1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Collide

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Lohgock, May 9, 2013.

  1. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    369
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Thanks to Despo for the Banner.


    Hello,

    I decided to make a RMT of a team I've been playing with for months and I guess it's the right time to retire it now after I lost the OU match in the pound-for-pound tournament against Masterclass who made a good prediction I wasn't able to recover from. The team itself is probably one the best I've ever made and I'm proud of it and the idea behind it.

    Speaking of which, a little bit of history: Once upon a time I took a nap on our couch and thought of the mighty Item "Rocky Helmet". In conjunction with Rough Skin it is able to deal a lot of damage to physical attackers while my own Pokemon doesn't even need to do something. Next thing I thought was, if I'm able to punish physical attackers for, well, attacking physicaly, a Pokemon using Calm Mind could really benefit from that.
    So the first Pokemon in the team were Garchomp and Ferrothorn, both having Rocky Helmet, and a Latias as my CM sweeper.
    I constructed the team in my mind and whatever I did, the team just didn't became solid enough. So I replaced Ferrothorn with a Skarmory and suddenly, the team began to evolve.
    After finishing the team I gave it to a few people who all really liked it. I also asked BKC what he thinks about the team and he told me to replace Latias with Starmie. It worked ok, but I don't really need a spinner and the lack of my cleaner hurt a lot, so I stuck with Latias. Sorry man =P


    At a Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    ~We are healing
    But it's killing us inside
    Can we take a chance?
    When faith and fear collide ~



    In Detail

    [​IMG]@ Rocky Helmet [​IMG]
    "Live free or let me die"
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind


    Part one of my Rocky Helmet duo. It's here to provide my team with Spikes support helping Latias to clean properly endgame aswell as weakening the likes of Scizor while they U-Turn out.
    Especially the latter is extremly essential for the final Latias/Virizion clean because Scizor checks them both pretty nicely. It also breaks VoltTurn-chains. Allthough they're not as popular as they were in BW1, they are still annoying to deal with but between Spikes and Rocky Helmet Scizor won't last long.
    Even though you don't see Skarmory much these days and if you see it, it is a Custap lead, it performs pretty well checking a lot of stuff in todays metagame while Sturdy acts as an emergency check to the likes of Volcarona who pose a big threat to my team.


    ~You can't take away my strength
    Fix these broken veins
    There's nothing left to fight
    Live free or let me die~



    [​IMG]@ Rocky Helmet [​IMG]
    "Monster"
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 218 HP / 196 Def / 96 Speed
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail / Dragon Claw
    - Fire Blast

    Garchomp is just a great Pokemon and does so many things for my team even though it normally dies first. It sets up the essential Stealth Rocks reliably since most people think Tyranitar is my SR setter and completes the Rocky Helmet core together with Skarmory. I just love how Scarf Rachi gets a ton of damage by U-Turning out while it does about nothing to Chomp. I sometimes even switch Chomp into CB Crunch from Tyranitar just to get the damage I need to clean with Latias endgame. It's pretty sad, but Garchomp does not attack often, however, that's fine since it doesn't need to. Usually it comes in, sets up Rocks, switches out and then switches in like 1-2 times later into a U-Turn or something. Still, if it attacks, it's nothing to mess around with. Earthquake, even univested, does a ton and Dragon Tail is cool for shuffling. Fire Blast is there to suprise hit the likes of Skarmory and Forretress to, guess what, clean the path for Latias.
    The EVs are taken from on-site allowing Chomp to maintain a lot of bulk while the nature it there to still outspeed some stuff I don't remember.

    ~ I feel it deep within,
    It's just beneath the skin
    I must confess that I
    Feel like a monster ~



    [​IMG]Leftovers [​IMG]
    "Hero"
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 220 HP / 76 SAtk / 212 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast


    Ah, Virizion, an underrated force in todays metagame. Viri was the last mon added. I needed a secondary check to Thundurus-T, Tyranitar, Ferrothorn and Landorus-I and a back-up plan to win in case Latias fails due to whatever. My team also didn't enjoy facing Politoed because it could just poison my two water-resists. Well, not like Viri doesn't get poisoned but it doesn't care because it won't stay in long anyway.
    The EVs are to outspeed everything up to 102 Basespeed. A few Sp.Atk. EVs so it won't do shit and the rest into HP for.. bulk.
    Virizion doesn't normally sweep but still poses a threat to a lot of teams that aren't prepared for it. It's also a pretty cool lure for Jirachi and Celebi, so I just need to double switch to either Skarmory or Garchomp, depending on their sets, to set up some Spikes or Rocks or shuffle or whatever.


    ~ I need a hero to save my life
    A hero'll save me
    Just in time ~



    [​IMG](M) @ Leftovers [​IMG]
    "My Obsession"
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Will-O-Wisp


    Jellicent provides me with it's ability to stop any Spinner not called SubToxic Tentacruel or LO Starmie, which are taken care of by my other mons. It also has a ton of useful resistances allowing it to stop last mon SD Scizor and walling Keldeo to hell and back. Since Keldeo + Pursuiter is such a common strategy it's a godsend to have two Keldeo-counters.
    Despite having two other water-resists, Jellicent is my to-go guy for any choiced Politoed, as Ice Beam hurts Virizion and Latias a lot, as well as being the closest thing to actually counter Skarmory and Forretress. Many teams do fail to counter Jellicent properly and more often than not a physical attacker on the enemy team gets burned through WoW or Scald which is excellent for my two Calm Minders.


    ~ You’re my only infatuation
    Don’t leave me stranded
    In my obsession
    My purpose, my possession
    Live and die in my obsession ~




    [​IMG](M) @ Choice Scarf[​IMG]
    "Imperfection"
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower

    When it comes to choosing a Tyranitar-set most people tend to use either SDef-Tar with Stealth Rocks or CB Tar to clean the path for their Keldeo or Landorus-I, respectivly. So, despite being the standard-set once, not many people expect a Choice Scarf on Tyranitar what more often than not leads to suprise KOs.
    Nowadays, nearly every Celebi has Baton Pass to escape Tyranitars Pursuit but thanks to Choice Scarf Celebi loses ~70% through Crunch thinking it's able to escape without any damage taken. Scarf is also incredibly useful to attack Tentacruel before it does to avoid a possible Scald burn.
    ScarfTar still does the same things CB Tar does: Pursuiting Gengar, the Latis, Starmie and lots of other stuff. It found his way into my team for two main reasons. Together with Skarmory Tyranitar is my weapon against dragons. While Skarmory takes Outrages for days, Tyranitar takes care of special dragons that would own me otherwise. I also need it to better combat opposing weather teams. While I don't rely on Sandstorm in any way, Rain and Sun-Teams need their weather to be active to actually be effective thus Tyranitar is more like a going-on-weather-teams-nerves-mon rather than providing my team with useful weather on it's own.

    ~ You fall to your knees
    You beg, you plead
    Can I be someone else
    For all the times I hate myself?
    Your failures devour your heart
    In every hour, you're drowning
    In your imperfection ~



    [​IMG](F) @ Leftovers [​IMG]
    "Savior"
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 224 HP / 44 Def / 240 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roost


    The star of the show. The Pokemon it all comes down in the end. Latias is so damn effective at what it does. It has insame bulk that becomes sky-high after a few Calm Mind-boosts. While its physical bulk is decent at best, that shouldn't be any problem when Latias' teammates did their work. Normaly Latias only comes in when every counter in the opponents team is either dead or weakend to a point where Latias has no problem dealing with it. Setting up is no problem thanks to Substitute. You don't need to worry about a Rotom-Ws Thunder Wave, a Jellicents Toxic or a tricked Choice item because Substitute blocks them all. You can also show your middlefinger to Scizor by subbing away while they U-Turn. With a little luck Latias is able to beat Ferrothorn aswell by stalling out its Gyro Ball PPs (if it doesn't have Gyro Ball it's set-up fodder anyway).
    Beside being my late-game cleaner I need Latias to counter sun-teams as well as rain-teams which it does just nicely due to it's typing. All in all Latias is one of my favorite Pokemon to use. It combines power, speed and bulk while walling the biggest threats this Metagame has to offer.

    ~ What you got
    What you want
    What you need
    Gonna be your savior ~




    Conclusion

    I hope you like my RMT and the team. It combines offensive pressure and bulk and still has some suprise value, which is always nice to have. It's fun to play with but requires a lot of thinking before and during a match. The goal is not to keep every teammeber as healthy as possible but sacrificing one at the right moment to weaken an enemy Pokemon to a point where one of the two Calm Minders can easily sweep.

    Some words about a few people I want to thank (in no specific order):
    BKC: The man who thaught me how to play OU. After our tutoring I became better and better in building teams and playing in genereal. You are, beside that, a fucking cool guy with an epic taste in music.

    Furai: I know you for about two months or so but I began to love you the day we talked to each other first haha. Thanks for being awesome and kind as fuck (also for giving me Ubers-teams hehe)

    DittoCrow: Probably the nicest guy I got to know on Smogon so far. You did an amazing job reaching the top with the Wolfpack, I never had a doubt you could make it. Also, thanks for letting me be part of the team :)

    Gr8astard: Same as DittoCrow. You're a chill guy and awesome battler and I really enjoyed building teams with you.

    Also shoutout to the whole Wolfpack, you're all amazing guys. It's a shame I didn't talk to a lot of you guys. Obviously my buddys Dark Psiana, mbh, BrickBreak, Fakes and Living things deserve to be mentioned aswell. You all know I love you =*​
    Steve Angello likes this.
  2. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    369
    Importable (open)
    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower


    Skarmory (M) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind


    Garchomp (F) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SDef
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail
    - Fire Blast


    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 224 HP / 44 Def / 240 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roost


    Virizion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 220 HP / 76 SAtk / 212 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast


    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Scald
    - Will-O-Wisp



    Threats

    [​IMG]

    This is by far the biggest threat to my team. If
    it manages to get a QD-boost it's probably gg. When I see Volca in team preview I need to make sure at least Stealth Rocks are on the field. If I manage to get up Rocks and 1-2 layer of Spikes it's no problem if I'm not dumb and let it set-up with like Superpower-locked Tyranitar. If it lacks roost and Giga Drain Jellicent can beat it after Stealth Rocks. If I manage to keep Rocks off my field Skarmory can WW/Brave Bird once thanks to Sturdy. Garchomp can tank a hit if at full health and Tyranitar can if Volca is a bulky version.


    [​IMG]
    No problem if it's Scarf. No problem if it's specially defensive but Calm Mind version can spell doom for my team if 'Rachi has Flash Cannon. Especially Wish-versions. Garchomp is a nice check but can't take repeatet Flash Cannons or Psychics. Tyranitar counters those with Substitute but doesn't do enough damage againt the bulky Wisher. Still, only a problem if it has the rare combination of Wish and Flash Cannon.


    [​IMG]
    Oh fuck off 'Kazam. It won't ever sweep my team but it always takes one of my teammembers with it unless I get lucky with Latias (fu sdef drops). Due to Tyranitar having no sdef-investment and Jellicent having close to none they can't take Focus Blasts / Shadow Balls. Not a real problem but annoying to face.
  3. superstar

    superstar

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Hey Lohgock, not really a rate but felt I had to comment here just to say how awesome this team is. (That artwork is ballin') Very refreshing to see a well-built team that isn't the same ol' Keldeo/Celebi/Ttar

    The main problem I'm seeing is that you are a tad weak to DragMag. Since Skarmory is your only Steel, Dragon attacks can probably break through the team once Magnezone takes out Skarm. Dragon Dancers can't really set up anywhere though, so it's not too much of an issue (Scarf Mence is the only real danger I see). Luvdisc'd
  4. gr8astard

    gr8astard The Based Lord? My balls!!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Past SPL + WCoP Winnerwon the 9th Official Smogon Tournament
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    305
    Hi Lohgock, this is a really cool team, too bad I never get to see it before you decided to retire the team. But anyway, I really like the idea of having rocky helmet users to weaken the checks to Latias and Virizion--I've seen people use Rocky Helmet Garchomp and Rocky Helmet Skarmory, but not both on the same team--definitely a nice and creative way to bring one of the two CMers closer to a sweep. In fact whenever I try to use CM Virizion, I always find Jirachi to be the #1 nuisance as it is really hard to get rid off unlike Virizion's other checks which loses to Tyranitar, so this approach is something I'll have to try.
    However, I do see some pokemon that can be problematic to your team, namely setup Terrakion, sub Kyurem-B, Volcarona, and Reuniclus. Sadly, I only have one solution for the easier problem to fix: the Kyurem-B weakness. Even though Latias, Scarf Tyranitar, and Virizion outspeeds it, Kyurem-B can easily grab a substitute vs Jellicent, Skarmory (you can always whirlwind it but Ice Beam/Fusion Bolt will hurt), and Garchomp, since you don't outspeed it. Once behind a sub, every member of your team risk getting OHKO'ed or 2HKO'ed. To alleviate this issue, I recommend using Dragon Claw over Dragon Tail on Garchomp as you already have Skarmory for phazing. This also allows you to immediately threaten pokemon like Dragonite, which you cannot afford to set up because of how slow your scarfer is. In addition, I recommend pumping up its speed to at least 290--this allows you to outspeed neutral natured Kyurem-B, and by extension Adamant Lucario, Adamant Toxicroak, Timid Heatran, etc. Although you have other checks for these Pokemon, I am more inclined to believe that the extra speed is more handy than the bulk. In fact, I would consider investing as much as 144 speed with Jolly nature to hit 303 and outspeed standard ebelt Jirachi, which can also be very annoying to this team.
    As for Reuniclus, Volcarona, and Terrakion, I am not sure if there is anything that can be done to fix it without opening another hole to the team. Terrakion can set up on Latias in the sand or Tyranitar locked in a wrong move, Volcarona can grab a Quiver Dance vs Latias, Jellicent and Virizion, while both variants of Reuniclus are still incredibly threatening as scarf Tyranitar fails to OHKO. The closest I can come to a solution is probably a CB Scizor over Virizion, as it provides you with a secondary check to Terrakion and Reuniclus, and the Quick Attack variant can even finish off Volcarona just after SR (252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Quick Attack vs 0 HP/0 Def Volcarona: 49.2% - 58.2%), and bulkier variants should falter after SR, a layer of spikes, and QA + Sand.
    I don't think replacing Virizion with Scizor will especially hurt your matchup vs rain--in fact what I like about this team is Garchomp and Latias helps you immensely vs sun while Jellicent and Latias helps you vs rain. However, you do lose that secondary Landorus check and Rotom-W will be more annoying as your only switchin to it is practically Latias. I guess it is all about tradeoffs with this kind of team, but still great job on the team and thanks for sharing it, I will post more if I can find a better solution :)

    PS: I feel like you still need max speed on Virizion if you decide to keep it; tying with Terrakion and Keldeo can be really important at times.
  5. Rosez66

    Rosez66

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    If it manages to come in for free then weavile of all pokemon could pontentially take down four if not five of your pokemon and it just highlights the strain of skarmory. I would defiantly consider another physical wall in Landrous T ( the intimidate one?) an iy would serve almost the same purpose as chomp but with a tiny bit more longevity. Also being immune to spikes helps.
  6. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,700
    Hey, cool team :) You've already got some pretty good rates, but I just wanted to point out your Garchomp has 60 EVs in Special Defense instead of Speed, which is where you meant to put them.
  7. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    369
    Update with Threatlist.

    Thanks a lot man :) The artwork's made by a friend of mine, I'll tell him about the feedback =D

    Yeah, DragMag is a problem indeed. It requires smart play to beat it. Normally DragMag-users try to double switch their Magnezone in which is pretty easy to predict. Also, since the usual DragMag-team is something like 3/4 Dragons + Mag + Scizor/Mamoswine, Jellicent does a nice job walling 1/2 to 1/3 of their team so they more often than not have to switch Magnezone into Jellicent (they won't switch in Latios fearing Tyranitar) so after 2-3 Scalds it will eventually die. Still, it is a major problem and one wrong move can cause a sweep by one of their dragons. Thanks for your feedback :)


    @Gr8 (won't quote you since it's too long): First of all, thanks for your feedback and that amazing rate :)
    You're absolutly right about the Volca-weakness while I don't agree about Terrakion. Terrakion doesn't much room to set-up. Actually only against locked Tyranitar. Said Tyranitar can always revenge non speed-boostes Terrakions. Garchomp and Skarmory can take a +2 non-LO Close Combat and finish it off (and with LO it'll take tons of damage attacking one of them) while neither Latias nor Jellicent fall to a +2 Stone Edge. So just to KO one of them it needs to hit Stone Edge twice and take two Dragon Pulses in Latias' case or gets burned in Jellicents case. The only real problem is double cancer set with LO. But to really sweep me it needs at least one SD and one RP, hit Stone Edge 4 times in a row, take damage from Rocky Helmet twice and from Rough Skin once.
    Kyu-B is a problem, I agree, like it is to any team lacking Ferrothorn, Rachi or Scizor. It is, however, only able to do a lot of damage to one of my Pokemon before getting worn down. Skarmory can always WW it out while Tar/Viri/Latias outspeed and KO. You also have to take into consideration that between Rocks and Sand it won't last long.
    About Reuniclus.. yeah, you're right it's a big problem. Thanksfully it's not that common so I guess it's ok, but I need to play carefully when facing it.
    Dragon Claw sounds like a cool idea on Garchomp. I remember some situations I would have been happy having it over Dragon Tail. I'll test that out aswell as a more speedy Garchomp. Virizion doesn't normally need the Speed but since it's a pretty minor change I'll test it aswell.
    Scizor.. hmm, it'd patch up a few weaknesses but I'd lose my second Lando-I check forcing Latias to enter the field sooners thus risking to lose my then only winning condition early through some Tyranitar or Scizor. I might test it but I don't think it will work to be honest.
    Thanks a lot man =]


    Thanks for your rate :)
    Allthough your right that Weaville can take down 5/6 members you have to take into consideration that a) you don't see much Weaville at all and basicly none of them has SD because it's job is to trap stuff, b) between Rocks + Sandstorm + Rocky Helmet + LO it won't last long, c) Skarmory walls it to hell and back, d) I can still double switch from Tyranitar to Garchomp on the Low Kick so it takes 44% damage and e) It can't set-up anywhere.
    Lando-T would be a cool replacement for Garchomp but I'd lack my main way to wear down the likes of Jirachi which is the strategy of the team aswell as a suprise Fire Blast to roast Steel-types (again to help Latias). It also doesn't counter Weaville lol.

    Thanks man :)
    Oh lol, I read "SpD" instead of "Spd" in the Smogon-analysis haha. Thanks for pointing that out ^.^


    Thanks for all the feedback and luvdiscs guys, keep the rates coming :)
  8. Dakar

    Dakar

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    94
    Hey man, it looks like a good team, and I definitely like the unique Rocky Helmet/Rough Skin combo. One thing to note: Is there some way that you can set Garchomp up without the Sp. Atk lowering nature? I think that it would be extremely helpful against Skarmory and Ferro and Scizor. I can't immediately think of anything that you'd rather drop, but that extra 10% could definitely be helpful.
  9. Fakes

    Fakes
    is a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    190
    lol eiskalt kein shoutout für mich lololool
    cooles team kyu-b zerfickt dein team iwie jira oder sowas rein

    klatsch mal ferro über skarm oder jira über jelli iwie so
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,373
    Pretty lovely team you got there, so congrats!

    I agree with the suggestion of gr8astard to use more Speed on Garchomp, and i would actually suggest to use 318 Speed, enough to outrun +Speed Kyu-B. I also agree with replacing Dragon Tail for Dragon Claw, which can save you against threatening Pokemon such as Dragonite and Kyu-B. Finally, if you decide that you like the speedy Garchomp version and D-Claw, you can even end up using max Atk / max Spe to OHKO Kyu-B and Dnite after SR with D-Claw. Oh and also Naive > Jolly to make Fire Blast stronger. It's not as if Chomp is supposed to take any special attacks anyway, aside from the rare Flash Cannon from CM Jirachi.

    Seeing as you lack a spinner and Spikes have the potential to annoy your team you could try out two things. The first is to use Taunt over Brave Bird on Skarmory. The second is to change your Tyranitar set into a mixed one. Crunch and Pursuit are both givens on this set, and so is Stone Edge to help deal with Volcarona. On the last slot Fire Blast deals with any Spikes user. If you want to prevent dangerous Pokemon from setting up (especially Terrakion) while still having a way to prevent Volcarona from setting up, you can take out Stone Edge and use Roar instead, which also helps vs SubCM Jirachi. The items of choice can be either Expert Belt to power up your attacks or Chopple Berry, to take one Focus Blast from Gengar and OHKO back. Here is the set:

    move 1: Crunch
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Stone Edge / Roar
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Expert Belt / Chople Berry
    nature: Lonely / Hasty
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    You can use a Hasty nature to outspeed Breloom and defensive Celebi before it escapes with Baton Pass, or a Lonely nature to have the best damage output.

    Good luck and i hope i helped :D
  11. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    369
    Ok, I tested all your suggestions (beside MixTar, haven't had enough time for that but I will catch it up) and these were the results:

    More speed on Garchomp
    It was definitely helpful pumping up its speed, however, the more I invest in speed, the leass is Chomp able to weaken the likes of Jirachi, Tyranitar etc. since I sometimes even switch it into a CB Tyranitars Crunch or Scizors U-Turn just to get that extra damage Latias needs to effectly clean.
    I decided that pumping up it's speed to 290 is enough. It doesn't lose much bulk but outspeeding threats that Gr8 mentioned is extremly helpful.

    Dragon Claw > Dragon Tail on Garchomp
    I'm not really sure about this. Both are somehow situational. In some situations it was pretty cool not to have the -1 priority and just straight out attack, in others I wished I had Dragon Tail. I guess in the end it's optional and a matter of preference.

    Scizor > Virizion
    Sorry, but just no. It made me vulnureable to those standard Landorus + Ttar Teams and forced Latias out often losing my only winning condition midgame. While it's nice to have a check against Reuniclus and a Revenger against Volcarona it just doesn't make up for the loss of Virizion.

    Max Speed on Virizion
    I didn't notice a difference tbh. It's bulk is about the same so these few EVs less don't really make difference but at the same time I never had to win a speedtie with Keldeo or Terrakion. It probably comes in handy once in hundred games and I'd be happy to have max speed Virizion in this specific battle but in the other 99 battles it doesn't do anything.


    Thanks for your rate :)
    While your right, it's really not much of a deal. Fireblast is the least used move on Garchomp and does enough to Ferrothorn and Forretress so that Latias doesn't have a problem finishing them lategame. Also, the thing is, I can't drop any other stat. The most obvious would be Sp.Def., but it's really needed against sun-teams.

    I will try out your suggestions soon, Alexwolf, thanks for your rate :)


    Also I forgot a shoutout to Fiction. who thaught me Ubers and is a cool guy in generall. Sorry man
  12. XcRunner

    XcRunner

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    149
    Hey, great team you have here.
    I've always been a huge fan of sand, and the synergy is great. Virizion and Latias are some of my favorite pokes to use, and you did a great job.
    Also just wanted to say Skillet is awesome!
    I'm liking the song lyrics mixed in
  13. TransparentOpacity

    TransparentOpacity

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2009
    Messages:
    139
    I think you should max out speed on latias. You don't want to be slower than other latias, latios, and gengar. What are the 44 defense evs even doing?
  14. feral_brute

    feral_brute

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    61
    I love the thought process behind it and the overall presentation of this team! Looks really fun and just might try it out or at least adopt a few of the members to my future theorymon'ing.

    Also, totally logged in and posted for the first time in years completely to luvdisc this thread and to say that I love the Skillet lyrics and nicknames!
  15. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    369
    So, I've been busy with school recently but finally finished testing all suggestions.

    SDef Tyranitar
    Well, I'm not to sure about it. While it's defenitly great to counter Reuniclus (I only tested Chople because of my weak to Zam and Reun) and having some suprise value against Scizor Latias really benefits from there are some downfalls of not having Scarf Tyranitar. The first not being able to handle certain weather threats like Sludge Bomb Venausur or other threats like SDef Celebi (it Baton Passes out before I'm able to do damage). While the above mentioned suprise value against Scizor is nice it's not like Scizor is a threat to my teams as it's easily removed by my Rocky Helmet users and, moreover, I can even benefit from a living Scizor (set-up fodder for Skarm 'n stuff). Also keep in mind that I don't have any priority, so I'd give up my only real option to revenge kill.
    In the end, both do have their advantages and disavantages, both work kinda nice but I have a slightly edge to Scarf Tyranitar.

    Thanks a lot you two :) Cool to see some Skillet-fans here, they're the most awesome band ever!

    Thanks for your rate :)
    The Defense EVs don't do anything specific, they're like leftovers because I nearly maxed HP and run enough speed to outspeed Base 108ers, so I just put the rest into Def just to take some hits better physically.
    While it's nice to outspeed those threats, keep in mind that they're all able to OHKO Latias. Since it's my main winning option I won't ever risk a speed tie with them (unless it's like last mon but even then it's 50:50 and I'm not even sure if I'm able to OHKO Latios). Furthermore, Tyranitar is there to kill them, so when Latias comes out they should already be removed, so I don't see any advantage in maximizing Latias' speed.
  16. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    784
    The team is very cool and I played out quite a bit on the ladder to test out how it works (hope you don't mind too much). Besides the already mentioned Alakazam weakness, I noticed that taking down an opposing SpD Skarmory is a HUGE pain. Garchomp Fire Blast cannot 2HKO without Rocks, and since Garchomp is your Rocks setter too, it's not that unlikely (also, Fire Blast has low PP and "bad" accuracy so it can be stalled out if the opponent realizes you're carrying it in time). Other than that, Skarmory completely walls your team bar Jellicent (which cannot Taunt before a layer of Spikes or whatever, and if they're carrying a random check to Water attacks, it won't be a problem anyway).

    I don't have a clear suggestion to solve this problem. Your team is already great, making difficult to play aroud with pokemon and sets, so it's a pain to try and introduce something to deal with Skarmory in an efficient way. I guess alexwolf's Tyranitar can help somewhat, raising the chances of said Skarmory switching into an unexpected Fire Blast; I'm not sure it will work that well, but it's still worth a try.

    Sorry for the not-really-constructive rate, but I thouglt letting a feedback could be helpful regardless. Good luck with your team, I really enjoyed reading the RMT and testing it!
  17. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    369
    Thanks for your rate :)
    Sure I don't mind if you use the team, that's why I posted the import =D

    You're right that Skarmory, especially the SDef-Version, is extremly annoying. Thankfully Jellicent stops it cold, but since it stops the other 5 members it's hard to take down. At least it's a rare sight so I don't mind too much, but I guess it's another reason to play mixed Tyranitar.
  18. will-t9

    will-t9

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    Just a quick thought: You mentioned that it had been suggested to replace Latias with Starmie however i think Latias is too key to the core of this team & the original idea anyways. However, you do lack a spinner & entry hazards (especially T-Spikes) will quickly take their toll on your team seeing as 2 of them are already supposed to taking hits as part of your strategy (Rocky Helmet/Rough Skin etc.).
    So how about replacing Jellicent with Starmie?

    This is slightly unorthodox but with:
    Rapid Spin
    Recover
    Scald
    Psyshock.

    You retain similar resistances but also Starmie isn't crippled by status, but what the key with this set is rather than trying to spinblock with Jellicent; lure out & remove their spinners quickly & then setup your hazards. This often proves slightly easier than repeatedly trying to spinblock, especially over longer battles.
    With Scald, you can still continue to spread burns & when teamed with Psyshock you can easily take down the common spinners as Tentacruel often switch into Starmie expecting to sponge Tbolts (Starmie remains a problem, but your Jellicent was unable to effectively deal with Starmie anyway, so no loss there).
    This Starmie also still provides you with a reliable check to Keldeo as it bypasses CM as well.
    This Starmie only needs to be able to outspeed Gengar for an easy OHKO as anything beyond that is unnecessary with it's specific move set & purpose, allowing for a subtle boost in bulk for Starmie too, which with Recover, lefties, Nature Cure, chance of burn from Scald & nice set of resistances, is often underestimated & overlooked.

    Thoughts?
  19. animenagai

    animenagai
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,215
    Have you tried giving Virizion HP rock? Lure kills Volcarona, which is a big threat to your team. You'll be a bit weaker against the dragons, but you can still hit Nite/Mence. You have Latias to revenge kill Chomp. You'll also lose your Celebi lure, but you can probably just wear it down with spikes.

    Great team.

    edit: I also suggest trying lum berry on Virizion. That thing is a status-magnet -- scald burns, WOW, T-wave from ferro and rotom -- it helps.
  20. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    369
    Thanks for the rates you two :)

    I actually like all your suggestions a lot.
    Starmie > Jellicent is kinda cool, also regarding it's ability to revenge kill a lot of stuff and making me less weak to Skarmory of all kind. I always found that Jellicent was least usefull member but it's ability to spinblock was too good to give up, however, I think Starmie might fit better. I will try it out, thanks :)

    HP Rock sounds amazing to be honest. While it might make Landorus-I and -T a bigger threat the ability to bait and kill Volcarona really makes up for it. That's especially important if I go with Starmie > Jellicent. I will try HP Rock and also Stone Edge > Calm Mind as most of the time I don't need it. Thanks a lot :]
  21. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,864
    yo i just realized you can make this team really good with just a couple simple edits

    garchomp ---> hippowdon
    leftovers | careful
    248 hp | 8 def | 248 sdef
    stealth rock | earthquake | slack off | rock slide

    tyranitar ---> jirachi
    choice scarf | jolly
    156 hp | 140 atk | 56 sdef | 156 spd
    iron head | u-turn | ice punch | trick

    solves your issues with volc, zam, rachi, also covers dnite much better and lets you cripple other stall with trick, espec. a hazard layer cos lacking a spinner means that spike stackers can give you a hell of a time. you can run fire punch on rachi if you care that much about luke i guess but ice punch seems overall better to me.

    hope i helped
  22. Matt Tuck

    Matt Tuck

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    33
    Hi,

    Since you agreed to test HP Rock and Stone Edge on Virizion i thought you could go for a mixed Virizion with life orb for more damage output and still hit volc for super-effective damage since you said you don't need Calm Mind anywayz so:

    Virizion@Leftovers/Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 100 Atk / 156 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Close Combat
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stone Edge

    Great team. I really enjoy using it.
  23. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    369
    Thanks a lot you two =D

    I'm going to test both your suggestions soon, just one thing:
    I didn't meant to play HP Rock + Stone Edge Virizion but either HP Rock or Stone Edge. I finished testing both and if I stick with one of those, I'll play HP Rock (Stone Edge is way to unrealible and weak outside of hitting Volca), but I'm not sure yet.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)