightly unusual but effective option to deal with Cloyster is specially defensive Heatran; if Hydro Pump is favored over Razor Shell on Cloyster, it will be unable to OHKO Heatran even at +2. In return, Heatran will OHKO Cloyster after it's taken Stealth Rock damage with Lava Plume. Take note that if rain is up, Heatran will be decimated by any Water-type move from Cloyster.</p>

    <p>In the event that you either don't have a check to Cloyster or it is knocked out in the game, Cloyster may pose a larger threat. In that case, your best bet is to simply prevent Cloyster setting up by any means possible. This can be done by not leaving something in that Cloyster can easily set up upon after something on your opponent's team dies, or by setting up as many hazards as you can so all of your Pokemon can later stand a chance against it. One should take note not to underestimate Cloyster. Should the opponent lack any strong answer to Cloyster, this clam can become one of the most dangerous Pokemon to face in OU in a single turn.</p>
  2. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,005
    I strongly suggest you make Razon Shell the main water move in the SS set and mentioning adamant and focus sash as well.

    Also Scizor outside of the rain is never a OHKO with +2 Razor Shell so it should be listed a counter as well.
  3. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,135
    With Hydro Pump you lose the ability to assuredly beat Tyranitar and Heatran, but you beat much more important things such as Skarmory who would otherwise wall you, Scizor (see what I did there), Forretress, Conkeldurr, Magnezone, and Metagross. If it may not look convincing, then I urge you to try it yourself, as playtesting > theory. I have used both extensively and I definitely feel that Hydro Pump is the superior option.
  4. asterat

    asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    966
    Most of thpose mentioned threats are still getting KOed by surf
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    OK nice outline of the Shell Smash set, complete legitimacy. I would stick with max Spe, though, as it allows Cloyster to outrun Scarfed HP Fire Latios, which is pretty much as fast as Scarfers gets (except for non-HP Fire Latios, which outruns Cloyster).
  6. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,781
    Agreeing with Pocket. It's not like 3 more points in Special Attack is going to net you extra kills in this case or anything. Also, add Blizzard to the AC of the Utility set for when you're using Cloyster on a hail team.
  7. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,303
    • Empoleon resists all of Cloyster's moves and OHKOs with Grass Knot
    • Dual Screens are greatly appreciated; with them a +2 Adamant Life Orb Sawsbuck Horn Leech will only 2HKO
    I would take these out as both are UU Pokemon and not commonly seen in OU. A dual screen mention is OK, but you should use a better example.


    I also agree with Pocket that using max speed is better than using 12 random HP/SpA EVs that don't achieve anything.


    King's Rock could get a mention in AC, because Icicle Spear and Rock Blast get a 41% flinch chance this way but i am not too sure if its really worth it.
  8. xDarrylx

    xDarrylx

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    As rare as they are, Choice Scarf Latios can stop Cloyster without max speed investment. Also, it should be mentioned that Magnezone and Politoed make good partners, as Magnezone can help to trap Steel-types that wall Cloyster while Politoed can boost Cloyster's Water-type STAB.
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Yea, Magnezone is a very useful teammate for Shell Smash Cloyster; it not only removes the defensive Steel-types, but it also removes Scizor, whose strong Bullet Punch can end Cloyster's sweep.
  10. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    689
    Following up on what BurningMan mentioned, I think Espeon would be a suitable partner for Cloyster as a dual screen-er, since it helps out with Cloyster's Stealth Rock weakness and can lure in and beat Scizor with HP Fire.
  11. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,124
    It's mentioned in the utility set, but I really think HP Fire deserves a note on the Shell Smash set - and not just on sun teams. Hydro Pump is stronger in neutral weather, but +2 HP Fire gets the OHKO on Scizor and Ferrothorn, and has greater accuracy. Leaves you walled by Heatran though.
  12. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,685
    Doesn't a +2 Icicle Spear have a shot at OHKOing Ferrothorn anyways? And a +2 Hydro Pump OHKOes Scizor, right?
  13. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¡YA HA!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,781
    Hydro Pump deals more damage to Pokemon such as Jirach and Magnezone too. Icicle Spear 2HKOs Ferrothorn, and it can OHKO with Life Orb and some entry hazards. Scizor is demolished by Hydro Pump anyway. Also, having no Water STAB is not good, especially when rain teams are so common in the metagame (it would weaken HP Fire too).
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Nah Hydro Pump does less than Razor Shell against specially defensive Jirachi, sadly:

    Razor Shell after Shell Smash: 49-57%
    Hydro Pump after Shell Smash: 40-47%

    Razor Shell has a really high chance to OHKO specially defensive Heatran with Razor Shell but not with Hydro Pump. Same story with Tyranitar. Razor Shell does have its place in taking out these specially-defensive mons. If you're aiming for a physical Wall breaker, than by all means go with Hydro Pump :d.
  15. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,135
    Okay, I ran some calcs, and you're not really missing any key OHKOs with Stealth Rock. Changed to max Speed, as Life Orb will do more than 12 EVs ever could.



    Empoleon is mentioned because it is the only true counter to Shell Smash Cloyster. Specially defensive Jirachi is arguably its best common check, put Pocket's calcs show that it can't switch into a +2 Razor Shell safely.

    I agree with you on the second thing, and it turns out that with no investment and Reflect up, you survive a Jolly Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat even after one layer of Spikes.

    I was considering putting this in, but I never did. I will now, though, as that is pretty convincing.

    Both good ideas and added.

    Also added.

    In neutral weather, Magnezone can easily take out both of those Pokemon with no problems at all. In the sun, I don't really recommend using Shell Smash Cloyster since if use HP Fire, you are walled by Heatran, who gives sun teams problems already. You would really just be better off using something with Chlorophyll since most of them can outrun even Scarf Latios without setting up, and they can get arguably better coverage as well.

    While I see where you're coming from, what would Blizzard hit that Icicle Spear doesn't? Icicle Spear even has higher base power, also coming off a higher base stat and some investment.



    Also, I don't recommend an Adamant nature. If you want more power, use a Life Orb. And Surf actually misses a lot of the important KOs that Hydro Pump gets.
  16. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,005
    Adamant Nature is needed to secure those important kills and especially for the neutral hitting Rock Blast and is a standard on most sets. Life Orb just means cloyster will get revenged by Scizor the very next turn.


    There should be two sets other than utility, one for physically offensive and the other mixed.
  17. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,303
    Could you give some examples for he important KOs you get with Adamant?
    Because missing out on Scarf base 100s sucks.

    I also don't think a mixed set is really necessary cloysters needs all the power it can get with its base 95/85 attacking stats and dropping speed is also something that isn't advisable imo going mixed would just make you easier to wall/revenge kill and doesn't sounds desireable to me.
  18. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,005
    Rotom-W Choice Scarf 95.4% - 114.1% Rock Blast
    Conkeldurr Bulk Up 99.75% - 118.1% Icicle Spear


    I mentioned these two because I want to bring examples where if you fail to kill certain pokemon Cloyster is doomed. And by mixed I mean a set with Rock Blast, Icile Spear and Hydro Pump and another physical set with Razor shell instead of Hydro Pump.


    Shell Smash Mixed

    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Icicle Spear
    move 3: Rock Blast
    move 4: Hydro Pump
    item: White Herb / Focus Sash
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe



    Shell Smash Physical Attacker

    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Icicle Spear
    move 3: Rock Blast
    move 4: Razor Shell
    item: White Herb / Focus Sash
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


  19. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    X5Dragon, Conkeldurr and Scarf Rotom-W are both OHKO range with SR support. Jolly / Naive is the way to go :o

    Mixed and Physical set are not much different to warrant separate sets, imo. If you really want to separate them, I'd probably invest more in SpA to ensure an OHKO on specially-defensive Heatran.

    EDIT: also agreeing with harsha and X5Dragon that Cloyster finds it very difficult to make use of Life Orb's boost combined with the defense falls and the LO recoil. I think Life Orb only hinders Cloysters sweep than enhancing it tbh.
  20. Harsha

    Harsha
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,171
    Does Life Orb deserve a mention on the Shell Smash set? I feel like it's never the item of choice, as most of the time Cloyster will have to face a check while setting up. I think White Herb is always the way to go, and LO can go in the AC. Those are just my thoughts, though.
  21. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,135
    Since when are bulky Grounds and unboosted Dragons checks to Cloyster?
  22. Harsha

    Harsha
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,171
    I mean that people will send out checks while you Shell Smash.
  23. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,135
    What checks? Nothing common can beat Shell Smash Cloyster 1 on 1. Scizor is KOed, Scarf Rotom is usually KOed after Stealth Rock, Ferrothorn can be KOed with Life Orb. Add that to the fact that Cloyster outspeeds literally everything after a Shell Smash.

    Mach Punch can be somewhat problematic, but how common are those anymore? Vacuum Wave is nonexistent as well.
  24. Harsha

    Harsha
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,171
    Oh, wow. I didn't realize that he had near 500 Speed after an SS. That's impressive. I guess you can forget what I said. Then again, Life Orb could weaken Cloyster for priority users to step in. But I can see why it's up there.
  25. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,122
    Actually, Magnezone beats Cloyster 1 on 1 if it doesn't carry a LO- or Water Gem-boosted Hydro Pump. It can't switch in on any attack (which I realize is the point of a counter, but come on, after +2 I'm pretty sure its counters are Eviolite Dusclops and Registeel), but it can come in on the SS or on the revenge and there's not really anything Cloyster can do if it doesn't have Hydro Pump.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)