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Common Leads

Discussion in 'Pokémetrics' started by X-Act, May 4, 2009.

  1. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    I decided to apply the OU algorithm to the Leads list, to find the "OU Leads" for the various ladders. And here they are:

    Standard Ladder:

    Code:
    Abomasnow
    Aerodactyl
    Azelf
    Bronzong
    Gyarados
    Heatran
    Hippowdon
    Infernape
    Jirachi
    Metagross
    Ninjask
    Smeargle
    Swampert
    Tyranitar
    Weavile
    Yanmega
    
    (16 Pokemon)
    Uber Ladder:

    Code:
    Darkrai
    Deoxys-A
    Deoxys-S
    Dialga
    Groudon
    Kyogre
    Mewtwo
    Ninjask
    Shaymin-S
    Tyranitar
    
    (10 Pokemon)
    UU Ladder:

    Code:
    Ambipom
    Arcanine
    Crobat
    Electrode
    Hippopotas
    Lopunny
    Nidoqueen
    Persian
    Roserade
    Smeargle
    Steelix
    Swellow
    Uxie
    Yanmega
    
    (14 Pokemon)
    Suspect Ladder:

    Code:
    Abomasnow
    Aerodactyl
    Azelf
    Bronzong
    Heatran
    Hippowdon
    Infernape
    Jirachi
    Mamoswine
    Metagross
    Roserade
    Rotom-H
    Skarmory
    Swampert
    Tyranitar
    
    (15 Pokemon)
  2. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    I actually haven't seen many Yanmegas, Weaviles, and Gyarados leads.

    Also, I would prefer that we see the numerical orders for the leads, so I can know who's 10/11/w/e.

    Other than that, this is nice.
  3. Veedrock

    Veedrock

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    You can see those numbers in the statistics thread.

    I'm confused on how to react to this. While I wanna say that's interesting, it doesn't seem right. Abomasnow is used on 1.97% of teams, far from what I'd consider overused or common. Perhaps it's just the centralization messing with the formula application? Whatever it is, I'm kind of strayed from finding value in the information. Thanks for doing it though, the work is always appreciated. Lead Skarmory on suspect is pretty amusing.
  4. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    Those are the leads seen in at least one out of every 20 teams on average. Maybe that's why it doesn't look right.
  5. yysame

    yysame

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    ya i thought that was weird, rly havnt seen that many abomasnows
  6. MagicMaster87

    MagicMaster87

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    How is Smeargle in the UU list? It was banned in March...
  7. RBG

    RBG It feels like a perfect night to dress up like hipsters
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    It was actually banned around April 13th.
  8. Matthew

    Matthew I love weather; Sun for days
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    Code:
    Darkrai
    Deoxys-A
    Deoxys-S
    I find it really odd that Deoxys-A is more of a common lead than Deoxys-S. I mean come on! Deoxys-S is everywhere and Deoxys-A is... well not as often.
  9. MagicMaster87

    MagicMaster87

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    Oh, could've sworn it was mid-March... >.<

    I doubt it was, these lists are alphabetized.
  10. Staraptor Call

    Staraptor Call

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    I've definitely seen more Uxie leads than Abomasnow or Weavile lately. I also use one, and it's working fairly well.
  11. Sir_Lu

    Sir_Lu

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    nvm


    The list looks pretty cool. I'd state that it was alphabetized, and not in order though.

    But every 20 battles seems. A lot.
  12. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    The lists are in alphabetical order, not usage order.
  13. shipship

    shipship

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    People still lead with NoobJask?

    lol
  14. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    Here are the Pokemon that have have a good probability of being leads in at least 1 out of every 4 teams (I consider this to be the definition for a leading Pokemon to be frequently-seen):

    Standard Ladder: None! (46474 usages are needed to qualify)

    Uber: Deoxys-S, Darkrai, Groudon, Kyogre (1336 usages are needed to qualify)

    UU: Ambipom (4776 usages are needed to qualify)

    Suspect: Azelf, Jirachi (300 usages are needed to qualify)
  15. Colloquy

    Colloquy

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    Deoxys-A plays differently as a lead than Deoxys-S. It can set up Stealth Rock like it, but also counter Kyogre, Tyranitar, Deoxys-S, and others. It's more offensive.

    Anyway, thanks X-Act for these statistics.
  16. Iris

    Iris

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    Thanks X-act for the statistics.

    Ambipom leads are going to go down i think with crobat by next month's statistics. Crobats faster, has better survivability, and beats ambipom one on one.
  17. Thorns

    Thorns

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    Thanks X-Act, this is a lot more accesible. I see you've fixed your sig too ^_^
  18. 1059860

    1059860

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    I'm quite surprised that Gengar leads, ones omnipresent, is gone. With Choice/Trick options, plus Destiny Bond/Sash options, it's not that bad.
  19. wildfire393

    wildfire393

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    Gengar as a whole is less useful these days due to the omnipresence of Scizor. Not to mention anything that's an Anti Azelf lead is an anti Gengar lead, as they have similar stats. Basically, Gengar is Azelf with a weaker Explosion, slower speed, and no taunt/rocks. It was good back when Hypnosis was reliable, but these days it's not so much.
  20. Diana

    Diana This isn't even my final form
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    Still, the thought of Weavile being used more than Gengar as a lead surprises me.. I know Azelf hates running up against one but I don't see the point.
  21. wildfire393

    wildfire393

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    Weavile can actually beat a surprising number of leads one-on-one with a combination of Taunt and Counter for slower stuff like Hippowdon, Bronzong, and Metagross and Fake Out + Night Slash for stuff like Azelf and Gengar. He's not fantastic, but he is one of the few Pokemon who can guarantee that Azelf doesn't get rocks down.
  22. blasphemy1

    blasphemy1

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    Not quite. Gengar has Focus Blast, which pairs with Shadow Ball for perfect coverage, and thus it will be running it on the majority of his sets. Meanwhile, Azelf fails to do anything to Heatran or Tyranitar without HP Ground/Fighting, neither of which will OHKO the latter. Focus Blast is unreliable, and nobody wants to get into a BP + Pursuit mindgame, so that is why he isn't used as often as Azelf, not because Ttar/Heatran wreck it.
  23. Gwabatim

    Gwabatim

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    Gengar can also use the countersash combo iirc
  24. CREAM_93

    CREAM_93

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    ive only seen one abomasnow ever, even though i personally find hail quite effective i use a hail team sometimes myself. i gotta say though wtf are people still using ninjask? and i think aero should be used more for how good he is, he's the fastest non scarf lead and out-taunts everything.
  25. bearsfan092

    bearsfan092

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    The answer is relatively simple as to why Ninjask still sees use. Quite a few players (especially newer players) see Ninjask as the easiest way of passing stat boosts to Pokemon. I mean, think about it. It's easy to get a +2 attack +3 speed (or similar) to something deadly like Tyranitar, Salamence, Gyarados, or anything else that can deal massive amounts of physical damage.

    The reason why I say newer players use Ninjask more is because, in paper, Ninjask seems decent. However, Ninjask telegraphs your moves to your opponents. Nearly every Jask is a passer (hyperbole fail). It takes almost zero effort to use Protect, Sub, Swords Dance, Baton Pass, pretty much in that order.

    This makes Ninjask extremely easy to counter. Even a +2 X-Scissor fails to pose an adequate threat to a defensive minded Pokemon. Its ability to be pseudo-hazed means that its passes are usually for naught. Even if Ninjask comes in on something other than a Pseudo-hazer, all one has to do is switch to the hazer and spam Roar/Whirlwind, blowing away the stat boosts the moment they're passed. In addition, Stealth Rocks take 50 percent from this bug, and factoring in subs, Ninjask usually gets only one chance to pass, and that one chance is easily denied.

    But again, some users fail to realize how easy it is to counter Ninjask. If you don't stop Ninjask, there's a chance you'll end up 6-0'd. It works both ways. The inexperienced user doesn't know what to do against Ninjask and gets swept. The inexperienced user of Ninjask thinks that Ninjask is a good lead, leading to its higher usage.

    And Aerodactyl gets screwed by Bullet Punch Metagross.

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