1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Cloyster (Utility) [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by yee, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
    [​IMG]

    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/cloyster

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Icicle Spear
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    move 4: Surf / Ice Shard
    ability: Skill Link
    nature: Relaxed / Impish
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Cloyster is normally used as a Shell Smasher, it has a unique niche defensively as well. This set focuses on its base 180 Defense and utility moves in a way similar to Forretress, but in exchange for a less useful defensive typing you gain significantly more attacking capability. STAB Icicle Spear takes out threats such as Dragonite, Substitute Gliscor, and Sturdy Level 1 Aron.</p>

    <p>Icicle Spear remains the biggest selling point of Cloyster. Shell Smash, STAB, and Skill Link make up for its lack of resistances. Rapid Spin may seem like an ineffective choice when Cloyster is affected by all entry hazards and 2x weak to Stealth Rock, but it often finds opportunities to spin hazards away against physically attacking tanks, and many physical attackers on offensive teams. Spikes or Toxic Spikes should be used to soften up the opponents team or when a bulky Ghost-type switches in, but using both is inadvisable. Cloyster fills its niche more effectively with another attacking move and will certainly not have the opportunity to set up both hazards. Surf is a good secondary STAB move to broaden coverage against Steel-types, Fire-types, and Mamoswine. Ice Shard is also useful to pick up a possible KO on Gengar and to revenge kill threats such as Dragons and Landorus.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Here are a few calculations to show just how bulky Cloyster is on the physical side.</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>+1 Adamant Dragonite Outrage vs. Cloyster 52.8-62.7%</li>
    <li>Jolly Terrakion Close Combat- 63.4-75.2%</li>
    <li>Jolly Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat- 81.8-97%</li>
    <li>Adamant Breloom Focus Punch- 87.1-103%</li>
    <li>Ferrothorn Power Whip- 39.6-47.5%</li>
    <li>Specially Defensive Tyranitar Superpower- 36.3-42.9%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>The EV spread gives Cloyster a jump point in Defense and allows it to obtain a few notable KOs. Assuming you have Stealth Rock and hail on the field, Icicle Spear will OHKO Gengar, 2HKO standard Gastrodon, and 3HKO standard Ferrothorn. If you are not running hail, the power is still useful and can get the job done on those Pokemon, but you also have the option of adding more defense. 16 SpD EVs guarantee that Cloyster will survive Dragon Pulse from an unboosted 4 SpA EVs Latias.</p>

    <p>On sun teams, Hidden Power Fire is an excellent secondary attacking move; it is the ideal attack against Steel-types such as Scizor, Skarmory, and Forretress. Rain gives Surf more power, but Tentacruel and Starmie are usually better choices for rain teams. Rock Blast can make further use of Skill Link, hitting Pokemon such as Gyarados and Volcarona hard. Razor Shell may replace Surf as a secondary STAB move, but it doesn’t hit physically bulky Steel-types such as Skarmory and Forretress as hard. Lastly, Clamp or Whirlpool can be used to prevent direct switching, which may help keep momentum in your favor. However, the popularity of “Volt-Turn” tactics makes these moves less viable.</p>

    <p>To maximize Cloyster's utility, it should be used only on hail, sun or weatherless teams, as sand and rain teams are better off using other Rapid Spinners. The main thing to remember when fitting this Cloyster into a team is that a resisted Surf is as threatening to Cloyster as a super effective Close Combat; in other words, you can’t rely on Cloyster to check special attackers at all. Nidoqueen is an excellent defensive partner who not only covers 3 of Cloyster's weaknesses, but also absorbs Toxic Spikes, giving Cloyster more switch-in opportunities. Latias and Celebi are also ideal partners for Cloyster; they cover 3 of its weaknesses, sponge special attacks that plague Cloyster can't take, and take advantage of Cloyster's Ice-type resistance in return.</p>

    <p>Function-wise, Abomasnow and Ninetails are great partners; the former gives Cloyster the advantage of Leftovers recovery in a metagame that lacks Ice-types, while the latter allows HP Fire to be used as a solid secondary attack. A spinblocker is a good teammate to help preserve Cloyster’s hazards. Jellicent is generally the best option because it boasts more resistances than other defensive Ghost-types, which is very important considering Cloyster only resists Water- and Ice-type moves. Lastly, an alternate spinner, Prankster Taunt, or even Magic Coat user can be useful because Deoxys-S has become an incredibly common hazard lead and has no problem killing Cloyster with Psycho Boost or Thunderbolt.</p>
  2. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,155
    I can definitely vouch for this set. Cloyster may not have the best typing or special defense, but it does a great job at stomping on Dragonite, Haxorus, and physical stuff in general. Plus, it's a nice surprise, and catches people who expect shell smash off guard.
  3. Aeromence

    Aeromence

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    456
    after I saw your RMT, I tested this guy out and I loved it. very bulky (BAN ME PLEASE), and I still use it as a spinner every now and then.
  4. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    622
    I too can vouch for this set. I used what yee put back in the original Cloyster analysis thread a while ago with great effectiveness. Mind you, my experience comes from back when Garchomp was still OU, but it was the perfect thing to stop the SubChomp that ran rampant, as well as Dragonites, SubStalling Gliscor, and level 1 Arons (lol). I don't know how much my vouching counts, but when I used this set it was amazing and in my opinion definitely deserves at least some sort of good mentioning on the analysis, as it's a niche only Cloyster can fill.
  5. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
    Thanks for the support guys! It's cool to see that I'm not the only one who has had the chance to experience Cloyster's strength in this niche.
  6. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,609
    My interest is piqued. I'll just test it to be sure.

    Few things:
    • Is there a reason Toxic is there? Granted, Cloyster is probably going to run into certain walls, but the only relevant defensive Pokemon in OU that trouble Cloyster into using Toxic are Jellicent and Porygon2. All other walls, such as Ferrothorn and Gastrodon, are promptly 2HKOed by 84 Atk Icicle Spear (a pleasant surprise!).
    • A thing this has over other defensive Pokemon is the ability to hit other defensive Pokemon hard (like the 2HKOes I mentioned above), so you should probably mention those.
    • I'd be more comfortable if you mentioned some form defensive snyergy, as Cloyster doesn't exactly have many switch-in opportunities.
  7. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
    Thanks AccidentalGreed, I was a bit lacking in ideas to elaborate on to make a full analysis, and I'll be sure to write out your bullet points.

    Toxic is literally just slashed because I figured it would be a cool option for Jellicent. I have never used it but I expected to get a lot of criticism for being Jelli weak, so I slashed it in.

    Icicle Spear can 3HKO Ferro under hail, and to my surprise 252/4 def Gastro actually does have a shot of getting 2HKOed after rocks (very likely with hail)! I'll mention those calcs.
  8. Birkal

    Birkal CAW
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,637
    While this set is awesome (taking out MS Dragonite as a Rapid Spinner of all things is mmmmmmmmmmmmmmtasty), I fear how it handles the Fighting-types that are rampant in OU, most specifically Machamp, Bulk Up (or DD) Scrafty, and Bulk Up Conkeldurr. The first can go to town with DynamicPunch while the others get a chance to set up. Furthermore, pitting Cloyster against Terrakion is risky business, since they often run Choice Band sets that make a clean OHKO.

    Also, it should be highly emphasized that Cloyster CANNOT take Special Attacks; it is simply too frail. Timid Gengar's Shadow Ball (not Focus Blast), is a OHKO guaranteed, even without Stealth Rock. Magnezone without any investment can survive Icicle Spear (4HKO, in fact), and OHKO (again, uninvested) with Volt Switch. As a whole, I love Cloyster as a Rapid Spinner; it can certainly carry some offensive weight while tanking some of the hardest physical hits in today's metagame. However, it should be emphasized that this sets role is a niche. Special Attacks maim it and it isn't nearly as powerful as its Shell Smash variant. Good luck with the write up!
  9. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
    I'll list distinguished hazards as an option, but I have had Rapid Spin work many times. It's best use is spinning the hazards away as Skarmory/Donphan/Bronzong etc. is setting them up, you can't always spin on the setter but it'll last long enough to get the spin off, if you have a T Spikes absorber, WishBliss, stuff along those lines keeping Cloyster healthy is possible. Running another spinner/Magic Mirror Mon is an efficient way to support this set as well so I'll give mentions.
  10. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    Ive used this set with great succes. Add Ice shard as an option to the 4th slot for obvious reason, otherwise Im happy that other people used and appreciated this set :) Great support for offensive teams !
  11. Luxpluff91

    Luxpluff91

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,216
    I dont really like Cloyster as a Rapid Spinner for reasons explained above (vulnerable to all of them and weak to SR), but this certainly deserves a mention. I'd run both hazards over Rapid Spin
  12. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    758
    actually, this set is pretty effective; probably the only pokemon that can counter lum berry DD nite on the metagame.
  13. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
    I'm getting a lot more support than I expected thanks again everyone :) I'll let QC decide what to do with the 4th slot, Water STAB or Ice Shard are my personal choices.
  14. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,647
    I feel like I'm missing something, but why are you running Surf instead of Razor Shell or Waterfall? Razor Shell's defense drops in particular, plus Cloyster's higher Attack stat would deal more damage on average.
  15. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    A water STAB is limited. The only one would be to hit fire mons but they will all take more from Rock Blast, except Heatran who kill and outspeeds Cloyster anyway. The ground or rock mons will only take a little bit more than with Icicle Spear. However, it can be useful if running a few speed evs to outspeed defensive Heatran and Tyranitar and, maybe, 2HKO on the switch. It could be very useful since Cloyster can't really spin against those 2 SRers. In that case, Waterfall or Razor shell would be better than Surf/Hydro pump, as November Blue said
  16. Basti

    Basti

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    133
    This set looks like it has a lot of potential, just because of cloyster's extreme physical bulk.

    I know it sounds iffy, but hp fire could stop scizor, forretress and maybe even ferrothorn from setting up on you. (eventhough you probably wont be getting closer then a 3HKO on ferro)
  17. sirndpt

    sirndpt too cool for a custom title
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,118
    seconding Basti to say this guy is an extremely underrated spinner on sun of all things. even with a hindering nature pseudo-STAB HP Fire solidly 2KOes Ferro and Skarm, and OHKOes Forry and most Scizor; taking out dragons and Dragonite in particular is just the icing on the cake.
  18. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,609
    HP fire is a fantastic option on sun teams. Many spinners do not utilize fire moves effectively on sun teams, but cloyster fits the bill perfectly.

    Awesome great technology ^.^. Excellent job Basti!
  19. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
    Actually, I have used HP Fire on this set on a sun team more than once, and I will mention it as the best secondary attacking option for a sun team.
  20. Camisado

    Camisado

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    134
    Is Scald worth mentioning?
  21. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,147
    I think HP Fire should could get a mention in AC.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)

    Lol cloyster doesn't learn scald. (smh)
  22. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
    Alright thanks PK Gaming :)
  23. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    I fully support this set. It is a more potent spiker than the usuals because you CAN'T set up against cloyster. Multi-hit moves break subs, and Dragonite / Terakion won't bother setting up against you.
  24. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,609
    Don't forget to mention Skill Link, since that's the only thing making Cloyster threatening at all.
  25. yee

    yee
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
    Oh yeah I should probably put that as the primary ability now!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)