SM UU CM Latias + SD Bisharp Balance (1500s)

Can Blefable?

  • Yes

    Votes: 21 40.4%
  • No

    Votes: 13 25.0%
  • Wat

    Votes: 18 34.6%

  • Total voters
    52

Introduction
Before I begin, obligatory first SM RMT woot woot (and first UU RMT in years for that matter). I pretty much played only OU in XY and then only PU during ORAS, so in SM I wanted to try out the other tiers. Up to this point, I've mostly been looking through forums, picking cores/sets, and trying to build with them (which usually devolves into slapping 3-4 'extra' mons on after carefully considering the synergy of the first 2-3). The idea for this team came when I was using NP Celebi+AV Bisharp on a team when I faced Unaware Clefable, and I kept on thinking to myself "having SD I could've just SD'ed and won" every time it came in to stop Celebi.
Edit 3/9: Celebi was replaced for Latias, so replace every "Celebi" you just read with "Latias." Team is also now Mono Red.


Teambuilding Process
(
)

Started with NP Celebi+SD Bisharp, together they're two boosting threats that can overpower any unaware user stall team could try (including pyukumuku). From there, I knew I'd need a somewhat sturdy Keldeo answer since Bisharp pretty much invites it in, and being offensive Celebi can at best check, so I opted with Tentacruel which has the added benefit of hazard control. From there, I wanted speed which Scarfed Krookodile provides, as well as pursuit trapping. SR Clefable was added as a rocker, as well as blanket check to threats like Hydreigon and Alakazam. At this point, the team lacked any real immediate wallbreaking power, which is why I added Specs Chandelure. That thing hits like a truckload of freight trains and so far I really like it.
EDIT 3/9: Replaced NP Celebi with CM Latias, and changed Specs to Stallbreaker Chandelure.


In-depth analysis

Nyooom (
) @

Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Psyshock | Draco Meteor | Calm Mind | Recover
CM Latias is here to replace Celebi, providing the team with a bunch of resistances at the cost of the effective status immunity. Psyshock is the more consistent STAB that allows it to win CM battles, as well as Blissey. Draco Meteor is there for when more power is necessary, with Devestating Drake there to act as a one-time nuke that has the added benefit of not killing special attack. CM+Recover allows latias to set up and stay healthy throughout the match. Also synergizes well with Bisharp, bringing in Fairys while Bisharp brings in fighting/ground-types. All in all, very satisfied with Latias, the extra speed is extremely helpful and the Z Move is just ridiculous (when I remember to use it).
I Hate Balloons (
) @

Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Knock Off | Iron Head | Sucker Punch | Swords Dance

Poor Bisharp can't be around balloons or else they all pop. SD Bisharp is the second win-condition of the team, and a good one a that. I went with Dread Plate over Life Orb or Lum Berry because I spam Knock Off and the not limited longevity is appreciated, and Adamant over Jolly to increase the power output further. Once again this set runs dual STAB, with Knock Off removing items and Iron Head making short work of Clefable. Sucker Punch allows Bisharp to extend its sweep against faster threats once boosted, with Swords Dance allowing Bisharp to boost its attack. Like I said earlier, Bisharp and Latias cover each other pretty well, and the combination of boosting threats puts a lot of pressure on defensive teams.
Spin Cycle (
) @

Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 104 SpD / 24 Spe
Calm Nature
Scald | Toxic Spikes | Rapid Spin | Haze

Tentacruel is a member that I'm not completely sold on, but at the same time it gives a ton of role compression so I tolerate it. EVs are from XY analyses, giving it the ability to go toe to toe with stuff like Chandelure, Volcanion (who you have to rapid spin to death), and the like. Moves could likely be tweaked, but Scald is here to burn everything, and Toxic Spikes allows me to put more pressure on defensive teams (along with Bisharp deterring Defog). Rapid Spin removes hazards, and Haze allows me to stop bulky setup sweepers like CM Clefable. However, CM Clefable is taken care of relatively easily by other members of the team, I just can't really think of much to put in that place.
Sly Krooker (
) @

Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Knock Off | Earthquake | Pursuit | Superpower or Stone Edge

Like Sly Cooper but a crocodile. Initially I thought Krookodile would be redundant with Bisharp, but the two work have worked pretty well in tandem. Intimidate was chosen over Moxie because I use it as mostly a hit and run attacker, so it rarely has the ability to capitalize on the boosts (it also helps in getting M-Aero to switch out allowing for a timely pursuit). Once again, EVs allow Krookodile to go fast and hit hard. Knock Off is the move to spam primarily, with Earthquake there as a more consitent STAB option. Pursuit helps weaken/outright eliminate more troublesome attackers like Gengar or M-Aero. Superpower was chosen in the last slot to hit Hydreigon, but Stone Edge is something I've been contemplating.
Can Blefable (
) @

Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
Moonblast | Thunder Wave or Flamethrower | Soft-Boiled | Stealth Rock

I couldn't build a team in ORAS OU without Clefable, and the same thing holds here (seriously how can you say no to this much versatility and role compression). Similar to Tentacruel, Clefable acts as another general check, this time to fighting-type pokemon like Mienshao/Conkeldurr and also dragons like Hydreigon. The EVs are standard, allowing for a better chance against Sash Alakazam, while retaining as much physical bulk as possible. Moonblast is STAB, with Thunder Wave to paralyze common Clefable switchins like Bisharp, Gengar, and the like. Alternatively, Flamethrower can hit stuff like Bisharp, Scizor, and Cobalion looking to switch in, and can be used more safely with Toxic Spikes. Soft-Boiled keeps Clefable healthy, and Rocks are here because I need them.
BURNINATE (
) @

Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Def / 36 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
Hex | Will-O-Wisp | Substitute | Taunt

While it does not hit as hard as specs, this Chandelure set is capable of dismantling stall teams with the support from Toxic Spikes+Bisharp to deter defog. The EVs outspeed Bisharp and Scizor, allowing for a timely burn, while the Special attack investment gives it a better chance to KO some stall threats (like Suicune and Clefable). Hex takes advantage of all the status spam on the team, with Will-O-Wisp here to burn steel-types like Scizor, as well as common switch-ins like Mandibuzz. Substitute shields it from status, and Taunt prevents recovery moves, further pressuring teams' defensive backbones. If you prefer to just break through stall teams with sheer power, Specs is still usable in this slot, but the matchup definitely becomes a bit harder (and it kind of becomes overkill). Shiny because MONO-RED.

Threatlist
/
- I can 'offensively check' them which means guessing what moves they're going for and hope I'm right, or just revenge kill.
- Bisharp is difficult to switch into because Krookodile triggers Defiant, but its not gamebreaking auto-lose. Paralyzing/Burning makes it immensely easier to handle, and worst case Krookodile can live a boosted attack if healthy.
- Give this thing a free turn or two and it'll shred this team. Currently I have very few ways to handle it, save for play really aggressively with everything but Krookodile.


- This thing outspeeds the majority of the team, and Krookodile is my best way to handle it (can't switch in well). Dumping more defense in Clefable would make this easier to handle, but thunder wave has been sufficient so far.


Replays
VS Balance - Latias just wins
VS Balance - Chandelure + Hazards pressure
VS Offense - Hazards pressure
VS Offense - Original Version


Potential Changes
- None yet, but Shadow Ball Blissey is obnoxious.

Conclusion
So far, UU has been a lot of fun to play, and I'm excited for what this new gen has in store. The variety of threats definitely took some getting used to, but once I got past that I realized just how nice having this many options was. Speaking of lots of viable options, I don't know how Clefable dropped but please don't ban it I need it to build teams (and OU please don't take it back you have too many fairies as is).

Thanks for reading, here's the importable, and have a nice day!
 
Last edited:

sparrow

kacaw
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Hey Mate, cool team you have here. Looking at the overall structure I can see that you enjoy a more bulky offence style of team with powerful wall breakers (Chandelure, Bisharp & Celebi) alongside decent checks to offence (scarf Krookodile, Tentacruel & Clefable). Other threats to your team that I have noticed are Volcanion (see: Earth Power & Sludge Wave), Sub CM Raikou, opposing Bisharp, opposing Specs Chandelure and a slight weakness to Starmie! Hopefully I can offer some changes which will improve your team overall and help deal with your current threat list.
>

>

--> Taunt/Stall Breaker Variant
>
Latias @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Roost
Latias is a great offensive check to the first two threats that you have outlined. Benefits of using Latias over Celebi are higher Speed & Special Attack, and arguably better coverage & resistances. z-Draco Meteor nukes opposing teams at +1 and also affords a nice little benefit in not dropping Lati's SpA -2. Latias doesn't let in opposing Steel Type Pokemon for free (ie. Bisharp & Scizor) something that you may have noticed whilst using Celebi. It can also set up alongside other CM Pokemon and beat them 1v1 with Psyshock. This variant of Latias can switch into Volcanion and recover off any significant damage, CM Lati also beats Sub CM Raikou 1v1.
+1 252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 255-300 (90.7 - 106.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latias Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Bisharp: 189-222 (69.7 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
>
Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast / Flash Cannon
- U-turn
Hydreigon, in my opinion, is quite the forgotten threat in the current metagame. In regard to your team it affords similar resistances to Krookodile, but also offers better coverage, and U-Turn. Hydreigon isn't threatend by stray burns and offers a solid switch in to threats such as Chandelure, Volcanion, Starmie (ie. Hydro Pump), and non-Ice Fang M-Sharpedo (most are running Psychic Fangs but be careful!). Early game Hydreigon is no slouch either, acting as an effective Fairy lure; U-Turn provides an opportunity for a free switch into Bisharp or even Chandelure. Hydreigon covers threats that Krookodile misses out on whilst still covering the Pokemon that you initially used Krookodile to threaten. For example Hydreigon out speeds +1 Haxorus, as well as KOing Zygarde-10% outright.
--> Taunt/Stall Breaker Variant
Chandelure @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Def / 36 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Hex
Currently your team is very strong against opposing variants of offence, with the included changes of Latias alongside Scarf Hydreigon, and a solid defensive backbone of Clefable & Tentacruel, you have little to worry about. My main concern for the team now is Stall - this is where stall breaker Chandelure comes in. Firstly, Flame Body + Bulky Chandelure is effective against U-Turn spam. Next up, stall literally has nothing to touch this Chandelure with, and once behind a Substitute (with Toxic Spikes up) Chandelure has very little switchins on many standard metagame teams. Pokemon such as Blissey & Porygon2 are ineffective once Taunted; and Will-o-Wisp is there for opposing Scizor & Bisharp (which this Chandelure outspeeds). Note: with the addition of Latias & Hydreigon, fire spam isn't as terrifying for this team to face which affords the use of Flame Body on Chandelure.
36 SpA Chandelure Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 192+ SpD Clefable: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage
36 SpA Chandelure Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Chandelure: 54-63 (16.7 - 19.5%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
36 SpA Chandelure Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 133-157 (35.5 - 41.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage
36 SpA Chandelure Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 280-331 (71 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and poison damage
36 SpA Chandelure Hex (130 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 217-256 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and poison damage
36 SpA Chandelure Hex (130 BP) vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 214-253 (49.6 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Black Sludge recovery, and burn damage
36 SpA Chandelure Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 169-201 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Black Sludge recovery, and burn damage
36 SpA Chandelure Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 177-208 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and poison damage
Lesser Changes:
(Flamethrower) -->
(Thunder Wave)
Status spam isn't a bad thing, having Thunder Wave over Flamethrower offers some nice speed control for the team. Changing to bulky Chandelure makes Scizor less of a threat and paralysing a threat such as M-Aero, Keldeo and even Gengar on the switch is very nice.

Latias (F) @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Roost

Bisharp @ Dread Plate
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 104 SpD / 24 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Haze

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock

Chandelure @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Def / 36 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Hex
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the suggestions, I've been trying it out over the past few days and have really liked most of the changes. For starters Latias has been amazing and patches up a lot of holes that were very gaping (I always forget to click the Z-Move though). Thunder Wave on Clefable has also been immensely helpful, since it has a lot of similar checks/counters to Latias and paralyzing puts them out of commision. I'm not exactly feeling Hydreigon because it feels like a hybrid of Latias&Bisharp, which is nice at times but I just found Krookodile more consistent for what I needed (also opens up a nasty Togekiss weakness).

The Chandelure set is interesting because I tried out the exact same one but with Gengar at one point (was much less bulky). For the team, chandelure has played a similar role but in a different way (if that makes any sense?), WoW + Taunt has been nice to surprise burn stuff like Tentacruel and Bisharp (Sucker Punch mindgames are fun), but the raw power of specs has been missed at times (not to mention Shadow Ball drops Sp Def always). I tried both sets with the updated team and found the staying power to me helpful in more battles, so I'll update that set in the OP when I can get around to it.

EDIT: A question I had (and will add to OP) is making Chandelure the scarfer, and replacing Krookodile with Gliscor (EQ, Roost, Toxic, Taunt or something). This way, I get another ground immunity+a bisharp counter, and I can use Memento on chandelure to get more setup opportunities. Of course this comes at the cost of being a bit weaker to stall, and the team is fine against offense as it is.
 
Last edited:

sparrow

kacaw
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Hey mate, I'm glad that you liked the suggestions! Swords Dance Gliscor has a very nice match up against current stall builds, but running it could make you weaker to versions of Stall that run their own Gliscors. The set in question being:
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 208 SpD / 56 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Roost
- Swords Dance
In this case we now have to consider a viable Scarfer or alternative to Chandelure. My main concern being Chandelure's base 80 Speed stat and it's lack of presence against HO teams in general.

In this case I am leaning on an interesting choice of M-Aerodactyl over Chandelure. Sure, Gliscor & M-Aero share similar weakness' but they serve completely different purposes and share offensive synergy together. That being Gliscor handling Stall builds and M-Aero adding some nice speed to the team. Of course this does change the team dynamic completely and you will have noticed a larger weakness to Scizor. Which can tank Stone Edge from M-Aero, and Revenge KO.

In this case, a minor change I would now suggest is Fire Blast / Flamethrower over Thunder Wave on Clefable. Also, making Tentacruel more Defensively inclined is nice for tanking Scizor's attacks.

Mega-Aerodactyl is blistering fast and offers a fairly versatile spread. For your team you would now need another answer to Gliscor other than Latias, and the team now misses pursuit trap for Pokemon such as Gengar. So the spread I am suggesting is as follows:
Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Wing Attack / Roost
- Aqua Tail / Ice Fang
- Pursuit
I've slashed Roost and Ice Fang, because this comes down to personal preference. In the case of Roost, you already have Clefable, Latias & Gliscor, meaning you can afford to forego Wing Attack (at the cost of covering some offensive threats such as: Keldeo, Infernape, etc.); and in terms of Ice Fang, it allows you to OHKO Gliscor if you feel it is a massive problem to your team. Aqua Tail is initially there because it offers you better damage on other Ground Type Pokemon such as Nidos & Hippowdon.

In summary, this is the list of changes (I feel would be appropriate) - should you decide to run Gliscor over Krookodile:
>

>

(Thunder Wave) -->
(Flamethrower / Fire Blast)
(Current Set) -->
(Physically Defensive)
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
 
Not completely 'unintentional' necro-bump (school got busy for a while there), but I've been trying out the Gliscor>Krookodile sets and for the most part found the team to function worse. Which is probably mostly on me because I don't really play well with M-Aero, despite it being S rank, so I'm keeping the team as it was. Updated the OP, thanks for your suggestions sparrow they've been immensely helpful!
 

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