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Clues in mafia games

Discussion in 'Office of Strategic Influence' started by K2000, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. K2000

    K2000

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    Since I joined here a few days ago, the mafia games I have seen are all non-clue, while I have played one before I have mainly played clue mafias, so since I have been getting a bit of trouble over them in wolf power thread I decided to make this topic. So what do you think about clue mafia games, have you played one before, or is this term totally new to you. Just in case it is new to you I've put a a short list of things done in clue mafias below.

    What happens in clue mafias:

    • You sign up using a sign up form (like below)
    Code:
     Username:
    Avatar url:
    Signature:
    • You also have a bank of all avatars and sigs to help in the clue solving
    • At night when someone kills they leave behind a clue, Janitors leave behind harder clues
    • If you tell anyone your role and the host finds out you are godkilled
    These are just basic rules, there are more but as I said these are the main ones
  2. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
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    Sorry, but on Smogon, people constantly change their signatures and avatars.

    And never being allowed to tell your role? Telling your role is a deeply buried aspect in Smogon Mafia.
  3. the interwebs

    the interwebs

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    clue mafia is quite an interesting idea.

    it wouldn't work on main forum, like lady salamence pointed out.
    but on a separate forum set-up for the game (this happens often), it would work very nicely.
  4. GTS

    GTS

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    On the forums, yes they change
    but on the side forums, the ones the Brain hosts, you cannot change your avatar, so this idea could definitely work there. Or perhaps just a rule that players cannot change their avatar during gameplay or face a godkill.

    i've never played anything like this, but it sounds interesting, at least.
  5. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
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    I know the ones on Brain's website are unchangable, but I'm talking about on Smogon.

    It's an awesome idea, and could be hosted on Brain's forum(s).
  6. Layell

    Layell Alas poor Yorick, I knew him, Bolin!
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    Me from the wolf topic:

    I'd like to take this moment and say that clues are total bullshit since in the first Pokemon Mafia when I was ControllerOfFlames the first clue could be google searched and turned up as the fire energy card.

    I was boned.

    ______________

    Therefore I am quite apprehensive to the idea. It is horribly slanted towards the mafia groups and there needs to be some sort of way to have a clue interpreted in multiple ways. Also the dispensing of clues seems rather trivial and there is no way to be certain if the host is just dropping obvious clues because they want someone killed.

    If there was one role in a game where a clue could be dropped if this "Cluemaster" could predict the person being killed and have that clue broadcast it would add a more strategic part to the game. The way I see a host would need 2 or 3 clues for each person that isn't immediately ruined by a fucking google images search.

    If it was an anonymous mafia on another forums then the clues could be well planned out before sign-ups, which would make an easier approval for the mods since they'll know if the clues aren't a load of crap.
  7. K2000

    K2000

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    Hence the bank, once you have signed up you can't change till the rest of the places are filled, but then you can since clues are based on what's in the bank. I know some hosts that will godkill you for changing during a game but most don't any more due to the bank.

    Also (@Lewell) who do you think would be biased in a mafia game, it would be a stupid childish thing to do, on ONM we have many 'mafia grudges' but a host never makes a clue to easy (I've only seen that once, and that was because the mafia asked for it to be easer), also there is no way to make the clues till people sign up since clues are based on sigs, avatart url and other infomation to do with the player.

    Also if any of you want to have a look at a clue mafia game just say and I'll post some links for you, and just to wrap this up I have seen clues been so great that links to other players (villagers) have been found that even are most experienced players have believed them to be the right answer.
  8. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
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    Yes, some links would be nice.
  9. K2000

    K2000

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  10. Layell

    Layell Alas poor Yorick, I knew him, Bolin!
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    I guess you didn't see what I wrote, because I was talking about anonymous mafia, where a separate forum is created and everyone has a private identity so users aren't auto killed because we know they are good/bad at mafia.

    In that case making clues would be possible beforehand, and would be much more interesting since you can determine the clues all ahead of time.

    Also it's Layell.
  11. K2000

    K2000

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    Sorry about getting your name wrong (I am new after all), but I simple had a guess at what a anonymous mafia, and I got it wrong, I've only heard of clue and no-clue mafias before, this anonymous game sounds ok though.
  12. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
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    Anonymous mafia is where you get an account on a separate forum, and you don't tell who you are on Smogon
  13. K2000

    K2000

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    Ok then, sounds like a normal game, just with all new faces.
  14. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
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    However, from my studies (lol) of anonymous games, the way you type, your personality, and other stuff can give you away.

    for example, if i tried to lead the village, i'm probably unclesam
  15. K2000

    K2000

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    Well of course it would, the trick to them would be to type and act like someone else, or just try not to have a personality. Anyway can we get back on topic here please.
  16. Daenym

    Daenym

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    The problem with this game isn't the avatar/sig thing. Like K2000 said, there's the sig bank or whatever. And that can easily be replaced by a combination of image/link/etc or each player that's assigned by the host. That's not really the issue.

    The issue is the subjective nature of the clues. Some of the clues given in the game I reas through ("Pokemon" shocking, I know) were legitimately hard. Others were hilariously simple. And partway through the game the host made the clues "easier" on purpose, since the village seemed to be floundering.

    So if anyone gets an "easy" clue then it's gg for whoever was killing that night.

    Also, the fact that the Doctor for that village was lynched and he didn't make a single post in protest... terrible. But that's not worth talking about.

    So yeah, I'm all for this kind of thing in theory, but I think that in practice it's not really the greatest system.
  17. K2000

    K2000

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    Clues should be made simpler just because the village are losing, we had a clue mafia that ended after 5 phases since the village was so bad.
  18. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    Actually, almost always you are gonna have to tell someone your alias in anonymous mafia, but you're right in that you're not supposed to in most situations.

    On-topic:

    I wouldn't play it for the exact reason Daenym cited but if you want to hold a clue mafia then read the hosting rules and start making one, I guess? Also what do you mean by 'clue should be made simpler just', did you mean 'shouldn't'?
  19. K2000

    K2000

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    I meant shouldn't, anyway I have asked to make one, just wanted feedback first.
  20. Pidge

    Pidge

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    related fact: The first few mafia games on Smogon, not on the Game Listing thread, years ago, were clue based.

    I think clues could add an interesting element to mafia games. Usually in (Smogon) mafia, you find out who the mafia is through:
    • interpreting results of an ability (inspector, sheriff, tracker, watcher)
    • the village 'leader' analyzing claims (whose abilities are too similar? is a person's role PM forged because of a typo or other missing information?)
    • reading into people's posts/messages

    Inspectors are often village leaders, who receive results from other people like the tracker, watcher, etc. and ultimately decide if their results mean anything in terms of guilt or innocence, since they know for the most part what exactly is going on each night. So basically the first two methods of finding out mafia are usually reserved for one single person. While usually the concept of a village leader works very well in mafia, it kind of detracts from other players contributing in finding and ultimately starting a lynch on a mafia member. People might say it isn't fun or involving for someone to just follow a leader, although again, I'll say it's a quite effective strategy for a play to win mindset.

    The last way I listed to find out if someone is mafia is rarely seen on Smogon, and I like it that way. I've played mafia on other forums/websites, and this kind of centered gameplay is always some bullshit. 'He is mafia obviously because he accuses so and so!' or 'The reason I voted him was just to see his reaction or to see if anyone defends him!'. To me, you can make any kind of statement like that on almost anyone, and get nowhere. I think the reason you don't see this kind of stuff on Smogon is because of the dominance of first two methods. However, it does have its positive value in that it gets more players involved in the game.

    So what do clues have to do with this? It introduces another method to figure out who is a mafia member. It's different than the first two in that the village leader isn't solely responsible/having fun/able in figuring it out, which I think is probably the most 'fun' part of mafia for the villagers, yet it is usually reserved only for the leader. Clues get everyone involved in the game like the third method, but it isn't as 'bullshit' as the third method, where you try to 'scumhunt' on basically nothing.

    With yet another way for a mafia member to be found out, it probably would be best to limit the information gaining roles and/or give the mafia more perks, based on the difficulty of the clues. The clues themselves should be well crafted, varying, but also not totally obvious, and maybe near impossible to figure out without another clue. As a host, I think it would be a challenge itself to make such clues.

    So in summary, I think clues offer a way for every one of the villagers to get involved in the game and have 'fun', while it isn't as dumb as analyzing someone's guilt based on how they are posting. Clues give an advantage to the village, so the host should keep that in mind when designing and creating the game.
  21. K2000

    K2000

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    Well, the mafia have a janitor, who leaves harder clues, the recuiter, who recuits, the mole, appears innocent to village detective, godfather, steel mafian (can't be night killed), unlynchable (can stop the village killing him by lynch once) and a few others, while the village roles are more or less the same.

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